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Subject: Atheist Hymms From: carigeen@eircom.net Date: 02 Nov 99 - 08:11 AM Hi all, I was at a nephew's wedding in New York some time ago. The couple had, very bravely, declared themselves atheists and insisted on a totally non-religious ceremony. The ceremony seemed to lack something in the musical line though. I tried to come up with some non-theist hymns but memory failed me and all I could recall was the 'Internationale'! As it was a distinctly yuppie occasion that one was better avoided! Has anyone any brilliant ideas for the next time? / Carigeen |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymms From: alison Date: 02 Nov 99 - 08:15 AM The music doesn't have to be atheist...... there are plenty of good love songs out there that can be used that have no religious connoctations.... search the forum for "Irish wedding", "Celtic wedding" type stuff... we've had threads on both... lots of great suggestions... slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymms From: alison Date: 02 Nov 99 - 08:26 AM a filter search for wedding (set date to 1 year).. gets a heap of threads... heres a few to get you started... Folksongs appropriate for a wedding slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymms From: RWilhelm Date: 02 Nov 99 - 09:20 AM I once wrote an atheist spiritual called "I'm Goin' to a Hole in the Ground." I don't think it would work for a wedding. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymms From: Chet Date: 02 Nov 99 - 11:02 AM I'd love to hear "I'm goin' to a hole in the ground". Please post. Chet |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymms From: Liz the Squeak Date: 02 Nov 99 - 11:40 AM Have a look again at some of those supposedly Christian hymns.... they ain't so Christian as you'd think! Take the Holly and the Ivy, definately a song about tree worship, take out Jesus and insert a different name, you have a hymn to the Goddess. Same with most of the Catholic hymns to Mary, change the name(and that isn't always necessary) you have a hymn to the Goddess. Christians have always been good at taking stuff from other religions and filing the serial numbers off. If you don't like that sort of thing, then there is a hymn in Songs of Praise (anyone brought up in a Church of England school will be familiar with that one) called 'When a knight won his spurs', it mentions knights, dragons, truth, strength,charger (big war horses), giants, ogres, darkness, castles and adventure. Not a great deal there about any god, only truth, and surely that is all that matters? If you believe that what you believe is the truth, then there is no need for anything else. And yes, I'm Christian!! (although my priest calls me the token Pagan and my Pagan friends call me the token Christian.....) |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymms From: KathWestra Date: 02 Nov 99 - 01:37 PM There are some very hymnlike songs that don't mention God, Jesus, or any other particular deity. One that comes immediately to mind is "How Can I Keep From Singing", which feels very spiritual to me and offers the great hymn-singing satisfaction of singing with others in lush harmony. I'm sure it's on the DT. Kath |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymms From: Tom on Comfort Date: 02 Nov 99 - 10:26 PM Kath, "How Can I Keep from Singing" is a great choice. I'd also suggest Si Kahn's "What Will I Leave Behind?" or Utah Phillip's "Hymn" Or "What a Wonderful World" by George Weiss & Bob Thiele, popularized by Louis Armstrong. I bet we come up with a bunch more, too. (Maybe they're not in-yer-face athiestic, just universal & don't bother with mentioning deities, thankyouverymuch... Cheers, Tom |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymms From: margaret Date: 03 Nov 99 - 07:11 PM i guess it's more of an agnostic hymn, but iris dement's "let the mystery be" is a great song that proclaims belief in love and living life accordingly, despite not knowing where we'll all end up in the final analysis. i never thought about it for a wedding, but i sure have thought it'd make a great, happy song at a funeral. another great one for a funeral that i'd consider a philosophical rather than theological hymn is gillian welch's "i'm not afraid to die," very serene and beautiful. probably not appropriate for a wedding, though! margaret |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymms From: GUEST,Here's an atheist parody hymn Date: 31 Mar 10 - 06:22 PM Sung to the tune of "I'll fly away" a Christian hymn. When I die and my life is over I'll rot away. 6 feet down underneath the clover I'll rot away. I'll rot away how gory,I'll rot away. When I die I won't go in the sky I'll just rot away! |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymms From: Young Buchan Date: 31 Mar 10 - 06:35 PM Have a look at http://www.workingclasslit.com/?q=socialist_hymns/book (sorry, I'm a Blueclicky-atheist!) It is a page by page scan of the ILP's Labour and Socialist Hymns. A few of them do mention God, but most don't. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymms From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 31 Mar 10 - 07:28 PM I can't quite see how supposedly pagan hymns could be particularly relevant to atheist celebrations. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: GUEST,Ray Date: 01 Apr 10 - 05:07 AM Not so much the hymns themselves but the music. Ralph Vaughan Williams, who wrote numerous hymn tunes was a self professed atheist. Personally, I don't like the term "atheist". I don't play the banjo but banjo players don't have a specific term for me! |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Young Buchan Date: 01 Apr 10 - 05:25 AM The correct term for someone who can play the banjo but doesn't is Great Hero and World Benefactor. As to what constitutes atheism I recall that Dylan Thomas once said of his father that it wasn't so much that he was an atheist as that he didn't like God - when the weather was bad he would shake his fist at the sky and shout 'It's raining again, damn him!" |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: theleveller Date: 01 Apr 10 - 06:04 AM 'When a knight won his spurs' When Martin Simpson did his superb version live he used introduce it by saying that he had taken any reference to god out of it because he didn't want to sing about anyone who talked on equal terms with George Bush. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Carol Date: 01 Apr 10 - 06:23 AM How about Hard Times by Stephen Foster, only kidding. How can I keep from singing must be 'top of the list', then Blessed Quietness, and Where are we bound by Sy Khan or even Amazing Graced at a push, after all it's all about a lady. