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BS: 'Christian' Loonies Lose It in Montgomery
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Subject: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Mobile From: GUEST Date: 27 Aug 03 - 11:23 AM OK, so I was just reading the wire reports that the 10 Commandments monument has been moved, and that while it was happening, the lunatic fringe outside the courthouse prayed that the movers would begin trembling while moving the thing. Apparently, any Christian concern for the well being of their fellow human beings isn't a large part of God's plan. But what I truly don't get, is how the mainstream media can report this story with a straight face, as if these fucking lunatics were normal people like the rest of us, expressing a legitimate Christian point of view. After all, the mainstream media did such a fine job of suggesting that the 10 million plus peace activists who protested the US war against Iraq in a single day, were the lunatic fringe. So why not these nut cases? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Mobile From: GUEST Date: 27 Aug 03 - 12:12 PM Oops! Thread title should read Montgomery, not Mobile. Can a Joe Clone fix that? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Mobile From: Don Firth Date: 27 Aug 03 - 12:30 PM GUEST, one should really differentiate between Christians and "Pseudo-Christians," those who call themselves Christians, but who pay practically no attention to the teachings of Christ. That's what this bunch of ninnies are. Not everyone who calls himself or herself a Christian is a Christian, and this loopy crowd falls into that category. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Mobile From: GUEST Date: 27 Aug 03 - 12:35 PM Sorry Don Firth, you are right. After I posted this, I realized that I should have put the word Christian in parentheses. Then I realized that I'd put Mobile in the thread title, instead of Montgomery. I'm beginning to think I should have stayed offline today... From the NYT article: "Protesters screamed ``God haters!'' and ``Let their wheels crumble!'' as the removal got under way." I hope that this idiot is not only removed from the bench, but is disbarred for life. What a complete and utter waste of scarce government resources, this whole debacle is. If I lived in Alabama, I'd be ashamed to admit it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Mobile From: Bill D Date: 27 Aug 03 - 12:37 PM if I remember correctly, Judge Moore had the monument created on his own, and had it put INTO the building in the middle of the night, as a fait accompli. Seems like he knew that this was not exactly a Seems like all over the world there are religious groups who are not content with the free and open practice of their religion, but insist on the right to impose it on everyone else. Judge Moore kept saying that the Constitution gave him the right to "acknowlege" God, as if there were no doubt about the matter and HIS version of 'God' was the only one. Once again.. "Freedom OF religion must imply freedom FROM religion for those who disagree" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Mobile From: Bill D Date: 27 Aug 03 - 12:44 PM in case my failure to change fonts made that hard to read: "Freedom OF religion must imply freedom FROM religion for those who disagree" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: katlaughing Date: 27 Aug 03 - 12:58 PM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: Don Firth Date: 27 Aug 03 - 01:56 PM And what boggles the mind is that this guy is a judge! OY! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: Amos Date: 27 Aug 03 - 02:40 PM He just happens to be a deeply religous judge!! Oi, such tsuris!! Molly Ivins comes to mind-- in a related rant she wrote recently: They are on the wrong side of history, the wrong side of economics, the wrong side of technology, the wrong side of progress and the wrong side of the environment. (She was talking about loonies, not Christians). A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: GUEST Date: 27 Aug 03 - 02:53 PM Well, these Christian loonies are also on the wrong side of God! This guy isn't just a judge. He is the Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, and the Alabaman authorities are just feeding this frenzy by saying they agree with the Chief Justice's desire to have the monument in the courthouse, but insist they must not violate the federal court order. So those elected Alabama officials, like the Attorney General, are having their cake and eating it too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: GUEST Date: 27 Aug 03 - 02:53 PM BTW, thanks for fixing the thread name! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: Rapparee Date: 27 Aug 03 - 03:06 PM He was elected on the basis of having the 10 commandments in the statehouse. He fought an earlier court order to remove the 10 from a court where he was a circuit judge. He's got a fixation, methinks, that he thinks will take him to High Political Office. Oops! He plumb forgot that getting slammed with a contempt of court charge could derail political plans. And I suspect that the Almighty has more to do that put up with That Bunch Down There. