BS: A Declaration of Impeachment

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 12:06 PM

There is a close correlation between the merit of impeaching someone and the crimes they commit, T. Don't get all weaselly on me, now.



A

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 04:50 PM

Ah, but Amos, for the alleged crimes to be brought to trial there has to be evidence, and that evidence has to stand up to fairly well defined "Rules of Evidence".

Now you and others on this forum, on this and on many other threads have been repeatedly asked to provide the evidence which you yourself have said is abundant. Only thing that puzzles me is that to date you, and those others, have singularly failed to do so.

All you have ever offered is "opinion", sometimes even your own, but not one shred of evidence.

Find anything "weaselly" in that summation Amos??

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 05:03 PM

Ah, Teribus.

The promulgation of false pretexts for waging war is a fact.

The unilateral invasion of a non-combatant sovereign nation is a fact.

The evasion of law through means of various signing statements is a fact.

There are many, many others.

I am not going to be lured ionto your posturing rhetoric, while you pretend you have not seen the evidence, because it would not much matter to you WHAT evidence appeared; your mind is made up in a frozen rut of militant justification, which no reason can thaw.

Ciao.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Sawzaw
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 12:07 PM

"But our findings indicate that emergency departments serve as a safety net, not just for the poor and uninsured, but for mainstream Americans, and in particular those with serious and chronic illness."

The 1986 Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act requires any hospital taking part in Medicare -- the state-federal health care insurance program for the elderly and disabled -- to provide "appropriate medical screening" to anyone showing up at an emergency room and asking for it.

Sylvia de Vries and her husband drained their life savings so she could have life-saving cancer surgery in 2006 in the United States.

De Vries's Toronto lawyer Kate Sellar said there is no point going to the appeal board because a prior agreement form was not obtained, and the appeal will be denied on that basis.

the above poster's definition of "complain"

I never defined complain.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 04:40 PM

"After President Bush's reelection, elements of the left began their own attack on his legitimacy, talking of impeachment while repeating lunatic theories about deception and criminality. "


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/04/AR2008110404477.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 06:01 PM

Nothing lunatic about them, Bruce. He was already deeply enmeshed in his swamp of deceptions and criminality by 2004.



A

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 07:08 PM

I notice that says, "appropriate medical screening", not "free appropriate medical screening".

People still have to pay.


Anyway, it's all moot now. Obama is now the president elect.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Sawzaw
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 10:05 PM

Are you going to back pedal and revise your assertion a second time?

Was it free for Sylvia de Vries?

Mountain-bike enthusiast Suzanne Aucoin had to fight more than her Stage IV colon cancer. Her doctor suggested Erbitux—a proven cancer drug that targets cancer cells exclusively, unlike conventional chemotherapies that more crudely kill all fast-growing cells in the body—and Aucoin went to a clinic to begin treatment. But if Erbitux offered hope, Aucoin's insurance didn't: she received one inscrutable form letter after another, rejecting her claim for reimbursement. Yet another example of the callous hand of managed care, depriving someone of needed medical help, right? Guess again. Erbitux is standard treatment, covered by insurance companies—in the United States. Aucoin lives in Ontario, Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:02 PM

No, I'm not revising anything. There may be people in Canada who can't get some treatements, but there are many, many more in the US who can't get the treatments they need. Many, many, many more.

Anyway, I'm finished with these discussions. Obama has been elected, and I'm moving on to other pressing matters.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Sawzaw
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:18 PM

You did not say some people in Canada cannot get treatments, You said health care in Canada is every bit as good as the health care here.

And you don't want to discuss anything positive or anything good that is being done in the world by a US organization without help or support or direction by the US government like Pro Mujer.

I believe you want everyone to depend on the government for everything, not on themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:21 PM

That a facile, uncharitable belief to have about someone; in fact I suspect you don't believe it, but are simply using one of your weary right-wing 78RPM talking points to avoid thinking about the person you pretend to be talking to.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 01:18 PM

I am happy to announce that in light of the recent revitalization of the United States caused by the election of President Elect Obama, I feel free to discontinue my updating to this thread.

