BS: Starting a new religion

Subject: BS: Starting a new religion
From: GUEST,Eutopia
Date: 29 May 08 - 05:28 AM

I was discussing religion with a friend who lives in Europe last week and we were lamenting the state of conventional religions where we live. We are not really religiously inclined and in particular don't have much time for Christianity (given its history over the past two millennia), but feel that being members of a spiritual community would have many benefits, particularly at our present middle-aged state in life.

We have put together a rough plan to revive a religion of ancient Rome that became sidelined with the growth of Christianity.

Do any Catters have experience in this field, ie, pros and cons of starting a new religion, dealing with adherents, etc, or thoughts on the issue?

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 May 08 - 06:46 AM

I worship The Goddess of Food.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: jacqui.c
Date: 29 May 08 - 06:57 AM

Why revive an old religion, unless it holds real truths for you today?

Look inside yourselves and discover your own faith, based on your own knowledge and experience. No-one can take that away from you and the need to 'belong' tends, then, to dissipate.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 May 08 - 07:01 AM

To set the ball rolling, you need some martyrs. Obviously it would be inconvenient if you yourself were the martyr, so the first essential is recruiting a few followers from the simpler sections of society, and fire them up to march in a self-righteous fashion towards the seats of power. After a few years of this you should acquire quite a few more followers, and then you can start weeding out heretics, picking whichever method provides the most entertaining spectacle for the masses. After that, the sky's the limit.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: kendall
Date: 29 May 08 - 07:22 AM

The answer is inside yourself, not "out there" somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: John Hardly
Date: 29 May 08 - 07:26 AM

If there's no transcendent reality behind it, it's not religion -- it's a "club".

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Paul Burke
Date: 29 May 08 - 07:42 AM

I think I'm correct in saying that in the UK at least, religions have no formal status unless they are one of the established ones - the C of E and the C of S - perhaps the Church in Wales has some legal backing, but I don't know. Others are legally voluntary associations of various sorts, which may or may not be charities. So there's no formal way of setting up as a religion- otherwise the Jedi and the Pastafarians would have done so by now.

So it's quite easy. Get premises for a temple or two- an old bank should be ideal- and put an ad in the local rag for vestal virgins. You will however have to be licenced as an abattoir to carry out the animal sacrifices necessary for haruspicy, and the DEFRA gold- plating of the EC regulations might make this difficult.

I can't see the attraction of the Roman religion myself- far too many gods, not just the big guns but all those nymphs, satyrs, lares and penates, plus the occasional hazard of premature apotheosis. The Abrahamic variations only have one too many.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 May 08 - 07:50 AM

There are of course an infinite variety of routes you could pick, but they tend to divide historically into two main genres: self-righteousness, or booze/shagging/sacrifice. Take your pick. (It is possible to mix both angles in various subtle ways).

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Rasener
Date: 29 May 08 - 08:19 AM

Get yourself a hotel for the vestal virgins, especially if you go the route suggested by Greg of booze/shagging/sacrifice.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 May 08 - 08:38 AM

In the US, you can start your own religion, and then line up to get handouts from the Office of Faith Based Initiatives.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Sorcha
Date: 29 May 08 - 08:58 AM

Read Dianetics.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 May 08 - 10:51 AM

There are thousands of ways of starting a new religion! Investigate all the religions and cults and spiritual groups around and you will see that.

But the most common way that it happens is through the charismatic leadership or obvious mental brilliance of one person, around whom gather a lot of other people. Good ideas and philosophies are not usually enough in themselves. You need that one person who inspires others to the extent that they wish to be around him or her and they wish to learn from him or her.

That is how a new religion (or a new group within an existing religious tradition) almost always starts.

Those kind of charismatic people run the gamut, by the way, from the very best people to the very worst! You have to have good powers of observation to determine which kind you are dealing with.

