BS: UK Elections

Subject: BS: UK Elections
From: mandoleer
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 04:11 PM

As the New Labour is really Conservative, the Conservatives are going for the working class vote, and the Lib Dems never seem to have fixed policies, why don't we tell the lot of them we're not happy? Look at the list of candidates in your constituency, and vote for the outsider that stands no chance of getting in but will come closest (unless it's BNP or such). This will help to reduce the majority of the winner, and low majorities mean they listen harder. Of course, if there is a Raving Loony candidate in your area, vote for them! Only vote Con or Lab or Lib Dem if there is a vast majority to be reduced and that is the only way of doing it. Alternatively, Vote for Apathy and make the turnout rock bottom.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 06:30 PM

Apathy=special interest success=even worse.Use your vote!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Crane Driver
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 06:32 PM

I'm voting for a hung parliament and a coalition government - after 30 years of huge majorities one way or the other (first Maggie the Thug, the Tony B Liar), a coalition can't be any worse.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 06:35 PM

i voting the presevatives, becase tont blair is a big load of shit.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: mandoleer
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 07:06 PM

I hope Sir jOhn remembers that vote is spelled X..... OK, Catters, any better ideas on how to shock the politicians (apologies again for swearing)? [Must be even harder in the USA - or do they have more than two parties there? We in the UK only hear of the two (except for that Ross Perot attempt).] Are there any folkies in Parliament? Or are we too nice to go that route? (I except a certain Green candidate in a local election who was the only Green in the town NOT to canvass for votes, and who still polled more votes than any of the other Greens who had been very active... But he was drafted rather than volunteering.) The Brits brought the price of beef down some years ago. How can we defeat the p*********s?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 07:18 PM

In Hull the Tories came third last time, so voting for them is as good a way as any of helping Labour beat the Lib Dems, Sir jOhn...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: mandoleer
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 07:37 PM

Yes, but the trouble about using one of the mainstream parties is that they will take it as a swing to them even if they don't win. Mind you, if half the country swings one way and half the other it could be interesting... (Polite comments please!)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST,Sidewinder.
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 10:48 PM

That's the problem with politics in the 21st Century everybody telling everybody else what to do. It smacks of "the blind leading the blind" to me, so I just say follow your instincts and be happy with the outcome as you helped make it happen of your own volition.But if I decide to seek office please vote for me because I didn't tell you to and not because you have to.Now there's democracy at work.

Regards.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Boab
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 11:08 PM

The "first past the post" system of election as used in the U.K. [and in many other "democratic" nations] is just about as UN-democratic as you can get. It leads to parties being elected to powe with enormous seat majorities after having scored perhaps 40% of the electoral vote.
[ I believe every UK government since world war two have been elected on just such a percentage or less!] By no stretch of the imagination can this be called "democratic". It simply means that over 50% of the electorate in EVERY election are disenfranchised. Reform required.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 05:31 AM

I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again...

Anyone who thinks they can run the country and other peoples lives must be barking mad. Yet we vote for them time after time. Who is the daftest?

I'd go for the benign dictatorship with me at the helm if I were you.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 06:33 AM

We've had a Harpy, followed by a toad, so why not a gnome? You've got my vote Dave. Just lose the PELs willya?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 04:11 AM

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 04:13 AM

Why shouldn't people vote BNP? Check out the website, it makes alot of sense www.bnp.org.uk
I know loads of people that are voting for them.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Crystal
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 04:53 AM

"Why shouldn't people vote BNP?"

errrrr because they are evil little Hitler clones who would like to bring back aparthide and gas chambers for everyone not 100% white and 100% English. A policy which will lead to the last person alive having to kill himself because he had a french great (x whatever) grandmother.

Oh and their leader is even more offensave than Mr B.Liar. The only way that I will vote Labour is if the BNP were the only other choice!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Stu
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 04:55 AM

Why shouldn't people vote BNP?

