Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?

Subject: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:09 AM

The old defensive "We don't all have beards and wear sandals" bit has just come up again on another thread, Fashionable Folk, re a somewhat fatuous article on current folk trends in The Spectator, whose author intros his piece by mentioning beards, tho sandals don't figure anyhow.

But let me just remark that I have had a beard [the present one anyhow] for 14 months now & it infinitely licks shaving every day; and I wear sandals when weather permits because they are comfortable and getting socks on at my age is no joke.

This has no connection whatever with the fact that I sing, and enjoy, and like reading about and contributing to forums on, folksongs. It is entirely independent.

Out of interest, how many of you likewise happen to have beards and/or wear sandals, but do not feel this in any way relevant to your "folkie" status?

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,Adam Smith
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:18 AM

I have a beard when I forget to shave for too long, which then becomes too uncomfortable to shave, which then becomes a beard until that becomes too itchy and then it all comes off again.

I have sandals when I'm somewhere nice and hot. Abroad mostly.

I have no patterned sweaters. I don't smoke a pipe. I enjoy real ale and real good whisky.

Can't think of any other stereotypes.

Oh - When I sing I neither cup my ear or stick a finger in.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: C-flat
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:18 AM

"This has no connection whatever with the fact that I sing, and enjoy, and like reading about and contributing to forums on, folksongs. It is entirely independent"

But can you be sure?

Maybe it's a genetic predisposition that you're unaware of...

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:20 AM

I do not have a beard and never shall have.

I do wear sandale sometimes.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:20 AM

I had a beard in my 20s and, latterly, one for the last 3 years - and on and off in between. The current one is permanent.

As for sandals - a must in the summer - no socks by the way. And I've played rock'n roll, funk and jazz in beard and sandals...

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: olddude
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:25 AM

Don't forget the pony tailed guys either ... LOL ...
well I am clean shaving but I once had a beard and for about 20 years had just a mustache ... got rid of the thing as I started to gray up

now sandals, pretty darn cold for them but walking on the beach yup still use em

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Green Man
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:28 AM

Every one knows you can't 'folk' properly without sandals on.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:31 AM

Has anyone noticed the folk stereotype is 'male'? ;)

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Gavin Paterson
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:36 AM

It is?

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: theleveller
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:36 AM

No beard and a cropped head. But I do wear sandals, especially at festivals, but not with socks. Oh well, at least my feet are folkie!

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:40 AM

I've had a beard since Easter 1967 when I was hitch-hiking round Ireland and cut my thumb on my (safety!)razor. I wear sandals most of the time nowadays because of damage to my feet caused by safety(!) boots - the only toe that's ok is the one that minor surgery. I drink real ale (and continental lagers, white beers, dunkels etc) and single malt whiskies. Don't smoke and hardly ever wear a jumper becausde it's too warm this far south (Chester). About the only time I cup my hand over my ear when I'm singing is if I'm in a choir and I'm too near the tenors.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:46 AM

I don't conform to any folk stereotype (geeky/nerdy type yes but folkie no).
I don't nor am I ever going to have a beard, I don't own a proper jumper, I hardly ever wear sandals coz they rub my feet if I don't wear tights/socks with them and I stick my fingers in both ears when I don't like what I'm hearing. ;)
I'm also under 30 and female. :P

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: John P
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:53 AM

A group of us who had front row seats at a folk concert were approached by a guy who started his conversation by saying, "Oh look at all the good folkies in their folkie clothes." After making this somewhat snarky comment, he went on to ask if one of us would take his back row seat so he could have a front row seat. Needless to say, he didn't get much traction. My question for him was, "Are we dressed like this because these are folkie clothes, or are these folkie clothes because we're wearing them?"

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Ernest
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:01 PM

Grown a beard 1n 1980: about six years after I started listening to folk music seriously, about 15 years before I began playing an instrument. Now tell me if that has any meaning.

Sandals when the weather/social circumstances allow it.

No alcohol, no smoking.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:16 PM

You forgot the Muesli, 2CV, CND badge and copy of the Guardian.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: RWilhelm
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:19 PM

Also, socks must be worn with sandals - no flip flops.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Gozz
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:20 PM

I have had at least some facial hair for all my adult life and the beard has been there for about 26/28 years. I don't think that I could cope with shaving now. I also wear sandals when the weather permits because it means that I have less clothes to wash and it is comfortable.

