BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'

Subject: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Maryrrf
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 08:39 PM

It just came out in the theaters around here, and I went to see it. I found it disturbing, to say the least. It deals with the myriad of problems in the US health care system - if you can call it a system. I have a son with a very expensive illness, and I've always been fortunate to have insurance that covered his treatments - but only because I made sure I ALWAYS worked for very big companies. But what about the people who fall through the cracks?   I'd be curious to hear others' reaction - those of you who've seen the movie. I highly recommend it. Google "Sicko" and it will come up, take a look at the official website.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 09:15 PM

Hi Mary
My wife & I just came home from seeing it too. I haven't quite processed the whole experience yet but I'm glad to see that he put an exposed fave of how the US health system has been treating it's people. I laughed then started to cry seeing that others were in the same boat as me, I didn't want that much company. 35 yrs working construction/hard labor & I can't even afford the medication I need because my wife's insurance company plus my medicare won't authorize some of what I need. Just like the movie, pre-existing conditions or it's not on our prefered list of meds or it's not approved or not pre-approved. Like the ambulance bill in the movie not being covered because it wasn't pre-approved, my family's covered by Blue Cross & my son's ambulance bill still isn't covered even though we've battled with then since before Xmass.
Where's a gun when you really need one? Like when you're in the hospital trying to get well & the insurance tells you you're not covere for this one. Thank God I had great medical coverage when I was Going through my transplants (other didn't), I just wish we could've kept it so I could afford what SS now pays me. Not much after I take out $400 a month for med's.
It was a shock to see what nations that aren't as rich as the US do for their folks, maybe we'd better start a revolution. Taxation without ,,,,,,,,

It was well done, thanks Michael Moore, I'm now near sick death!!

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 09:21 PM

Reagan talked about "a social safety net." I noticed quite some time ago that the net had been slashed to ribbons.

People worry about socialized medicine, but I suspect that they had better start worrying about having any medicine at all. One good epidemic (not even a pandemic) and the US would be...well, I think it will be either a social revolution or a bloddy one.

I hope for the former.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 12:47 AM

Michael Moore was on a television talk show last night to talk about the film. I'll see it as soon as it comes to town.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 02:49 AM

I'll grab it as it passes by over here. But I'm waiting for the usual detractors/apologists for the status quo to see how they'll spin this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 03:48 AM

'social safety net'....

The trouble with a net is, it's just a series of holes tied together. It's fine if your wallet is big enough to not fit through the holes, but if it isn't... you're lost.

We in the UK may bitch about the NHS, there are tears in the net, they've got a bloody hard job to do with crappy resources that never seem to cover what is needed, but overall, they do a damn fine thing.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 04:22 AM

Expecting a coutry to be strong and productive without a proper health care and education system is putting the cart before the horse. I can't think of a strong economy anywhere, which is built on poor public health and education standards.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 04:30 AM

I wish that were true, Alan, it's certainly the way I'd want it. But history tells us different. Ancient Egypt, and Rome, and Greece, were built on underfed, overworked slaves that never saw a doctor. Even England's industrial revolution paid scant attention to the wellbeing of the very workers it built with/on.

I think it boils down to this: You can have a strong economy built on poor public health/education standards, provided you are prepared (and allowed) to treat your workforce like so many cattle. It's the ethics, not the physics, that make the difference, I believe.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 05:00 AM

How true George... no sooner did we gain the NHS than we lost the Empire!!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: kendall
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 09:07 AM

As a federal retiree, I have medicare and blue cross/blue shield, and it still costs me $400 a month for health insurance.
Everytime I get a small cost of living increase, they take at least half of it for health insurance increases. My pension is double what it was in 1980, and my health insurance is at least four times as much. The drug companies are bleeding us dry and the damn politicians allow it becaue they are owned by those greedy bastards.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 09:19 AM

The US out spends its nearest competator $500 billion to $24 billion for defense. Then there is the off the books, black ops defense spending.

All guns and no butter makes Jack a sicko.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: dwditty
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 09:21 AM

I work for a small company, so I pay over $900/month for health insurance...and crappy health insurance at that. Doctor visits have a $30 co-pay. Prescription co-pays generally run $40. Lots of exclusions. I know people who have insurance through their jobs with $5 co-pay with premiums running about $75/month. Yes, I think it is time something is done.

dw

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 09:22 AM

Takes actual thought and action and work to figure out how to fix a problem. Those are something politicians aren't trained for.

Besides, the US politicians have excellent, excellent health care insurance. I propose, and have for a long time, allowing them no more than what is standard in their district: in salary, in health insurance, in vacation, in retirement.