It has been an onerous duty, but one that for many years I felt had to be done as a small contribution to the conscience of the country.

I am glad to turn my back on the ugly discolored Bush years and look forward to something a little more rational, and more in keeping with the deep and undying spirit of the American people.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 05:20 PM

I missed Sawzaw's post of a couple days ago..

"
And regardless of your shrill claim about no MEDICAL CARE WHATEVER, emergency rooms are the safety net as per law.

A couple years ago, the 3rd largest hospital in my area said that they were being SEVERELY tested, both in time and money, due to the overwhelming strain on their emergency room, caused by being the "safety net" for immigrants and other poor classes who had no other option. These are people who could have avoided GOING to the ER if they had doctors or clinics available, and could have headed off minor symptoms becoming major!

   When you consider also, that many people don't live near enough TO an ER to do much good, the need for some sort of clinics and doctors in rural locales which don't demand payment for treatment. Right now, it is only a few decent doctors who essentially write off certain charges who keep many folks going.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 05:39 PM

I just did the math on how many patients each and every doctor in the US would have to take on for free if we were going to deal with the millions of people who are uninsured by expecting doctors to donate their services.

If we were going to expect doctors providing services for free to be our solution to the uninsured in this country, each doctor in the US would have to take on seven patients whose care they would provide for free.

The other problem is that even if someone could get all of their care donated to them by a doctor, that wouldn't pay for the tests, medications, hospitalizations, and other treatments that they might need, none of which anyone could expect would be donated by the people who provide those services.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Sawzaw
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 01:15 AM

"the recent revitalization of the United States"

Dow        8,695.79        -443.48        -4.85%



I am glad to see that CC is doing the math. Is it workable?

I think the best thing to do is get the cost of health care down somehow so that people can afford it. Then so many people wouldn't be locked out because of pre existing conditions.

One thing that makes it so high is medical insurance and law suits. There should be caps. I think Obama supports that. I salute him for that.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 07:33 AM

People say that one of the reasons we shouldn't have universal health care is because doctors would get paid less, and that would mean we would have fewer doctors and they wouldn't be as good. Then in the next breath they say that the real solution is to lower the cost of health care. Lowering the cost of health care would mean that doctors would get paid less (which would mean we would have fewer doctors and they wouldn't be as good?). Nobody ever seems to think of that.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 10:29 AM

Sawz:

The recent revitalization of the United States is not going to be reflected in the Dow Jones average. To look there for evidence of it is kinda dumb.

Look at Colin Powell in tears, at the face of Jesse Jackson. Look here:

http://warner.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/06/title/.

Maybe you will understand. Maybe you won't.

The economic picture will change. But it will lag the change of the nation by a significant period.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 11:48 AM

Compliments of the Season to you Amos.......Now into December and let's see:

Karl Rove not in prison and no apparent sign of any activity whatsoever that anybody is looking to put him there.

Vice-President Dick Cheney not impeached and no sign of any "Impeachment" proceedings. The attempt to arraign him down there in Texas seems to have stalled completely and its most probable outcome looks as though the clown that instigated proceedings will be charged with wasting the courts time.

President George W. Bush not impeached and no sign of any "Impeachment" proceedings.

Only one more to go Amos looking forward to January when we can finally put this to bed.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 12:15 PM

It's all right with me. The wheels of justice grind exceeding slow, and all that. But as far as impeachment, the incredible urgency that we break out of the loop of criminality governing the nation has been otherwise accomplished. Bush will drift into obscurity as the least successful and most derelict President in our history. There are a few bright spots during his term that he can be credited with but they are vastly overshadowed by his complete ineptitude as a diplomat, a thinker, a speaker, a strategist, a commander, and a leader.

Stick a fork into the lamest duck yet known to duckdom. He's done. I think we've found a preferable path outward and upward.



A

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Sawzaw
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 11:17 AM

Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

By MIKE ROBINSON, Associated Press

CHICAGO – Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich was arrested Tuesday on charges of conspiring to get financial benefits through his authority to appoint a U.S. senator to fill the vacancy left by Barack Obama's election as president.