Yes I do wear folkie clothes as much as I can. I enjoy the lifestyle and make no bones about it. The thing is, it doesn't bother me what judgements others wish to make about me or the music I like. It is my life and I will live it my way.

If folk music were to become more acceptable to the mainstream public I would worry that someone in the "Music Industry" would start to get their greedy mits on all sorts of aspects of our music and the sub-culture that goes with it. If that happened, it would loose all it's spirit and reality. Do we really want to see this happen?

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Nobodys bard
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:37 PM

I've got a beard & sandals .... & a tank top .... can't stand folk music though ... 'orrible whiny stuff!


I'll get me coat ...

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:51 PM

Perhaps the idea is, this kind of thing (ie folk music, beards, sandals) puts-off the kind of people who are well worth putting-off.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:52 PM

Would that be a duffel coat then?

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Marje
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:12 PM

Yes, it's interesting, as LDT says, that the folk stereotype, in the UK at least, is generally male. When I said I was involved in folk music, someone once said they'd expected be to be a Julie Felix-type singer with a guitar on my knee, but that's an American model rather than a British one (and it's not me!).

I wonder, when people evoke the steroetype of the beard, sandals, pewter tankard, etc, what they think the female equivalent is?

For what it's worth, I'd say there is a high proportion of beards in most of the folkie community that I mix with (only among the men, you understand), and possibly a preference for sandals and tankards on some occasions. The Aran sweater and the finger-in-the-ear are almost extinct folkie traits, although they are still regularly alluded to by lazy journalists. But what do these people imagine distinguishes a folkie female? I'd really like to know.

Marje

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:25 PM

I so want a duffle coat!

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: acegardener
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:39 PM

Don't forget the red spotted hankerchief tied around the neck.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:49 PM

I've had a beard for 20 years but have never owned a pair of sandals other than cheap flip-flops for around-the-house wear.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Gurney
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:52 PM

I've had a beard since 1958, before I was a folkie. Delicate skin and shaving heavy whiskers = pimples.   Trimmed beard, though.
I don't habitually wear sandals.

I don't really understand why shaving caught on with such lasting popularity. Surely, bearded is what a man should look like. Caucasians, anyway.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:13 PM

Worn a beard most of my adult life, usually very close trimmed. Grew out of my last pair of sandals at the age of 12. Usually turn up at folk clubs in a business suit because I can't be arsed to get changed after work.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:17 PM

Brown boots rather than sandals for me. As for the beard, it grows of it's own accord unless I shave the lower part of my face - which seems as odd a thing to do as it would be to shave the top of my head. Which of course some people do.

But nobody ever seems to say "why do you grow hair on your scalp?" I've never understood that difference.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Gurney
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:34 PM

Brahn Boots? You can't go to a funeral in brahn boots!

Boots should be black, as God ordained!

Can't think where the second quote came from.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Tootler
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:50 PM

I have a beard. I've had mine for over 30 years in spite of my kids' occasional attempts to get me to shave it off. I grew it after my first folkie phase but long before the second one.

I mostly wear sandals these days because they are comfortable.

Female equivalent? Long straight hair - well over the shoulders - and baggy sweater.






Oh! and sandals, of course!

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:05 PM

Beard since September 1967. I did go to Cambridge folk festival in 1974, and had a flirtation with folk in I think late 1975, but mostly I had no interest in folk until about 1990.

Not keen on sandals.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:32 PM

Folk - yes; since the age of 14 (1975) with roots going back through Folk-Psychedelic-Pop since the age of 10 (it was the Strawbs who got me into dulcimers with Witchwood in 1971 touching on earlier native inspirations with Northumbrian Smallpipes & Highland Bagpipes - especially Piobaireachd, which isn't folk, though it is traditional) - although never exclusively: I have parallel passions for free-jazz, improv, electronica, Kraut, ethno, medieval, punk, metal, renaissance, post-punk, avant garde, prog, baroque, exotica, hip-hop, etc. etc.
Beard - yes; never been keen on shaving, bearded since 15 with a brief period shaven circa 1999-2002, aged 38-40.
Sandals - yes; and I wear them with boot socks in winter, regardless of the weather, but if things get too extreme I wear my Doc Martens, but never without my Barbour; an essential pairing - like I only drink tea with fish & chips.

