BS: London is a war zone!

Subject: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 May 18 - 03:33 AM

President Twittler, in a speech to the NRA, has suggested that tough gun controls have created a situation where knife crime causes more damage than gun crime

BBC article

The implication is that arming the UK with guns would lessen knife crime. I don't think that I need to point out to the intelligencia of Mudcat the absurd logic of this. Just send my considerations to our American friends on having such a dipstick for a leader. We had Farage but him and his party have been all but wiped out now. I wish for a similar and speedy resolution to your current problems as well.

Good luck

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 May 18 - 04:18 AM

What the fuck has Nigel bleeding Farage to do with the price of eggs?
He was leader of a tiny single issue party, not the big cheese like Trump...

I think its a great idea to arm all Londoners with free automatic rifles, free ammo and a hand grenade belt.

If that doesn't make property in the capital more affordable, nothing will.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Thompson
Date: 06 May 18 - 05:09 AM

Ah, America, thank you so much for electing your president. Every morning I wake up to another fabulous comedy routine.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: DMcG
Date: 06 May 18 - 05:13 AM

And coming from a man who has less experience of war zones than many Americans of his age and younger...

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 May 18 - 05:17 AM

If we all had guns I don't imagine he'd be too keen about coming here in July and parading himself in front of crowds of Londoners...

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 May 18 - 06:17 AM

Twittler and Toad of Europe Hall have a lot in common, Al. Both pander to the worst in people, both use alt truth as a weapon and both are rich boys pretending to be friends with the common man. My point was that we have managed to get rid of one and hopefully America will follow suit.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 May 18 - 06:27 AM

Amen, Dave. Trump and Haddock-Face are both owned by the immensely-wealthy corporations, groups, and individuals who give them their instructions. They pander to ordinary people's' prejudices and grievances in order to garner their support, but they serve only the interests of the wealthy.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 May 18 - 08:51 AM

wouldn't count on it - most presidents seem to get a second term

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 May 18 - 09:06 AM

I'll take a tenner on that now if you like, Al. Payable to my favourite charity if he doesn't.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 May 18 - 10:00 AM

Guns.. knives...

What we need is an NRA equivalent promoting English Long Bow ownership...!!!!!

That'd teach muggers, teenage hoodlums, and foreign looking chappies not to get too close,
if they knew we were all trained to use and packing loaded Long Bows
when we nip out to the shops and tea rooms...

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 May 18 - 10:44 AM

er...what is your favourite charity?

never underestimate the public's stupidity. going on the latest adulation for bringing kim bongboo to heal. i'd say my money was safe.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 May 18 - 12:01 PM

Every morning I wake up to another fabulous comedy routine.

From this side of the pond it's Groundhog Day getting worse every day. Not. Funny.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 May 18 - 12:25 PM

Some years ago Ireland was abuzz with discussion on rural crime when a farmer, finding a Traveller trespassing on his property, executed him - he wounded him with a shotgun, beat him around the head with a fence-pole as he lay on the ground, then went into the house, reloaded his shotgun and administered the coup de grâce, killing him.
Despite the fact that there was no question of his having done this, he was found not guilty and freed
Shortly after this, an Irish American journalist, Mary Ellen Synon, then living in Kerry, was interviewed on Kerry Radio about America's gun laws.
She said that it was the duty of all rural dwellers to own and be prepared to use a gun.
Synon had made her name earlier by describing the Sydney Paralympics as "grotesque".
Her statement, "Surely physical competition is about finding the best - the fastest, strongest, highest, all that. It is not about finding someone who can wobble his way around a track in a wheelchair, or who can swim from one end of a pool to the other by Braille."
Yet we are supposed to imagine that there is some kind of equivalence in value between what the cripples do and what the truly fastest, strongest, highest do. There isn't", lost her her job as a regular contributor to The Irish Times, and several other lucrative appointments.
perverse".
it was revealed later that she was nicknamed "the Bonk of England" by tabloid newspapers in 1995 after she disclosed that she and Rupert Pennant-Rea had had sex on the governor's dressing room floor at the Bank.
Wonder if she ever 'met' Donald Trump !!
People who advocate the ownership and use of guns seem to have come out of a certain mold
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 May 18 - 01:40 PM

Current!y Age UK but it may have changed when Twitler gets booted out. If you are up for it, I will let you know then. If he does get back in, let me know what yours is.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 May 18 - 02:25 PM

Jim, your post reminds me of the case of Norfolk farmer Tony Martin, who shot dead a trespassing thief whom he found on his property. I believe it was a pair of travellers. (The other one wasn't shot) and they'd been trying to burgle him for ages. He was rather eccentric and lived all alone in a remote and isolated place.
Martin was jailed, but after three years his sentence was reduced and he was freed.