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: Rapparee Date: 27 Aug 03 - 03:15 PM It also strikes me that the Almighty might prefer that the 10 Commandments be kept instead of displayed. Like the one about not worshiping false gods, gods made of stone, perhaps.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: GUEST Date: 27 Aug 03 - 03:18 PM Perhaps we could get a recall vote to eject the State of Alabama and the rest of the lunatic Christian good ole boy south from the union. The right wing nut Xtian cretins wouldn't get too far if they didn't have the federales to kick around, now would they? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: Gareth Date: 27 Aug 03 - 03:25 PM Hmmm ! Why is it that Heinlien's novella "If this goes on !" aka "Revolt in 2100" becomes nearer and neare to reality ???? Gareth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: GUEST Date: 27 Aug 03 - 03:33 PM Dunno Gareth, but here is a chronology of the events dating back to when Chief Loonie Man was sworn in: Chronology of events |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: alanabit Date: 27 Aug 03 - 04:15 PM Some of the stories I read about the Fundamentalist right in America make me wonder if there is intelligent life on that continent. Fortunately, every now and then a thread like this comes along which makes me laugh so much that I realise there must be. We haven't even heard from Spaw, khandu or Little Hawk yet... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: Bill D Date: 27 Aug 03 - 04:15 PM from that article.... Moore says, "To restore morality we must first recognize the source from which all morality springs." right...from ignorance and superstition and desire to force others to shrug about their ignorance and to accept your particular superstitions...*sigh* It is the height of gall to claim that you 'know' **the** source of human principles of guidance. It requires a contorted reading of history and a gross distortion of reason & logic. But, a clever man can easily do all of those things, hmmm? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: Mark Clark Date: 27 Aug 03 - 05:18 PM Looks to me as though Moore is right at the top of the list to be Dubya's first Supreme Court nominee. - Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: Don Firth Date: 27 Aug 03 - 05:31 PM Moore's statement, "To restore morality we must first recognize the source from which all morality springs." I resent the hell out of that! Moore and twits like him seem to think that they have a direct pipeline to the Almighty, and this gives them the right and the authority to cram their beliefs down the throats of the rest of humanity. They also seem to think that everyone would run around raping, pillaging, and murdering were it not for constant reminders of eternal Hellfire or Heavenly reward. They have no concept that there are people in this world who do not believe in their idea of God, nor of any alleged Supreme Being at all, but who lead ethical, moral lives by anybody's standard because they have thought about it and behave as they do simply because it is the right thing to do. Some of these "unchurched" people lead more exemplary lives than many self-proclaimed "Christians" that I know. They don't need the threat with Hell or the bribe of Heaven. I know a lot of genuine Christians, and they don't need the heaven or hell carrot and stick either. In fact, although I'm not the most devout of people, I do go to church regularly—but it's a church where they don't talk a lot about heaven and hell, they talk about respect and regard for others (regardless of race, religion, ethnic origin, or sexual orientation) and caring for those who are in need. I go there because these people don't stand around running their mouths, they get out and do. I don't see a lot of that coming from people like Moore, but that is what Jesus taught way back when. I think some of these pseudo-Christians need to have constant reminders (like their graven images of the Ten Commandments) and keep a copy of the Bible handy (like the Boy Scout Handbook) to check every move they make because if they didn't, they would be the ones who do the raping, pillaging and murdering. They need the carrot and the stick themselves, and they think everyone else is like they are. End of snarl. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: PageOfCups Date: 27 Aug 03 - 05:35 PM Well, if a ruling ever comes that posting religious tenets in governmental places is okay because it's "freedom of religion," then I'll be lobbying for the Wiccan rede to be posted right there next to the 10 commandments. Freedom of religion does apply to EVERY religion, right? Right? PoC who likes to add "under the Goddess" to the pledge of allegience just to see if people are paying attention... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: wysiwyg Date: 27 Aug 03 - 05:35 PM Why feed the trolls, again? