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A suggestion - splitting off non-music
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Subject: A suggestion From: Ed Pellow Date: 31 Oct 99 - 05:56 PM Apologies if I'm going over old ground here. The available search options make it difficult to find out if this has been discussed before. Whilst I've been aware of the DT for several years, it's only recently that I've begun to read and occasionally contribute to Mudcat. Looking through current, and past threads there seem to be two fairly distinct categories - the threads that discuss folk music and the threads that 'chat' about anything that any member feels like talking about... Personally, I'm only interested in the music threads. Obviously, lots of people seem to enjoy the 'small talk' type of thread, and that's fair enough. I'm not a HTML expert, but would it be possible to split things, and have two different pages: one for folk music discussions, and one for general chat? It would certainly make things easier for me. Any thoughts? Ed
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Susanne (skw) Date: 31 Oct 99 - 06:08 PM Why separate them? I'm grateful for the 'BS', because I tend to go for the music threads too. But if you get into one you don't like you just go back and leave it alone. Where's the problem? Also, having two separate lists just puts an extra strain on Max, and I suspect he can do without that. - Susanne |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 31 Oct 99 - 06:21 PM In fact you can't draw a line between the chat threads and the music threads, really - dig around a bit and you will see that one sort turns into each other.
You get someone saying about how something makes them feel bad or good, and someone else comes back with a song that seems to tie in with that, and someone else asks a question about the song, or talks about some variant they came across.
I'd hate to see an attempt to break it down anyway - what keeps this site sane as well as interesting is that the two sides of it balance out each other. Yin and Yang or something
It's like the chat you get between songs or tunes in a session - they might be about the music itself, they might be about the ideas suggested by the words of a song, they might be about some personal criusis, or politics, or religion, or weather... And then someone sets off another tune or song. In any case, how would you define this thread? |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Áine Date: 31 Oct 99 - 07:42 PM McGrath -- Couldn't have put it any better myself! What is blues or folk music but an expression of feelings about crisis, politics, religion, love, or even weather. When I make spaghetti, I don't buy tomatoes at one store, pasta at another, herbs at another, etc. I go to a market where I can find most of what I need. That's how I feel about the 'Cat -- I can find folks here to talk with about most anything, and that helps me express myself in language, which in turn helps me express myself in music. Sorry, Ed, but I don't think half a 'Cat would be as good as the whole crazy mix! |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: SeanM Date: 31 Oct 99 - 08:41 PM This issue seems to come up about every two months or so, and the prevailing opinion seems to always be one of "live and let live". The basic summary of reasons given for not separating were stated nicely by McGrath. Thread creep is so prevalent, that any thread that starts out as "music only" tends to devolve into "BS", and vice versa. It's also been stated on several occasions that the social side of the 'cat is what keeps (or draws) a lot of the 'catters here. Unfortunately, we've lost some very valuable contributors due to the off-music-topic posts, but we've also gained several others. It all seems to balance out. And as has also been stated, a large number of the 'catters seem to feel uncomfortable with the idea of splitting the 'Cat into "music" and "BS" boards. In any case, feel free to do what you feel you need to do. I usually scan threads to see if they contain anything of interest to me, and it takes maybe half an hour a day to scan everything. Some people apparently read every single thread in the 'Cat, but that's not for me... and it sounds like it isn't for you either. Either way, welcome to the 'Cat, and enjoy. M |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Brakn Date: 31 Oct 99 - 09:20 PM I usually look for threads that are requesting lyrics that I may be able to help with or others posting lyrics or info about songs or writers that may be of interest. I'm not really interested in "what do mudcatters have for breakfast threads etc". You just have a look and decide