The connection? An inner yearning for the primal wilderness.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,Van
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:34 PM

Alopecia universalis so no chance of a beard, but I wear sandals as soon as I think it is warm enough and change to shoes/boots when it becomes too cold. Still sandal weather in Kent at the moment. At least for me.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:38 PM

Lemme see, now. When I was singing most actively back in the late 1950s and 1960s (lots if coffeehouses and college concerts) I usually wore a pair of slacks and a shirt, pair of shoes (not sandals). Clean. Me too. Bathed, clean shaven, recent haircut. Didn't smoke dope. Sometimes for concerts or other gigs (banquets, concert at the Seattle Public Library, etc.), I often wore a pair of grey flannel slacks, a cotton turtleneck (rather than a dress shirt, because I didn't want a tie-tack scratching the back of my guitar), and a navy blue blazer (plastic rather than brass buttons—again to avoid scratching my guitar).

I did have a beard for about a year and a half. But that was when I was working for the telephone company in the early 1980s.

For gigs these days (including folk festivals, occasional concerts, and such), I still dress neatly. Informally if it's a folk festival, suit or blazer for concerts (I get a few early music buffs in my audiences, who might be turned off if I came out in bib overalls. They come to hear the songs, not to marvel at how "folkie" I am).

You don't have to look grubby to sing folk songs and ballads.   CLICKY.   Or for that matter, CLICKY.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: MikeL2
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:55 PM

hi

No beard......

Do wear sandals; but they are proper walking sandals. Wear em in the summer without socks and only in the house in winter with socks......instead of slippers.

I'm not grumpy, so folk off !!%%&!!

cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 04:56 PM

This seems to be another of those things where it makes a difference which side of the Atlantic you live...

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Joe_F
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 06:26 PM

I have been a folkie (in the sense of singing songs sung by people known to me) since 1939.
I have had a beard, without interruption, since 1965.
I wear sandals in a narrow range of circumstances, but my usual footwear is slippers indoors & boots outdoors.

There was another thread about this a while ago. The most plausible suggestion on it, IMO, was that the common cause is independence of mind. People who are willing to be musical deviants are likely to be willing to be sartorial & grooming deviants.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 06:57 PM

Beard, but only so there is some hair around my head, as most of what was on top has long gone!

Mrs Hound, who loves her folk just as much as I, says she likes a beard, but has yet to grow one herself. She does do sandals in the summer, but I'm more of a boots or trainers man myself.

I will confess to owning a pair of sandals, but would of course only wear them accompanied by an arran sweater.

Not entirely comfortable with the concept of being a musical or sartorial deviant though!

John

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 08:17 PM

Having HAD to shave daily for fourteen years , as soon as I was promoted to Mister I stopped ! And I wears Neckscarves and waistcoats
and Desert boots rather than sandals . And Hats ! AND a Ponytail !

And I AM a Folkie ! LOL

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Gurney
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 10:54 PM

Leadfingers, do tell us what you were before you were promoted to Mister! I was Master, but I didn't have to shave then.

The only other thing that I could think of was demister.;-)

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 02:40 AM

"Having HAD to shave daily for fourteen years , as soon as I was promoted to Mister I stopped"

Um, was that when you stopped cross dressing?

Sorry - couldn't resist...

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:46 AM

I had been on the folk scene for twenty years before I grew my first beard (thought that I might look scruffy facing the public at work while growing one until then).
Wear sandals in the summer, never with socks, but more than often it is trainers.
Used to smoke a pipe as well as tabs and cigars until I stopped smoking thirty years ago and drank real ale until I knocked beer on the head five months ago.
The best one I heard was a couple of years ago when a theatrical friend of mine introduced me to some of his troupe by saying "Dave writes the Folk column for The Post; but you wouldn't think it to look at him!"

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: mandotim
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:52 AM

Re the thread title; if there is a connection between your beard and your sandals, you either have a very long beard or very short legs.
Tim (bearded since 1973, sandal wearer in the summer, when I am excused socks until the weather turns cold.)