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: GUEST Date: 27 Aug 03 - 05:51 PM Trying to start trouble, as usual, with a thread with the word 'Christian' in the title, aren't you WYSIWYG? Tsk tsk. There is no trolling going on here, except yours. The rest of us are simply holding a civil conversation about a sensational story about news of the day. You are making it appear, Susan, that you truly can't stand and/or won't tolerate, anyone criticizing your brethren. Why even the televangelists are disagreeing over this one--it is Dobson vs Robertson, I hear, with the Wrong Rev. Pat claiming that the laws of man are, in fact, primary in this case, and not the other way 'round. The bleedin' heathen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: akenaton Date: 27 Aug 03 - 05:52 PM A few weeks ago on another thread I was discussing the tactics of Bush and Blair,in using their religious beliefs to influence the masses.I was immediately attacked from all sides for daring to refer to "the people " as simple.This action in Montgomery seems to me typical of religious simpletons. I never cease to be amazed at the ability of these folk to suspend reality...Ake The People are simple ..and not only in religious matters |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: GUEST Date: 27 Aug 03 - 06:08 PM "I'll learn to work the saxophone I'll play just what I feel Drink Scotch whisky all night long And die behind the wheel They got a name for the winners in the world I want a name when I lose They call Alabama the Crimson Tide Call me Deacon Blues" So pour yourselves a nice Scotch whiskey, and enjoy a little more light reading: "Just which commandments are the 10 Commandments?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: Bill D Date: 27 Aug 03 - 06:15 PM whoever strated this thread, although 'anonymous', was not exactly trolling in the classic sense. I would not have replied at all if the idea was simply to get us fighting among ourselves. I AM sad that someone, even expressing strong opinion, was afraid/unwilling to have any identity, but it was entirely possible for someone else to have started a discussion of the Alabama situation with a 'gentler' approach, and still have elicited the same basic responses. The issue involved with the monument is kind of an important one in our society, as it relates to "how to be fair to all and still impose nothing on anyone and not suggest that our government supports any particular version of religion." This man, Justice Moore, is cut from the same cloth as Pat Robertson and the most extremist Muslim clerics and Mormon Elders.....they would TELL us, if they could, what to do, what to believe, when to think and how to act. If the situation were that someone were trying to tell Judge Moore he could not put that monument at his church, I would be the first to argue on HIS side! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: Amos Date: 27 Aug 03 - 06:33 PM Bill D: That particular Guest has been persistently anonymous for a long time in these parts, and is not only afraid to say who, but is also afeared to even say why. But she's pretty smart, other wise... A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 27 Aug 03 - 06:53 PM Moore's statement, "To restore morality we must first recognize the source from which all morality springs." First, the ten commandments are not all about morality. Some of them are; some are merely in support of a prescribed manner of worship of a given soi-disant "diety". Even those which ARE about morality (as for instance, don't kill, honor your parents, don't lie, etc.), can hardly be said to be "the source from which all morality springs." These precepts had been around for a long time before the ten commandments came down the mountain. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: Bobert Date: 27 Aug 03 - 07:18 PM Well, I've never shied away from declaring my Faith in Christ here at the Mudcat but I don't think that Jesus would be doing what this judge has done. Might of fact, I strongly believe that Jesus wouldn't want any part of it. The judge argues that the American legal sysytem is based on the Ten Commandments yet only three of the commandments have found their way into our code of law. I think it is also important to remember that the United States came about from a movement of folks who who didn't want to be forced to participate in the Church of England. *Protest* ants! I think it is equally important to recognize the fact that here in the US, where folks have Faith choices, there is a much higher percentage of regular worshipers than in countries with secular governments... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: katlaughing Date: 27 Aug 03 - 07:35 PM The death throes of the Patriarchal Age are getting more strident and violent, aren't they? What I found most disturbing is what I've put in bold in the following from the chonology link: Aug. 25, 2003: Monument supporters file suit in federal court in Mobile seeking to block the monument's removal. It is filed on behalf of two Alabama residents described as Christians who believe "the United States was founded upon Jesus Christ" and their freedom of religion is being violated. I'd say those folks need to be rounded up and made to go through a history course. They should be able to answer questions about US history the same way in which candidates for naturalisation do. In the meantime, as my daughter's fav. bumper sticker says, "God protect me from your followers!