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BS: Keeping Democrats honest
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Subject: Keeping Democrats honest - Sheehan From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 07 - 09:48 PM House Democratic leaders had gathered in the Cannon Caucus room to discuss wide-ranging and symbolic changes to the House rules, including a complete gift ban and new restrictions on travel, earmarks and legislative procedures when activists, including Cindy Sheehan, drove lawmakers from the microphones. If the rules are adopted after the full House votes on them today, lawmakers' ability to accept junkets from lobbyists will be curtailed, they will have to attach their names to earmarks and spending and tax deductions, credits, exclusions or preferences directed to 10 or fewer beneficiaries will be banned. The proposals also include measures to give the ethics committee power to pre-approve privately funded trips and require lawmakers to report more quickly the costs of the trips. But when Democratic Caucus Chairman Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill.) stepped up to pronounce that Democrats fundamentally would "change the relationship between lawmakers and legislators," Sheehan and her allies started shouting, "De-escalate, investigate, bring our troops home now!" Emanuel's aides said he was willing to talk to Sheehan and her cohorts, but he and Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.), Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.) and incoming Rules Committee Chairman Louise Slaughter (D-N.Y.) headed inside the Cannon Caucus room when it appeared the shouting would not stop.... http://www.thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/010407/cindy.html And in a related item, there's this guy commenting on the recent U.S. elections: ...None of you has a mandate for anything. Not one. Had each elected position on last week's ballot carried an option marked "leave this job vacant for the entire term," a much larger number of you now would be seeking new employment than you possibly can imagine. Very few of you actually are wanted in your position. You newly elected are there simply because we wanted to deliver a message to all of you, not because you somehow are better in our eyes. Those of you heading out the door are leaving for the same reason. Make no mistake about this fact and get over yourselves. Are you listening, incoming House Speaker Nancy Pelosi? Get over yourself and do it now. Our patience with Congressional hubris and incompetence has grown exceedingly thin. Here's the message: We are fed up with your bullshit. Let me repeat that in words of one syllable for those of you unaccustomed to listening to your constituents: We are fed up with your bull shit. Admit it - you know the truth when you hear it and this is truth at its simplest and most fundamental level. This has nothing to do with being Democrat or Republican. Neither do conservative nor liberal values figure into the equation. You are not blameless simply because Bush has proven so frightfully bad at being President. After all, you made possible every single thing that he has done. You were our trump card - our safety net - and you let us down! Above all, we are sick to death of being the World's bad guys! We want America once again to be at the forefront of the good guys. We don't need or want to run the world. You have proven yourselves incapable of running small nations that America bombs back into the Stone Age on behalf of foreign interests. You thereby have proven our own inability to select decent leadership for ourselves. Why, you have proven incapable of putting your own political party houses in order! Your individual records of corruption, fiscal mismanagement and sexual misbehavior defy description and thus demonstrate your inability, even, to run your own lives. It is folly to think you capable of running the lives of others, let alone entire nations of people and, least of all, the rest of us. We are through with tolerating the death of our children in foreign lands for the benefit of special interests, particularly those foreign to America. End that stupid war and do it NOW. Get our sons and daughters back home in time for the holidays. Make no mistake about our resolve in this regard, incidentally. http://www.conspiracypenpal.com/rants/listenup.htm |
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Subject: RE: Keeping Democrats honest From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 07 - 09:50 PM Oops. Didn't hit the BS button. Sorry. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Peace Date: 09 Jan 07 - 09:28 AM If y'all find something to keep the Democrats accountable, please try it on the Republicans, too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Don Firth Date: 09 Jan 07 - 12:44 PM I'll second that! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Rapparee Date: 09 Jan 07 - 12:51 PM I'd druther see this call "Keeping Politicians honest." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: beardedbruce Date: 09 Jan 07 - 12:58 PM Sounds sort of like "Keeping fish dry" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Greg F. Date: 09 Jan 07 - 02:19 PM "The honest politician is one who, when he is bought, stays bought." ~ U.S. Senator from Pennsylvania Simon Cameron (1862) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: GUEST,Started the thread Date: 16 Jan 07 - 08:02 PM First order of the Democratic Congress: http://thomas.loc.gov/home/thomas2.html Type in S.1 and H.R.1 in the search space. Senate Bill 1 and House Resolution 1. First bills of the new session. The Senate bill will punish "grassroots" lobbying and speaking out against the parties in power. The House bill will adopt the BS known as the "9/11 Commission Recommendations Act of 2007." That act takes as truth the official govt lie that 9/11 was carried out by 19 flight-school dropouts. This is your Democratic congress, backing the fascists 100%. What are you going to do about it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Bobert Date: 16 Jan 07 - 08:11 PM Reminds me of walkin' thru a cemetary once and readin' on a headstone, "Here rests a politcan and an honest man" and wonderin' if they'd burried two men in the same grave... But, I'm glad to see the Repubs out but don't hold much faith that the Dems will pan out but... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Rapparee Date: 16 Jan 07 - 09:50 PM "Power comes from the barrel of a gun." -- Mao Tse-Tung "Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." --Thomas Jefferson: Declaration of Independence, 1776. "Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day." --Thomas Jefferson to Pierre Samuel Dupont de Nemours, 1816. "Independence can be trusted nowhere but with the people in mass. They are inherently independent of all but moral law." --Thomas Jefferson to Spencer Roane, 1819. "What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them." --Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787. "...The average American is just like the child in the family. You give him some responsibility and he is going to amount to something...He is going to do something...If, on the other hand, you make him completely dependent and pamper him and cater to him too much, you are going to make him soft, spoiled and eventually a very weak individual." -- Richard Nixon, Interview, November 9, 1972. "Our nation must come together to unite." -- George W. Bush, Tampa, Florida, Jun. 4, 2001 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: SINSULL Date: 16 Jan 07 - 10:02 PM Honest politicians - who would elect them? Certainly not the American voter. SINS the Cynical |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: GUEST,Started the tread Date: 16 Jan 07 - 10:08 PM "Ford's in his flivver and all's right with the world." from Brave New World, Aldous Huxley |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: katlaughing Date: 16 Jan 07 - 10:51 PM I worked as a volunteer for a couple of Democrats whom I consider to be quite honest. I don't think it does any good to be so completley cynical about them all; generalising usually doesn't do any good. Guest, what are you doing about it? Do you have any positive |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Bill D Date: 16 Jan 07 - 10:55 PM One of the problems in being an 'honest politician' these days, is that the media are falling all over themselves trying to GET a compromising, awkward statement out of every politician! Anyone who is competent but who is even vaguely concerned about his/her past or image is reluctant to have all the half-truths and innuendos that the opposition can dig up thrown at them over & over by zealous interviewers anxious to raise THEIR image by getting a sound byte on some vague issue, while ignoring the important questions. What we need is an entirely new way to recruit and choose candidates. I have a 4 hour discourse on how we might approach that....shall I start typing? You gotta promise to read every word! ...maybe put up a deposit in advance..*grin* |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: GUEST,Started the thread Date: 16 Jan 07 - 11:08 PM What do I do? Well, for one thing I voted for the degenerate Democrat scum this time. That's one thing I did. They lip-flapped about change and ending the war and all that, so they got my vote. Now I want you diehard Democrats to keep them honest. I don't know how to kiss their asses like the old-line "liberals" do, but since I helped you people get your candidates into office, I'm now going to hound you people. Why the hell are the Democrats in lock-step with the Republican fascists? The answer is it's all the same party, but since the old two-party-goers don't see it that way, I want you to hold some feet to the fire. I'd write to my reps, but there's not a Democrat within a hundred miles. The Republicans certainly know me...I bug them constantly about their abominations...but I'm not in the districts of these animals that just took over congress. And I want the people who ARE in their districts to pester the crap out of them. They fought back mightily against the "surge" and showed that George W....what horseshit. Where's the talk of pull-out? It's time for Democrats to hold the people they voted for accountable. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Amos Date: 17 Jan 07 - 12:17 AM I outgrew taking directions from invisible beings long ago. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Don Firth Date: 17 Jan 07 - 01:09 AM I don't have to worry about my two senators and my congressional representative. All three are Democrats, and all three are solid progressives. There are a number of other Democratic representatives from other districts in my state, and they, too, are firm when it comes to progressive values. Nevertheless, I watch them very carefully, and I correspond with them regularly. Granted, there are Democrats who are essentially indistinguishable from Republicans (prime example, Joe Lieberman), but to accuse all Democrats of being that way is just plain wrong. Anyone who says that there is no difference between the Republicans and the Democrats is merely making a cynical and uninformed accusation. That's the blanket judgment of someone who's just too lazy to really check on the actions of individual Democrats. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: GUEST Date: 17 Jan 07 - 03:02 AM Keeping smoke in a birdcage. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Richard Bridge Date: 17 Jan 07 - 03:54 AM I think part of the US problem is the parts of the US press/media who relentlessly concentrate on trivia such as sexual morality and irrationalities such as the religious agendas. Regrettably the UK press is also not blameless for the problems with UK politics. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: autolycus Date: 17 Jan 07 - 12:35 PM Man is a political animal. Aristotle. So it's not that politicians are not honest - people aren't. Ivor |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Rapparee Date: 17 Jan 07 - 12:41 PM All power corrupts. Absolute power IS kinda neat, though.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: kendall Date: 18 Jan 07 - 08:30 AM There is a saying in Washington. "To get along, you must GO along." To expect major changes right off the bat is not realistic. Motto of the republican party; Pull up the ladder I'M aboard. Motto of the democrat party; I'm from the government. I'm here to help you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: DougR Date: 18 Jan 07 - 03:55 PM An impossible task. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: kendall Date: 18 Jan 07 - 07:27 PM Or one 6 year term for presidents. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: GUEST,Started the thread Date: 18 Jan 07 - 09:53 PM The U.S. Senate voted 100-0 for the Real I.D. Act of 2005. On May 11, 2008, you will need an internal passport in the U.S. to enter a federal bldg, drive a vehicle, hold a job, etc. Same with the John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007. The Senate voted 100-0 to give the president complete control over the governors of the U.S. Show me the difference between the Republicans and Democrats. The only recent, publicly-stated difference is that the Democrats promised to get us out of Iraq & Afghanistan if elected. They have to be held to the promise. If you live in a district that elected a Democrat, you have to hold them to the promise. The voice of a non-constituent like myself doesn't have the same impact as the voice of a constituent. You have to keep the Democrats honest. They said they would end the war. If they don't end the wars, the rest of the world will be forced to put the U.S. down like a mad dog. This is the most crucial moment in American history. Rationalizing and pussyfooting won't do. Your children will die if you don't take action. Plague your representatives. Phone, write, email, go to the office. They need to stop the wars now, and only you can make it happen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: katlaughing Date: 18 Jan 07 - 10:12 PM Cite your sources, with working links. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: kendall Date: 18 Jan 07 - 10:24 PM My rep to congress has been against the war from the start. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: GUEST,Started the thread Date: 19 Jan 07 - 10:54 PM PELOSI: Democrats will never cut off funding for our troops when they are in harm's way. ABC News, with CFR member Diane Sawyer Impeach the bitch. She's in favor of killing Americans and in favor of genocide. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Ebbie Date: 19 Jan 07 - 11:07 PM Guest/Started the Thread, I gather that you are not an American. Mind your own skirts, fella. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: GUEST,Started the thread Date: 19 Jan 07 - 11:45 PM I'm an American. And you need to mind your new Queen Democrat's skirts. She went back on her word. She's going to kill people. Stop her. If you don't do what you can to stop her, the blood is on your hands. You wanted Democrats, you got them, now how are going to make them stop the war? Think fast. The hundred hours just ended, and Pelosi is saying congress will continue funding the war. What are you going to do about it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: katlaughing Date: 19 Jan 07 - 11:53 PM Oh, an American, who now lurks on forums to blame everyone else for what may go wrong in the world. Hmmm...makes sense to me. Rave with self-righteous "told ya so's" whether there's a shred of truth, continue to distort and rant. Yep, that's gonna bring about a lotta change and allies. Suggest you get a grip. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Don Firth Date: 20 Jan 07 - 12:43 PM "Impeach the bitch?" You sound like the same faceless, nameless yo-yo who wanted to start a bloody revolution in a couple of the more stupid threads. I don't think you have a clue as to what's really at stake here. In fact, I don't think you care about what's really at stake, you just want to blow off steam. Not very helpful. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Ebbie Date: 20 Jan 07 - 01:03 PM "The voice of a non-constituent like myself doesn't have the same impact as the voice of a constituent..." hmmmmmmm? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: GUEST,Started the thread Date: 20 Jan 07 - 01:30 PM The country does NOT need yet another demonstration of the gutlessness of "liberal democrats." Your people are now controlling congress, controlling the committees, controlling the purse strings. So they need to end the wars, as they promised they would. The voice of a constituent is heard more clearly than the voice of one who does not live in the district, so it is up to the people who got democrats into office to hold them accountable. I keep in touch with my rep, and you need to keep in touch with yours. The dems promised to end the wars. Make them do it. "All these legislative initiatives deal with Iraq, with only one – House Joint Resolution 14 – confronting the key issue on the war-and-peace front: Iran. This is a binding resolution that forbids the President from ordering an attack on Iran absent military action against U.S. forces, or a demonstrably imminent threat of attack...." http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=10353 My representative is Ron Paul (or he was until his own party redistricted him to try to get him out of office this last election), and here's the type of thing HE talks about in congress: "...We should remember that Iran, like Iraq, is a third-world nation without a significant military. Nothing in history hints that she is likely to invade a neighboring country, let alone do anything to America or Israel. I am concerned, however, that a contrived Gulf of Tonkin-type incident may occur to gain popular support for an attack on Iran. Even if such an attack is carried out by Israel over U.S. objections, we will be politically and morally culpable since we provided the weapons and dollars to make it possible...." http://antiwar.com/paul/?articleid=10330 I don't know if Paul walks the walk because of conscience or constituent input, but he's walking the walk. In this speech, on the floor of the House, he cautioned the nation that we are at a point where a phony "Gulf of Tonkin" incident might be used to start WW3. Why the fuck aren't the Democrats talking like that? Paul's a Republican bucking his own party. Where the hell are the Democrats? No impeachment, no investigation of 9/11, no investigation of hundreds of massive financial crimes, no pull-out of the wars...why aren't you people screaming about this? Where's your decency? Where's your plan of action? What about recall votes? Are any of you working on that? What promises did your candidates make? Have you called to see what progress they've made toward fulfilling those promises? Do something. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Bill D Date: 20 Jan 07 - 02:01 PM "....why aren't you people screaming about this?" ..because screaming is counter-productive. "Where's your decency?..." right here..perfectly intact. I use it in the voting booth, IF I get a reasonable choice. " Where's your plan of action? .." ... read, evaluate, talk...and hope. What do you want me to do? ask YOU for a list of bad candidates, and go knock 'em off? How much time would you LIKE me/us to spend beating our heads on walls? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: GUEST Date: 20 Jan 07 - 02:11 PM No. You need to CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVE. Tell him or her that he or she needs to introduce legislation to stop the wars. To investigate wrongdoing. To impeach. To do all the things they promised to do. The representative isn't obliged to listen to a person who's not a constituent. That's the FIRST thing they do to avoid responsibility. Always. So we all need to harrass the representatives from our districts. And emails and letters won't do. Phone calls and walk-ins, that they can't avoid. Hound them. Make them do what they promised. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Amos Date: 20 Jan 07 - 02:14 PM Flappity flap. Do let us know what you are actually planning to do or, better yet, actually doing. Where's your plan of action? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: katlaughing Date: 20 Jan 07 - 02:17 PM You need to CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVE. Tell him or her that he or she needs to introduce legislation to stop the wars. Bleeding heart liberals do this on a regular basis. Oh, you didn't know that? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Bill D Date: 20 Jan 07 - 02:24 PM Mine is Chris Van Hollen...he does pretty well on his own, and will hear from me when I decide he needs advice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Don Firth Date: 20 Jan 07 - 02:50 PM My representative is Jim McDermott. What more do you need to know? And if you don't know, educate yourself. McDermott has been to Iraq--went before the war started--and was opposed to the war from the start. He said that he had visions of Americans having to leave Iraq the same way they had to leave Vietnam: frantically scrambling aboard helicopters from the top of the embassy building before they were torn limb from limb. I heard him say that in person. I do call McDermott regularly. But I know I have a damned good representative there. In fact, on several occasions the Repubs have tried to pull his teeth. On one particular occasion, he was contacted by a Florida couple who had inadvertantly heard a cell-phone conversation between Newt Gingrich and someone else, recognized that an illegal deal was going on, and taped the conversation. They gave the tape to McDermott. McDermott turned the tape over to the Ethics Committee, then told the press about it on the basis that the public has a right to know what their elected officials are up to. The Repubs then sued McDermott for unethical conduct! I think that's called chutzpah! No. No problem with my representative! I'm quite happy with him. