BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?

Subject: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 11:47 PM

My very first copycat thread!

So ok, who are they?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 11:48 PM

Same as the icons.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Severn
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 11:50 PM

And maybe the Ex-Cons.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:01 AM

Rapaire... I don't think you can be both an icon and an iconoclast. I think that would create a disruption in the fabric of the space/time continuum or something. Like matter and anti-matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:03 AM

No, you can, Carol. Bob Dylan, for example, has been both an icon and an iconoclast for most (if not all) of his career.

Subject: RE: BS: What are Mudcat Iconoclast Distinctions?
From: Severn
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:03 AM

Those of us who actually make the Mudcat Icon Tina Memorial Graduating Clast Of '06, do we get clast rings?

Those of us who don't, do we merely get outclast?

If I'm flying to England in May as part of the Mudcat Econo-Class, do I get My own copycat thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:06 AM

Matter of fact, anyone who is a really effective iconoclast is well on the way to becoming an icon. Ironic, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:09 AM

No, you can, Carol. Bob Dylan, for example, has been both an icon and an iconoclast for most (if not all) of his career.

Like I said... disruption in the fabric of the space/time continuum.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: number 6
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:09 AM

Jeeeez .... Bob Dylan's a member of the Mudcat?

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: number 6
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:12 AM

"disruption in the fabric of the space/time continuum"

That defines Bob ... but are you sure he isn't posting as a Guest? If he was, I thought that was Marlon Brando.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:15 AM

Marlon Brando. Now there's an iconoclast. He's not an icon, too, is he?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: number 6
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:19 AM

He was ... at one time ... 'On the Waterfront'put him up there as an icon ... to the people on of his island kingdom he was an icon. To me he was an icon ... he lived his own life, unaffected by outside influences.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasterers?
From: Severn
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:22 AM

In the Labor Song Movement, do they have Si Kahn-oclasts?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:29 AM

He was ... at one time ...

...damn

Well, how about Dennis Kucinich then?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:29 AM

LOL, Severn.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:31 AM

BTW, I think Dennis Kucinich has been posting as an anonymous Guest, so I declare him a Mudcat Iconoclast.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: John O'L
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 02:05 AM

What about anti-icons? Like um oh I dunno, Billy Bragg?

- "If you got a blacklist, I wanna be on it..."

Is he a member?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 02:17 AM

The Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 04:21 AM

There just isn't a thread of any variety that is safe from the Shambles spreading poison.
Surely this along with all other irrelevant thread invasions, along with S himself, should be deleted?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: John O'L
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:23 AM

One could say the same about GUEST, but one won't, because one assumes there are many, while there is only one Shambles - a true Mudcat iconoclast

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:38 AM

The anonymous ones who now feel qualified to impose their judgement upon the rest of their fellow posters.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:49 AM

Iconoclast =

Someone who tries to destroy traditional ideas or institutions

while there is only one Shambles - a true Mudcat iconoclast

No I have to take issue with that John.

I try to unhold the traditional ideas on which our forum was founded - in the face of many attempts to change and impose yet further restrictions by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team who now proposes to destroy these traditional ideas.

It is quite wrong to think that a view posted that may not be the same as one expressed by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team - should be seen as an anti - Mudcat post.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:50 AM

Guest is right though Roger, you now seem to be working on the principle of, 'if I can't have things my way I will spoil other peoples posts'.
You intrude here without a valid comment, and with only the purpose of pushing your own agenda, mixed with a lot of self-aggrandisement. I know you enjoy the attention Roger in spite of your protestations to the contrary, and this is just the spoilt child drawing attention to himself.
Your non sequiturs should be deleted, as they are only an attempt to disrupt other peoples enjoyment.
It's just a Roger Gall way of saying ME ME ME ME ME ME!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 06:06 AM

Subject: RE: SURVEY: How many post to Mudcat ONLY?
From: John 'Giok' MacKenzie - PM
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 05:46 AM

What a boring life some people must lead!

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Allan C.
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 06:13 AM

If memory serves, Rick Fielding once told us that Bob Dylan did, indeed, post to the Mudcat from time to time. He hinted that there were other icons who posted here as well; but that he was sworn to secrecy.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 06:17 AM

CarolC do you mean (in post 25 Apr 12.01) like Pasta and anti-pasta?.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:11 AM

Yeah, like that, Guest, 25 Apr 06 - 06:17 AM!

But I like The Shambles' new word, "unhold". "Unhold the traditional ideas on which our forum was founded". Indeed.

Nobody wants to talk about Dennis Kucinich? Ah well. But I don't think he's an icon. So I think you can be an iconoclast without being an icon.

