BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted

Subject: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: GUEST,Sad Guest
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 03:10 PM

As if the "celebrations" (the word the Bush administration is now apparently using to refer to the widespread looting and anarchy in "liberated" Iraq) which resulted in the hospitals being picked clean as a bone weren't bad enough, this news comes in today from The Guardian, on the priceless treasures taken from the Iraqi National Museum:


BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - The famed Iraq National Museum, home of extraordinary Babylonian, Sumerian and Assyrian collections and rare Islamic texts, sat empty Saturday - except for shattered glass display cases and cracked pottery bowls that littered the floor.

In an unchecked frenzy of cultural theft, looters who pillaged government buildings and businesses after the collapse of Saddam Hussein's regime also targeted the museum. Gone were irreplaceable archaeological treasures from the Cradle of Civilization.

Everything that could be carried out has disappeared from the museum - gold bowls and drinking cups, ritual masks worn in funerals, elaborately wrought headdresses, lyres studded with jewels - priceless craftsmanship from ancient Mesopotamia.

``This is the property of this nation and the treasure of 7,000 years of civilization. What does this country think it is doing?'' asked Ali Mahmoud, a museum employee, futility and frustration in his voice.

The rest of the story is here:

Guardian article

---

Iraqi Museum an Inside Job? (Click)

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 03:42 PM

But on the bright side, the US and UK soldiers are doing an excellent job of guarding the Oil Ministry.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 04:24 PM

Is anybody really surprised? The veneer of "civilization" is really quite thin, and it depends on something called "civility" (surprisingly enough) in order to maintain its integrity. This may be the beginning of a long dark night for the world. Pray that I'm wrong.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 04:29 PM

Looting Museums is bad enough - but looting hospitals, that is something else.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: mack/misophist
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 05:20 PM

Looting museums is destructive, greedy, contumacious, and anything else you can think of. However, given the experiences these people have had, looting hospitals is sad but perhaps prudent.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 05:42 PM

Not surprising at all........And as GW's conservative brethren are pointing out, it is often the result after a people have been shown some glimmer of freedom and people who are desperate to get out from under the oppressive system that has held them down. I'm a bit confused though............How does the Iraqi situation differ from looting in Watts or Detroit? As I recall most of these very same people attributed those riots to "out of control, vandalizing, n*****s." Must be all in the timing.............

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: GUEST,Sad Guest
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 06:22 PM

I disagree that this lawlessness was to be expected. I believe it is intentionally being allowed to occur by the US command, who for some reason, have chosen not to impose martial law in Baghdad, and instead are allowing the capital to be plundered. Here is an excerpt from today's Washington Post:

"The stealing was watched but not checked by U.S. forces. "We should discourage looting, but we're not going to stand between a crowd and a bunch of mattresses," Maj. Gen. David H. Petraeus, commander of the 101st Airborne Division, told his senior officers.

Troops are to intervene directly only if Iraqis appear to be stealing weapons from any of the many arsenals found throughout the city."

I wouldn't think that 7,000 year old antiquities would qualify as being in the same league as "a bunch of mattresses" but that may well be the level of cultural indifference, ignorance, and outright hostility among the American military towards all things Iraqi.

CNN showed footage this afternoon of a protest by ragtag bunch of Baghdad civilians about the looting, halfheartedly chanting something along the lines of "Yankees Go Home" and a US soldier, getting right up in their faces, screaming at them "We came here to give you a--holes your f---ing freedom!"

Makes one proud to be an American, doesn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: artbrooks
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 06:53 PM

Well, Sad Guest, American troops could use the British alternative of shooting looters(BBC story here). Now, granted, these looters were robbing a bank, and they may have opened fire first, but combat soldiers are not police officers. The British soldiers reacted just as they were trained to do, and I expect the Americans would do the same. Have you watched the video of these people? A lot of them are carrying pistols and AK-47s. Is an old desk or a Sumerian statuette worth igniting a battle in the streets?

