Did one of us 'diss' folksingers?

Subject: Did one of us 'diss' folksingers?
From: InOBU
Date: 21 Sep 02 - 10:49 AM

Our Brother Steve Suffitt posted the following on a mailing list, which though it circulates to a lage number of folks, only alows a small clique to answer back, not being one of them, as Steve invites an anwer, I will post it here... Steve no offence by this, but I really think you diss the like of Eric and I who DO complain about getting our propers, and if more of us did, we would not be treated like trash,... so to being with, here is Steve's piece...

"A real folksinger...

A real folksinger doesn't worry about bookings. A real folksinger creates his/her own venue. On street corners. In campgrounds. In parks.

In schools. At parties. At family gatherings. Wherever and whenever the opportunity arises. A real folksinger plays in hospitals, and hospices, and old age homes. A real folksinger plays in prisons, and libraries, and bus stations, and at street fairs. And a real folksinger doesn't whine and bellyache and complain because such and such club or festival wouldn't have him/her.

A real folksinger understands that folk music is not a genre. A real folksinger understands that any song can be a folksong. A real folksinger knows there is no such thing as singing a folksong wrong. If a real folksinger forgets the words, he/she makes up new ones on the spot. If a real folksinger can't quite remember the melody, he/she invents one that fits his/her own vocal style, perhaps flatting a 7th here, jumping an octave there, or changing a major key into a mountain modal.

A real folksinger never calls him/herself as a singer-songwriter. And yet a real folksinger is always writing songs to sing and singing the songs he/she writes. And a real folksinger doesn't write self-centered contemplate-one's-navel type songs. A real folksinger writes songs that tell interesting stories. Yes, real folksingers have written songs about bad relationships, but those songs include "Pretty Polly," "Banks of the Ohio," and "Rose Connelly"!

Real folksingers have written some of the greatest lines in the whole English language. Three examples:

Slowly, slowly, got she up,
And slowly drew she nigh him,
And all she said as she neared his bed,
Was, "Young man, I think you're dying."

Rise up, rise up, little Matty Groves,
And dress as quick as you can,
For never shall it be said in old England,
That I slew a naked man.

Dig the beets from the ground,
Cut the grapes from the vine,
To set on your table,
Your light sparkling wine.

A real folksinger borrows from others, and in turn expects that others will borrow from him/her. A real folksinger understands that all "anon" and "trad" songs had real live authors, and perhaps the greatest honor that can ever befall a real folksinger is to become the author of an anonymous/traditional song.

If a real folksinger wants to make money, he/she gets a job.

A real folksinger doesn't sing to an audience. A real folksinger gets the audience to sing. And if the audience whips out kazoos, tambourines, Jew's harps, and harmonicas and starts to play along, so much the better.

Please feel free to add your own comments.

--- Steve"


Frankly Steve, I think this is silly, a folksinger is one who sings to and for and from the people, and we deserve to be recognised for our tallents, and when we are asked to sing off mic to a big crowd, we should back each other and howl at the moon until we can sing truth to power.

Cheers and continued best wishes Larry

formatting revised and line breaks added by mudelf ;-)

Subject: RE: Did one of us 'diss' folksingers?
From: Snuffy
Date: 21 Sep 02 - 11:48 AM

A real folksinger doesn't sing to an audience. A real folksinger gets the audience to sing.

Right on the button, Steve. Hardly a single word I'd disagree with.

How about another one: A real folksinger sings because he HAS TO, whether there's anyone else there or not.

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: Did one of us 'diss' folksingers?
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Sep 02 - 12:45 PM

Some of what Steve says I tend to agree with (sorry, Larry). But a lot of what he says is pure folkum (sorry, Steve).

I avoid the whole issue, because I don't consider myself a "folk singer," even though most other people do. I think of myself simply as a singer-guitarist (no one can argue with that; I sing, and I usually accompany myself on the guitar). I sing a number of songs that no one (but the "horsey set") would say are folk songs, and I make no apology for that. It just happens that most of the songs I sing are folk songs. But that doesn't ipso facto make me--or anyone else--a folk singer.

The term has been used in such a all-inclusive manner within recent years that it has lost any real meaning. Which is why there are so many inconclusive arguments as to what a folk singer or a folk song really is.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Did one of us 'diss' folksingers?
From: InOBU
Date: 21 Sep 02 - 01:43 PM

Hi Don: I agree, that not all of what steve says is completly silly, he's a bright guy and a good singer... but JEEZE if, for example, we always got the audience to sing, where would Phil Ochs be, he'd be Pete Seger, a good fellow, and a folk singer, but Pete isn't ALL folksingers... Cheers Larry

Subject: RE: Did one of us 'diss' folksingers?
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Sep 02 - 01:50 PM

Knowing Larry, I suspect that the "bookings" thing got him a bit. Whatever Larry says here and often in a joking manner about being my favorite "Plug-O-Matic for Sorcha Dorcha, he is a true bard and probably sings as much in the shower as he does out and about. The man is committed to the music, both trad and his own songs which are pointed and often poignant. Larry Otway is certainly a folksinger. Yes, he does ramble on about bookings and the like, but Larry plays and sings for the people and not for himself alone and often it's for the sheer love and not the money....because there often isn't any.

I think the real situation may be that he is caught in the cliqueishness of the the local folk circle and is on the outside looking in. He sees himself as someone who has paid and is still paying dues but not getting the respect he deserves......and if you have heard him, he deserves it.

I love ya' Bro....

Spaw

Subject: RE: Did one of us 'diss' folksingers?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Sep 02 - 02:13 PM

"O wow, we traveled clear across eight counties in the rain, to come play and sing at Lord Inchquin's, and no bed, no drink, and no dinner-- seems the household was a bit busy when we arrived. Oh well! All for the love of a tune, I always say!"

~Turlough

Subject: RE: Did one of us 'diss' folksingers?
From: InOBU
Date: 21 Sep 02 - 02:13 PM

Spaw, I am at a rare loss for words... but thanks. As to the cliquenishness of the other site, apparantly they did later post my and a few other reply's to Steve's note, so I stand corrected that they mail to folks, but don't accept return mail, I had that impression from the past, but I may be wrong, it may be something of very strict oversite of what gets through the web master or something. Cheers all. Larry

Subject: RE: Did one of us 'diss' folksingers?
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Sep 02 - 02:18 PM

We never get tired of this, do we?

Steve posted it here on 6 Jul 01. Click for "A Real Folksinger". I guess my opinions are in that one, except now, I mainly just don't give a shit. I just sing.

Subject: RE: Did one of us 'diss' folksingers?
From: InOBU
Date: 21 Sep 02 - 04:19 PM

JULY 6! Steve Boy! Reviving old rants on other boards!!!! Jeeze!!!! Stop typing and start singing! Larry

Subject: RE: Did one of us 'diss' folksingers?
From: smallpiper
Date: 21 Sep 02 - 08:39 PM

Why the hell shouldn't folk musicians be paid for singing and playing - we all pay for the crap that is blasted out at us in pubs, elevators, shopping ,alls etc so why not folk and whats wrong with wanting to be paid?

Subject: RE: Did one of us 'diss' folksingers?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 22 Sep 02 - 01:47 AM

I like folksingers and folksongs. The rest I don't like. So if I like it, it is a real folksinger (singing folksongs). If I don't like it, it isn't. ;-)

Art Thieme