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:25 AM

There is a very similar piece of nonsense in the current Cotswold Life magazine, which I happened to glance at while I was staying down there recently. The author was complaining that a friend, a music journalist, had given him a Richard Thompson CD. He believed that his friend must have assumed he had gone yokel (not his words) since moving to the Cotswolds and would therefore be interested in folk music (never mind that RT is an internationally acclaimed songwriter and guitarist). In the course of the article he writes about folk song and folk singers in a way which suggests he has not listened to or seen either.

It's perhaps to be expected that a journalist in a hurry will resort to stereotypes, if only to get their message across with the minimum of words. It's less forgiveable in a lengthy and presumably thought-out magazine article. What I find annoying is that the stereotypes are at least 40 years out of date - now that is lazy journalism. No journalist writing about contemporary popular music would refer to "beat combos" or "mop-heads". If they're going to use stereotypes, let them at least be accurate and up-to-date ones.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,Raymond Greenoaken
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:41 AM

When I'm performing I usually wear a suit. Because that's what Seamus Ennis did: a folk musiciian, I believe.

No beard. Not now, not never.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:48 AM

'If they're going to use stereotypes, let them at least be accurate and up-to-date ones.'

Now come on Howard, you can't make a statement like that without giving us an up-to-date stereotype to work with!

In a previous life I ran my own estate agency business (No, no, please don't hate me! there are some honest ones out there) and used to take great delight in the number of people that said 'you don't look like an estate agent'

Of course, the big question is do I look like a Folkie?

John

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: theleveller
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:05 AM

Waistcoats! I've got lots of waistcoats - wear them every day with collarless shirts. Mrsleveller was watching Edwardian Farm the other day and swore that they'd raided my wardrobe. My, how we laughed!

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:46 AM

Anyone with a beard and sandals, but with no connection between them is obviously not all there.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 06:41 AM

"Female equivalent? Long straight hair - well over the shoulders - and baggy sweater."

well I don't conform to that either. lol
I'm more of a shirt dress or smocktop dress thing with tights/leggings, denim jacket, hat and boots or trainers.
Although sometimes I'll choose and era and dress to that like regency or edwardian just for fun.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:21 AM

I've had a beard since 1981. I used to go back and forth between that and clean shaven. Don't wear sandals. I've always been a folkie fan and performer. I haven't worn jeans in years.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: BobKnight
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:59 AM

I've never had a beard, and I don't wear sandals. However, in recent weeks I have been seen about town wearing an old pair of trainers with the toe-caps cut off.(no sandals) This is due to the fact that I had both big toenails removed and can't wear shoes for the time being. (ouch)

If asked about it I offer the explanation that I'm trying to start a new fashion trend called, "Wino-Chic."

Or... I've just come back from Paris where I visited an exhibition called, "The Gestapo Experience."

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 08:25 AM

No sandals since I was about 3. The odd pair of espadrilles etc, absolutely no socks. Beard for about 30 years, didn't dare shave it off cos I met my wife when I had one! But when I looked in the mirror and saw Harold Shipman, that was it, off.

Her indoors has had a Citroen Dyane since 1973, which is nearly a 2CV. She had a real 2CV in the 80s until it got too much hard work winding it up in the winter (anyone who's had one will know what I mean). Neither of these vehicles saved a single whale or .bIt had nothing to do with stereotypes. Neither of us have ever possessed pewter tankards - straight glass please duck!

I found a slide from 1971 where I am wearing something alarmingly like an Aran sweater. A little old lady knitted it for me and it was jolly warm, OK?

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: olddude
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 08:28 AM

For the gals, don't forget all the handmade jewelery,   turquoise is big here, ya know the silver with a big blue rock stuck in it ... or the hand made beads ... Love it, turns me on

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 08:32 AM

While messing up my previous post (blooming netbook) I was thinking that an early portrayal of a stereotypical female folkie can be found in Lucky Jim by Kingsley Amis - Margaret, Jim's girfriend anyone? Wooden chunky beads and all. No "Celtic" earrings there though.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 08:33 AM

Folkies wearing beards & sandals
Fa la la la la la la la la.
Jovial drunks, not football vandals
Fa la la la la la la la la.
Lo, our be-er stained apparel
Fa la la la la la la la la.
As we broac another barrel
Fa la la la la la la la la.