Troll alert!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: sian, west wales
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 05:13 AM

It's about time that all our elections moved to a proportional representation system (PR). The National Assembly of Wales (and I believe the Scottish Assembly too?) uses one version of PR - possibly not the best but I think the representation is a WHOLE LOT fairer than first-past-the-post. I suspect that the Tories wouldn't have had a look-in on the old system (or perhaps just 1 or 2 seats) and they have about 6 now, if memory serves. Although I would NEVER be considered a Tory supporter, some of these AMs are genuinely good politicians and the Assembly government would be worse without them.

So roll on PR. But in the meantime, vote even if it's by spoiling your ballot. It wouldn't hurt to write to the Press in advance and encourage them to report more fully on the percentage of spoiled votes and the reasons behind them too ...

Re: how to spell 'X', I've been in on a number of counts - including the original National Assembly referendum - and I've been amazed at what people use as a marker! Xs, checks - OK. But there are a lot that use happy faces and even their signatures, and some parties argue that these make the votes invalid (obviously, the parties that aren't ahead on the deal) so if you want to be counted, don't be too cutsie.

I even remember one paper that had a happy face for the chosen candidate and sad faces for all the others. It got disallowed, although I understood the artistic goals of the voter ...

Well, I'm just glad I live in Wales and have 4 parties I can consider - plus the range of smaller ones of course. So far I've only had literature from Plaid Cymry and Labour. Labour has inundated me with stuff which I recycle by sending it back to the local constituency office - postage unpaid.

siân

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: mandoleer
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 08:22 PM

I'm dead against proportional representation as it only gives chances to the parties. How can an independent get elected under PR? And we need more independents - not little wannabes and wannabes who have made it to the top (bottom?) of the pile. How about another suggestion - Candidates must have resided (really resided) in the constituency they stand for for at least five years? (Could be interesting if they applied it to football as well.....)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Cats
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 11:06 AM

My Grandmother was a Suffragette and was imprisoned and went on hunger strike so working class men and all women could vote. Don't not vote. If you cannot find anyone to vote for, either vote tactically or, do what I'm likely to do this time, write None Of The Above on your paper. At least then we are not betraying what those amazing women did for us.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Boab
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 03:04 AM

Fair enough, Cats---but they gave us Maggie Thatcher!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Crystal
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 04:22 AM

I've been disenfranchised! I'm so angry, however it means I can wind up candidates by taking up lots of their time, then telling them I can't vote.
Every cloud has a silver lining!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Piers
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 05:20 AM

Crystal, how come you can't vote?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Crystal
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 05:55 AM

My ******* ex flatmate threw my card in the bin along with her own. I emailed the council, a few months later when I found out saying this had happened and would they send me another one. Bugger all has happened since and the close of registration was 10th of March I can't vote!
I'm guessing they don't want any students to vote in case the Lib Dems get in here!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Cats at Work
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 06:23 AM

You could always try voting Mebyon Kernow!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST,Tory Boy
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 07:15 AM

Polease don't worry about the BNP.
My doorstepping pals assure me that Tory defectors to BNP last time are coming back to Conservatives this time, due to our sensible policies on immigation, asylum and travellers.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST,Tory Boy
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 07:17 AM

Oops, misspelt Please.

sincere apologies

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Piers
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 08:19 AM

That's unfortunate Crystal, at least you can still wind up the candidates.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: jacqui.c
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 08:41 AM

Crystal - so long as you are on the register of voters you should be able to go along to your local polling booth and they can find you by name and address. At least, that is what I did when I forgot to take my card with me.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Crystal
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 10:04 AM

The problem is that I'm a student and therefore don't pay council tax, also I only moved here 6 months ago and I'm in rented accomadation so I'm guessing that they only know about me in the most nebulous way. But I'll wind up the candidates anyway, it's always amusing!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: EagleWing
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 12:21 PM

"My doorstepping pals assure me that Tory defectors to BNP last time are coming back to Conservatives this time, due to our sensible policies on immigation, asylum and travellers. "

You mean we don't have to vote for the racists because the Tories have adopted racist policies.