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: Bill D Date: 27 Aug 03 - 07:41 PM "came down the mountain" If a omnicient Supreme Diety, no matter what you want to call it, wants to impose a strict set of rules, it, being all-knowing, ought to realize that someone has to go up that mountain and be reminded clearly and without ambiguity more often than every few thousand years! We poor mortals, who think we have free will, keep developing alternate opinions about the matter. If authority in these matters is simply entrusted to generations of clergy who interpret to suit their own self-interest, is it any wonder that 'doubt' has ensued? I draw one kind of conclusion from this situation, others see it differently. The **ONLY** solution to disagreements of this sort is for everyone to act/worship/behave/believe etc., as they wish, in private and not try to impose specific moral and religious codes on the public at large. What would that mean to those whose idea of proper behavior is to 'witness', 'preach' and 'spread the good news'? It would mean quite a problem, huh? Remember the cute line, "your right to swing your fist ends at my nose"? boy, I wish it were all easier..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: GUEST Date: 27 Aug 03 - 08:01 PM Well akenaton, I agree with you 1000%, but would also point out that all politicians profess to believe in some mainstream religion, Blair and Bush included. But that doesn't make any of them sincere about their professed beliefs, as the course of history and current events amply demonstrates. So the question becomes, how intelligent does one have to be to manipulate the religious fervor of sheep? Now, before you all jump on my case, I am referring to the Xtian Loonie shepherds herding their flocks, and parading before their false gods, the Fox and CNN camera crews. I have no quarrel with folks who just go about their religious business without attempting to dictate their personal relgious (s)creeds to the general public, their neighbors, friends, work colleagues, children's teachers, public librarians, the local and national media, the judiciary, Congress, and all administrative branches of government. Whoever the ringleader guy is down there in Montgomery, I just saw him ranting on MSNBC. When asked, he said he absolutely would not allow religious representatives of ANY religion but his to have decorative (please, let's not get carried away and refer to the monument as art) representations publicly displayed in the courthouse in a constitutionally allowed manner. Something about Hare Krishnas and MUSLIMS not being there when this country was founded. He also didn't say whether his set of commandments were the one, true, proprietary sort of commandments I expect they are. But these loonies are so pig ignorant, they appear not to even know that there is no one, true set of commandments that all Jews and Christians agree upon. But really, we shouldn't confuse them with facts like that. It is so much easier for them to use pictures to tell their story, rather than an articulate argument, in or out of a court of law. Today, there were no struggles among them to read between the lines of the Republican right's patriotic-neurotics righteous scripting of this holy non-event. Thank God we were allowed to witness those manly Xtian men, shaking their fists in anger, screaming their rage to the heavens, to countenance their trembling anguish, right in front of the Fox cameras. Fox knows how to get the ratings--just give us those old time manly Xtian men, defending the commandments in a self-righteously sexy (in a Charlton Heston as Moses sort of way) to the REAL feminine flock of Professional Christian Wives and Daughters. The pictures at 10 will soon have those sinning women begging their masters to discipline them. They shall pronate their sinful, trembling, lascivious flesh in missionary positions under their NASCAR bubbas, and it will all be SO HOT in a Xtian Loonies sexualized way, that they all will continue their protest in Montgomery, and worshipping at the sacred altar of Fox all the way through the September sweeps... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: akenaton Date: 27 Aug 03 - 08:09 PM GUEST Very true....and very funny.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: Bill D Date: 27 Aug 03 - 08:23 PM oh, crap, 'guest'... it gets tiresome when someone on my side of the issue gets so carried away with nasty rhetortic that the message is lost in the stream of invective and verbal 'dumping'! You can make a point without the layers of hyperbolé, can't you?...No, I guess not... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: GUEST Date: 27 Aug 03 - 08:24 PM They are just getting started though--I hear Wrong Rev Attorney General of the Xtian Soldiers fired the opening shot in the porn wars today, just in time for September sweeps. You have to keep feeding the Xtian loonie men, you see. This way, they can be tantalized and titillated with clips from porn films showing manly men humiliating, mutilating, and raping emancipated women and bimbos who are sexually unattainable to dumb ass men like themselves. The war porn syndrome has worn off. They need something sexier for the sweeps to keep Fox (ahem) on top. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: GUEST Date: 27 Aug 03 - 08:30 PM Bill D, your prudery and humor deficit is living proof of why mainstream US society remains to the religious right of everyone on the planet except the ayatollahs and a handful of Hindu fundamentalists. Please God, spare us from sanctimonious American posters, and deliver them to extolling their virtuousness in their own damn thread of self-righteous indignation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: artbrooks Date: 27 Aug 03 - 08:58 PM This thread actually started off as an interesting discussion. It's a shame ANON.GUEST decided to switch back to his/her/its normal line of pseudo-intellectual gratuitous insults. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: Don Firth Date: 27 Aug 03 - 09:01 PM You're starting to lose it, GUEST. . . . Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: GUEST,heric Date: 27 Aug 03 - 09:03 PM Oh, this is the guest who says "whilst?" i didn't even know he was gendered to the feminine. I went into the pro shop today at a golf course today, and a woman was there, telling the pro she got stung by a bee at the second hole. He didn't even pause or look up but just told her to "tighten your stance" (??) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: GUEST Date: 27 Aug 03 - 09:08 PM Don Firth, I beg to differ. I have lost nothing. My sense of humor and irony is fully intact. Although I do understand such things as a sense of humor and irony are often lost on more than a few American posters here. I see all the usual Mudcat suspects have twitchy troll trigger fingers tonight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: GUEST,heric Date: 27 Aug 03 - 09:23 PM All the usual suspects would be artbrooks, Don Firth, and GUEST,heric? The Three Amigos? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: akenaton Date: 27 Aug 03 - 09:30 PM I think your being unfair on GUEST...these fundamentalists deserve to be exposed in a forthright manner ...If they got the upper hand we would all be squealing.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: GUEST,pdq Date: 27 Aug 03 - 10:09 PM Don Firth: Why don't you do a better job of choosing your friends. You and guest "jerk" are bookends when it suits your purposes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: GUEST Date: 27 Aug 03 - 10:20 PM My, my you boys blush easily at a bit of harmless sexual innuendo. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: GUEST Date: 27 Aug 03 - 10:42 PM Sorry I can't help myself fellas. But I have found the solution to the commandment crisis: Click here! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: wysiwyg Date: 27 Aug 03 - 10:47 PM (hi Bill) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: Bobert Date: 27 Aug 03 - 11:12 PM (hi, bill, part 2) Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: Deckman Date: 27 Aug 03 - 11:22 PM Hi Don ... YAWN! ... Oooopes! Excuse me please. I was sooooo bored while reading this stupid thread that I guess I just sorta fell asleep for a few moments. There are a couple of things that really confuse me about a subject like this, as you and I have said in person several times. First of all is the stupidity of the subject! You have your GAWD, I have mine. Mine is not yours ... yours is not mine. What's the issue? You have NO authority to force your GAWD on me, Nor do I. Recognising that, everything said elsewise is .... verrrrry .... booring! Looking forward to seeing you Sunday. The shop is very clean, the acoustics are swell, Judy is cooking like crazy. (yawn) CHEERS, Bob |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: Donuel Date: 28 Aug 03 - 12:09 AM The FUNNIEST part of the fired judge's protest speech was when he said "We are tired of sodomy in our streets" Are they just bored or is Montgomery AL really a wild and crazy town. Heck I have never even seen that in Los Vegas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christian Loonies Lose It in Montgomery From: GUEST Date: 28 Aug 03 - 12:19 AM Ah, best watch your step defending me akenaton. These guys take things way too personally, I suppose because they are just such good Christians. They aren't in any way tolerant of agnostics like myself, who are so joyously irreverent about Christians generally and Christianity in particular. They are deeply insulted when agnostics come in here and challenge their pious sense of themselves as Christians. It's always THOSE Christians who are the problem, never themselves. So they claim my irreverence about their Christianity is an insult and an affront to them. Never mind how insulted and affronted some of the rest of us are by organized religion generally, and Christianity specifically. C'est la guerre. |