Just to be seasonal!

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: olddude
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 08:35 AM

And you gents gotta have a pocket watch and a chain. And while I am at it pants with a watch pocket in them. None of these newfangled store bought, battery powered sissy watches. A wind up pocket watch. so what if it runs slow or fast and you are late for your gig cause ya forgot to wind it. It is tradition !

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 08:42 AM

Good call, Olddude. What the **** - it's right twice a day ain't it?

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 08:47 AM

I have a pocket watch...and one on a necklace ;)

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: olddude
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 09:01 AM

A woman with a pocket watch on a necklace ... I am in love

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Alan Day
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 09:09 AM

I went to a Barn Dance in the seventies and every male had a beard, the next day I shaved mine off.
Sorry but have a close look at women the next time you go folking, long dresses or skirts, flat shoes (mostly multi coloured).You can recognise a folkie male or female a mile off.
Al

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: olddude
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 09:11 AM

Someone forgot to mention shaws on the women folkies ... no coats a Shaw only

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 09:47 AM

Deck the Hall revisited, I take it Nigel. Very singable.

Beards and sandals, boots of leather
Fa la la la la la la la la.
Same old tune goes on for ever
Fa la la la la la la la la.
Squeeze that box and scrape the fiddle
Fa la la la la la la la la.
Down the side and up the middle
Fa la la la la la la la la.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: stallion
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 10:00 AM

No ones mentioned the Pewter tankard hanging from the belt? Is it just the beards and sandals that have survived? I have a beard 'cos I am an idle sod and wear sandals in summer (Nike). Pewter tankard is in the back yard full of mouldy stuff (told you I was an idle sod)although I only use it at home, when someone cleans it for me.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Mooh
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 10:01 AM

Beard and sandals most of my adult life. Both are more comfortable than the alternatives. No connection to folkie-ism whatsover.

I also wear socks with the sandals, except in summer.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Marje
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 10:01 AM

You're right, of course, Alan, about the flat shoes. Indeed, on more than one occasion I've met a folky male acqaintance accompanied by a new female, wearing high heels, and I've thought to myself, "That'll never last, her shoes are wrong", and I've been right, it didn't last.

Floaty skirts and dresses are common at dances but less so at concerts, clubs or sessions, where there may be nothing much to distinguish the female folkie from the general public. A general hippiness of attire (bright colours, velvet, patchwork, "ethnic" styles, etc) is acceptable but by no means the norm.

Long hair for folkie women is a lot less common than it used to be, possibly because the girls who wore it like this in the 1970s (as I did) are now getting grey, and long grey hair can look a bit scary and witch-like. Of course lots of women dye their hair, but long dyed hair can look a lot more artificial than a shorter style.

At a folk club last night, I had a quick glance around the room, and more than half the men had facial hair of some sort. That's very different from the wider population, and I'd say it's the most distinctive thing about the appearance of the folky community. That and the flat shoes.

But these observations come from inside the folk scene. What I'd like to know is how the lazy journalist who's never been near a folk event would try to typify the female folkie.

Marje

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 10:12 AM

After 4 years in the British Army, shaving every day, I grew a beard when I was discharged in 1968 and have had one ever since, I drink malt whisky and real ale but I have never worn sandals in my life, flip flops mind when I was in a hot country.

I suppose I'm just a scruffy drunk, proper folkie that is.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Van
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 10:33 AM

Just heading off to my local in the pissing rain but still in my sandals. A man must retain his folkie credentials!

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 10:52 AM

Yeah, actually I do own a pair of sandals. I wear them on the beach.

At this time, I also have a small beard, just around the chops though, ala Mike Gatting but younger and far better looking.

However... Some mates heard I was playing at a venue recently and although knew I was a musician, (of sorts, occasionally....) had only heard me on albums, never live. So a few turned up. Took the piss for months afterwards as the "compere" managed the full monty. Beard, lumpy pullover, beige shorts, socks and sandals.

Bless the old bugger.......

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Folknacious
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 12:08 PM

From this thread so far, I think the connection is overwhelmingly and irrevocably proven.