Nice to see you here in my thread, Allan.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 11:23 AM

good eye, Carol...I missed Roger's Freudian slip, but I sure enjoyed it once you pointed it out.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: number 6
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 11:41 AM

Allan C. ... I've heard Marlon Brando has also posted here ... as there has been quite a few 'ghosts guests' postings.

"Unhold the traditional ideas on which our forum was founded" ... that certainly would account for just about everyone.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: GUEST,JD
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 01:28 PM

After having their posts critical of the "Mudcat Icon" list deleted by the "Mudelfs" for not only pointing out that the thread had descended into a list of "My Favorite Mudcatter" posts, but that such threads functioned as a very immature way to maintain the Mudcat power hierarchy (Max, Joe, Clones, and their "in group" sycophants), I nominate the Guest who was censored in the Mudcat Beauty Contest thread last night.

I also agree that one must not be an icon before being an iconoclast. There are many iconoclasts who were never icons first.

Shane McGowan, for instance.

I would also make some minor distinctions. Icons generally are establishment types. Certainly Dylan and the other musicians mentioned here would qualify as establishment musicians, even though some of them cultivated personas as rebels.

At the end of the day, when you are having private chats with presidents and popes, ya ain't much of an iconoclast.

In my opinion only, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 04:40 PM

Thomas of Claudiopolis and the Paulicians. (No, it's not a group.)

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: M.Ted
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 04:50 PM

Dylan was not an "establishment" musician--his "singer/songwriter" routine literally destroyed the hold that the "Tin Pan Alley" songwriters had on the music industry. He reshaped the music industry, which is why all the big guys want to shake his hand.

Today's iconclasts are tomorrow's icons, and it's been like that since Zarathustra.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 04:53 PM

Today's iconclasts are tomorrow's icons, and it's been like that since Zarathustra.

Oh really? So you think Dennis Kucinich will be an icon some day?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:18 PM

I remember Denny from when I lived in Ohio years and years ago. I thought he was a twit, but not so much so as Geraldo Rivera. Dennis never chased a pimp down the streets of Akron.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: M.Ted
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:49 PM

Like the Cuyahoga River, Dennis Kucinich represents something fundaamentally American--

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 07:38 PM

How? Did Kucinich go up in flames? I hadn't heard that on the news................Or is it just that he smells, even now.

Actually Ted, you have a point......It may not be a good point, but it is a point nonetheless. BTW, I need to ask.....After nonetheless is there onethesame and twothemore?

Spaw.....threethefuckedup

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 09:06 PM

Who is this Dennis Kucinich character you are all going on about? Is he some TV personality? Yes...I KNOW I can look it up on Google, but I thought I'd rather astound you all by letting you know that I don't know a thing about him. ;-) I somehow missed another vital piece of Americana. Or is he from the UK?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: M.Ted
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 09:12 PM

He went up in flames years ago, when he was Cleveland's "Boy Mayor"--I forget the details, but you don't need details when you're dealing with icons--don't for get moresthebetter--there's one for eleven of something, too, but I always forget what it is--

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 09:40 PM

I rest my case. If Kucinich was an icon, Little Hawk would know about him. He knows all the icons.

LH, Dennis Kucinich is an iconoclastic congressman from Ohio. Here's his website...

http://kucinich.house.gov/

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 09:55 PM

Ah, yes....okay. So he's not a talk show host? Okay.

How about Howard Stern? He's an iconoclast extraordinaire, but not a Mudcat inconoclast, of course. He's also an icon to some seriously sick people. ;-D

It is true that most great inconoclasts soon become icons, as pointed out by M.Ted. They ring out the old, they ring in the new.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: number 6
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 09:59 PM

A true iconoclast, without a doubt ... if not one outstanding human being ... Jane Jacobs.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: bobad
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:12 PM

Jane Jacobs passed away this morning sIx.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:15 PM

So he's not a talk show host?

Politicians, talk show hosts... who can tell the difference?

About Howard Stern though, he's definitely a part of the establishment now.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: number 6
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:17 PM

I heard Bobad ... that's what prompted me in making the post ... people like her must live on regardless ... there certainly isn't enough of her kind ... a real, true iconoclast.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:18 PM

I heard about Jane Jacobs for the first time today, on the radio.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: number 6
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:19 PM

Learn more about her CarolC ... it will be worth it.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: bobad
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:21 PM

She dedicated a lot of her life trying to improve cities and make them more livable for the common person.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:21 PM

Yes, she sounds like a very interesting person.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:23 PM

Denny wasn't the Cleveland mayor who set his hair on fire. That was Ralph Perk.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:25 PM

Denny wasn't the Cleveland mayor who set his hair on fire. That was Ralph Perk.

Whew! That's a relief!

Was he in the Cuyahoga River when it happened?