Three Score and Ten - What event?

Subject: Three Score and Ten - What event?
From: Mark II
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 01:27 PM

The song 'Three Score And Ten' presumably refers to a violent storm in the North Sea that took the lives of many fishermen. Does anyone know exactly when this event took place?

Subject: RE: Three Score and Ten - What event?
From: MMario
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 01:38 PM

go here

url = http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=4291#23430

Subject: RE: Three Score and Ten - What event?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 02:58 PM

The excellent sea-and-Irish singing group Hogeye Navvy, here in Indianapolis, sing this. I BELIEVE in their introduction they place it in October of 1892.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Three Score and Ten - What event?
From: Mark II
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 03:02 PM

Thanks Mmario

Mark

Subject: RE: Three Score and Ten - What event?
From: GUEST,Nancy King
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 04:09 PM

Hmmm--I've always thought "Three Score and Ten" was about the terrible North Sea storm and flood of Jan. 31, 1953. I believe that's what we were told when we were visiting the fisheries museum in Grimsby a few years ago. --Nancy

Subject: RE: Three Score and Ten - What event?
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 05:55 PM

Nancy, I think they Grimsby tour guides are using a fair bit of latitude here. Most of the fatalities of that terrible night were from flooding, concentrated in Canvey Island in Essex. It was the lower North Sea that filled up with a succesion of Easterly winds, that backed suddenly to cause extensive flooding, and loss of life in the Low Countries. High winds did cause the tragedy, but this epic song, I think, commemorates a storm during the 19th century.

Skipjack (On the Essex coast tonight, and loving it!)

Subject: RE: Three Score and Ten - What event?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 07:19 PM

Hogeye Navvy's lead singer in this song, in her introduction, gives a little more detail that might be of interest:

It seems there was a retired fisherman who made a practice of writing ballads, largely about wrecks and disasters, which he had printed and sold, and donated the proceeds to the survivors of the crews. Three Score and Ten was one of them.

In any case, DEFINITELY a lot older than 1953, for goodness sakes!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Three Score and Ten - What event?
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 08 Feb 00 - 05:46 PM

This is what Roy Palmer says:

[1988:] In Memoriam of the poor Fisherman who lost their lives in the Dreadful Gale from Grimsby & Hull, Feb. 8 & 9, 1889 is the title of a broadside produced by a Grimsby fisherman, William Delf [or Delph], to raise funds for the bereaved families. It lists 8 lost vessels, the last 2 from Hull: Eton, John Wintringham, Sea Searcher, Sir Fred, Roberts, British Workman, Kitten, Harold, Adventure & Olive Branch. In addition the names of some of the lost sailors are given, & there is a poem in 8 stanzas. This passed into oral tradition & in doing so lost 6 verses & aquired a new one (the last, in which an error of date occurs), together with a chorus & a tune. The oral version was noted from a master mariner, Mr. J. Pearson of Filey, in 1957, & has subsequently, with some futher small variations, become well known in folk-song clubs". " (Palmer, Oxford Book of Sea Songs)

Subject: RE: Three Score and Ten - What event?
From: MMario
Date: 08 Feb 00 - 09:52 PM

which is what you would have read in the link above.....

Subject: RE: Three Score and Ten - What event?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 08 Feb 00 - 10:36 PM

This is why I love the Mudcat. I've wondered about this song for years. Thanks, all!

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Three Score and Ten - What event?
From: GeorgeH
Date: 09 Feb 00 - 06:03 AM

MMario re the ealier link - only if you scrolled up!! ;-) (why is it that links seem to go into the middle of a thread??).

I knew when that earlier thread came up that I'd seen some info. on this . . The Watersons recorded the song on their first LP, and they are widely credited with popularising it. That recording features on a Topic LP sampler (TPS 166) we have, with no date (but certainly predating Palmer's comments of 1988). In the sleeve notes Bill Leader comments on visiting Padstow (Cornwall, in the SW of England) to record the Hobby Horse celebrations. He says that Three Score and Ten was the song he heard most often, a local singer having learnt it from the Watersons and popularised it in the area. He gives the storm's date and author of the song [as Delph] but makes no mention of the broadside. Palmer says that the Watersons learnt the song from "a recording of some Whitby singers that Mr & Mrs Huddleston, the Yorkshire song collectors" had made.

G.

Subject: RE: Three Score and Ten - What event?
From: MudGuard
Date: 09 Feb 00 - 06:30 AM

The link goes to the middle of a thread if it has the id number of the posting attached. If you look at the url there is
the protocol used: "http:"
the website: "www.mudcat.org"
the page: "thread.cfm"
the thread: "threadid=4291"
and finally the posting id: "23430"
(of course there are some characters in between to mark where which part starts).
HTH,
MudGuard

Subject: RE: Three Score and Ten - What event?
From: GeorgeH
Date: 09 Feb 00 - 12:38 PM

Thanks, MudGuard . . so it looks as if MMario pointed to the wrong posting and so skw has a good excuse for duplicating the information . . ;-)

G.