Now, shall we move on to Aran sweaters and/or Laura Ashley dresses?

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 12:37 PM

I'd love a laura ashley dress but they are out of my price range. *sigh*

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,crowsister
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 12:47 PM

"but they are out of my price range. *sigh*"

Heh! Ditch the Laura Ashley DLT and go for the real thing - lots of vintage shops popping up all over the place now. Or you could always hit the charity shops, I've found oodles of LauraA gems among the racks of pastel Nanna jumpers. In fact I've even found some really neat vintage. Pity I'm too fat to fit any of it now. All bagged up waiting for me to, ahem, regain my figure...

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,cs
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 12:58 PM

Oops, LDT - sorry to mix you up with that hairy old DJ! Must be summat to do with this thread and beards!

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:19 PM

hi

I hope you don't mind if I go off the thread topic briefly.

I used to play rugby ( which does have some connections with folk clubs) and during my captaincy we were playing away in Liverpool and as we were warming up we noticed that nearly every player in the opposition sported a beard.

Our then Chairman who never missed a game was as usual sitting on his shooting stick ( !!!!) and as we ran on to the pitch to play he stopped me and said.....who are we playing today ??? The 12 Apostles ?? None of them played in sandals !!!! lol

I don't know if any of them were folkies but one guy was apparently a poet and was wont occasionally during the game to go wandering around quoting verses from his own poetry.

Ah those were the days....

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 09:53 AM

never worn sandals since I wuz at skool

And WON'T never niever!

Beard? Yea because I am lazy.

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 12:45 PM

Aran sweaters? Haven't seen one in years. And in fact I can't remember them being a common item. Maybe it's different in the States,what with the Clancy Brothers influence.

As has been pointed out, the typical wear for folk-males tends to include a waistcoat.   And the collarless shirt, if he can find one. (Drift - since ties have more or less vanished, apart from funerals, court appearances, job interviews and the House of Commons and other places frequented by Suits, how come shirts without collars are so hard to come by?)

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 03:29 PM

Alan Bennett said he almost became a vicar because whenever he looked in the mirror he saw the face of a cleric looking back. Many of us are victims of genre physiognomy.
For years I had close cropped hair and dressed casually, now I'm wild and bearded it's important to dress immaculately, tweed, silk, good shoes. My wife wouldn't endure hairyness and sloppy clothing.

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: Darowyn
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 03:54 AM

There have been lots of people posting to say whether or not they are bearded, sandal-shod or whatever, but nobody seems to have discussed the connection so far.
As I see it there are many youth cults based around music genres, where the music style of choice leads into a series of connected lifestyle choices.
So Punks are spiky, Goths are pale and wear black clothes and eyeliner, Metallers have long hair, skinheads go bald at 18 etc.
The object is twofold. Firstly it is to express rebellion against 'convention'- a necessary part of adolescence. Secondly it is to demonstrate group membership and be able to be recognised as a sub-cultural group by other members of it.
It often goes a long with a feeling of being a culturally superior, but persecuted minority.
As far as I know, there are only three adult music cults which involve 'dressing the part.'
There are Country Music/line dancing, Jazz (particularly Trad), and Folk. All of these are pariah genres, looked down upon and derided by the general public.
So the question is, if you look like a folkie, is that because you are a Peter Pan, perpetually adolescent, or because you are a genre snob, dressing as a persecuted but secretly superior minority, or just a wierdo?
Answers on a posting please?
Cheers
Dave.
(With no indication of how I look, or whether I'm a wierdo)
P.S.
A sense of humour will be appreciated, this is intended to amuse, not to cause apoplexy! (Whatever happened to apoplexy?)
D

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 11:15 AM

how come shirts without collars are so hard to come by?
No problem in London, most tailors around the law courts sell them. I have a couple that are very handy for going out after work as I can take off both collar and tie.

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: olddude
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 11:24 AM

easier thing is just paint your body whatever color ya want for the shirt. Then ya don't need to worry about no collars ..

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: olddude
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 11:25 AM

Heck ya can even paint on a tie for the Sunday going to meetin

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: Marje
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 11:26 AM

Shirts without collars were very common in the days when the collars were detached for washing or cleaning. I don't know that anyone still does this? I can remember my Dad sending his collars off by post every week, and they'd be returned to him all clean and starched.