Betcha you'd see some changes....

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 09:24 AM

George, it depends which end of the microscope you are looking through. If we are talking about oligarchies - I can't argue. We all know that the great "democracy" of ancient Greece amounted to an enfranchised 11% of the population. I like to think htat is no longer possible.
The countries which seem most economically successful to me are countries like Switzerland, which has a high per capita wealth, despite having next to no natural resources. Others, which fit hte bill include Norway, Sweden and Finland. I would hate to be poor in the US...

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 09:37 AM

Alan, I've BEEN poor in the US. Grew up that way.

It ain't fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 09:45 AM

The countries which seem most economically successful to me are countries like Switzerland, ...Norway, Sweden and Finland..

All high tax economies without delusions of international grandeur.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 10:15 AM

Part of the problem is that the US is big enough to provide all kinds of travel opportunities and experience without people ever needing to leave the administration. If more Americans could visit more countries, it wouldn't take a Michael Moore movie to stir things up.

I've met people from the (former) GDR, Hungary and Czechoslovakia who were better off being poor in those countries, under the Soviet cosh, than they would have been being poor in the US. If I was poor and ill, I'd fare better in some remote part of Cuba than in Washington DC.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 10:17 AM

OK Alan, I understand. Of course, that says that the US is not economically successful, or if it is deemed to be successful, it only manages that with bad health & education provisions because it is an oligarchy.

I could live with that perspective :-) but I suspect many US-ers think they have a democracy (ducking...).

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 10:46 AM

I saw two interviews with Moore. Both concentrated on his trip to Cuba with 911 responders who could not get treatment here in the States. They are now subject to arrest.

It is no secret that our health care system only provides health care for people can afford it or people who can't and have the persistence to work through the system. The middle class is screwed.

I pay $300 a month for health insurance with a $5000 deductible. It does offer some discounts on prescriptions and a $20 discount per office visit. Most years my health costs plus insurance premiums exceed $8000. But I have to have it or risk losing my home and retirement savings if I am in an accident or seriously ill. $8000 a year for a healthy woman with high blood pressure and a thyroid that can't decide if it is overactive or under.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 12:00 PM

Oh yeah, I bet I was poorer.


We (US patients) spend 2.2 Trillion dollars on health care.

The Insurance companies/HMO's take 30% off the top.

The Insurance companies/HMO's take 30% off the top.

The Insurance companies/HMO's take 30% off the top.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Riginslinger
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 12:02 PM

'"Reagan talked about "a social safety net."'

             Why would Reagan talk about a social safety net? I'm surprised he could even pronounce the words.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 12:09 PM

Many countries have a tax on Goods and services, Canada is one, part of which goes to funding public health care. It would seem to be a good place to start. I do not think that the geographic size of America is the problem, Canada is 34 % larher, yet it manages to have a national health programme which is supported by 30 million people. I think a country muist believe that it has certain moral obligations to the citizens. America seems to lack that ethic and relies more on the survival of the fittest.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 12:10 PM

The US is economically successful if that means putting huge amounts of money into the hands of a few wealthy industrialists. However, it is the only indstrial society I have heard of, in which many people have to take on second and third jobs to be able to afford health insurance. It is also the only "modern" economy, in which nearly one per cent of its citizens is in prison and between a fifth and a third (according to which statistics you believe) have no proper health insurance. That would be intolerable in any Western European nation. Viewed in those terms, I would hesitate to call the US a "successful" economy.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 12:56 PM

I think that America as an economy is a great success. But as the word"socialism" ot "socialized" seems to set much of the populace and a lot of politicians on edge, the comittment to enter into a covenant with it's citizens seems to elude American concepts of democracy. America needs one great champion of health care for all..that person has not yet stepped forward..I believe Clinton had it in mind but could not get either the public or the politicians to buy into it. It might be possible to to push for National health in the upcomming elections if people were so not much obssed with things that are ,perhaps, of lesser importance.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Barry Finn
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 01:16 PM