One more observation: You do not NEED a "new religion" in order to pursue an individually satisfying and meaningful spiritual life. Why not simply find the central most valuable things that are embodied in pretty well ALL the religions and knit them into your own personal philosophy, and approach it that way? If you want to pray, pray. You don't have to belong to a "religion" in order to pray. If you want to meditate or contemplate, do it. You don't need to belong to a "religion" to do those either. If there is a God or a transcendent intelligence of some kind....do you think he (or she) (or it) belongs to (or is attached to) a specific organized religion????

I sure don't! ;-) Be free as you were meant to be. Be attached to NOTHING. Be owned by NOTHING. That's my view on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Paul Burke
Date: 29 May 08 - 11:02 AM

transcendent reality - now there's a phrase to play with. Can anybody demonstrate a "transcendent reality" in any religion, and also demonstrate that it's absent in some other soi- disant religion?

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Peace
Date: 29 May 08 - 11:03 AM

Guest, Eutopia, my child. This is the Blessed Son of the Holy Light and I am here to answer your prayers. Our religion is based on having faith in numbers. If two wrongs don't make a right, we will try three.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 May 08 - 11:22 AM

Sounds like Eutopia described the Universalist Unitarians pretty clearly in that first post.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 29 May 08 - 11:31 AM

Just what the world needs .... another religion.

Geesh.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Donuel
Date: 29 May 08 - 11:32 AM

Evangelicals don't seem to realize that their branch of cult Christianity that included being born again and the rapturous vanishing of true believers before the end times was started by a guy in England about 100 years ago.
The issues they/Evangelicals have chosen to champion like anti abortion and the destruction of homosexuals are more a hybrid of Republicanism and the late preacher who attacked Tinky Winky.




(the names have been removed to help society forget the greedy hate filled preachers.)

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Amos
Date: 29 May 08 - 11:35 AM

But the most common way that it happens is through the charismatic leadership or obvious mental brilliance of one person, around whom gather a lot of other people. Good ideas and philosophies are not usually enough in themselves. You need that one person who inspires others to the extent that they wish to be around him or her and they wish to learn from him or her.

That is how a new religion (or a new group within an existing religious tradition) almost always starts.


Well and good. But if you probe a bit further, Little Hawk will also advise against trying to start a new religion using the 'Cat as a seed-bed. God knows he's tried. He has written scintillatingly brilliant epistles on spirituality, morals, higher truths revealed in ordinary events, the karma of politics, the nature of metaphysical knowledge, the relationship of the individual to the infinite, how reincarnation works. He even developed a really nifty cross-platform Karma Debit Calculator using C++ and Java code which works for most major moral codes and calculates the probability of your ending up as a broke-dick mammalucca wannabe based on inputs describing your virtues and your sins from the last three lifetimes.

Despite all of this heroic effort, he has not gained a single aspirant willing to follow where he leads. No apostles, no fishers of men or women, nada, zip, pfft. This in spite of many years of earnest endeavour and blindingly bright spiritual insight. He just doesn't understand it. Neither do I, unless perhaps he has some kind of karmic aethereal halitosis.

So, by all means, choose one of your number to start drumming up support and infecting the world with yet another set of unworkable but deeply comforting mind viruses. It's really what the world needs. I suggest you build it on strong principles, action-oriented, real-world dynamic engagement kinda thing, that involve throwing yourself in front of endangered species such as whales, sharks, and polar bears.

If that doesn't work, you and Little Hawk might consider a joint vacation over at the Neil Young Center for the Terminally Screwed, a fine institution dedicated to spiritual restoration and better bedpans, founded here at the Mudcat by Doctor Spaw Patterson. Guaranteed to cure what ails you, IF you get to them soon enough and truly want to get better.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Peace
Date: 29 May 08 - 11:57 AM

Look, God damn it. I'm tryin' to get this guy into my new religion. Stay on topic here!

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Donuel
Date: 29 May 08 - 12:19 PM

To hell with transcendent reality...