Great!

Frank L.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 12:32 PM

No, the tories are just more in the open about their racist policies. They obviously don't see the need to disguise them anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 01:49 PM

Mightn't you still be on the electoral regsiter in the place yoy moved from, Crystal? In which case you could vote there, if need be by post?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Cllr
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 07:32 AM

controlled immigration is not racism,
and it is usually disenchented workinng class who swith to BNP from labour.
It is a myth put about by the hard left ( in this case posing as a conservative)that it is just tories moving further to right. Cllr

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: redhorse
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 10:43 AM

"controlled immigration" is not necessarily racism.
But in the case of Michael Howard's lot it is

nick

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 04:48 PM

"Are you thinking what we're thinking..."

As Tony Blair said to Michael Howard, he isn't a racist, he's an opportunist (and Tony should know all about that). What's happening is an attempt to appeal to the racism which is being directly stoked up by the nastier papers.

Why else would a keen young would-be MP feel it necessary to doctor a photograph of himself taking part in a demonstration in support of a family of refugees facing deportation, so as to suggest he was demonstrating against immigration? He didn't want to be off-message, and the message is "nudge-nudge, send 'em back". (As articulated by rather too explicitly on-message Tory MP Bob Spink on the other end of Essex from where I live, who opuyt an advert in his local paper saying "What bit of 'send them back' don't you understand Mr Blair?")

Yes, there are some decent Tories around, and Cllr is one ofvthem I rather think - but they are being shafted, the same way decent Socialists have been shafted by the man Howard wants to replace.

Except that the kind of attitudes Howard is flirting with are even nastier than anything Blair got into bed with.

No, racism isn't particularly right-wing - it's a Weapon of Moral Destrucution that can be, and has been, invoked by unscrupulous politicians right across the left-right spectrum. Right now, the people doing it are the Tory Party on the right and the BNP a bit further towards the left.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 04:49 PM

"Are you thinking what we're thinking..."

As Tony Blair said to Michael Howard, he isn't a racist, he's an opportunist (and Tony should know all about that). What's happening is an attempt to appeal to the racism which is being directly stoked up by the nastier papers.

Why else would a keen young would-be MP feel it necessary to doctor a photograph of himself taking part in a demonstration in support of a family of refugees facing deportation, so as to suggest he was demonstrating against immigration? He didn't want to be off-message, and the message is "nudge-nudge, send 'em back". (As articulated by rather too explicitly on-message Tory MP Bob Spink on the other end of Essex from where I live, who put an advert in his local paper saying "What bit of 'send them back' don't you understand Mr Blair?")

Yes, there are some decent Tories around, and Cllr is one of them I rather think - but they are being shafted, the same way decent Socialists have been shafted by the man Howard wants to replace.

Except that the kind of attitudes Howard is flirting with are even nastier than anything Blair got into bed with.

No, racism isn't exclusively or even particularly right-wing - it's a Weapon of Moral Destrucution that can be, and has been, invoked by unscrupulous politicians right across the left-right spectrum. Right now, the people doing it are the Tory Party on the right and the BNP a bit further towards the left.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Crystal
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 10:58 AM

"Mightn't you still be on the electoral regsiter in the place yoy moved from, Crystal? In which case you could vote there, if need be by post?"

Almost certainly, unfortunatly I was registered to vote in one town but my family has moved since. It's all very complex. I might check out my status where I used to live.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 11:02 AM

McGrath...You forget that Blair got into bed with George Bush, and lied to the public about what was going on under the covers.

Maybe thats where he learned to shaft the socialists.

Isnt it about time we stopped nit-picking, we have the strenghth to throw out all these clowns and start on the road to real freedom.