According to a federal criminal complaint, Blagojevich also was charged with illegally threatening to withhold state assistance to Tribune Co., the owner of the Chicago Tribune, in the sale of Wrigley Field. In return for state assistance, Blagojevich allegedly wanted members of the paper's editorial board who had been critical of him fired.

A 76-page FBI affidavit said the 51-year-old Democratic governor was intercepted on court-authorized wiretaps over the last month conspiring to sell or trade the vacant Senate seat for personal benefits for himself and his wife, Patti.

The affidavit said Blagojevich discussed getting a substantial salary for himself at a nonprofit foundation or an organization affiliated with labor unions.

It said that Blagojevich also talked about getting his wife placed on corporate boards where she might get $150,000 a year in director's fees.

He also allegedly discussed getting campaign funds for himself or possibly a post in the president's cabinet or an ambassadorship once he left the governor's office.

"I want to make money," the affidavit quotes him as saying in one conversation.

U.S. Attorney Patrick J. Fitzgerald said in a statement that "the breadth of corruption laid out in these charges is staggering."

"They allege that Blagojevich put a for sale sign on the naming of a United States senator," Fitzgerald said."

Among those being considered for the post include U.S. Reps. Danny Davis and Jesse Jackson Jr.

Blagojevich also was charged with using his authority as governor in an attempt to squeeze out campaign contributions.

His chief of staff, John Harris, also was arrested.

Both men were expected to appear later Tuesday before a federal magistrate in Chicago.

Corruption in the Blagojevich administration has been the focus of a federal investigation involving an alleged $7 million scheme aimed at squeezing kickbacks out of companies seeking business from the state. Federal prosecutors have acknowledged they're also investigating "serious allegations of endemic hiring fraud" under Blagojevich.

Political fundraiser Antoin "Tony" Rezko who raised money for the campaigns of both Blagojevich and Obama is awaiting sentencing after being convicted of fraud and other charges. Blagojevich's chief fundraiser, Christopher G. Kelly, is due to stand trial early next year on charges of obstructing the Internal Revenue Service.

Blagojevich took the chief executive's office in 2003 as a reformer promising to clean up former Gov. George Ryan's mess.

Ryan, a Republican, is serving a 6-year prison sentence after being convicted on racketeering and fraud charges. A decade-long investigation began with the sale of driver's licenses for bribes and led to the conviction of dozens of people who worked for Ryan when he was secretary of state and governor.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:47 PM

Nice to see you, Sawzall! WHat are you doing these days?



A

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 03:13 PM

4:42 p.m. Dec. 6
US military deaths in Iraq war at 4,209


As of Saturday, Dec. 6, 2008, at least 4,209 members of the U.S. military have died in the Iraq war since it began in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Teribus
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 08:39 PM

"4,209 members of the U.S. military have died in the Iraq war since it began in March 2003" - Amos

OK Amos as horrible as that is let's put things into perspective here. Reported on BBC today was that in Mexico those who are part of drug cartels/gangs - casualties (killed) THIS YEAR = 5400+

Tell me Amos how many Americans have been killed on roads in the US this year?

Right now tell me how big a disaster is Iraq?? How big a failure is Afghanistan?? You and your fellow travellers would have denied those people their opportunity to choose and condemned them to living under the repressive regimes that were their only means of existence. Tell me Amos what was the count of those killed by terrorists 1993 to 2003?? Tell me what it was 1983 to 1993?? One more time tell me what it was from 1973 to 1983?? Having gone through all that now tell if things have progressively got better??

The man that you, personally, have chosen to revile and hate, has probably done more good than you will ever realise. Why?? Because he has given the forces of evil; and Amos terrorists are evil, pause for though, they now fully realise that America, as well as Russia can and will act decisively.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 09:26 PM

I concur completely that I will probably never realize all the good the man has done.

The rest of your paean, though, is based on some ungenerous projections about those who prefer other means than violence to achieve the ends of diplomacy, a view which you have long since lost the ability to appreciate. It is also predicated on a calculus of force as the fundamental means of shifting conditions among people. I think there is a lot of dark blindness in that idea.