There was outrage on Martin's behalf, as there is now regarding a traveller knifed to death recently in a similar case where an elderly man and his wife who suffers from dementia were burgled and during a scuffle the traveller was killed. The elderly man was arrested, but later released.

I have mixed feelings about killing (either by shooting or knifing) a burglar. Obviously the miscreant shouldn't be in one's house in the first place stealing. And one shouldn't be expected to offer the chap a nice cup of tea and a slice of cake. Also, one would be terrified (I know I would!) and might attack in fear/self-defence. But anyone, burglar or not, losing their life is tragic. I can't bring myself to rejoice and say "Ha ha, Serves them right!" They are somebody's son/partner/dad after all.
I bet I'm alone in this over-sympathetic viewpoint (I always was a bit 'sorft' as they say in Norfolk)

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Iains
Date: 06 May 18 - 02:44 PM

If they break into your house, they leave their rights at the front door. Once we deported people for stealing a loaf of bread. Now we are more enlightened - Perhaps too enlightened. Crime needs to be punished.
A slap on the wrist in a magistrates court is no deterrent. If you break into an old persons house in the middle of the night and they wake up they will be terrified. The instinct is flight or fight, with whatever comes to hand. If the outcome has lethal consequences for the house invader they have only themselves to blame.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 May 18 - 02:51 PM

It's the criminal scum who then threaten retaliation against the self defending victims of injured and dead thieves..
that send my views on law and order veering further right than Judge Jeffreys...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Iains
Date: 06 May 18 - 02:54 PM

PFR I totally agree with your sentiments.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 May 18 - 02:54 PM

I understand Iains. My husband agrees with you. When he was young he was a night security guard in the port of Abidjan, and bears scars where he was attacked by a thief with a knife. He has no sympathy with invading robbers, and says they're dangerous and deserve all they get.
He says too that if a thief entered out house he'd personally 'attend to him' (I reckon he means it'd be curtains for the guy!)

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: meself
Date: 06 May 18 - 03:48 PM

If Jim's account of the event in Ireland is accurate, it's so far removed from these cases of someone breaking into an old person's house that I really wonder why you're talking about them.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 May 18 - 04:00 PM

The difference between Tony Martin's case, and the case of the pensioner who disarmed his armed assailant and used the weapon on the assailant was, IIRC, that Tony Martin shot his victim in the back as he (the victim) was running away, ostensibly in an act of revenge, whereas the pensioner in the recent case was actually fighting for his life in hand-to-hand combat.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Iains
Date: 06 May 18 - 04:03 PM

The common thread is travellers. Jim has a "rapport" with them shared by few others. As a group they contain a very visible minority with no respect for the law or for others property.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 May 18 - 04:05 PM

Well meself, I did think we were talking about guns being preferable to knives, and about self-defence in London (or UK) and the US.
But if it makes you wonder why I'm talking about them, I'll desist immediately.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 May 18 - 08:26 PM

"As a group they contain a very visible minority with no respect for the law or for others property."
Stereotyping racism again Iains
I spent over thity years recording them and befriending them - what experience have you had, apart from reading about their being evicted?
You have an exact description of what happened to John Ward - perhaps you might clamber offer your wall of prejudice to comment on it
Hatre like yours sent six million Jews to their deaths and is now leading to dead refugee children being carried from the sae while their parents are being shipped back to war zones in conflicts we either helped to start or facilitated by selling arms
What kind of humans are you people   - beyond me, I'm afraid
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 May 18 - 08:33 PM

Perhaps you'd like to add your support to this opinion offered by a Midlands J.P. during the making of 'The Travelling People Radio Ballad
Jim Carroll

While collecting information for the above Radio-Ballad, producer Charles Parker interviewed Alderman Harry Watton, J.P., of Birmingham:
Watton: "How far does it come in your mind before you say: 'I have done everything I possibly can ... and I will help the broad mass of these people, but there are some I can do nothing with whatsoever.'
Then doesn't the time arise in one's mind when one has to say: 'All right, one has to exterminate the impossibles ...'"
Parker: "Exterminate - that's a terrible word. Surely you don't ... mean that ...? "
Watton: "Why not?"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 May 18 - 09:06 PM

I have just completed an 8+ hour course required for an "enhanced" permit to carry a concealed weapon (not necessarily a firearm -- hell, it could be an assegai or a claymore if those would be concealed, a dirk or set of brass knuckles. (NB: I don't carry a weapon, concealed or otherwise as I think doing so is silly.) But being a gun owner (target shooting) I want to be "up" on the latest laws, safety recommendations, etc.