What we really need is a translucent reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 May 08 - 12:23 PM

LOL!!!!!!! That first post of yours, Amos, was the damned well funniest thing I have seen from you in some time. Bravo!

Look, man, I don't want any adherents. No! What I want is equal brothers and sisters. I desire no pecking order, no hierarchy, and no followers. All I desire is complete equality.

As for miracles... I think everything's a miracle. But the things one has been exposed to a lot just seem ordinary after a few times, that's all. So you completely forget that they are miracles!

Remember the first time that you kissed someone you loved? Or the first time that you saw the sun rise over the ocean? Or the first time that you bit into a fresh raspberry? Miracles, each and every one. We are inundated in miracles every day of our lives, but he who is asleep takes no notice.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Darowyn
Date: 29 May 08 - 12:56 PM

You should look up "Nova Roma." Classical religion is revived already.
They would not agree with any ideas of equality though. The main interest of the organisers seems to be in setting themselves up as an aristocracy, and electing each other to the magistracy.

Nova Roma
Cheers
Dave
Alias "Davinius Faber" for a few days!

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Peace
Date: 29 May 08 - 01:07 PM

Fu#k the lot of you, then.

From the Church of the Binary Way.

We are either open or closed. There is NO in between.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 May 08 - 01:08 PM

Yeah, I BET they wouldn't agree with any ideas of equality. No thanks, eh? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 May 08 - 01:17 PM

Shane would like to start a new religion too. He would like to be its reigning God. Its sacraments would be drinking beer, smoking dope, and having tawdry sexual liasons with large numbers of loose and very silly women...all of them with large "bazongas", of course. That goes without saying, eh?

Shane has been trying to found such a religion ever since about age 14, but no one wants to worship him for some reason. Nevertheless, he perserveres in his dream.

Everyone needs a dream to live for, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: GUEST,Fr. Peter O'Foyle
Date: 29 May 08 - 01:17 PM

"being members of a spiritual community would have many benefits, particularly at our present middle-aged state in life."

I know just what you mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: GUEST,Eutopia
Date: 29 May 08 - 03:39 PM

Thanks for the contributions. Some of these ideas were discussed last week with my friend, who has spent years researching ancient Roman/Greek cultures (hence the idea of starting a modern version of what I believe was a monotheistic religion in Roman times, although my friend is not averse to having more than one higher being).

Starting from scratch would mean we are not weighed down with the baggage of history, doctrinal disputes, heresies, etc. We can write our own prayers, design our own temple, make recommendations for lifestyle, etc. I think martyrdom might be a bit extreme at this stage, but we'll make provision for it in our doctrine.

It would be nice to have a charismatic leader whose brilliance would immediately attract thousands to the community, but finding one might be time-consuming, and I don't know how much s/he might charge--funds will be low at the beginning, until we arrange tithes, etc. Anyway, we don't want to lose the run of ourselves--we need to have a nice temple or two before the masses beat a path to the door.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 May 08 - 03:51 PM

Heh! ;-) You're pulling our collective legs with this thread, aren't you?

Make a religion with about 87,000 rigid rules and restrictions about dress, hairstyle, diet, and every form of behaviour. Make it mandatory to do 999 different formal things every day to get into heaven. You will attract all the most anal-retentive types who are making people's life a living hell in other religions, and this will be of great benefit to mainstream humanity and to religion in general. Then you can then all move to Texas, drive out the locals, and create an Earthly paradise there which the rest of us will know well enough to avoid. Very handy for all concerned.

See if you can get Tom Cruise to convert.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 May 08 - 04:05 PM

Speaking of that, does anyone understand what Scientology is all about?