yourself. |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Rick Fielding Date: 31 Oct 99 - 10:00 PM Naturally I like the music threads, but (and here's where Mudcat is unique) I've read some of the most articulate and well thought out opinions on a multitude of subjects here....FROM the perspective of people who rank alternative music highly in their lives. Generally the folks are more considerate and rarely do people push the "buttons" that make the more emotional catters "lose it". It happens occasionally, but even that can be fun, as a ton of folks jump in as peacemakers. As far as "personal" posts where folks share thoughts about themselves...I really like that as well. I'd infinitely rather know what makes people who share my interest in music tick, than watch TV or do tax returns. Just the fact that so many new mudcatters have joined us in the last few months would indicate that they've found something worthwhile. Rick |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: TheMuse Date: 31 Oct 99 - 10:24 PM Aine Couldn't agree more with your comparison to a "market" for all things. That's what Mudcat is all about. Music when you need it, friends when you need them, a laugh when you need it . . . you name it, you can probably find it here. Just "cruise" the threads and pick one! |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: katlaughing Date: 31 Oct 99 - 10:34 PM We have had many discussions about this. For me the bottom line was the last one I remember when Max, The Creator, spoke, saying that he likes the BS and that the Mudcat is what we make it. Most of us tout our love of diversity. Diversity seems to be a BIG part fo the Cat. If we begin to segregate we lose that and with it the unique balance which makes this the best site on the web. As has been pointed out in the past, to some of the most strident who don't like BS: you pick and choose which threads you read, simply pass by the ones that don't interest you. |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: lamarca Date: 31 Oct 99 - 10:47 PM One problem is that sometimes lyric or tune requests sink off the thread list without ever getting much of an answer. While I know that I can just go back to mine and "Refresh" to bring them to the top of the list again, I think a lot of folks new to Mudcat don't know that and get dropped off before enough people see their requests. They are also less likely to be members and understand or be able to use the "Trace" function, or even the "Lyr. Req:" prefix, etc. Maybe us regulars could periodically peruse the threads and "bump up" new song requests for a few days if the general flow of balderdash seems to be burying them too quickly... |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: katlaughing Date: 31 Oct 99 - 10:49 PM lamarca, I think there are a few of us who do that. Good idea and just plain nice...keeps 'em coming back for more. |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: DonMeixner Date: 31 Oct 99 - 10:53 PM Not surprisingly I'm with The Muse on this one. The Cat is my one stop shop for all my folkmusic and cultural needs (Except for Yogurt ofcourse). I can get into a discussion about instrument making with Catspaw and have it turn into a discussion on the merits of Pat Sky as a song writer. It ain't broke, lets don't fix it. Don |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: _gargoyle Date: 01 Nov 99 - 12:10 AM GREAT idea ED!!!!!
Watch out .... you will now get "banged" by the "gang of twelve."
Once it was as you described.... and then the "interloppers arrived."
Let MAX have his babble and profits.....let Susan and dick...continue to archieve folk tunes/lyrics. |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: _gargoyle Date: 01 Nov 99 - 05:49 AM Threads once extended for 3 days (at one time even 7) but as the music grew less and the gossip more it evolved into the current chat room approach. |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Jeri Date: 01 Nov 99 - 07:44 AM I love the freedom of this forum, and the way people don't get complained at for going off topic - much like a face to face conversation. People start out talking about one thing and if the talk's really good, it pings off in all directions. Nobody says "I don't want us to discuss that, lets stick to the original point." (Well, they try, but it doesn't work very well.) If someone doesn't like the direction of a thread, they can wait a while, try to introduce something they want to talk about, or walk away and find a more interesting conversation. It seems all Ed wants is a way to tell which threads are likely to be about music only. He definitely did NOT say the non-music stuff should go away. The prefixes will help identify music threads, as will