I suppose its too bad the Iraqis collapsed so fast, otherwise the "Coalition" would have had time to get their own police force organized. Its what?...four days since "the fall of Baghdad?" There is still fighting going on in the city. This isn't network television, when an entire show plays out in an hour. War sucks, and, as brother Rumsfeld said, "bad things happen." I hope that, a week from now, we are all as surprised at how fast order was restored as most of us are at the speed at which things have gone so far.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 06:55 PM

Sad Guest.....I read this in the paper this morning. I have no words to describe how I feel. Anger doesn't do one fucking bit of good...so I guess "sad" is it.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Peter T.
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 08:22 PM

I showed some of the images from Sumeria in a class on the War about two weeks ago, including some exquisite vases that are beyond priceless -- I talked about my hope that they hadn't been bombed, it never occurred to me that, after all the effort that had gone into protecting them -- let me be clear, the American military went out of their way to protect these sites, they had extensive consultations with experts in archaelogy -- that they would be looted and smashed. I cannot understand why the military on the ground weren't briefed on this -- some of the most valuable things in the whole country. As Rick said, it is beyond words how tragic this is. I pray that the most important ones were somehow hidden still further away, though it sounds really bad. We are talking about things 5,000 years old, and completely irreplaceable. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 08:26 PM

I think the chances are the things stolen from the museums will end up in the hands of rich collectors in the West. I'd not be surprised if some of the thefts weren't done to order.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Alba
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 09:57 PM

7,000 year old Artifacts...gone.....I have to agree with Rick ....no words..well quite a few angry ones but Ill refrain. Sad and bewildered as to WHY it was ALLOWED to happen. Unbelievable!

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 10:05 PM

Like McGrath, I think that many of these will end up in private collections. Such "collectors" should be treated as the criminals they are.

Any word on the Iraqi libraries?

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: bflat
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 10:17 PM

The responsibility for the loss of these national treasures lies with the persons who had no regard for their heritage demonstrated by the reckless looting of the national museum, flies in the face of the retherotic about a great, proud culture. The Iraqis people must look inward for these acts of desecration. This was not an action taken as one might think of the spoils of war, as the reporting goes. Place the shame on the looters.

Ellen

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 10:42 PM

Well danged, they was just a buch of old vases and artsy stuff. Who needs that crap anyway, except a bunch of Volvo drivin commies? Whah matters is profits, profits, profits! How many time are we going to have to review this material? This ain't you grand-daddies Oldsmobile? Get with it. It's profit, profit, profit. Screw the art. Probably done by some homo, anyway!

Now repect afetr me: Profit, profit, profit!

Well done!

Hope we don't *have * to have this discussion again...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 11:29 PM

PeterT, one can always hope that the stuff was taken by indivuduals who hope to preserve and one day return it. But not likely. Maybe it all drifted down toward Kuwait, tit for tat for the stuff liberated when Saddam invaded there?

The black market will move this stuff, because it was cataloged and documented in such a way that if anyone attempts to sell anything in the open marketplace without the proper provenance they won't be able to.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: GUEST,Sad Guest
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 12:17 AM

From Reuters, via the Common Dreams website:

Published on Saturday, April 12, 2003 by Reuters
Looters Ransack Baghdad's Antiquities Museum
by Hassan Hafidh

BAGHDAD - Looters have sacked Baghdad's antiquities museum, plundering treasures dating back thousands of years to the dawn of civilization in Mesopotamia, museum staff said on Saturday.

They blamed U.S. troops for not protecting the treasures.


An Iraqi civilian walks through the vault of the National Museum in Baghdad, Iraq Saturday April 12, 2003. Looters opened the museum vault, went on a rampage breaking ancient artifacts stored there by museum authorities before the war started.

Surveying the littered glass wreckage of display cases and pottery shards at the Iraqi National Museum on Saturday, deputy director Nabhal Amin wept and told Reuters: "They have looted or destroyed 170,000 items of antiquity dating back thousands of years...They were worth billions of dollars."

She blamed U.S. troops, who have controlled Baghdad since the collapse of President Saddam Hussein's rule on Wednesday, for failing to heed appeals from museum staff to protect it from looters who moved in to the building on Friday.

"The Americans were supposed to protect the museum. If they had just one tank and two soldiers nothing like this would have happened," she said. "I hold the American troops responsible for what happened to this museum."

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 12:32 AM

The Iraqis people must look inward for these acts of desecration. This was not an action taken as one might think of the spoils of war, as the reporting goes. Place the shame on the looters.

Should all people in the US and UK be judged on the same level as our most criminal elements? Just what do you think would happen in the US and UK if all forms of law enforcement were destroyed and not replaced with any kind of order? I'd say exactly the same thing as happened to the Iraqi National Museum.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Troll
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 12:57 AM

Civilized behavior is a thin veneer covering the Barbarian that lurks in all of us. Read "Lord of the Flies".