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 May 08 - 05:12 PM

I have a slight knowledge of it. They have a device a bit like a lie detector that is used to monitor your nervous system, so to speak. An interviewer (not the term they would use) sits down with you and asks you all kinds of questions about all kinds of aspects of your life. If a question hits a subject that causes you stress, the reading will spike on the machine. The interviewer will then go deeper into that subject. The purpose is to get you to a point (through many such sessions) where you are no longer carrying hidden inner stress about whatever it is that was causing you stress. You can call it a form of pschoanalysis, I suppose...

When nothing raises stress anymore to cause the machine to spike, you are said to be "clear"....meaning you've gotten rid of all your hidden emotional crap that is inhibiting you and getting in the way of you living a fully effective life.

In a general sense scientologists seem to place great emphasis on positive thinking, dressing well, being well organized and well educated, and showing professional comportment in every way. They place great emphasis on effectively pursuing a career and having a good work ethic and strong self-discipline...plus strong social morality, law-abiding habits, etc...

The religion stems from books written by L. Ron Hubbard...a pretty odd character. Look it up on Google.

Scientologists are very goal and work-oriented. They do NOT approve of people leaving the fold...nor do they approve of any criticism of scientology. They view themselves as the cutting edge of humanity's future society...and they view the remainder of society as pretty much lost.

And those are just my superficial observations, based on the slight knowledge I have of it. Fragmentary knowledge, I assure you.

Like I said, look it up on Google and read all about it.

It does not in any way attract me, although I'm sure it suits some people to a "T". I don't like belonging to groups if I can help it. I have my own unique way of being, and no group will entirely let me be according to my own way of being, therefore I do not attach myself to groups very willingly. I resist dogma and am skeptical of rule-makers and hierarchies of every sort.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Amos
Date: 29 May 08 - 06:11 PM

Rig:

There are two very different facets--well, three, actually--to the subject.

The organizational culture is kind of bonkers, in many respects. Some of the attitudes and dramatizations described by LH are in this category.

The fundamental axioms and assertions about human nature are quite clear and incisive and people who bother to sort them out find them very useful.

The clinical corpus, which only holds a faint resemblance to LH's description above, is in itself an interesting study, if you're interested in psychology, and is a blend of spiritual principles something similar to parts of Buddhism, and clinical approaches something akin to Rogerian client-centered therapy.

In general people subscribing to the subject are oriented toward bringing about optimum survival not only for individual lives but for families, groups, other species and forms of life, and life in the material and other universes at large as they may encounter them. ALthough they are a spiritual study, fundamentally, they are not theistic, leaving the topic of God to be discovered by the individual for himself.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Bill D
Date: 29 May 08 - 06:27 PM

"Sounds like Eutopia described the Universalist Unitarians pretty clearly in that first post."

naaw...the religion which Christianity ruined in Rome was
Mithraism....with Ahura Mazda as a major figure. When Constantine converted, Ahura got the short stick.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Peace
Date: 29 May 08 - 06:32 PM

"Ahura Mazda"

The car guy?

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 May 08 - 07:00 PM

Mithraism was a very widespread religion prior to the rise of Christianity. It was when Rome decided to make Christianity the official state religion that the Christian era really began in earnest.

Scientology is interesting. It seems to excel in shaping highly motivated people in terms of developing their life skills and daily survival coping abilities, as Amos alluded to.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 May 08 - 07:13 PM

Re: Scientology: The people who one encounters in the news relative to this particular belief system are mostly Hollywood big-wigs. One would have to think there might be others, less successful, who might find themselves being "used" by the leadership.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Bill D
Date: 29 May 08 - 07:13 PM

Scientology 'may' indeed get some folks to focus....but for it to get status as a religion has always bothered me. It has more scandals & problems than most organizations.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: GUEST,Eutopia
Date: 29 May 08 - 07:22 PM

the religion which Christianity ruined in Rome was
Mithraism....with Ahura Mazda as a major figure.