the titles. |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Micca Date: 01 Nov 99 - 08:18 AM I agree with Don Meixner with the corollory If it aint broke don't fix it Prefix it. |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: MMario Date: 01 Nov 99 - 09:16 AM YOur view of the forum can still be set to 3 days or 7 days, or 3 freaking years for that matter. A discussion of this type came up in another forum I read. After MUCH discussion,back-biting, name-calling and flaming in general; the general consensus was that the majority PREFERRED getting their imfo from people they "knew" more then getting it from an anonymous source. And that meant there HAD to be off topic conversation. As was stated repeatedly -- no one was FORCING anyone to read the threads, and some of the biggest objectors had DETAILED knowledge of what was going on in the off topic threads - which meant they had to have SOME interest in reading them. And - it was pointed out, if the format of the forum was SO disturbing, they were free not to use it at all, or to go elsewhere. oddly enough, the alternative sites (there were several) are STILL almost inactive, and postings to them are primarily SPAM, neither conversation or "data". |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: katlaughing Date: 01 Nov 99 - 09:32 AM gg- around ninety-five postings to BS threads out of his last two hundred postings |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Date: 01 Nov 99 - 09:43 AM He does post more music than most and I find his humor cute. But I think this Ed Pellow may be one of his many disguises. |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: catspaw49 Date: 01 Nov 99 - 09:47 AM Well gee Kat, that seems very well balanced to me......Obviously the boy has a keen perception of what is important and tries to nicely balance his postings. A real "all-round" kinda' guy. Glad we have his comments well "archieved." Spaw |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Rick Fielding Date: 01 Nov 99 - 10:06 AM Gee, Ed Pellow seems like a polite, articulate fellow. Let's see if Ed gets back into the discussion. I kinda like him. |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Bert Date: 01 Nov 99 - 02:50 PM Re:....But I think this Ed Pellow may be one of his many disguises.... Nah, can't be, As Rick says, this Ed guy 'seems like a polite, articulate fellow' It one thing to have strong and unpopular opinions but I just wish he wouldn't keep lying about Max making a profit. |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Melodeon Date: 01 Nov 99 - 03:17 PM I agree, if a thing isn't broken, don't fix it. but then it's a bit like people who complain about TV programmes, no one forces them to watch.I'm not a musician but i have come to love Mudcat for the friendly atmosphere and I would like to thank gg for the good advice he gave me on my BS thread on giving up smoking. I can't say I've noticed a gang of twelve, more like a gang of 100. Viv
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: katlaughing Date: 01 Nov 99 - 03:21 PM Yea, Bert, we can all see that he is just rolling in it. Wasn't that a Lambourgini I heard, on Mudcat radio, revving up outside in Max's parking space? Oh, and when is he going to take the Lear jet out for a spin, again? I could meet him in Jackson Hole, if he'll give me a little "flash" money. They don't like to let you in if you can't flash a few bills at 'em, ya know? BTW, his new Rolex looked really nice in the video, too. Man....don't let the word get out, though. If the big record companies find out how well bankrolled he is running a "chat" and selling folk recordings, we'll see a massive and hostile takeover! Mum's the word! Shhhhh!!! |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Melodeon Date: 01 Nov 99 - 03:54 PM Sorry, I meant to add that if you look on the "New Catters" thread you will see Ed there, so perhaps there is just a tiny bit of paranoia, but then when they're out to get you..... Viv |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: bseed(charleskratz) Date: 01 Nov 99 - 04:28 PM Gargoyle, we all know Genghis Khan would have outlawed BS threads (just as the Soviet Union tried to suppress Tuvan throat singing--and as the Christian missionaries to the Sandwich Islands outlawed the human body). Find another cause, my friend...or at least stand up for your principles and boycott BS threads. --seed |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Ed Pellow Date: 01 Nov 99 - 04:41 PM Rick, Thanks for the compliment - politeness and articulateness, (what an ugly word) are virtues that I'm more than pleased to be associated with. Comes from being English ;-) As far as the thought that I'm 'gargoyle' or 'gg' in disguise