So I suppose the easy-care shirts with permanent collars have largely pushed the collarless type out of the market.

Marje

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: stallion
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 01:55 PM

but what about the pewter tankards?

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 07:46 PM

In the forecourt gaily prancing
Fa la la la la la la la la.
Some may claim they're "Morris dancing"
Fa la la la la la la la la.
At their belts hang pewter tankards
Fa la la la la la la la la.
They are dancers, not just drunkards
Fa la la la la la la la la.

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: pictii
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 01:33 AM

I've worn sandals for most of my lyfe.....without socks !!

and my beard is now a whyter shade of whyte than what it was afore I once wore sandals..
and the traditional songs that my grannies once sang to me\
did not require the wearing of sandals nor the sprouting of facial hair..

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 03:52 AM

At their belts hang pewter tankards
Fa la la la la la la la la.
They are dancers, not just drunkards

Thankyou for your restraint.

I used to go off on one quite regularly about how I'd Never In My Life seen folkies sporting flowery waistcoats, spotty kerchiefs, pewter tankards, sandals with socks, multi-coloured trousers ect ect. Then I went to my first folk festival. Oh.

I think we're describing the display plumage of Homo Festivalensis rather than everyday wear (if anyone reading this goes to work in the morning wearing a spotty kerchief and a pewter tankard... um, what job is that, then?) But on the matter of beards, which clearly are a bit more permanent, if I mentally look round the male regulars at the local singaround I can only see one or two.

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 04:24 AM

I used to work in IT where beards and sandals were the norm. I don't remember anybody in a spotty kerchief and pewter tankard, but they wouldn't have been out of place. Anybody in a suit and tie was either a sales rep or worked for a bank.

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 05:45 AM

Fiddler's ready, elbow slanted
Fa la la la la la la la la.
On the tables tankards (are) planted
Fa la la la la la la la la.
Squire in waistcoat goes before us
Fa la la la la la la la la.
Dancers leap then join the chorus
Fa la la la la la la la la.

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 08:44 AM

As we swing our sticks of briar
Fa la la la la la la la la.
Catch my nuts & sing much higher
Fa la la la la la la la la.
Side supporters are our choir
Fa la la la la la la la la.
(they)Rush the bar, then hog the fire.
Fa la la la la la la la la.

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 09:17 AM

I have a beard, and my first beard had a folk music connection in that it was inspired by Peter, Paul and Mary; although, if my memory serves me correctly, I don't think Mary ever sported a beard!

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: Green Man
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 10:44 AM

I been a wild folkie for many a year,
I do cut my toenails but don't cut my hair,
I drink from a tankard along with the best
And these stuck-up non folkies are an in yer arse pest

And its Aren't folkies nice folk
They play music by ear
They wear such strange clothing
Dictated by year.

I went to a folk club I used to frequent
But I sat on my tankard and I got it all bent
I looked for a hammer for fixing you see
then the beer it caught up and I went for a wee.

And its aren't folkies nice folk
They Play music by ear
They use their bent tankards
To not drink the beer.

Im told I look wierd with my beard and my socks
I shouldn't wear sandles and the kilt it just shocks
I cant give a reason for liking my style
I won't wear a suit, rather I'd run a mile

And its Arent Folkies nice Folk
You know its been said
That wearing smart clothing
Would make them reviled

Why does a label make us stand apart
My socks and my kilt dont make me a tart.
I love to go singing and have a few beers
We're harmless I say so ally all your fears.

And its aren't Folkies Nice folk
Along with the rest
Except for this one
Who's a squeezeboxing pest.

Dad daaaaa

Written entirely by ear and on the spur of the moment to the tune of the wild rover.

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: Green Man
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 06:42 AM

BUMP!

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: mattkeen
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 05:38 AM

Much to my annoyance my facial hair has never been profuse enough tohave a full beard - I never wanted one but did wish for the manly optiion of having one.

I did sport a Los Lobos style goatee for a while but developed the irritating habit of flicking my tongue at the bits round the corner of my mouth, so it had to go

I do own and love sandals but they must be work without socks (this may change in retirement though that is still 12 years off)

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 05:46 AM

I am long retired [apart from very occasional theatre reviewing], but still wear my Clark's sandals without socks, which I agree with you mattkeen is how they MUST be worn.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 05:49 AM

Yes he is my best soulmate and friend and I love him for it.