Part of the class -- most of it, in fact -- was on the laws regarding firearms (I didn't ask about a concealed bearded axe). In all states of the US, you cannot:

*shoot a fleeing person.
*shoot someone "on suspicion.
*wave a weapon around with intent to intimidate.
*carry a weapon into a Federal building, courthouse, school, and in some States, bars and churches.

You must defending your life (not your property) or the life of another. The danger to life must be imminent and immediate.

It is strongly, very strongly, suggested that if you are going to carry a concealed weapon that you get insurance to cover your legal costs, because you're going to be sued. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Of course, the news outlets have as a policy "If it bleeds, it leads." I make no apologies for criminals. I would defend my home, myself, and my family as best I could against an attacker or home invader. I would probably, however, use my bare hands or some type of club/nightstick/billy instead of a gun or knife (bloodstains are sooooo difficult to remove from the carpet) and bullets go through walls and even the neighbor's walls. But then, I have had more than a little training in the use of batons as weapons (and I taught hand-to-hand combat).

I check the news every morning to see how the president has embarrassed me and the country overnight.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 May 18 - 03:52 AM

That's most interesting Rap. It seems physical 'self-defence' is the only acceptable reason to attack a miscreant with a weapon.

Of course, if one keeps any sort of weapon handy in the house, there's a danger that the invader might seize it out of one's hand and use it.

I have always tried to avoid stereotyping as it leads to racism, and all sorts of other 'isms'. And generalisations can never be accurate.
Every human being on the planet is an individual.

And to me, human life is sacred, even that of a burglar. Having a life snuffed out is a tragedy. (That's why I'm in two minds about abortion (see another thread) from my own point of view, but I accept that each woman as an individual has the right to choose)

Any burglar in our house would be rather disappointed, as we have no valuables and don't keep any cash on the premises. I expect I might offer the chap a nice cup of tea to cheer him up.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 18 - 04:15 AM

Would that be before or after hubby beat the **** out of him? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Iains
Date: 07 May 18 - 04:23 AM

Jim my post above can easily be verified. Get off your high horse and deal with it. Would you like a list of further crimes by travellers?

Below are a couple of items to be frothing along with!
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rathkeale-a-small-irish-town-swollen-by-the-proceeds-of-crime-a6904141.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5580085/Ministers-unveil-plans-new-clampdown-illegal-travellers.html

Since when has it been racist to despise criminals? Do you make up your own meanings of words as you go along?

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 May 18 - 04:28 AM

Hee hee Dave. Well, while I was waiting for the kettle to boil I could try to calm them down by asking them both which football team they supported. No doubt they'd subside into a (boring) conversation about ManU, Chelsea or some such. Then a cuppa and the cake tin and we'd all be best pals. Once the Police arrived they could have some too...

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 18 - 06:12 AM

Sen, I'm coming to burgle your house tonight. Make sure your hubby is chained up somewhere safe, have plenty of cake in the tin (I love Victoria Sponge or Lavender & Apricot Cake), and PLEASE...loose-leaf tea (no nasty bags!)! See you about 2am! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 18 - 06:29 AM

"Jim my post above can easily be verified."
Read them all Iains - and dozens more - they prove exactly nothing
Your attitude is racist stereotyping based in the behaviour of individual cases - it is part of an already well underway process of ethnically cleansing an entire social group - denigrate them, cast them out of society, deprive them of the basic standards of living, electricity, water, sanitation, education - even the right to stop anywhere - and then point at them and show what animals they are - unfit to live
All standard stuff that sent half a million of them to Hitlers extermination camps along with Jews, Trades unionists - all the others unfit to live in "decent" society
Your bigotry is sick - it destroys people and is leading to their disappearance as a cultural group
I can't prevent your ignorant, inhuman attitude towards a severely deprivesd group of people, but I can request that you don't use this forum as a platform for your race-hatred
I knew many hundreds of these people - as singers who were willing to share their songs and allow me to record their lives and as personal friends - none of them came anywhere near your sickening description of them
If you can't suppress your inhumanity (these are human beings we are discussing) be good enough to keep it to yourself
You are behaving like one of Keith's sick set
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 18 - 06:41 AM