To put it in bluntly, the health system here in the US sucks, it's rated 44th world, we don't live nearly as long as many other people of other nations do, our birth rate is or was 17th. It's the same as th poverty issue, they go hand & hand.
An unhealthy & an undereducated society will tolerate being taken advantage of, as we are.
The rich start a war & the poor, undereducated, youngsters go off to fight it for chump change & medical coverage & a chance to get a paid for education. If they're lucky they come home & get to fight again to get coverage for medical for disabilities sustained in battle, which means that they're a bit pre-occupied to collect on their college promises.
Folks work a job for the medical coverage now instead of the pay or other benifits. Bush thinks it's "uniquely American" that an elderly woman worked 3 jobs to get by & laughs & asks her if she gets any sleep, ignorant jerk! It's a crying matter, it's revolting that this nation's people are held hostage by it's education & health systems. It's always been this way for the poor but now it's overtaking the middle classes too & it's become to big of a problem now to just sweep under the rug. That's a lot of bodies to bury unnoticed, hopefully this will give the public the short in the ass that they need to demand something better. The California Nurses Assoc. are taking "Sicko" & Michael on the road with them on a nation wide tour to give 3000 free showing of the film, they claim that the movie is only showing the "G" rate version of the problem & that what we're seeing in the film is less than typical, that it's a hell of a lot worst.
I just found out that I'm not even covered for an eye exam & I'm covered by Blue Cross & Medicare, & I pay through the nose for both, they won't even look at my bloody nose for Christ sake & after bleeding me too.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 01:22 PM

Mike Moore for Pres?

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Maryrrf
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 01:48 PM

Could it be that this movie will finally wake people up? Barry, you bring up a very important point - what has always been a problem for the poor is now a major problem for the middle class, and so is there hope that enough people will stop being scared off by all the incessant propaganda generated by the American Medical Association, the insurance companies, and the pharmaceutical companies - and truly vote for a change? More importantly, can we vote in a change, or is it already too late? Personally I think a lot went on behind the scenes in the last two elections and I'm not sure I trust the 'democratic process' all that much anymore. I too noticed that bit about the president laughing about the elderly lady who was working three jobs - he actually said something to the effect of "That's wonderful, that's the American way!" and asked if she got enough sleep. You know what, it's not funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 02:52 PM

Other movies have faced this problem.
One good one was with Travolta as a lawyer taking on the health care attorneys over a kid with leukemia.

Another was John Q Public which was a very poor film.

------------------

Reagan talked about "a social safety net" the same way GWB talked about America under his rule not being a nation building policeman of the world.

-------------------

Sadly the American way is living in the fearful shadow of the goverment. In France the goverment fears the people, in the US the people fear the goverment.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 02:53 PM

There are demonstrations in California this week to support the new health care bill that goes in a consumer direction for a change.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 03:16 PM

"In France the goverment fears the people, in the US the people fear the goverment." Michael Moore, via Donuel

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: MuddleC
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 04:24 PM

Both my elderly parents (80/82) are afraid of going into hospital for surgery as they have both caught serious secondary infections during previous hospital stays following knee/hip and stomach surgery.
Despite my health cover, I had to make sure that my insurer's got paid back for my enforced stay following a road traffic accident by sueing the driver of the other vehicle. The ward and some of the medical attention was lacking before I invoked the private health cover... in private treatment I wasn't allowed a light plastic water jug.. it had to be heavy glass.. and there's me with a broken left wrist and a broken right arm!... but I was able to borrow scarce physio equipment to help treat the worst of my repaired knee joints... until the insurers said 'time' , at which point I went back to the general ward , and shuffled about waiting for my broken heel to mend... at least I had no open cuts by then...

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 05:26 PM

My father in law, aged 95, had a nasty fall a few weeks back, had to have masses of medical attention, and is still getting help several times a day from care workers, regular day hospital rehab sessions, and aids and adaptions. These have meant that after a few weeks with us he's been able to move back into his own place and is getting back into his own pattern of life again.

The one thing everyone involved in is certain of, thank God we don't live in the USA. We'd all be bankrupt.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 07:13 PM

If you are an American, your health insurance company (assuming that you have health insurance) stands between you and your doctor. If you need an emergency medical procedure, the first thing your doctor and any medical facility involved have to do is find out it your insurance company will cover it, and, if so, how much of it they will cover.

Let's apply that same idea to other services one might need in an emergency :   suppose, if your house caught fire, your local fire department (paid, let us assume, not by our taxes, but by private insurance companies) had to check first to see if you had insurance, and if so, find out how much of the cost of putting out the fire your policy would cover.

Or someone is breaking into your house, you pick up the phone to call the police, and. . . .

Would we find a system like that acceptable? And if not, then why are we willing to accept a health care system that operates that way?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Peace
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 09:37 PM

I was in a hospital last week. I didn't have my wallet with me, nor did I know my health care number, nor did my name bring up my account. However, they treated me and I left. They wanted to keep me for the evening but I refused. Would that have happened in the US? Serious question here.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 10:10 PM

I do hope it was not crabs. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 10:32 PM

Depends of where in the US, Peace. But yes, probably you would have been given some sort of treatment, at least in the places I'm familiar with. If kept overnight you might not have had a private room, a phone, and a television though.