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: JHW
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 06:58 AM

Count me in. I grew a beard form age 19 cos I thought I looked to young. (Maybe it has outlived that usefulness)
I also have from donkeys ago several pairs of handmade sandals from Terry Brown nr York and in summer if I don't have walking boots on its usually the all terrain Merrels.
And I've been going to Folk Clubs since I was 19, perhaps there is a mutual disposition to these traits. I'm also a veggie and you might expect veggies to wear sandals.
I get to fewer Folk Clubs but Beard and Sandals will still be there when I give up on it altogether.
Only ever had one White Arran Jumper but that WAS a Folk Accessory.

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 08:08 AM

yup I'm a beardy Folk Singer. But not worn sandals since I was a kid. When I first got into Folk Music properly around 33 years ago, beards, lumberjack shirts, courdory trousers, even sandals were rather proficient in Folk clubs. but now it's all kinds of mainly casual fashions, and I haven't seen a finger in the ear for some time. I wear boots by the way! ;)

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: Green Man
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 07:51 AM

Ah, the finger in the ear, do we not all miss it.

The sight of a bearded person wearing sandles, with a tankard in hand and a finger in the ear, singing songs about dead sailors (in a slightly nasal tone).

This is what folk is all about.

:)

The problem is holding a tankard and using the same hand inserting a finger in the ear is extremely risky and may result in beer loss.

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 08:32 AM

I opened my Pottery shop at age 21 and runing a business and getting people I hired to do what was asked of them seemed easier if I "Looked " old enough to be requesting anything .I had hair on my face from 18 till around 34 . Really I was happier with bare feet but playing square dances and bars that wouldnt do .It was bib & brace or overalls and a good pair of red wings . Oh yes and from 28 onwards; always a bandana to keep the sweat out of my face since I was balding at 20 . You cant wipe your face with clay on your hands or a banjo so something clean to wick the sweat . (Much cleaner then a hat but) still people thought I was a dope dealer . I have always been pretty strongly anti medication of any kind so that was the misconception that I got .. The good news is arty types can ware anything to a gallery opening !! All the best , Guy .

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 08:34 AM

Dead sailors and dead miners slightly nasal and slightly off key, that's proper folk that is.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 08:40 AM

"slightly nasal and slightly off key"
I thought that was x-factor contestants. :P

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 09:20 AM

I think I will just claim that 100 if I may.

"Folk music is music that accompanies a raffle".

Martin Simpson

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: Hesk
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 09:37 AM

Bearded, sandals, pewter tankard.

Beard and sandals from Art College days, tankard from folk influences, much better than plastic glasses at festivals.
I,m glad the folk fashion for Horn tankards has died out though.

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,Ripov
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 12:00 PM

How do you know x-factor contestants sing out of tune - isn't their pitch adjusted by an "auto-tune" so you don't know what note they're singing?

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 10:47 AM

If they *have* to use auto tune...then they must be out of tune. ;)

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,best bet
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 07:46 PM

Is it just me or have folkies never got past the beards,sandles and not forgiving Dylan for going electric?

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 08:05 PM

"From: Hesk - PM
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 09:37 AM

Bearded, sandals, pewter tankard."
Fa la la la la la la la la.
Folk-fest pass on day-glo lanyard
Fa la la la la la la la la.
See the beer 'pot' over belt sag!
Fa la la la la la la la la.
'Rise up singing' in your book bag
Fa la la la la la la la la.

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 11:23 PM

No, best bet, it's just you.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 27 Nov 10 - 10:25 PM

The thing is of course that much 'folk' music and folksong has beards and sandals.

You know how the guy who wrote A Man For All seasons - Robert Something said he wanted to avoid 'gadzookery' in the language. In folksong - even modern songs written 'in the tradition' - there is often a certain reaching out to archaicism in the language.

The garb is really just showing a unified approach. I was watching O'Hooley and Tidow the other night - I was thinking the collarless shirts and waistcoats were a sort of nod in the direction 19th century artisans.