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: The Borchester Echo Date: 01 Apr 10 - 06:35 AM Chris Wood: "Come Down Jehovah" |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: IanC Date: 01 Apr 10 - 06:46 AM Glad That I Live Am I is totallly non-theist. In "Songs Of Praise". :-) |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Carol Date: 01 Apr 10 - 06:46 AM That was good, perhaps not for a wedding more like for a funeral, anyhow I'm going to learn it. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Valmai Goodyear Date: 01 Apr 10 - 06:49 AM Coope Boyes & Simpson's 'Unison in Harmony'and 'Bringing in the Sheaves'. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: greg stephens Date: 01 Apr 10 - 06:53 AM "How Can I kep from Singing" always turns up in these sort of lists as a great non-God spiritual type of song. It should be remembered that was not the intention of its original creator, it was written as a very Christian hymn. Someone very cleverly filletd out the bones of Godliness, and left it very atheist, back in the 60's I think. It was done very well, most of these sort of rewrites are like modern language versions of the bible...rubbish, for the most part. But this has actually improved the song and made it very succesfully universal. That's what I think, anyway. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: autoharpbob Date: 01 Apr 10 - 07:36 AM Not Atheist, but I like "Zen Gospel Singing" written by Mark Graham, as sung by Bryan Bowers on "By Heart" "And now I'm a Buddhist, chant my mantra's each day But I miss the hymn singing in the good Gospel way" ...... its Zen Gospel singing - just Om, Om sweet Om." |
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Subject: ADD: When Wilt Thou Save the People (Elliott) From: Young Buchan Date: 01 Apr 10 - 07:49 AM There's a hymn by Ebenezer Elliott which even as an atheist I rather like since though it mentions God its main line seems to be giving him a good telling off. WHEN WILT THOU SAVE THE PEOPLE (Ebenezer Elliott) When wilt thou save the people O God of mercy when? The people, Lord, the people Not thrones and crowns but men? God save the people - thine are they, Let them not pass like weeds away: Their heritage, a sunless day. God save the people Shall crime bring crime forever Strength aiding still the strong? Is it thy will, o Father, That men shall toil for wrong? 'No' say the mountains, 'no' the skies; Men's clouded sun shall brightly rise And songs be heard instead of sighs. God save the people. Words: Ebenezer Elliott, 1850 Music: Kendal Meter: 76 76 88 85 |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: mikesamwild Date: 01 Apr 10 - 08:00 AM As a kid in Manchester in the 40s we went to a Socialist Sunday school and sang songs that were anthemic like England Arise by the writer and activist Edward Carpenter who lived near Sheffield . A green , gay, socialist, feminist before his time. It was one of the tunes at my Dad's and Mum's funerals |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Bryn Pugh Date: 01 Apr 10 - 08:09 AM If you were to look, you'll find this in any christian hymn book, but I have always thought of it a a paean (sp. ?) of praise to the All Father. There ain't a single reference to jesus, god, or any other bugger. I intend to have this sung, once I have croaked, at the cremmy : Be thou my vision, thou, lord of my heart : Let nowt be all else to me, save that thou art. Thou, my best thought in the day or the night - In waking or sleeping, my treasure thou art. The "middle verses" you can keep for me : High King of Heaven, with victory won - Let me reach heaven's gate, heaven's bright sun. Heart of my own heart whatever befall - Still be thou my vision, thou, ruler of all. So mote it be. |
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Subject: ADD: England Arise (Edward Carpenter) From: mikesamwild Date: 01 Apr 10 - 08:36 AM ENGLAND ARISE Edward Carpenter (1844 - 1929) 1. England, arise! The long, long night is over, Faint in the East behold the dawn appear, Out of your evil dream of toil and sorrow – Arise, O England, for the day is here! From your fields and hills, Hark! The answer swells – Arise, O England, for the day is here! 2. People of England! All your valleys call you, High in the rising sun the lark sings clear, Will you dream on, let shameful slumber thrall you? Will you disown your native land so dear? Shall it die unheard – That sweet pleading word? Arise, O England, for the day is here! 3. Over your face a web of lies is woven, Laws that are falsehoods pin you to the ground, Labor is mocked, its just reward is stolen, On its bent back sits Idleness encrowned. How long, while you sleep, Your harvest shall it reap? Arise, O England, for the day is here! 4. Forth, then, ye heroes, patriots and lovers! Comrades of danger, poverty and scorn! Mighty in faith of Freedom, thy great Mother! Giants refreshed in Joy's new rising morn! Come and swell the song, Silent now so long; England is risen, and the day is here! |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: john f weldon Date: 01 Apr 10 - 09:12 AM After a bout with pneumonia, I felt the need to write a gospel song. Tough, since I have no beliefs. This is what I came up with. old rugged hammer |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Acorn4 Date: 01 Apr 10 - 02:41 PM "Jerusalem" might do as William Blake, who wrote the words, was verging on atheism. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: frogprince Date: 01 Apr 10 - 07:54 PM I've never heard David Tamalevich (sp?) say whether this was actually intended as atheistic, but I would say it can be taken that way. On the other hand, while it's certainly anti-fundamentalist, I don't find it really anti-Christian. Ours is a simple faith Life is a short embrace Heaven is in this place Every day Hope is the ground we till Make each day what you will Thankful for dreams fulfilled Every day No room in this heart for fear No judgement day drawing near Trust that inner voice you hear Every day Life's not a goal or race Its about heart and faith And living a life of grace Every day Ours is a simple faith Life is a short embrace Heaven is in this place Every day Hope is the ground we till Make each day what you will Thankful for dreams fulfilled Every day Trust is an open hand Making an honest stand Rooted here in the land Every day Living the mystery Seeking the harmony Here between you and me Every day Ours is a simple faith Life is a short embrace Heaven is in this place Every day Hope is the ground we till Make each day what you will Thankful for dreams fulfilled Every day ----------- |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Joe_F Date: 01 Apr 10 - 10:07 PM No JP has signed a certificate. No one said blessings or broke a glass. You clothes are the same as on the day we met, And there is no rice on the grass. Don't stare at your plate when the food is all gone -- Put it up to wash with the rest. Our love will go on, or it won't go on, If not in the east, the west. -- Bertolt Brecht, freely translated by me. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Wesley S Date: 01 Apr 10 - 10:55 PM Susan Werner has a great recording called "The Gospel Truth". It's gospel for agnostics. Here's a review that will tell you more. Susan Werner review |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: iancarterb Date: 02 Apr 10 - 12:35 AM An acquaintance from Suquamish, WA, a comedian and songwriter named Mike Neun, wrote a splendid agnostic hymn which I NEVER wrote down, and I foolishly gave the CD to a cousin. The chorus is, of course: I don't know, I don't know, To tell you the truth, I don't know. so probably not an ideal wedding song:) I haven't seen Mike for a few years, but I'll hunt and try to recover this very funny song. Carter |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Amergin Date: 03 Apr 10 - 05:12 PM We Don't go To God's House Anymore |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Stringsinger Date: 03 Apr 10 - 06:30 PM I have to keep reminding people that Atheism is NOT a religion. Hence, any love song works or any song about Peace or human values. There can't be an atheist hymn because it's oxymoronic. (Please look it up). Any reference to "heaven" has to be taken in a religious context. The same is true for any mention of god. Keep it secular and happy! |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Amergin Date: 03 Apr 10 - 06:59 PM It may not be a religion...however certain people have taken it to that extreme, and turned atheism into an organised religion....you do realise there are churches where atheists go and congregate, right? |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: GUEST,Chris P Date: 04 Apr 10 - 10:11 AM Well that's a new one on me, Amergin. Sounds like a rumour. Of course, in the Middle Ages, people who didn't partake of the dominant religion, or any, were also supposed to get up to their own strange rites, dancing naked in circles in the woods and being pagan and sacrificing babies and stuff. Where is it nowadays and what do we worship when there? |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Amergin Date: 04 Apr 10 - 11:28 AM Well you should check out this magical tool called a search engine. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: john f weldon Date: 04 Apr 10 - 01:08 PM Maybe he means those godless Unitarians. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: GUEST,Chris P Date: 04 Apr 10 - 04:20 PM "Well you should check out this magical tool called a search engine." Wow! I have seen and I believe! I've never heard of that over this side of the water, it seems such an unlikely concept. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Chris Partington Date: 04 Apr 10 - 05:12 PM Actually I take that back, having looked a little closer at what Google really threw up. There seem to be only three separate organisations that are referenced when Googling for "atheist church", out of 3,250,000 hits for atheist + church, i.e. The First Church of Atheism, The Church of Atheism, and The First Atheist Church of True Science, none of which appears to have any solidity beyond an old website and a plea for other people to join them, which hasn't happened, because it's a stupid idea. Then there are all the other 3,249,997 hits containing the words "atheist" and "church", which consist of the religious complaining about atheists. And commentators and journalists remarking on how absurd atheists are, having churches and all. Which they don't. Even in California. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Joe Offer Date: 04 Apr 10 - 07:19 PM I've always thought of the Washington Ethical Society as the atheist equivalent of a church. They deal with ethics and ideals and social activism from a non-theistic point of view - and they often have plaid host for musical gatherings of the Folklore Society of Greater Washington (FSGW). -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Joe_F Date: 04 Apr 10 - 09:06 PM jfw: Unitarians are not necessarily godless. According to Prof. Whitehead, their creed is that there is *at most* one god. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Art Thieme Date: 04 Apr 10 - 09:31 PM There is a song I sang and recorded. Some say it is religious, but to me it is only about inclusiveness. The Master Of The Sheepfold It's in the DT and some threads have discussed it. Chorus is) Oh, the master guards the sheepfold bin And he wants to know is my sheep brung in And he's calling, calling, Calling softly----softly calling For them all to come gathering in. The shepherd in the song has room for all. It is a practical statement of the absolute desirability of including all in the group--no matter what the differences are. In my life I must constantly deal with so many religious folks who are very certain of their RULES and dogmas---to the extent that they do real harm (I think) to those they shun because of their differences from the big group. At 68, I'd rather look for ways to make it work out--and learn from others. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 04 Apr 10 - 09:34 PM Seems to me people lose track of what is meant by "hymns", "carols", and "a spiritual". Hymns are, by definition, religious songs of praise to some entity, in our culture a god. If it's an atheist occasion, a hymn would be entirely out of place, don't you think? A carol is a folk or folk-type song (not amounting to a hymn), associated with a particular holiday. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Joe Offer Date: 05 Apr 10 - 02:09 AM As a Catholic Christian, I see Jesus Christ as the incarnation of all that is good - peace, generosity, compassion, and hope. Many people don't believe in Jesus Christ or in a God, but if they also believe in peace, generosity, compassion, and hope - aren't we in some ways brothers and sisters in faith? Does that make sense, a God who is the embodiment of goodness, instead of a God of doctrine and law? And if we don't choose to see goodness as God, can't we share something with those who share our ideals but not necessarily our beliefs? I think that Lift Every Voice and Sing embodies many of our shared ideals - but it gets theistic in the third verse. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Stringsinger Date: 05 Apr 10 - 12:39 PM There are no churches where atheists go to congregate. Not true! There are more and more meetup groups for atheists to discuss their world views. You can't make a religion out of atheism no matter how hard you try. It won't work. That's Orwellian. I think the theistic part of "Lift Every Voice" weakens its message but that's my opinion. What we can share is the fact that you don't have to believe in a god to be good person with ethical and moral standards. I don't see any god that has been presented as an embodiment of goodness, certainly not from the bible. That said, I think it's possible for Freethinkers to work with religious people on advancing social issues. I don't think it requires faith to work for peace and justice but that these are ideals worth achieving. It is not valid to think of atheists or freethinkers to be "brothers in faith". But we can work together to achieve a better world. Frank |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego Date: 05 Apr 10 - 12:44 PM It would seem to be as difficult to find representative music for pantheism, atheism's polar opposite. I surely haven't encountered any. It is probably time for a composer to step forward. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 05 Apr 10 - 12:54 PM ...There ain't a single reference to jesus.. There is, and you quote it, Bryn: "High King of Heaven, with victory won |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Joe_F Date: 05 Apr 10 - 05:53 PM Buddhism and Confucianism usually count as religions, but have no gods. If I were a Supreme Court justice (God forbid), I would opine that the various schools of psychiatry are religions within the meaning of the First Amendment, and that the government has no right to persecute or establish any of them. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: mikesamwild Date: 07 Apr 10 - 06:37 AM Is Lord of the Dance religious. I mean the song not Michael Flatley's thing. Didn't Lord Shiva dance ? The tune is Simple Gifts I think from the Shakers, but I don't know what Sydney carter believed , wan't he a Marxist? |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: GUEST,seth in Olympia Date: 07 Apr 10 - 08:22 AM I grew up on Cleveland locally produced gospel on the radio.Even though my family was white and catholic, the RC stuff didn't come close to Clara Ward and Marion Williams. Later(much later) I joined a Unitarian Church, but part of what I wanted from a church experience was some music that moved me and the U.U.'s have the right string but the wrong yo-yo in that area. Sometimes I go to black churches for the music. I've decided that I'm a believer until the song is over and then I'm an atheist... |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Stringsinger Date: 07 Apr 10 - 03:45 PM Psychiatry as a religion? I don't think so. The view of it being a recent science is valid but a religion would require articles of faith which is not represented in psychiatric scientific circles. That argument would assume that Evolution was a religion and not a scientific fact. Buddhism and Confucianism are religions, no gods notwithstanding. They are a systemized view of philosophy that is not scientifically based. They are systems of "faith". Psychiatry or psychology is not predicated on a systemic faith. They are "established" in the scientific community and the government today would be advised to adhere to mental health that is prescribed by this new science. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Paul Burke Date: 07 Apr 10 - 04:13 PM Buddhism is philosophy, if that's how you take it. It's religion of the most bell ringing, incense burning, heretic killing type too, if that's how you take it. Most Western Buddhists are of the former type, but it seems that in its homeland, Thailand, Sri Lanka, Burma, the latter type predominates overwhelmingly. I wrote an atheist Christmas carol a few years ago; it wasn't very good. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Stringsinger Date: 07 Apr 10 - 05:54 PM Paul, I like it! The King as Warlord says it all. It's not OTT for me. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Desert Dancer Date: 08 Sep 10 - 02:00 PM It's clear that Steve Martin did not do his Mudcat research, as he should have: Steve Martin, at Merlefest 2010 ~ Becky in Tucson Album version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VptspP8auFM |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: dick greenhaus Date: 08 Sep 10 - 02:32 PM Joe- It used to be said that Ethical Culture was a church for Jewish atheists; Unitarianism was one for Christian atheists. There's always "Confusing Grace, so rich, so rare Each Day we live, we learn. And daily offer up our prayer To Whom it May Concern." |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Bill D Date: 08 Sep 10 - 07:58 PM There used to be a tongue-in-cheek list of "Unitarian hymns", such as "We Would Rather Not Be Moved" (from Utah Phillips, I think) |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Kent Davis Date: 09 Sep 10 - 10:19 PM Amazing Chance Amazing chance, how sweet the sound, That evolved a being like me! I know you're lost, Though you think you're found. You're blind, but I can see! 'Twas chance that taught your heart to fear, But chance my fears relieved. How precious did that chance appear, The hour I disbelieved. Kent, who is puzzled to find himself contributing to the atheist hymnal |