I just had an eye exam, which I've had annually since I was about seven years old. I have very low grade cataracts, the barest beginnings of macular degeneration in my left eye, and I need new glasses. I'll get the new glasses (Vision Insurance will pay for part of it, as it will with the eye exam). I'm lucky(?) to have diabetes II, because now most of the exam is covered by Blue Cross.

On July 18 I'm braving the Veterans' Administration hospital system and having an audiology test done at the hospital in Salt Lake City (yes, I need hearing aids and I have constant tinnitus). I filed a VA claim in January for hearing loss and possible AO exposure, so here we go...finally.

For this I will give up about a day and a half of sick time from work and drive approximately 350 miles total. Mind you, the VA will reimburse me...US $0.11 per mile, a rate that hasn't changed since 1978. That's US $38.50, enough to cover the costs of gasoline. Of course, since the appointment is at 9 a.m. I'll have to spend the night down there, and THAT isn't covered...and neither are any meals I eat....

Once all things are decided and if my claims are found to be just, I'll be able to pop over to the local University's audiology department and get the hearing aids, have the local University's medical studies department monitor my diabetes.... That will be a drive of about 10 minutes.

Ah, yes. Good ol' US healthcare.... I'm glad I'm working, and frankly, I can't see any chance of retirement anytime soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Peace
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 10:35 PM

Tell me about it. Retirement that is. Sheesh . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Maryrrf
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 10:44 PM

My personal opinion is that no you would not have been treated unless it was deemed a life threatening emergency, and even then I wouldn't bet money on it! The website for "Sicko" has lots of depressing stories and anecdotes from people who have had the misfortune to get sick in America, including one who was the victim of a crime (beaten) and ended up with his credit rating destroyed due to hospital bills. Oh and don't forget to go to the LA Times and read about the woman who died in the emergency room as her husband begged someone to help her.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Kent Davis
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 10:46 PM

Peace,
Yes, you would have been treated. In the US, emergency rooms in hospitals that accept Medicaid funding (i.e., most hospitals) are required to post notices informing the public that they will receive emergency assessment and stabilization regardless of ability to pay. At least at our local hospitals in the mid-Ohio Valley, the staff bend over backwards to provide any treatment that could by any stretch of the imagination be called "emergent". This does not mean, of course, that the service is free, but it does mean that payment is not required in advance. If the patient is unable to pay afterward, the hospital will work out a payment plan, generally with generous terms, and often will write off all or part of the bill - provided that the patient is making some effort to pay.

McGrath of Harlow,
You would likely not be bankrupt as your 95-year-old father would certainly qualify for Medicare, possibly for Medicaid, perhaps for charity care and, depending on what sort of work he had done, possibly for other coverage as well. Coal miners, railroad workers, and civil servants, for example, often have excellent medical coverage. If he were a veteran, he would qualify for benefits through the Veterans Administration. That system is famously uneven in quality, but it can be excellent. My father-in-law is very satisfied with his care through a VA clinic near their home in SW Virginia.

Many of you may not be aware that WalMart, KMart, and Giant Eagle pharmacies have programs in place to provide a month's supply of a great many medications for $4. These programs include medications for diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, edema, tachycardia, depression, anxiety, pain, etc. In addition, drug companies have programs to provide other drugs at reduced cost or even free to those who need them. There are private charities that provide help. Many physicians will give out "samples" of medications provided by drug companies. I have have many patients who had to take a drug twice daily instead of a more expensive once-daily extended release form, many who had to take two separate drugs instead of a more-expensive combination pill, many who had to take a "good enough" drug instead of the best drug on the market but, so far, I have NEVER had a patient who simply could get needed medication.

None of the above is intended to deny that our system has its problems. I do believe, however, in giving credit where credit is due.

Kent Davis, D.O.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 11:13 PM

I want to see this film very much. I am such a broken record on the subject of national health care that I irritate myself.........! But our family medical insurance (NOT including eyes, or teeth or any frivilous extras like that......) runs me $1450 A MONTH.......do the math - $17K a year for insurance. Of course, my son is about to be booted off the policy as he does not want to go on to further education and he will turn 19 in September; my middle child is walking the tightrope between being kicked off our coverage now she is no longer in full time education and waiting for the medical insurance on her new full time job to kick in. As I have stated before I understand that I am 'lucky' to be able to pay this huge bill -- but adding in separate coverage for Dental ($1200 a year) these premiums take an enormous bite out of my family's income. We do have presciption drug coverage -- thank heavens, but after out of pocket expenses and non covered items, the annual bite is at least $20K. That - of course - is assuming none of us get really ill -- we have an ENORMOUS deductible. The system is ridiculous, barbaric and cruel.    And there are people who actually couldn't understand why the Cuban family from way back when wanted their kid the hell out of America and back in Cuba where he couldn't play with electronic games 24/7 but he did get health care!