A

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 04:51 AM

Diplomacy Amos!!! They want you dead no matter what you say, do, or promise. Tell me Amos what good would it have done Sharon Tate trying to "negotiate" with the Manson Family?? They were going to kill her from the moment they entered that house and nothing save a bullet would have deflected them from that purpose.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 11:25 PM

The notion that you can extend the trait of individual psychosis to nations is so naif and counter-productive as to be really awful. It is one thing to face actual madness, and another thing altogether to use madness as a cheap label on huge numbers of people you do not know and have not communicated with. International relations are not a dark alley with murderers sliding around in them. The entire metaphor is inapt.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Sawzaw
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 11:02 PM

Blago nixed job for Jackson Jr.'s wife
   
DON BABWIN, AP

Shortly after his 2002 election, Gov. Rod Blagojevich told Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. he didn't appoint the congressman's wife as lottery director because he had refused him a $25,000 campaign donation, a person familiar with the conversation told The Associated Press on Tuesday. "Blagojevich went out of his way to say, 'You know I was considering your wife for the lottery job and the $25,000 you didn't give me? That's why she's not getting the job,'" the person said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing federal investigation.

Jackson's name has played prominently ever since Blagojevich was arrested last week on corruption charges, including allegations that he tried to sell or trade President-elect Barack Obama's vacant Senate seat for personal gain.

Jackson has been identified as one of the candidates Blagojevich was considering for the seat, and a criminal complaint said his supporters were willing to raise $1.5 million for the governor if he picked the congressman.

The complaint quotes Blagojevich as saying on federal wiretaps that an associate of the candidate offered to raise money for him if he made the Jackson appointment happen.

Jackson spokesman Kenneth Edmonds declined to comment on the account of the exchange shortly after Blagojevich's 2002 election but said the congressman, the son of civil rights activist Jesse Jackson, has approached federal investigators to discuss the governor and others for years.

"He has shared information with federal prosecutors about public corruption during the past several years, including information about Blagojevich and others," Edmonds said.

Randall Samborn, spokesman for the U.S. attorney's office in Chicago, declined to comment, as did Blagojevich spokesman Lucio Guerrero.

Jackson has openly sought the Senate position but denies initiating or authorizing anyone to promise anything to Blagojevich on his behalf. The congressman has said federal prosecutors told him he is not a target of their investigation.

The person did not know whether Jackson's wife, Sandi, who has since been elected to the Chicago City Council, had asked for the state lottery job. At the time, Blagojevich was the first incoming Democratic governor after years of Republican rule and had scores of state jobs to fill.

"The governor had kind of penciled Sandi in as lottery director and then asked for contributions from the congressman," the person said.

Sandi Jackson did not immediately return a call to her office seeking comment.

In April, the Chicago Tribune reported that an examination of campaign donations to Blagojevich showed that three in four donors who gave exactly $25,000 received administration favors such as state board appointments or contracts.

It's also the same amount of money that figured prominently in the testimony of a government witness in the political corruption trial this summer of political fundraiser Antoin "Tony" Rezko.

Ali Ata, the former executive director of the Illinois Finance Authority, testified that Blagojevich spoke encouragingly about getting him a job in his administration after he personally brought him a $25,000 campaign contribution.

Rezko, who raised more than $1 million for Blagojevich's campaign fund, was convicted of shaking down companies seeking state business for campaign contributions.

The person familiar with Jackson's discussions also said Tuesday that Jackson has spoken with federal investigators about a 2006 meeting with Rezko at which the two discussed a proposed airport in Peotone, long considered a possible location for a third Chicago-area airport.