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 01:13 AM

I think a better way for me to ask that question in my last post would be this: Just what do you think would happen in the US and UK if all forms of law enforcement were destroyed and not replaced with any kind of order, and the rest of us were left completely at the mercy of the criminals in our society? I'd say exactly the same thing as happened to Baghdad and the Iraqi National Museum.

Don't forget. There was looting in NYC after the 9/11 disaster, too. And there is always looting after major natural disasters such as hurricanes in the US as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Barry Finn
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 05:36 AM

It was the military's scared duty as an invading force to protect Musuems, water & food supplies, hospitals, schools, places of worship & the like. The 1st tall order of an invader who wants to continue to hold a nation within it's grip & change the spirit of it's people is to go 1st for it's history, culture, language & religion. After that suject them to diseases that they are unable to ward off without the proper medical supplies (American Indians, Hawaiians, Black Americans, etc). Really show them the meaning of thirst & hunger (not just 12 yrs of sanctions) & to finish off the coup manipulate their educational system. So far we've done a fine job for starters. Where will we go from here (not home I'd wager). No need to worry about protecting the oil fields that's a whole different can of worms, the oil fields belongs to US & we need to protect our own interests above all else. Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 08:38 AM

Having recently read a magnificant book about archaeological treasures & seen once again pictures of the head-dresses & the Ram & the other Sumerian pieces, I can only hope they are going on the blackmarket & not being melted down as other treasures have been in the (recent &) distant past.

Another futile war - uncounted people dead, & the living still suffering - loss of family members, friends, homes, water, food, utilities, health care & also culture.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 08:47 AM

CarolC;

Well, danged, we know exactly what would havppen if the US had no law enforcement and it's civilized structure collapsed. It would be Bubba against the world. Yeah, people fear what they don't understand, so Bubba and Billy Bob would dirve their pickup trucks into D.C., beak into the galleries, but rather than steal the art, they would destroy it. Why? Because it represents something intellectual and unfortunately the US has done a ver nice job of creating an *under* class of people who are no more than borderline civilized and ready to defend themselves against what they perceive to be the master, ahhh, in this case, anyone who is a tad more enlightened. Whereever I go I see angry rednecks and have often wordered where they all come from. This certainly is a population of dumbed down epsilons...

But with a nation so armed with sophisticated weaponry, it sure as heck would be a mess...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 10:16 AM

On to Teheran and Damascus...

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 11:00 AM

Yes, troll, but the angel who "lurks in all of us" has built our civilizations and every beautiful and useful thing we have. I put my faith in the angel. I always thought "Lord of the Flies" was an overstated case (although well written).

The normal condition of most people at most times is to be peaceful and helpful to one another. Add massive material inequality, poverty, and greed for money to that, however, and problems can and will arise...as you will discover if you walk around in ghettos at night, sporting a big wad of cash.

People don't react well to economic oppression.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 11:37 AM

And there are some people who don't react too well to an opportunity to make a quick buck either, regardless of what it costs other people.

The Mail on Sunday - which is about as rightwing a paper as we have in England (and very pro-American)- has a lead story on its front page today drawing attention to the fact that, while the hospitals were being looted without any interference, there was a massive US Army presence protecting the office premises of the oil business. Priorities...

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 12:17 PM

Sure - lets move on Damascus and Tehran...

Funny thing about the destruction/looting of Museum contents, there now is no PUBLIC record predating those held in Israel of certain ALLEGED facts which jusify the colonization - theft more like - of large areas of Palestine.

Second interesting aside, Mr Soros and his endless wealth are somehow connected to a lost train from WW2 somewhere in ummm let me see... Romania - very instructive here docha think?, should the next great movement of errr wealth to be in Turkey? Somewhere around Anatolia perhaps?

Sleep light who love truth and justice for today the jesusnazis are Rome.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Peter T.
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 12:28 PM

I would say that Lord of the Flies understates -- but then I went to a boy's school. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 01:24 PM

My objection to Lord of the Flies is that it implies that the violence only comes from a loss of rationality. In my experience, without law enforcement there would be murders, robbery, rape, etc. not only out of irrational impulses, but the same motivators that currently operate on us. Worried about competition? Kill them off. Want something someone else has? Take it from them. It's perfectly rational, if short-sighted, and can't be explained away as regression. We are no different from those kids, or from our ancestors at any point in the last hundred thousand years, except for our societal constructs. Take them away, and chaos will always result.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 01:34 PM

And maybe some of these people are just plain scared of the chaos and famine to come. A little gold, something to trade for food... The officials at the Museum claim that at least some of the looters knew exactly what to take and where to find it. Some items had been hidden away in vaults when the war broke out. These were among the first to go. It is likely that museum employees planned these thefts. So yes - it is likely that there was some theft to order. It is also likely that some items will be hidden away in private collections and never see the light of day again.