OK - I'm done.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 11:38 PM

Kent, I have a LOT of respect for physicians -- both alleopathic and osteopathic. They do a lot of good for those who cannot afford medical care -- I know, I grew up in that situation. Fortunately, our "family doctor" provided us with care at far, far less than her usual rate (mostly free, I think).

But the system has problems, and like everyone else physicians should be paid for their services. So should hospitals. Right now, some of my medical bill goes to pay the bill of someone poor (which I don't mind) or a deadbeat (which I very much mind).

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 03:20 AM

Kent, I was going to affirm that emergency rooms in the US accept and treat walkin or hauled in patients. I understand that many of the ER bills are never paid- at least, that is the rationale we hear as to why hospital care is so expensive.

FWIW, my local hospital does something that I had never heard of: the patient pays a surcharge of $856.00 for each admission. In other words, if you are released after being kept overnight and then find that you have to come back again, that night or later, you will be charged the $856.00 AGAIN. That's on top of the normal charges. And it is not covered by Medicare or most other insurance plans.

Kent, you say: "I have have many patients who had to take a drug twice daily instead of a more expensive once-daily extended release form, many who had to take two separate drugs instead of a more-expensive combination pill, many who had to take a "good enough" drug instead of the best drug on the market but, so far, I have NEVER had a patient who simply could get needed medication. "

I've been trying to unravel that sentence, and so far I've concluded that you mean "have NEVER had a patient who simply could NOT get needed medication."

Would you clarify?

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Maryrrf
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 11:12 AM

A lot of money is being made off of the messed up American system, but I think the goose that laid the golden egg is on its last legs. It is getting to the point where individuals can't afford insurance premiums, companies can't afford to offer insurance to their workers, and sick people certainly can't afford to pay for their medical care and prescriptions at the inflated prices we're seeing. Where will it all end???

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Mark Ross
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 11:19 AM

Saw a bumper sticker a while back, THE AMERICAN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM - DON'T GET SICK!

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Kent Davis
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 03:44 PM

Ebbie,
You are correct. I meant to write "I have have many patients who had to take a drug twice daily instead of a more expensive once-daily extended release form, many who had to take two separate drugs instead of a more-expensive combination pill, many who had to take a "good enough" drug instead of the best drug on the market but, so far, I have NEVER had a patient who simply could NOT get needed medication." I left out the word "not" in the last line. Sorry and thanks for catching the error.
Kent

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 08:22 PM

the elites in US industry are now starting to talk about some kind of public health care system.. Ironically because of the high legacy costs that companies like Chrysler have(WHICH makes them uncompetitive). since large corporations are required to provide medical ins. coverage (I belive).

So it costs chrysler something like a $1000 less to build the same car in Canada because of Canadas universal health care coverage..

now - my insurance coverage in Canada (in BC) is $56 /month which everyone is required to have and pay(some employers cover this as a benefit) Although for those who cant afford it the there are other options.
Granted the state of medicare in Canada is constantly in the news.. usually there are long waits for various procedures so its not perfect. Some people are pushing for some kind of mixed public/private system while others feel that would be the slippery slope with an end to the public medical care.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 08:31 PM

In the US even with insurance there frequently is a longish wait to see a specialist or even your own doctor. Three weeks or a month for a non-emergency is fairly standard.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 09:02 PM

Kent Davis's list of possible ways my father-in-law might have been able to get help in the States is reassuring - but ain't it complicated, all those different schemes and agencies! How much simpler to have a system where, of you get injured, you get the treatment you need, and money just doesn't enter into the picture.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Stu
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 07:17 AM

The root of the problem here is the fact the US (and increasingly here in the UK) people are not viewed as citizens, but consumers. Your sole purpose is to be sold things mainly stuff yuou don't need, but in a very aggressive capitalist system this includes healthcare.

As long as your politicians and business leaders see you as a method of funding their own war/lifestyle/etc then you're lumped with it. The notion everyone is free to choose in the market economy is revealed for the falsehood it is in the case of the US healthcare system. If you don't have the cash then you don't have any choice, no matter what the constitution says.

Lemons to be squeezed.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 06:41 PM

Going to see aforesaid 'Sicko' tonight -- if it has anything like the same effect on me as Fahreinhet 911 I will be blown away. Will report in later.