The person said Rezko told Jackson, a longtime proponent of the airport, that Blagojevich wanted to control the airport's board, but Jackson balked.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Sawzaw
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 10:46 AM

Holder omitted Blagojevich link from questionnaire

Announced as a 'special investigator to the Illinois Gaming Board' in 2004 CHRIS FUSCO Staff Reporter Suntimes.com

     Before Eric Holder was President-elect Barack Obama's choice to be attorney general, he was Gov. Blagojevich's pick to sort out a mess involving Illinois' long-dormant casino license.
     Blagojevich and Holder appeared together at a March 24, 2004, news conference to announce Holder's role as "special investigator to the Illinois Gaming Board" -- a post that was to pay Holder and his Washington, D.C. law firm up to $300,000.
     Holder, however, omitted that event from his 47-page response to a Senate Judiciary Committee questionnaire made public this week -- an oversight he plans to correct after a Chicago Sun-Times inquiry, Obama's transition team indicated late Tuesday.
     "Eric Holder has given hundreds of press interviews," Obama transition spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter said in a statement. "He did his best to report them all to the committee, but as he noted in the questionnaire itself, some were undoubtedly missed in the effort to reconstruct a list of them."
     Holder signed the questionnaire on Sunday -- five days after Blagojevich's arrest for allegedly putting Obama's U.S. Senate seat up for sale. The Judiciary Committee asked him to provide lists and "copies of transcripts or tape recordings of all speeches or talks delivered by you" and "all interviews you have given to newspapers, magazines or other publications."
     The March 2004 Chicago news conference where Holder and Blagojevich spoke was widely covered because of a controversial 4-1 Gaming Board vote earlier that month to allow a casino to be built in Rosemont. That vote defied the recommendation of the board's staff, which had raised concerns about alleged organized-crime links to the Rosemont casino's developer.
     Besides that, the Gaming Board's staff had been concerned that the governor had named his close friend and fund-raiser, Christopher G. Kelly, as a "special government agent" to be involved in official state negotiations about the casino. Kelly, the Sun-Times later learned, was a business partner of Tony Rezko, another Blagojevich fund-raiser who had held an option to lease a hotel site next to the proposed casino site in Rosemont.
     Rezko, also a former Obama fund-raiser, and Kelly both have denied any wrongdoing related to the casino, though both have been charged in separate, unrelated criminal cases since 2004.
     The Sun-Times disclosed Rezko's interest in the Rosemont hotel site about three weeks before the news conference announcing Holder would be involved in the casino case. Holder was not aware of the story when he opted to get involved, a source said.
     In an interview Tuesday, the Gaming Board's chief investigator in 2004 said the timing of Blagojevich's appointment of Holder raised the staff's suspicions.
     "The concern was Holder had a bias to do whatever Blagojevich wanted, which was to give the casino to Rosemont," said Jim Wagner, who was a top Chicago FBI agent before he joined the Gaming Board, from which he retired in December 2005. "We all believed the only reason Holder was coming in was to fashion an investigation that would manipulate the casino into Rosemont."
     Wagner also said the matter should be explored by the Senate Judiciary Committee. "It ought be brought up and vetted totally as to what motivated him to leave it off" the questionnaire, Wagner said.
     At the 2004 press conference, Holder stressed he would be independent.
"The governor's made quite clear to me that he has no preconceived notions as to how this should turn out, that we should follow the facts, let them lead us to wherever they take us and then report to him and to the people of the state with regard to our findings,'' he said.
     Despite the concerns of the Gaming Board's staff, Holder ended up a non-factor in the casino matter. The board -- this time listening to its staff's concerns -- refused to hire him, and Blagojevich on May 18, 2004, said he was scrapping Holder's probe.
     "Holder and his firm did some preliminary work in anticipation of the engagement, but did not undertake the investigation itself before it was canceled," said Cutter, the Obama transition team spokeswoman. "Holder and his firm received no compensation from the state for this preparatory work.
     "The 2004 press conference," she said, "was not memorable because Holder's legal work for the State of Illinois never materialized." The state gaming license once slated to be located in Rosemont has been in limbo since Holder's brief involvement in it. A process to award the license to one of three bidders is expected to wrap up soon. Rosemont -- whose officials long have denied organized crime somehow taints their suburb -- again is a finalist to become home to a casino, along with Waukegan and Des Plaines.
     A former Deputy Attorney General, Holder has faced criticism about his role in President Bill Clinton's controversial pardon of fugitive Marc Rich. His confirmation hearing is to begin Jan. 15.