It is a tough one, Jim. If the statistics show that a particular group of people are over represented in any crime statistics it is difficult to deny it. However, like the Asian grooming scandals, what we should be asking is why there is such an over representation. We know it is not beciase certain groups of people are inherently bad and I am of the firm belief that most people are inherently good so we need to look for other reasons. I suspect that there are a host of other reasons rather than a single one and they include circumstance, targeting of ethnic groups and bad press. It is those issues and many others we should be addressing and if the current crime statistics highlight a particular issue in any area we should welcome it as an opportunity to improve someones lot rather than demonising a whole swathe of people.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 07 May 18 - 07:03 AM

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Iains - PM
Date: 06 May 18 - 04:03 PM

The common thread is travellers. Jim has a "rapport" with them shared by few others. As a group they contain a very visible minority with no respect for the law or for others property.

Iains has stated his Point of view clearly

Where in that statement does it give YOU the excuse to accuse him as follows "Your attitude is racist stereotyping based in the behaviour of individual cases - it is part of an already well underway process of ethnically cleansing an entire social group - denigrate them, cast them out of society, deprive them of the basic standards of living, electricity, water, sanitation, education - even the right to stop anywhere - and then point at them and show what animals they are - unfit to live"

Your Illogical personal attacks are another example of ranting for the sake of ranting
Bringing Keith into the thread where he has not posted is another example of personal attacks

Everone on this forum is entitled to express their point of view and the statement of "If you can't suppress your inhumanity (these are human beings we are discussing) be good enough to keep it to yourself"
is denying them the right to post based on their experience and reading material.

I look forward to your next round of personal attacks based again on things which poster have not posted

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Iains
Date: 07 May 18 - 07:16 AM

Well Jimmy those travellers you insist on supporting here are a few facts.
Suicide rate six times higher than the general population.(12% of all traveller deaths)
The highest infant mortality rate among any community(3.5 times normal)
The lowest educational achievement
The highest unemployment rate (84%)
only 13 per cent of Traveller children complete second-level education compared to 92 per cent in the settled community.
Travellers make up 0.6 per cent of the population yet account for 10 per cent of the male prisoner population and 22 per cent of the female prison population.
Almost 10 per cent of the people under probation supervision are Travellers,
Traveller males have a lifeexpectancy 15 years shorter than settled males, II years for traveller women.
Travellers with mental and physical health problems three times higher that the general population

If insisting on living in a caravan achieves the statistics above then I would suggest that perhaps travellers need to try living in houses like other people, stop bleating they are misunderstood and discriminated against and leave their anachronistic lifestyle behind. The statistics suggest that insisting on retaining a nomadic lifestyle will eventually exterminate them.

If I kept my children away from education I would be prosecuted, for travellers it is ignored. Why is that?

Perhaps the local authorities should take the children into care to guarantee them the health and educational resources that are devoted to the rest of the general population, or do the "uman rights" of travellers over ride concerns for the child?
    Does care automatically become labelled racist in such a situation, or is it simply a cop out by dis-interested councils afraid to grasp the nettle?

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 18 - 07:23 AM

I regard Ian's attack on friends as a personal attack - it is certainly racist stereotyping and is certainly an attitude that is leading to ethnic cleansing
If he - or yo - disagree with this you are entitled to disagree with it - hopefully with contrary facts
One thing I have noticed about Iain's contributions to this forum (apart from his persistent deisplays of lack of humanity - uneployed people whjo sponge off the state, fire victims who should sleep in the park rather than trespass on empty private property (not an actual statement but the logical conclusion of his arguments)
This particular argument arose from my description of a Traveller being executed for trespassing - Ian's response appears to be that he got what he deserved for being what he was
Is that what passes for humanity and decency with you people?
Of course everybody is entitled to their opinions, but on a public forum they are obliged to put them in a way as not to damage and destroy the lives of others - if they don't, this form becomes a platform for bigotry hand hatred - we already have enough of that without throwing the Travelling community into the mix
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 May 18 - 07:23 AM

BBC today,
"Gun violence on London's streets 'must stop'"

"Southwark Borough Commander, Simon Messinger, said the violence had "rightly caused concern" and the "fast-paced" investigation was "progressing all the time".
He said additional officers would be on patrol for the rest of the weekend, supported by armed response officers on motorcycles, dog units and air support.
London Mayor Sadiq Khan said he refused to accept that nothing can be done to stem the "appalling rise of violent crime" "

"Labour MP David Lammy tweeted: "Enough. Enough. My heart goes out to families grieving children and teenagers. So many shattered lives, families and communities.""