Nobody trusts any of them.
The young would no longer give their lives for the rich old men.
Our society stinks of drug abuse, electoral corruption, modern day slavery,(dead end jobs call centres ect)
Environmental pollution,(mass housing development, big profits for the developers and kickbacks for the councillors and planners)

Dont vote....start fighting back...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 11:49 AM

Deeply unpleasant as I find George Bush, on the scale of unsavouriness, I think the political tradition Howard is snuggling up to currently beats even that.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Cats
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 12:20 PM

BNP ... left wing! never. The most left wing party we have down here are the Old Liberals. They haven't moved on their stance and now they are further to the left than any other party.

Good Luck, Cllr.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Piers
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 12:42 PM

Cats, surely you mean the most left wing party you have that your newspaper tells you about.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: dianavan
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 09:03 PM

I don't have a very good handle on British politics but it looks like the people of Britain, the U.S. and Australia are all in the same boat. I hope when it goes down, it doesn't take Canada with it but...sorry to say, our Liberals are not liberal at all and have been caught lying about our tax dollars.

When democracy is corrupted you have to wonder - whats next?

Teach your children to swim!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Cllr
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 03:28 AM

I never said the BNP were left wing. I said that where the BNP have been succesful the electoral support is from a traditionally leftwing voting working class voter who feels disenfranchised by the labour party and votes BNP or that ilk. Cllr

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: fiddler
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 03:46 AM

"Are you thinking what we'reI'm thinking"

Apart form all the scorrolous (can't spell that one) suggestions made on these posters ('how would you feel if a bloke on early release attacked your daughter' what about teh burglars - car theives - other perfectly respectable criminals rather than the perverts - there are many many more of the former fortunately very few of the latter)

Anyway round by us there has been a very good poster doctor - got the right typeface and size - "Are you smoking what we'er smoking"

BRILLIANT - at last some humour creeps in.

All we need now is true politics Not lies, dam lies, statistics and politicians!

Andy

NTW any one actually know the percentage of UK population that are immigrant - forget non whites or whites for the minute - look it up I'm not gonna tell you but it is ever so small - should not be an election issue to start with but this makes more of a nonesense of the whole immigration campaign!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: fiddler
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 03:46 AM

sorry BTW at the end!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Cllr
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 08:28 AM

45,000 immigrants a year may "statistically" be very amall but it could still populate a town the size of Peterborough.
Cllr
BTW anyone else see the irony in someone who says there are lies damned lies and statistics and then goes on to quote percentages (without saying what it is) to to prove a point?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 03:48 PM

But fiddler very specifically and intentionally did not quote the statistic. The thing about statistics is they come across as much more accurate and impressive than they are entitled to, because the figures loook precise (even when the actual thing supposedly being measured is a lot less precise).   

Saying "ever so small" is actually more meaningful than saying some decimal point precise figure such as 0.03% or whatever.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: fiddler
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 04:47 PM

Even allowing for Cllrs note - how many towns of that size or larger are there? Again a small amount is immigration - but sorry to be racisit I support only the human race - A Brother to all and a friend to everyone no matter what colour class or creed the other may belong!

Sorry can't go with any other route!

Notice Cllr didn't mention the honest burglars etc. on early release!

Forgot that one then!

Sorry feeling wicked!!!

*GRIN*

Andy

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: DougR
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 08:21 PM

Crystal: what do you mean when you say you don't pay a "council tax?" Do you have to pay some sort of tax in order to vote in Great Britian?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST,Melvin Contreras
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 08:27 PM

Voting is a Civil Right, DougR.

Not like in the States

MC

Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Crystal
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 08:54 AM

Students don't pay council tax as we don't usually own our own homes and are normally classed as residing with our parents anyway. We don't pay tax on our main income as it is a loan, we are allowed up to £4000 (possibly more) tax free parental gifts and we can earn £4000 per year before tax and national insurance contributions are asked of us. However students are not eligable for state support.
My yearly income of about £3000 creeps under the tax barrier, although when I get a part time job I'm likely to be charged as high a rate of tax as the ******* inland revenue can get away with, even though, in theory, I'm not earning enough!

Any party which taxes sensibly gets my vote (so Monster Raving Loony it is!)