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Subject: ADD: Atheists Don't Have No Songs From: Joe Offer Date: 10 Sep 10 - 12:00 AM That Steve Martin song is a kick, Becky. Lyrics (and another video) are available at a Website called Inner Light, Radiant Life. ATHEISTS DON'T HAVE NO SONGS (as performed by Steve Martin - songwriter known) Christians have their hymns in pages. Hava Nagila's for the Jews. Baptists have the Rock of Ages. Atheists just sing the Blues. Romantics play Claire de Lune. Born-agains sing He is Risen. But no one ever wrote a tune for godless Existentialism. For Atheists there's no Good News; They'll never sing a song of Faith. In their songs they have a rule: the "he" is always lower case. Some folks sing a Bach cantata. Lutherans get Christmas trees. Atheist songs add up to nada. But they do have Sundays free. Pentecostals sing, sing to heaven. Coptics have the book of scrolls. Numerologists count to seven. Atheists have rock and roll. For Atheists there's no Good News; They'll never sing a song of Faith. In their songs they have a rule: the "he" is always lower case. Atheists don't have no songs. Christians have their hymns in pages. Hava Nagila's for the Jews. Baptists have the Rock of Ages. Atheists just sing the Blues. Catholics dress up for mass and listen to Gregorian chants. Atheists just take a pass, watch football in their underpants. Atheists don't have no songs. I dunno about your theory, Dick. I know a lot of Jewish Unitarians - lots of Catholic ones, too. I suppose you're right that the mix is higher on Jews in the ethical societies. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: GUEST,sesquipedalian101 Date: 19 Oct 10 - 02:33 PM How about "Oh, What a Beautiful Morning" (for, obviously, a pre-noon wedding)? |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Dan Schatz Date: 19 Oct 10 - 02:42 PM My new CD and book, The Song and the Sigh, contains 17 songs of hope, meaning and community - songs that I consider "spiritual" - and never mentions the word God. Same with the reflections in the hardcover book that comes with it. I have long held that the question of a deity's existence is secondary to the questions of how we live as human beings. Some of the songs, like "Daylight Song," really do fit the hymn genre. Dan |
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Subject: The Atheist's Hymnal From: michaelr Date: 29 Dec 10 - 06:50 PM Steve Martin and band |
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Subject: RE: The Atheist's Hymnal From: Desert Dancer Date: 29 Dec 10 - 08:29 PM previously posted here a couple of times... Atheist Hymns, and here. Still funny, though. ~ Becky in Long Beach |
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Subject: RE: The Atheist's Hymnal From: michaelr Date: 29 Dec 10 - 10:32 PM Sorry - new to me. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Desert Dancer Date: 10 Apr 11 - 12:21 PM Another Godless 'hymns' or Atheism Church Music? thread, chronologically sandwiched by this one. ~ Becky in Long Beach |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Stringsinger Date: 10 Apr 11 - 12:35 PM Atheist hymns are oxymoronic. There are many love songs that express honest passion and commitment that can be used in lieu of religious platitudinous hymns. I think that hymns can be taken as musical expressions in and of themselves without having to refer to deities, rituals, and all the religious trappings that go with them. Many of them are beautiful and my preference is for the African-American ones. I think that the notion of interjecting religious aspects into a wedding service is really a red-herring and are really irrelevant to the ceremony. If a hymn fits, why not use it for its appropriateness to the vows of the couple being married? If not, who needs it. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Stringsinger Date: 10 Apr 11 - 01:03 PM I see that there are these two threads can be condensed into one. I was confused by the two so responded to each individually and as a result may have repeated myself. I apologize. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Joe_F Date: 10 Apr 11 - 05:40 PM I suppose Christians at War counts more as blasphemous than atheistic. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray Date: 10 Apr 11 - 05:54 PM My Atheism doesn't preclude a fascination with religion, hymns included, likewise other sacred music, which I love to sing & listen to. In Catholic Mass at Easter I can't sing many of the hymns for crying though. It's all human in the end! |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Vic Smith Date: 11 Apr 11 - 03:39 AM Dolly Collins and Maureen Duffy wrote a humanist mass called Missa Humana over twenty years ago now. I had the honour of making a digital transcription of Dolly's lovely carefully written music. In my opinion, it is a major work of music with strong influences from the tradition. I consider it a disgrace that it has never been performed. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Stringsinger Date: 11 Apr 11 - 11:25 AM I think there is a difference between a song say "This Little Light of Mine" and "Onward Christian Soldiers". Also, indisputably, Bach's B Minor Mass is one of the great musical works of all time. The notion of an atheist hymn makes no sense, however, but the point of view of atheism can be reflected in a choice of songs religious and secular. I think it's possible to rewrite some of the old hymns to make them secular. In a sense, that's what happened in the Civil Rights Movement. "Woke up this morning with my mind on Jesus" became "Woke up this morning with my mind on freedom". |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Artful Codger Date: 11 Apr 11 - 08:32 PM There tends to be a particular "sound" to hymns, so it makes great sense to talk of hymns in the sense of musical genre, apart from any theistic orientation. Sure, there's musical cross-over with non-theistic songs (from which hymn writers lifted heavily), but in contrast to hymns, the secular counterparts tend to be story-type songs of murder, betrayal, licentiousness, courtship, coercion...--not quite the same thing. I think the request for "atheist hymns" refers to uplifting, inspiring or gospelesque songs with a similar sound but without the theistic baggage--that great leap from "isn't this amazing?" or "let's create a better world" to "we must be the undeserving pawns of a loving but strangely violent deity who demonstrates his love by testing our faith in ways that would give the Marquis de Sade a wet dream, according to some perfect and perfectly inscrutable plan--and if you can't accept this, may you burn in torment forever while we sit around with harps, eat bonbons and remind god what a ripping chap he is." |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Desert Dancer Date: 09 May 11 - 03:12 PM More pop than hymns (consider his audience), but, topically, it seems to fit in this thread, rather than really needing its own: Phil Zuckerman's 65 Greatest Songs for Atheists and Agnostics. Phil Zuckerman is a professor of sociology at Pitzer College in Claremont, California, and has just succesfully worked to add a new major in "Secular Studies" there. Of this list of songs, he says "Strictly speaking, any song that doesn't mention God or gods is an a-theist song. That said, it is still fun to listen to songs that specifically debunk religion, critique faith, express healthy skepticism, laud doubt, celebrate the natural world, advocate humanist