is concerned - I'm not. I'm Ed. Thanks to everyone who has replied here. Obviously the idea of spliting the messages is not well favoured. Whilst I don't agree with many of the reasons put forward, on reflection, I'm inclined to agree. After due consideration, I realise that, if the threads were split, many newcomers might just join the 'BS' thread and the place would hence lose (what I assume to be) the guiding principle of being a place for 'folkies' to talk. Besides, what am I doing now except contributing to a non music thread... What I would say, however, is that there needs to be a better guide for new users to understand how things work here. A prominently placed link on the main page detailing 'help for new users' could well help to dismiss some of the confusion I've certainly felt. Explanations of prefixes could be explained, details of how to track threads or search old threads, information on putting HTML code into messages and so on. Recently I replied to a message from 'Neil' who wanted some chords for Nic Jones's Drowned Lovers. I supplied these. There was no reply from him. Maybe he just took the chords and left. He may well never have seen them... All the best Ed |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Bert Date: 01 Nov 99 - 05:49 PM Ed, I was supposed to do an FAQ page for Max but haven't got it done yet. Sorry about that. Bert. |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Art Thieme Date: 01 Nov 99 - 05:53 PM Songs are nothing but structured B.S. that happens to have a tune. Art |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Áine Date: 01 Nov 99 - 05:55 PM Go Art!! May we quote you?? :-) -- Áine |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Áine Date: 01 Nov 99 - 06:01 PM P.S. Everybody -- I just busted gargoyle over on the BS: Free Photo Site thread (ha! ha!). I told him I was going to tell Mama on him, so there! -- Áine |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Ed Pellow Date: 01 Nov 99 - 06:55 PM I'm trying to be open minded here... Bert: if you 'can't be bothered' to put together a decent FAQ, maybe you should give the responsibility to someone who can. I've tried to justify to myself that the BS messages may have a place here. Messages such as: "Songs are nothing but structured B.S. that happens to have a tune." or I just busted gargoyle over on the BS: Free Photo Site thread (ha! ha!). I told him I was going to tell Mama on him, so there! begin to make me (once more) wonder... Ed
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: katlaughing Date: 01 Nov 99 - 07:05 PM Wow! Ed, before you start assuming things! Bert does everything on here as a volunteer. He does it when he has time. If you can't figure something out there are PLENTY of us who are willing to lend a helping hand. All you have to do is ask. Art Thieme who mentioned the music is BS, is one of the most highly esteemed folksingers on here and very well-known and beloved, as well as being the best folksinger who ever came out of Chicago, IMO. He is unable to perform anymore but that does not lessen his vast knowledge and his sometimes ascerbic wit. Lighten up and learn a bit more before you cast aspersions. As far as what Aine posted about gargoyle; he has alienated most of the good people on here through his own words and hateful actions. The best policy is what Big Mick has decided to do, after much careful thought: totally ignore him. Once again, if you don't like the BS, don't go there! YOU HAVE CONTROL! |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Bert Date: 01 Nov 99 - 07:09 PM Bert: if you 'can't be bothered' to put together a decent FAQ, maybe you should give the responsibility to someone who can. Way to go Ed. The job's all yours. Moose Turd Pie. Bert. |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: katlaughing Date: 01 Nov 99 - 07:21 PM Also, Aine has a right, like any of us, to point out hypocrisy, when she sees it! BTW, Ed, THIS is a non-profit. That means even Max makes nothing for creating, building, and maintianing this site. Everything on it, including Dick and Susan's incredible database are labours of love and volunteer time! |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Nov 99 - 07:33 PM It's getting a bit heated here - perhaps it's time we had another song
Ballade
From time to time, when I don't feel so bright
Once I was sure that I knew wrong from right,
A strain of music floating through the night, a half-remembered tune from far away with memories of fire and hope and light before this world turned mean and cold and grey, and those bright hopes in shattered pieces lay sold by a huckster to a greedy throng. I hear the music of a brighter day - perhaps it's time we had another song.