Change we can believe in?

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Sawzaw
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 12:35 AM

Speaker, attorney general have stormy past with Blagojevich

DON BABWIN AP

CHICAGO -- Long before Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich was arrested on corruption charges, House Speaker Michael Madigan compared him to a tumor and suggested ways to impeach him.
    Before that, the governor had called Madigan -- a fellow Democrat -- a "George Bush Republican" and sued him for instructing Democratic lawmakers to stay home when the governor ordered them to work.
    The tortured relationship between the two is getting a public airing now that Madigan and his daughter, state Attorney General Lisa Madigan, have emerged as key players in determining the future of the embattled governor. The speaker has appointed a panel to consider impeachment, while his daughter has asked the state's highest court to remove Blagojevich from office, claiming he is unfit to serve.
    Both have tried to sound measured in their public comments about the proceedings, but the distrust between the Madigans and the governor runs deep. The relationship started to sour not long after Blagojevich finished taking the oath of office in 2003. After seemingly agreeing on a budget plan with Democratic lawmakers, he went home and vetoed big chunks of it.
    "Speaker Madigan is someone who has operated in an atmosphere when a public official gives his word, it's kept," said Mike Lawrence, former director of the Paul Simon Public Policy Institute. "One of the things that particularly annoyed him is he felt the governor was not good to his word."
    The son of a Democratic precinct captain and ward superintendent on Chicago's southwest side, Madigan has been a member of the House since 1971 -- serving as speaker for 25 years save two years when Republicans took the majority.
    After what happened with Blagojevich's first budget, Madigan and other lawmakers insisted that the governor sign "memorandums of understanding" with them to get his promises on paper. Madigan, a slight man who shows little emotion in public, also has been offended by the bombastic, glad-handing Blagojevich's personal behavior. That was apparent at the 2004 funeral of state Sen. Vince Demuzio.
    "Madigan told me ... Blagojevich was late, he kept the priest awaiting and then he didn't even go to the cemetery," said Charles Wheeler, head of the Public Affairs Reporting program at the University of Illinois at Springfield. "He bopped in, held up the Mass, and you could just tell that to Madigan it was the protocol equivalent of mooning the congregation."
    But Blagojevich hit one of Madigan's biggest nerves -- his sensitivity to suggestions that he got his daughter her job and calls the shots for her -- in 2004, after Lisa Madigan shut down Blagojevich's plan to mortgage the state's Chicago headquarters. She said the move was unconstitutional, but Blagojevich accused her of retaliating against him on her father's behalf.
    "I don't want to get involved in a family deal here but, you know, it's her father," Blagojevich said. "I've got two daughters. I hope they back me on stuff that I do." Lisa Madigan has long been considered a top contender for governor in 2010. A former state senator, she was elected the state's first female attorney general in 2002 and re-elected in 2006.
    The mortgage issue is far from Lisa Madigan's only dustup with Blagojevich. She and other statewide officers met with the governor in 2003 to talk about their budgets and thought they had reached an agreement on cuts. Soon after, Blagojevich publicly doubled those cuts.
    Lisa Madigan's office also investigated allegations of hiring fraud under Blagojevich but halted that investigation in 2006 at the behest of federal prosecutors. At the time, she released a letter from U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald that said his probe had yielded credible witnesses related to "very serious allegations of endemic hiring fraud" -- adding to the governor's public woes.
    The relationship between Michael Madigan and Blagojevich hit a low this summer when The Associated Press reported that Madigan was circulating a memo to legislative candidates instructing them on how to publicly call for hearings to impeach the governor.
    "One thing we learned from the (imprisoned former Gov.) George Ryan case is that we should excise a tumor when it is first discovered; not leave it in the body to continue to spread and do further harm," the memo stated.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 08:57 AM

...A bipartisan report by the Senate Armed Services Committee has made what amounts to a strong case for bringing criminal charges against former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld; his legal counsel, William J. Haynes; and potentially other top officials, including the former White House counsel Alberto Gonzales and David Addington, Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff.