principles, uphold reason, declare love, or in one way or another offer a secular orientation that is moral, libratory, valuable, joyous, and vibrant. "The songs compiled here offer a variety of irreligious, agnostic, secular, naturalistic, or atheist opinions and perspectives, representing a wide continuum: from the harshly damning to the sublimely happy, from literal debunking to mild innuendo. Some of the songs attack Biblical theology head-on, others merely express a natural love of life. Some express a hearty secular sexuality, others comedic blasphemy. Some express defiance, others transcendental acceptance. Some provide existential wonder at the mystery of being, others a sober frankness concerning the brutal facts of life and death. In some songs, critiquing religion is the heart of each verse and chorus, while in others it is merely the soul of a single line or phrase. In some cases, the title of the song alone warranted inclusion. For some songwriters, merely negating religious dogma is the theme, but for others, expressing a respect for human dignity or a deep love of daily life predominates." Any candidates for the hymnbook here? ~ Becky in Long Beach |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Richard from Liverpool Date: 09 May 11 - 04:11 PM Has Phil Zuckerman listened to all of these songs - or looked up the artists and their intentions? I'm not sure some of them can really be considered atheist at all. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Joe_F Date: 09 May 11 - 06:30 PM Evolutionary Hymn |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Desert Dancer Date: 09 May 11 - 06:48 PM Hmm. The provenance of that last (doubly), to say nothing of its content, puts it on questionable ground. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Stringsinger Date: 14 Aug 11 - 10:45 AM "It may not be a religion...however certain people have taken it to that extreme, and turned atheism into an organised religion....you do realise there are churches where atheists go and congregate, right?" Amergin, this is not true. There are no churches that atheists go to (except perhaps as underground because they like the ritual), there are no atheist churches. Atheism is not, I repeat, an organized religion no matter how much you jump up and down and say it is. That's religious propaganda. Songs for weddings from a Secular Humanist or Freethought perspective are yet to be written. I've written one and there will be others. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Musket Date: 14 Aug 11 - 10:59 AM When I got married in a hotel the other year, the registry office people were quite strict on the principle that there were to be no religious overtones to the event, no hymns sung etc. So, as we were signing the register, the congregation listened to the following over the speakers; Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds - Into my Arms. Sterephonics & Jools Holland - First Time Ever I Saw Your Face. I couldn't think of better songs at the time (although there were many on the shortlist...) that could suit the wedding. I suppose atheist hymns are an oxymoron, although I don't like putting atheist on forms when asked, (I usually put other and then say not applicable.) For me, atheism is portrayed by many as a belief system in itself. The belief that there is nothing. Einstein had a problem with that because he said that atheism ultimately is the belief in chaos and as we experience the laws of physics working, then whatever the answer is, it certainly isn't chaos. If people use the term atheist and then put labels to it, then I would have to say the term no longer describes me and irreligious is a better term. (I joined the church of the flying spaghetti monster the other year, but so did a few colleagues and our childish aim was to make the government body we work for state it in the staff statistics page in the annual report. We pastafarians get about you know! |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Richard from Liverpool Date: 14 Aug 11 - 11:11 AM Surely "Into My Arms" is a song with deeply religious overtones (from a writer who's quite famous for religious thought, writing an introduction to the Gospel of Mark, etc.) I'm surprised they let you get away with that one! "To make bright and clear your path And to walk, like Christ, in grace and love And guide you into my arms" |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Big Ballad Singer Date: 14 Aug 11 - 12:44 PM How about "Nowhere Man"? "She's Not There" by the Zombies? Seriously, though... there are a LOT of beautiful songs that are not religious hymns (many have already been suggested), and there are a LOT of hymns that don't have to be taken at their prima facie level as theistic. We, being human, are free not only to create, but to interpret. It's the insistence of one person or group that DEFINITION (of words or ideas) be concrete that makes for war, especially jihad, no matter whose jihad it might be. I am always encouraged when people are able to gather inspiration or find beauty in the artistic expressions of others without believing that they must ABSOLUTELY accept or COMPLETELY reject the worldview behind said expressions. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Neil D Date: 19 Nov 15 - 02:03 PM FREEDOM by Neil Devore The savage knows that Holy Joes And emperors who wear new clothes Never were the ones he chose To teach him how to live And heaven's just a siren's song Enticing you to go along And certainly the pull is strong Of the solace it can give But when you teach them to beseech A man upstairs they cannot reach The baleful sermon that you preach Is empty and unfair As long ago the Lizard King Raised his voice to shout and sing You cannot go petitioning Your mythic lord with prayer And we were never born to be remorseful Or contrite about some vague primal sin You need only strive to do no harm to what's alive To be in touch with the light that shines within You'll be aglow from the light that shines within Any other rules are just too forceful A crooked game that we can never win You must merely care for one another And the bountiful world upon which we spin The beautiful world upon which we spin When the scales drop from your eyes And fall beneath the bridge of sighs With no one there to hear your cries You're beginning to breathe free With no one there to criticize To damn your eyes or demonize You'll begin to realize The way we're meant to be Sweet music on a summer night Seductive scent that wafts just right A subtle hint of pledged delight To set one's heart aflame A stolen glance, a