Tragic. Almost as tragic as the loss of hundreds of civilians in the bombing.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Peg
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 02:06 PM

It does seem to me that the US and UK troops could have exercised some more forethought in protecting these irreplaceable treasures...as as been pointed out, looting always happens in such circumstances and had been going on in Baghdad for days, albeit with TVs, computers and sofas, not priceless art objects. Putting a small armed detail atthe museum to guard against looting would have been so easy as to seem effortless. Of course some blame lies with the looters; but what the hell did everyone think would happen??? Americans given the same opportunity would steal everything possible. No one looting VCRs during the L.A. riots actually needed one...

If we had an invasion on our home soil in a major city (let's say, Boston) and the foreign military was, for whatever reason, not sufficiently running the game (maybe they are only here to grab military secrets from MIT and retroviruses from Harvard Med), and freestyle martial law took over, I do not doubt for a moment that a whole lotta yahoos with guns would be in the streets looting for all they could get, including antiquities from the MFA, guitars from the Hard Rock Cafe, diamonds from Shreve, Crump & Lowe, and lobsters from the fishing boats.

I think one reason the whole Survivalist movement is so strong in certain parts of this country is that, perversely enough, these paranoid sorts understand that when the apocalypse comes, it truly wil be every man for himself. So in order to prevent anyone breaking into their bomb shelters or stealing their food, they need a big stockpile of weapons. The more, the bigger, the better. An AK-47 fends off some asswipe with a 9mm just fine...get away from my Cheerios, punk!

And I do mean every *man* for himself: one thing likely to occur that no one likes to think about is the relegation of women to the status of chattel. Whoever has the gun, gets the girl.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 02:20 PM

Peg-Women can have guns, too. In a truly anarchic system, EVERYONE is chattel unless they can defend themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: artbrooks
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 02:38 PM

Huumm...is the statuary from the Parthenon that Lord Elgin allegedly bought from a Turk still in the British Museum? Lord Byron said "Dull is the eye that will not weep to see Thy walls defaced, thy mouldering shrines removed By British hands." (Childe Harold)

And of the four Egyptian obelisks outside that country, in Paris, Rome, London and New York, only the latter two were actually given to its present owners by an Egyptian head of state. The others were hauled off by Napoleon and Caligula. The Iraqi looters are obviously in excellent company.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 02:52 PM

artbrooks-The Elgin Marbles are still in the British Museum. I think the difference is that when a "civilized" nation takes priceless art from an "uncivilized" nation, it's for the historical record or the "superior appreciation of the cultured elites". When someone takes priceless art to melt it down, then it's barbaric.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 03:21 PM

Iraq is a "civilised" nation. They pretty well invented civilisation.

And from what I have seen the looting seems to have been every bit as typical of an advanced civilisation as the looting we've seen on TV in American cities over the years.

As in this kind of situation you've got two things going on at once - desperate people trying to get basic stuff they need, such as food, and would-be entrepreneurs seizing the opportunity to rip off anything and everything they they can get hold of.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 03:49 PM

McGrath-That was why I used quotes.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Penny S.
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 04:10 PM

I remember that in one of the Brixton riots, people were driving in from the leafy suburbs to loot. Electrical goods, mainly. Direct information from witnesses. It doesn't need to be a major break down of society. And it only needs a few.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 04:13 PM

So, are rioting sports fans mostly an Anglo and American thing, then? When people riot, loot, and destroy property for shits and giggles after a sports match, as we saw in the US AGAIN last night after the NCAA hockey tournament ended, and sports fans of both the winners and losers took to the streets?

And then there is the Halloween rioting and looting and destruction of property.

So the difference between the Iraqis and Anglo and American sports fans who see rioting as a form of entertainment attached to sports is...?