Prince, there's one tune you always seem to play
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Ed Pellow Date: 01 Nov 99 - 07:53 PM Kat, As a result of the very nature of this type of interaction, one assumes things. I apologise if I've upset anyone. I've certainly had no intention of doing so. Ten messages ago, I was a 'decent articulate guy' It seems I'm not anymore.. As far as what Bert says - I'd be more than happy to try and co-ordinate some sort of FAQ. I assume that 'moose turd pie' isn't the greatest of compliments... There would, of course, be no purpose in doing this unless the owners of this site agreed. Who would I email? Assuming that agreement, I'd be more than happy to put together some instuctions for beginners to the Mudcat. Regarding 'Art Thieme' I've no idea who he/she is. However I would suggest that the idea that: "Songs are nothing but structured B.S. that happens to have a tune" is somewhat naive. Ed ed@pellow.co.uk
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Bert Date: 01 Nov 99 - 08:11 PM Ed, You didn't upset us, we're just having fun with you. You're still a nice guy. In fact you sound like one of us, you can give as good as you get and are prepared to muck in and help. The reference to Moose Turd Pie is from Utah Phillip's Album "Good Though" It's a story of someone who complained about the cook and found out that the rule was "If you complained - the job was yours". In spite of the BS we try to get references in to folky themes whenever we can. I would really appreciate any help that you could give. Lil Neo started a list which I emailed to Max. You would be most welcome to add to it. Just send me a personal message and I'll see that Max gets it, or post it to a thread or send it to Max. One of Art's jobs is our resident comedian and punster extraudinaire. He gets fed up with the BS threads at times and has never lived down his attempt to make fun of us by starting a BS thread about condoms. He wasn't being naive, he was being silly. Welcome to our community and thanks for being a really good sport. Bert. |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Nov 99 - 08:14 PM BS means people talking to each other, telling stories, making observations about their lives, telling jokes, saying how they feel. If songs aren't all those things, what are they? But I'm all for a serious minded fella taking on the task of writing up some FAQs, and keeping them up to date. Mind yoiu whatever they say, I know there are bound to be some BS threads coming out of them arguing forever about whether they are right or not.
There are four and 20 ways of composing tribal lays
(That's Rudyard Kipling, not me. Though I agree with it all the way down the line.) Kevin |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: katlaughing Date: 01 Nov 99 - 08:27 PM Dear Ed, There are quite a few people on here who are longtime folksingers and well-known performers, who are nowhere near as naive as you might think. All I am saying is observe and listen, find out who someone is and read many of their posts before judging them by one posting. I can assure you there is nothing naive about Art. If you want to learn something, he is one of the first people on here, along with Sandy Paton and a few others, to go to. His knowledge is vast and willingness to share hearfelt and constant. He has a voice I could and do listen to for hours and was superb on traditional folk instruments. If you want to judge him for real, check out his new cd, "The Older I Get, The Better I Was", a compilation of some of his recordings from the past 30 or so years. MS keeps him from performing these days. Bert, you are a gentleman! Thank YOU for all that you do for the Mudcat and for being on Mudcat Radio! kat |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Áine Date: 01 Nov 99 - 10:34 PM (NOTICE -- PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING THUSLY -- INSERT FOREFINGER AND MIDDLE FINGER INTO YOUR NOSTRILS AND READ ALOUD IN YOUR BEST NORTH TEXAS/CENTRAL LOUISIANA ACCENT -- BARRING THAT, PRETEND THAT YOU ARE TOMMY LEE JONES, CISSY SPACEK OR HOLLY HUNTER (OK, I know that she's from Georgia, but she has the East Texas accent nailed!!) Geez louise, y'all -- Look what happens when I go off and call my son down at college and cook supper for everybody else in the house! Lordy, lordy!! Now, Ed darlin', I was jus' funnin' with ole gg (Ed, that means 'joking with'). Note the 'ha! ha!.' I didn't mean to start a flame war (but thanks just the same there 'kat for coming to my defense!) Ever'body jus' git their panties out of the twist they're in (stick 'em in the fridge if necessary...) Translation: CHILL OUT! Ed, one of the most important things you HAVE to have around here is a sense of humor/humour ... My God, you're talking to folks who get passionate and wax poetic about GRITS for goodness sake!!! [See -- BS: Grits -- one of my favorite BS threads of the last six months ;-) ] That's one of the best things about the 'Cat -- if you take yourself too seriously, there's always somebody around to kick some sense into ya!!! But the good thing is that you usually get a big ole wet Grandma kiss right after... And as for Art and his "Songs are nothing but structured B.S. that happens to have a tune," well, be there or be square, Ed, because the man hit the bull's eye on that one. And if you don't get it, you don't get it. But, that's OK, we won't kick you out of the family just yet . . . just don't tell us that you eat anything GREEN on grits . . . Peace, Áine [P.S. -- Y'all can take yer fingers out of yer noses now!] |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: _gargoyle Date: 01 Nov 99 - 10:49 PM If you are going to hang around Ed....get used to the "fickelness."