It's true that the triumph of Christianity led to the demise of Mithraism, but this was not the Ahura Mazda religion (which was confined to Persia and points East), but a religion with the same name that developed much later (but before Christianity) in the Roman Empire. This religion revered Mithras, the Lord of the Universe, famous for his cloak of stars. It was particularly popular among the soldiers of the Empire, and its temples have been found in most places where the Romans had colonies, including London. A disadvantage (?) was that membership was restricted to males. Christianity copied several of its early tenets from this Mithraism, including the birthday of 25 December, the order of priests, baptism, parts of the sacrifice of the mass, etc.

Rest assured that we are not pulling anyone's leg about this. The idea of leaving the topic of God to be discovered by the individual himself, as mentioned above by Amos in relation to Scientology, is something that I must discuss with my friend shortly.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 May 08 - 09:56 PM

I read some of the first articles that L. Ron Hubbard wrote on Dianetics in Analog Science Fiction, and then Hubbard's book Dianetics, likening the mind to a computer, and the idea of psychological problems coming from "engrams." The mind is sort of like a computer loaded with Windows XP. It works pretty good when you first get it, but pretty soon the operating system starts starts to scramble itself and it begins to drive you round the bend because its gone round the bend. Interesting premise with, perhaps, some merit. Auditing (tracking down engrams and getting rid of them--de-bugging) seems like psychotherapy with a different vocabulary.

Then, I guess L. Ron work up one morning and said, "I think I'll make myself a prophet," turned it into a religion, and called it "Scientology."

I found Dianetics pretty interesting and possibly worth further study, but when auditors started wearing dog collars and intoning genuine mumbo-jumbo, I figured it had gone off the rails and that was that.

Don Firth

P. S. Never met an "Operating Thetan." Met a few who claimed they were, but boy, were they screwed up people!!

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 May 08 - 10:33 PM

One would have to think, not knowing any more than I know about all of this, that L. Ron Hubbard must have had something going for him, or how would all of this had taken off?

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Amos
Date: 29 May 08 - 10:50 PM

There were other reasons for the transition, Don. One was that Dianetics therapists were trained to look for earlier incidents if they were getting relief by running the person through the later ones. Great principle, works in practice, but they kept falling off the back end of this lifetime and dropping people into earlier lifetimes. This kind of rubbed the Board of the Research Foundation in Elizabeth the wrong way because they knew that woudl be a hard sell. So the board tried to suppress that aspect of the research work, much like the Council of Whoozis did with the Christian doctrinary meetings in--what was it--AD600 or something? ANyway, that was some of the melodrama in the background when Hubbard grabbed the copyrights and went to Phoenix and started Scientology, which gradually built up into its own subject.

Interesting fellow. Less so than his worshippers would have you think, but more so than the average bear.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 May 08 - 11:09 PM

All these people who start large movements (whether religious or political) have something going for them, Riginslinger. Otherwise they would never make their mark and no one would listen to them.

That doesn't mean what they're saying is necessarily right...but it does mean they are people of considerable ability and talent in some respects.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Slag
Date: 30 May 08 - 01:39 AM

L. Ron's problem is the, like so many others, he began believing his own press.

ALL RELIGION STEMS FROM OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder) so if you want a religion there's lots to choose from. You want to create your own? The possibilities are endless. You want to, ahem, resurrect ancient FAILED religion? Who am I to object? I firmly believe in freedom OF religion and freedom FROM religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 May 08 - 03:45 AM

I think Ron got bored writing SF so he decided to invent a religion.

We were sitting on top of Scarfell Pike, England's highest mountain, on the day after the fells had been re-opened after the foot and mouth outbreak. Hundreds and hundreds of people were heading for Scarfell and the day had an amazing atmosphere.

My wife pointed to a man reading a black leather bound book. Look - he's reading the bible! And he was. I had never seen Wainwright's Guide to the Fells in a leather cover before.