"Official statistics released in April showed the number of homicides in London had surged by 44% in the last year.
The number rose from 109 to 157 - eight of which were a result of the terror attacks at Westminster Bridge, London Bridge and Finsbury Park."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44026796

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 18 - 07:50 AM

It is difficult to argue with statistics, Iains. It is what you do with them that matters. Do you believe the dire picture they paint is because travelers are less human that you or I or is it because society is letting them down? I know what my choice would be and I hope yours is the same.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 May 18 - 07:53 AM

I can easily appreciate your point of view Jim. I got to know loads of serial burglars when I Prison Visited, and actually got quite fond of them. They each had a distinct personality, life-story and hopes/dreams. I would have been devastated if any one of them were killed while burgling. One could class them as 'criminals' or 'wasters' but they became 'people' to me.
But I can also understand the reactions of their (numerous) victims, losing hard-earned property and being terrified in their own homes.

Backwoodsman, husband has promised to behave himself regarding your imminent visit. But the current home-made cake on offer in the large tin is a coffee/walnut one. Hope that's acceptable? :)

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 07 May 18 - 08:01 AM

Jim
"I regard Ian's attack on friends as a personal attack - it is certainly racist stereotyping and is certainly an attitude that is leading to ethnic cleansing"

I regard Mudcatters as my friends .
Draw your own conclusions to that statement
After a' we are a' Jock Tamsons bairns

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 18 - 08:07 AM

Ah, coffee & walnut is my third choice, Sen - that'll do fine! :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 07 May 18 - 09:10 AM

Backwoodsman - how do you get all the good jobs

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 18 - 09:31 AM

By being a prospective burglar who makes friends with his very nice victims, and booking an appointment for the burglary! :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 07 May 18 - 09:51 AM

Obviously pays to be organised and have influence
Will you be posting a recommendation on Trivago

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 18 - 10:01 AM

LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 18 - 10:05 AM

"I regard Mudcatters as my friends ."
Depens who and what they are - I don't have any friens who persecute minorities
"Draw your own conclusions to that statement "
You are welcome to do the same
"After a' we are a' Jock Tamsons bairns "
My point exactly - my "bairns include 100s of the Travellers Iains is racially denigrating
You need to address what Iains said rather than tip-toeing around it
I'e veen th consequences of his attitude up close - not a pretty sight
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 May 18 - 10:16 AM

"Suicide rate six times higher than the general population.(12% of all traveller deaths)
The highest infant mortality rate among any community(3.5 times normal)
The lowest educational achievement
The highest unemployment rate (84%)
only 13 per cent of Traveller children complete second-level education compared to 92 per cent in the settled community.
Travellers make up 0.6 per cent of the population yet account for 10 per cent of the male prisoner population and 22 per cent of the female prison population.
Almost 10 per cent of the people under probation supervision are Travellers,
Traveller males have a lifeexpectancy 15 years shorter than settled males, II years for traveller women.
Travellers with mental and physical health problems three times higher that the general population

If insisting on living in a caravan achieves the statistics above then I would suggest that perhaps travellers need to try living in houses like other people, stop bleating they are misunderstood and discriminated against and leave their anachronistic lifestyle behind. The statistics suggest that insisting on retaining a nomadic lifestyle will eventually exterminate them.

If I kept my children away from education I would be prosecuted, for travellers it is ignored. Why is that?"

Which is all a serious indictment of the rest of society.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 18 - 10:22 AM

Spot on, Steve. It's all about whether you blame the circumstances or the victims. We have yet to hear from Iains which one he blames.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 May 18 - 10:31 AM

If trump arrives in july, it must be on the condition that no tax payers money whatsover is spent on that insignificant piece of trash. No security, no chauffer driven limos, no accomodation. It can use public transport or walk.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 18 - 10:51 AM

Can't see it happening SPB but it is a lovely idea :-)