First you will be a "saint" and then a "demon" depending on which way the PC wind is blowing, or what the gang of twelve has been drinking that night.
A name like "Pellow" is too close to "Pillow" - much too soft... you need to develop a "heart of stone," ..... something more along the lines of "Pillar."
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: sophocleese Date: 01 Nov 99 - 10:53 PM There you go gargoyle, to quote Bert; "In fact you sound like one of us, you can give as good as you get and are prepared to muck in and help." Ahh opinions will always differ. That's what makes the world so special. |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: catspaw49 Date: 01 Nov 99 - 11:10 PM Ya know Aine, I was with you right up to the wet grandma kiss thing and I had to go take a drive with the porcelain bus......I'm doing better now, had a shot of baking soda. I think your best bet Ed would be to relax a little. You don't have to learn every detail of the place overnight. Yeah, some things would be better and eventually, they'll happen. But Max does have a lot of things going on with his real business and the improvements at the 'Cat are not the primary thing in his life. Putting out a "site guide" of sorts is in the works. And as far as segregating the threads...never happen. Don Meixner makes the point exactly. Additionally, some great music comes up in the BS threads and one of our "hottest" discussions started life as a simple request for music. Take a little time and get to know the people who inhabit the village and if you don't like us...don't stay......If you do...Welcome. Margaret Chase wrote the line for Elwood P. Dowd and I think it may be the best piece of advice I ever got. "My mother said, 'Elwood, in this life you can be oh so smart, or oh so pleasant.' For years I was smart. I recommend pleasant." Spaw |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Rick Fielding Date: 01 Nov 99 - 11:43 PM Holy Cow, it's happened again! I go off to do my stupid radio show (Grit Laskin was on and he was hilarious - for a luthier), come back, watch Hercule Poirot, saunter up to the ol computer and "All hell breaks loose!" Hey Art (how ya bin by the way?) I guess bein'a folk musician with 40 years service and a shit load of albums, doesn't help a newcomer know just what kind of a girl you really are. Actually Ed, she's quite hilarious - but I have a warped sense of humour! Bert, you just won the annual "Catspaw Award" for infinite patience, when a good "slap upside the head might have been more effective. Gregory, Gregory, YOU are accusing the infamous Gang of 12 of dipping into the home-brew willy nilly? Sapristi Tabernache! Ed, if you promise to get the jokes, (and there are lots) you find no fickleness around here! Rick...still loving the "cat" with a passion |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: katlaughing Date: 01 Nov 99 - 11:53 PM Rick, that's the twelve disciples, right?*G* |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Lonesome EJ Date: 02 Nov 99 - 12:02 AM It's really none of my bidness, but...who the heck are the "gang of 12" anyhow? And Ed, it's been my experience that this place is like most others- you get what you give. You kid, people kid back... you cry, people cry with you... treat em with respect, you get respect... act like an asshole, get treated like one. If anything, people will cut you a little more slack around here than in most other places in the real world. Your idea has some merit, and perhaps Max, Bert and their helpers will incorporate some of it. Welcome. LEJ |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Saxon Date: 02 Nov 99 - 12:29 AM Hey Gargoyle I bet Annap is a member of the twelve I readall the threads and I noticed as an example the way she put grubby in his box last week. Sorry to mention your name grubby but it's the way I called it Saxon |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: Áine Date: 02 Nov 99 - 12:45 AM Dear 'Spaw -- I didn't mean for you to stick your fingers up THAT far!! Glad you're feeling better now, though... -- Áine |
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Subject: RE: A suggestion From: bseed(charleskratz) Date: 02 Nov 99 - 02:08 AM Hey, McGrath: I LIKE that song: what tune do you sing it to? (I think there are lots of us here who are surviving the disappointment that we never managed to slay any real dragons--some of us take a whack at an occasional gargoyle or other chimera, but we usually use Nerf sabers). By the way, anyone here a member of the gang of twelve? I've always been pretty much a loner and outsider, so I'm sure I'm not one. Maybe that would be a good BS thread: WHO ARE THE GANG OF TWELVE (and what are the benefits of membership)? --seed |
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