It then struck me that we had the potential for new relgion:

1. A truly charismatic figure, well a bit anyway.
2. A Gospel - in several unique volumes and in widespread circulation.
3. Thousands and thousands of followers.
4. A sense of purpose and endless pilgrimage routes.
5. A discipline for life with sacrements - Mine's a pint of Black Sheep.
6. Special clothes for the converted.
7. A genuine Awe and Wonder at the natural world.
8. Some sense of persecution - those fools in red socks etc.
9. A growing collection of sacred songs - I'm a Rambler, Im a Rambler
10. Our Leader is now dead - that always helps.

OK 10 is enough - you are only allowed 10.

But Wainwright spent a lot of time wondering alone in the wilderness and I challenge any one not to find much "Truth and Inspiration" not forgetting "Awe and Wonder" in his "Guide to the Fells".

And the purpose of this religion?
Only those that read the Good Book - "Wainwright's Guide to the Fells" will find purpose and truth!

OK I am off to found my own thread

Cheers

Les
May your boots comfort your feet,
May your Goretex never leak
Although the path be long and winding
Awe and wonder you'll be finding

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: GUEST,Eutopia
Date: 30 May 08 - 07:11 AM

Excellent, Les. Good luck in founding your thread.

Many religions from the Druids onwards have had a sacred mountain. Something to bear in mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 May 08 - 08:54 AM

You need to be incredibly charismatic and overly dominating.

Oh, wait, no, that's how to start a cult.

(ducking and running for cover...)

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: frogprince
Date: 30 May 08 - 10:04 AM

At the risk of treating this whole idea with a trace of seriousness:

Eutopia is one of the folks in the world who feel there is value in involvment in a defineable religion.

I would challenge anyone to come up with a structure of religious doctrine, containing anything which could affect people's lives in any positive way, which hasn't been covered by some of the myriad of religions already out there.

What possible legitimate reason does that leave for starting one more religion? Frankly, I see people who want to start new churches as people who personally want to be religious authorities, with a body of followers under their authority.

There is every indication that Jesus himself just intended to be a Jew, and contribute some thoughts about what it should mean to live as a Jew.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Peace
Date: 30 May 08 - 10:06 AM

A sacred mountain? Why, there's a mountain of it here!

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 May 08 - 11:18 AM

"What possible legitimate reason does that leave for starting one more religion?"

What if you could go back in a time machine and ask that same question of the founders of all the known religions, each in their own time? ;-)

It would make about as much sense to ask that question then as it does to ask it now. The basic challenges in human life, after all, are essentially the same now as they were then, aren't they? (Maturing, forming healthy relationships, finding purpose and happiness and a sense of meaning in your life, learning more about yourself, others, and the world in general, attaining some measure of wisdom, experiencing love...) Religion, like many other things in life, is simply a way in which people attempt to meet those basic challenges and to understand their place in life, and there will always be new ideas and fresh approaches springing forth in that sense, because the impetus to do so is reborn in each succeeding generation.

Mrrzy - "Cult" is a word people use to label any religion when they wish to really badmouth it and demonize it. It's sort of like calling a Black person a "n----r", only it hasn't yet become politically unacceptable to utter (or write out) the word "cult". It's also a bit like the word "cu - t"...another word that is considered impolite in most quarters, which is why I left the letter "n" out of it. What I mean by that is, it makes a short, blunt, rough expletive sound...a vibration which helps carry negative intent in an emotive sense if one wants to use it that way. The word "fuck" is another such word...very handy for delivering a quick auditory punch in the nose, so to speak.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 May 08 - 11:27 AM

"What possible legitimate reason does that leave for starting one more religion?"

Well, I guess the same reason all the others had - only reason is not often part of the escapade.

Their is no evidence of:
a man in the sky who made everything
knows everything
can intervene in everything
especially if people 'Pray'

The sooner people own up to this the better.

Now, study the life and work of A Wainwright or you are all damned to a life with a good bit missing.

The Truth

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a new religion
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 May 08 - 11:30 AM

Yes, I remember the Jim Jones Religion back in the 1980's.