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: GUEST,Murray on Saltspring
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 12:14 AM

Has anyone actually asked the rude question, "Why the hell don't you troops do something about this?" of the fellows in charge? Who gave the orders not to interfere? Why did no-one have the initiative to prevent all that? Someone must have answers. As it is, I am saddened but not really surprised. And the military (U.S. and U.K.) should not be surprised either; this sort of thing happens in chaotic times - so they should have been ready with their orders & strategies, to save and protect, mind you, not stand by impotently. I lay most of the blame directly on the military command.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Cluin
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 03:59 AM

Wasn't it some mouldy old Roman who asserted that civilization was only three meals away from anarchy? It would happen here too.

Artbrooks is right. Combat soldiers are not policemen. Protecting the museum was not their concern; winning the war was. A lot of antiquities were destroyed in Germany too during the Allied saturation bombing there during WWII.

This is just one more tragedy on top of a greater and greater pile of them. I hope all those bored people who had their shit in a knot looking forward to this thing to break up the monotony will be satisfied now.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 09:00 AM

My question is, where the hell are the MP's? Someone must have realized you would need some force to manage the checkpoints at least, even if they somehow failed to predict any of the looting, but it's all being done by soldiers trained for combat, not law enforcement.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 09:00 AM

Murray, they were too busy guarding the Oil Ministry. I saw on the news that they were guarding it and that it hadn't been looted at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 09:26 AM

The standard organizational structure for an Army division includes a company of MPs, about 120-150 people at full strength. The missions that they are primarily trained for are command post security, POW collection and security and traffic control...there are a lot of vehicles in a division.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 09:31 AM

{...sorry...hit the wrong button...} These 120 people are mostly tasked out to the combat brigades to do these jobs. What's needed to guard the buildings in Baghdad are security guards, and (IMHO) the Iraqis who were doing this before should be perfectly capable of going back to work.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Peter T.
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 09:34 AM

There is nothing there to secure. It appears the National Library was torched as well. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 12:40 PM

Its definitely a loss, although efforts are being made to recover the material, and specialists are being asked to help in repairing the materials. I heard that after looting in one of the southern cities in Iraq the local Imam forbad anyone who had looted from attending prayer service until they brought any looted goods into the mosque.
and people started to return them, (just like they did after the LA riots).
petr

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Grab
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 02:41 PM

Murray (and others):

There's a simple reason why the troops don't do anything about it: THEY'RE NOT FUCKING STUPID!!!

It's certainly a loss, granted. But it's not so great a loss that:-
(a) it's worth civilians getting shot by soldiers,
(b) it's worth soldiers getting shot by other civilians armed with AK-47s,
(c) it's worth destroying what little fragile trust the Iraqis have for the coalition soldiers by killing civilians,
(d) it's more important to guard than places which are important in getting the country's infrastructure going again.

From the news reports I've been reading, the Iraqis are not sure whether the US/UK armies are invaders or liberators. Now suppose you have martial law on the streets, civilians getting shot (and there've already been several cases of cars getting shot up that refused to stop) - how does that strike you? Sounds like Palestine or Ireland under an army of occupation to me. And at that point, the US/UK effort in Iraq will be precisely dead.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 02:41 PM

It's more than just a question of bringing things back.

Seven thousand years of history has been systematically trashed. Here is a Guardian page with a bunch of pictures showing what has happened. Inside the remains of the Iraqi Museum of Archaeology

"Although most of the museum has been destroyed and its holdings looted, it is now guarded at gunpoint"

And what's going to be happening in the country's historical sites, such as Ur, the first city in the world?

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: GUEST,Sad Guest
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 03:27 PM

I disagree that guarding the National Museum wasn't worth a few lives. I feel very strongly that invading Iraq was important enough, including finding plenty of protection for the Oil Ministry, was important enough to risk both American and Iraqi lives, then so were some of the world's most precious artifacts from the Cradle of Civilization, much of which were thousands of years old.

The oil, on the other hand, is just being wasted and burned, and will be gone in 50 or so years time anyway.

In fact, I'd much rather see those antiquities preserved and protected, than the paperwork at the Oil Ministry to make Halliburton's job of looting Iraq's oil fields easier.

Any day of the week.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi National Museum Looted
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 15 Apr 03 - 02:03 AM

Probably a good week to shop in the bazaars... :(

But I'm in a weird "cup half full" mood today, so I'll point out one "good" thing: Iraqi antiquities were for hundreds of years pilfered by the British and others for their museums. Thanks, for once, imperialists! :)

---Lepus Rex