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Ron Davies Date: 20 Jan 07 - 03:11 PM Hey, people--it's never worth debating a "Ghost". If said poster doesn't get a handle--and stick to it--that says all we need to know about how seriously to take anything it says. I've never understood why anybody ever says anything to a poster which just calls itself "Guest"--except to tell it to get a handle. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: akenaton Date: 20 Jan 07 - 05:09 PM Ron If you don't mind me saying so, I think you "over egg" the GUEST problem. Surely it is the content of the post which is important, not the identity of the poster. Very few of us have a clue who the other members of this forum really are. Handles tell us no more than the label of GUEST. Except for the chance of mistaken identity during debate, which Mr McGrath of Harlow has brought to our attention for long and weary, I see no advantage in having a personal handle other than for egotistical reasons. I find most of the guests here better informed and more entertaining than some of the "longest standing members" like Catspaw49 or the representatives of the "religious right".....Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Ron Davies Date: 20 Jan 07 - 06:39 PM Ake-- The Guest problem would be no problem if each "Guest" would take a name or handle---and stick to it. This is what Joe wants--and it's a modest request. Otherwise you have no idea who you are talking to--and you may have the edifying spectacle of 2 "Guests" attacking each other. And check the subjects and attitudes of opening posts,-- below the line-- (above the line it's fine)--- started by a "Guest". Often the apple of discord--you may have noticed. But be my guest-- if you like shadowboxing, dig in. And since I now know you don't like my attempts to push a "Guest" into civilized behavior, I'll refrain from now on--unless I'm carrying on a conversation and one of our delightful "politics only" Guests puts his oar in. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: GUEST,Started the thread Date: 20 Jan 07 - 08:33 PM Bunch of whiners. I do my bit as a 'guest' by using a consitent name on a thread. That way you don't have to 'shadowbox'. But why, when a guest gets you folks by the short and curlies, do you always fall back on how anonynimty ain't fair? Address the message, not the messenger. On this thread, I suspect the pissing and moaning started early because you Democrats CAN'T defend your party. You've bitched about GWBush and company for years, and now it's being made evident Pelosi and company are THE SAME PEOPLE. If your representative has not introduced or has not signed on to legislation to end the war, then YOU NEED TO DOG THEM. MAKE them do what they promised to do. The Democrats were gonna end the wars, remember? Do you people think the rules don't apply now that your candidates got elected (with the help of a lot of pissed-off Republicans)? You can't just fall back into la-dee-dah socialist territory now. The country wants RESULTS. The War. The terrorists in the White House. The draining of our treasury by Executive criminals. If you don't address these issues, and fast, your party will be outed as the same gangsters that claim the 'Republican' label. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Ebbie Date: 21 Jan 07 - 01:14 AM I really do wonder about you, Guest/started the thread. You're convinced that you are correct in your assessments and you're big on telling others what to do. From this and from all the other threads and posts on which you have fulminated in the last year, I gather that you yourself are very little, and that you feel powerless to an extreme. See, I haven't given up hope that we *CAN* make a difference. I don't feel it is necessary - or accurate - or productive - to issue blanket condemnations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: GUEST,Started the thread Date: 21 Jan 07 - 10:16 PM Blanket condemnations are in order if the Democrats don't stop the wars. That's what the Democratic candidates said they would do, and it's up to the people who elected them to keep them honest. If the Democrats don't insist now that congress stop funding the wars, then the Democrats are just continuing the murder. No...the democrats are TAKING OVER the murders. Politics doesn't end once you cast a ballot. You have to make sure the people elected keep their promises. Bush kept his. We're pre-emptively invading countries. The Dems offered a reversal. Let's see it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Don Firth Date: 22 Jan 07 - 01:35 PM I can't remember the set-up for the joke, but I do remember the punch-line: "Patience, jackass, patience!"Ye gods! They've only been in office for a couple of weeks and they've already passed six of the laws they said they were going to pass. Give 'em a chance! (That's the problem with frothing-at-the-mouth revolutionaries. They want everything last week, and they pee their pants if it actually takes a reasonable amount of time to bring off!) Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: akenaton Date: 22 Jan 07 - 03:00 PM Come on Don, it's not a question of time, it's a question of will! Who's the favourite to challenge Bush? Hillary Clinton, a pro-war, pro-Israeli hawk, distrusted by most of the American electorate and even the tepid democrats of this forum. Hillary as front runner doesn't bode well for anyone with a progressive agenda....Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: Amos Date: 22 Jan 07 - 03:22 PM So you are all three!! Viz, jejune, meretricious AND pusillanimous! Aha!! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keeping Democrats honest From: akenaton Date: 22 Jan 07 - 03:35 PM Are you trying to tell me I'm an arsehole Amos?? |