merry dance So come young lovers grab your chance At dizzying new found romance Without a sense of shame For we were never born to be remorseful Or contrite about some vague primal sin You need only strive to do no harm to what's alive To be in touch with the light that shines within You'll be aglow from the light that shines within Any other rules are just too forceful A crooked game that we can never win You must merely care for one another And the bountiful world upon which we spin The beautiful world upon which we spin So excuse me my apostasy My rejection of theocracy What need we of philosophy To share some food and drink Like hand in glove are peace and love With no assistance from above These are thoughts worth thinking of When you take the time to think When it's said and done, your race has run I hope you'll know you had your fun Golden days spent in the sun With a sparsity of strife Good friends relaxing on the grass A touch of class, a parting glass Nostalgic that this too must pass Like all good things in life And we were never born to be remorseful Or contrite about some vague primal sin You need only strive to do no harm to what's alive To be in touch with the light that shines within You'll be aglow from the light that shines within Any other rules are just too forceful A crooked game that we can never win You must merely care for one another And the bountiful world upon which we spin The beautiful world upon which we spin |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: GUEST Date: 20 Nov 15 - 02:53 AM It's alright proposing hymns for atheists but what about the vast majority of people who don't have any stance on superstition and for whom religion and atheism would be two sides of the same coin? Atheism means rejecting theism. Most people reject coins from parking meters. For my wedding, whilst we were signing, our guests had my friend sing Into my Arms and First Time Ever I Saw Your Face. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Steve Shaw Date: 20 Nov 15 - 04:41 AM I rather like the idea that we atheists can also have hymns. I think the sentiments expressed in this one are inspiring and excellent! |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: GUEST,Peter from seven stars link Date: 20 Nov 15 - 06:43 AM And why not , most other religions probably have hymns too.... |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Steve Shaw Date: 20 Nov 15 - 07:54 AM Twit. Don't even think of trying to spoil this thread. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Steve Shaw Date: 20 Nov 15 - 08:41 AM Joseph Kerman, one of the very finest writers on classical music (he died last year), in his book The Beethoven Quartets, persistently refers to the Adagio ma non troppo e semplice variation in the slow movement of the Quartet in C sharp minor as "the hymn variation." Well, there are no words, of course, but the passage is certainly a moment of stillness and reflection at the heart of the quartet, with a simple metre and much moving up and down the scale. Very much like a hymn, in other words. I didn't mind at all his nicking of the word from religion for that context. Try it and see! |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Mr Happy Date: 20 Nov 15 - 11:55 AM The last few funerals I've attended have been of a secular nature & had the mourners join appropriately in songs such as 'Always look on the bright side of life', 'Across the universe' & 'Thank you for the days' |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Paul Burke Date: 20 Nov 15 - 12:24 PM Perhaps the main reason that there aren't many atheist hymns is that we aren't an organised belief system, and most of us never talk to other atheists as such, just as people. Atheism is a private matter. And we think those with other belief systems should have the common decency to keep quiet about theirs too, and not organise to pass laws and engineer social situations that impose their values on others. BBC's Thought For The Day is one example, the laws about religious education and the promotion of faith schools another. They might just be starting to regret that last one. A friend died a few years ago having asked her children to give her a humanist funeral. It was embarrassing, the children had left it to the undertakers to organise it. They were clueless. A woman dressed in a short skirt and tights (black), a sort of red hunting jacket, and a top hat, assured us all that our friend was now happy and looking down on us, forgivingly. She then recited the (apparently non- religious) Lord's Prayer, complete with the kingdom, power and glory. The irony was that our atheist friend had been a Catholic when previously religious, and they don't do that bit. Neil D - more of that sort of stuff please. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Steve Shaw Date: 20 Nov 15 - 02:34 PM Well that's right. I suppose that as most hymns are either praising the Lord/God/the Virgin Mary (delete as applicable), or asking one or the other of them to do something for us (save us from our miserable, wretched selves or make some or all of us better in any way you care to choose), we heathens don't actually have anyone to sing hymns to for stuff of that sort. I suggest we keep this thread sweet; if you want to have a pot at religion (I always want to do that), try the Pope in America thread. I could use a lift over there! :-) |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: GUEST,Desi C Date: 21 Nov 15 - 04:49 AM Why on earth would youwant Hymns at an Atheist wedding!? Surely there's a massive amount of other good music to choose from. Oddly though as an Atheist myself I do have a few good Gospel songs I like to do purely because I like the tunes |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Jeri Date: 21 Nov 15 - 10:04 AM You realize you're answering a question asked 16 years ago, right? |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Steve Shaw Date: 21 Nov 15 - 12:19 PM Neil's song was posted two days ago, Jeri, and resurrected the thread. I honestly can't see an issue with that. Lots of old threads get resurrected. It's great. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Neil D Date: 21 Nov 15 - 11:50 PM I realized when I posted this song here that it was an old thread that hadn't been open for 4 years. I had just written the song and thought "Hmm, that's kind of an atheist hymn. Didn't there used to be a thread like that on Mudcat?" So I went ahead and posted it. Didn't see the harm, Jeri. Thanks for the kind word Paul. Hope you've been well. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Jeri Date: 22 Nov 15 - 12:17 AM Neil, I mentioned the age of the thread because Desi C didn't like the subject, and the person who started this thread is probably not here to see his complaint. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: POOR LITTLE ME (D Barker, C Strouse) From: Jim Dixon Date: 31 Mar 20 - 09:24 PM I copied and pasted these lyrics from the website of the Freedom from Religion Foundation. You can hear a performance by Dan Barker at YouTube: POOR LITTLE ME Words by Dan Barker, music by Charles Strouse, ©2012. The multitudes mumble mythologies without end, But me, I have trouble with "ologies" that pretend To show what can't be shown, To know what can't be known. Lutherans have liturgies. Calvinists have creeds. Muslims have their minarets. Catholics have their beads. Methodists have methods, holy truth to ascertain, But poor little me, I only have a brain. Bishops transubstantiate. Shintos ring their bells. Transcendentalists meditate. Wiccans weave their spells. Hindus chant a mantra when they can't relieve the pain, But poor little me, I only have a brain. So fearful of the nether land, believers band together. Unhappy with the weatherman, the Zunis wave a feather. They dance in circles to demand: "Great Spirit, send some rain!" But what do you do if you only have a brain? Quakers quake and Shakers shake. Jews eat kosher food. Rastafarians wear their hair in pious gratitude. They all boast of miracles that no one can explain, But poor little me, poor little me, I only have a brain. - - - - - Dan Barker is co-president of the Freedom from Religion Foundation and has written many songs and poems. Charles Strouse wrote the music for Annie, Bye Bye Birdie, and many other musicals. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: Atheists Don't Have No Songs From: cnd Date: 31 Mar 20 - 11:20 PM Reminds me of a great song by Steve Martin and the Steep Canyon Rangers. I've heard them do it live once or twice and it's just as good as this rendition which you can watch here. Admittedly probably not exactly what the searcher is looking for, but I like the song and it's funny, and I can't imagine too many other times to share it. ATHEISTS DON'T HAVE NO SONGS (Words: Steve Martin, Music: Graham Sharp & Woody Platt) Christians have their hymns and pages (hymns and pages) Hava Nagila's for the Jews (for the jews) Baptists have the rock of ages (rock of ages) Atheists just sing the blues (Romantics play) Romantics play Claire de Lune (Claire de Lune) Born agains sing He is risen. But no one ever wrote a tune (wrote a tune) For godless existentialism For atheists, there's no good news They'll never sing, a song of faith In their songs, they have a rule The "he" is always lowercase The "he" is always lowercase (Some folks sing) Some folks sing a Bach cantata (Bach cantata) Lutherans get Christmas trees Atheist songs add up to nada (Up to nada) But they do have Sundays free (have Sundays free) (Pentecostals sing) Pentecostals sing, they sing to heaven (sing to Heaven) Coptics had the books of scrolls (Numerologists count) Numerologists count, they count to seven (five, six, sever or count to seven [depending on version]) Atheists have rock and roll For atheists, there's no good news They'll never sing, a song of faith. In their songs, they have a rule The "he" is always lowercase The "he" is always lowercase Atheists ... Atheists ... Atheists Don't Have No songs! Christians have their hymns and pages (hymns and pages) Hava Nagila's for the Jews (for the Jews) Baptists have the rock of ages (rock of ages) Atheists just sing the blues Catholics, dress up for mass And listen to Gregorian chants Atheists just take a pass Watch football in their underpants Watch football in their underpants Atheists ... Atheists ... Atheists Don't Have No songs! (Don't have no SONGS)!! Album version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VptspP8auFM |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Mr Red Date: 01 Apr 20 - 02:45 AM Why has no-one specifically mentioned Lewis Bridal Song (Mairi's Wedding) No God-bothering in that song. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: GUEST,Ray Date: 01 Apr 20 - 04:03 AM Anything by Ralph Vaughan Williams; editor of the English Hymnal of 1907 and a confirmed atheist? |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Steve Shaw Date: 01 Apr 20 - 05:52 AM He also wrote one of the nicest masses you'll ever hear. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Steve Gardham Date: 03 Apr 20 - 05:59 AM I much prefer the term 'realist' and I use this if asked what my beliefs are. And of course I'll sing almost anything given the right circumstances. Churches, particularly big ones are great places to sing in, and very rarely do you get asked your beliefs which is fine by me. I visit places of worship fairly regularly just for sheer enjoyment and often put something in the pot. I've never been asked to leave because I'm not a club member and I'm thankful for that. Oh and old 100 is one of my faves! |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Mrrzy Date: 03 Apr 20 - 12:48 PM Mairi's wedding isn't in the hymn family is why no one's brought it up... |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Steve Gardham Date: 03 Apr 20 - 02:12 PM RVW. Did he become an atheist after he was confirmed? |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: John C. Bunnell Date: 03 Apr 20 - 02:27 PM It's not entirely true that atheists and churches are wholly incompatible with one another; Unitarian Universalist congregations can be a mixture of atheists, agnostics, and theists. And as an offshoot of liberal Christian denominations, the UUs retain music-inclusive roots and traditions. An artist of interest in this line would be Cat Faber, whose work is most often grouped under "filk" but who also very much qualifies (IMO, anyway) as a modern folk performer and whose lyrics often display strong humanist elements. (See also the Bandcamp page for Echo's Children, a now-inactive duo of which Cat was half.) I should mention that the Bandcamp pages are considerably more up-to-date than those on the artists' outlying Web sites. A couple of specific examples: • Atheist's Anthem • Song of the Makers Scattered among the albums and single track releases are a number of non-religious songs I'd consider wedding-appropriate, including one or two specifically titled as such. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Mrrzy Date: 03 Apr 20 - 04:21 PM We recessionaled to the Clancy Brothers' Mari's Wedding. |
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