The report shows how actions by these men "led directly" to what happened at Abu Ghraib, in Afghanistan, in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, and in secret C.I.A. prisons.

It said these top officials, charged with defending the Constitution and America's standing in the world, methodically introduced interrogation practices based on illegal tortures devised by Chinese agents during the Korean War. Until the Bush administration, their only use in the United States was to train soldiers to resist what might be done to them if they were captured by a lawless enemy.

The officials then issued legally and morally bankrupt documents to justify their actions, starting with a presidential order saying that the Geneva Conventions did not apply to prisoners of the "war on terror" — the first time any democratic nation had unilaterally reinterpreted the conventions.

NYT

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 10:02 AM

Amos, That is the funniest, most ludicrous, contradictary piece of crap I think I have ever seen you post. I mean really, have you read it??? Here it is again with a bit of common-sense thrown at it:

"...A bipartisan report by the Senate Armed Services Committee has made what amounts to a strong case for bringing criminal charges...."

Simple question here Amos does this Armed Services Comittee recommend filing criminal charges? Or is it the case that it is simply the opinion of the NYT correspondent that it might provide the basis for filing criminal charges, i.e. the aforesaid Senate Armed Services Committee actually said sweet FA about filing criminal charges.

"The report shows how actions by these men "led directly" to what happened at Abu Ghraib, in Afghanistan, in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, and in secret C.I.A. prisons."

What?? Donald Rumsfeld ordered English to stack naked Iraqi prisoners in a pyramid?? Where about in the report does it state that. I think that on closer investigation of what the report said with regard to treatment of prisoners, a minute proportion of personnel exceeded their orders, and that Amos does not equate to "led directly" to, not by a bloody long shot. Do you know how many prisoners passed through those establishments?? Do you know how many did so unharmed?? One thing I can tell you for certain Amos, especially with regard to Abu Ghraib, damn sight more came out unscathed from being in US custody than ever did when Saddam ran the place.


Oh, this bit is priceless:

"It said these top officials, charged with defending the Constitution and America's standing in the world, methodically introduced interrogation practices based on illegal tortures devised by Chinese agents during the Korean War."

Eh?? "charged with defending the Constitution and America's standing in the world" Where on earth did the pillock who wrote this rubbish come up with that requirement. I can just see Obama come January 19th 2009 standing there at his inauguration trotting that line out:

"I hereby solemnly swear to protect and uphold the Constitution of the United States of America and the standing of America in the eyes of the World"

Absolutely brilliant!! Little hint here Amos, when it comes to defending the security of the United States of America, as far as all those "officials" goes, including you President, it is America first and foremost, that consideration above all else to the exclusion of all others, and the perception of America held by anyone outside the USA can go hang, if they didn't think that way they need sacking.

"Until the Bush administration, their only use in the United States was to train soldiers to resist what might be done to them if they were captured by a lawless enemy."

Take it the NYT is talking about "water-boarding" here eh, Amos? Now you tell me what makes that sentence idiotically ludicrous beyond belief?? Oh don't bother Amos, I'll tell you - This prat from the NYT is saying that it is perfectly OK to "water-board" your own soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines as part of their training, but it is a heinous crime against humanity to do the same to people trying their absolute damnedest to destroy you. I don't know about you Amos but I'd call that Bullshit.

On another thread Weelittledrummer put it perfectly, but paraphrased it goes something like this - If you go to war, make damn sure you win at all costs".

The NYT Prat, whose piece you felt sufficiently moved to post here then comes out with this classic:

"The officials then issued legally and morally bankrupt documents to justify their actions, starting with a presidential order saying that the Geneva Conventions did not apply to prisoners of the "war on terror" — the first time any democratic nation had unilaterally reinterpreted the conventions."

The President is quite correct, Geneva Conventions do not and should not apply to prisoners of the "war on terror". Reason behind that being that terrorists do not give two hoots for the Geneva Convention and as such they can hardly bleat about it applying to them when they themselves do not extend its protections to others in the prosecution of the acts of violence. Do you want a list of infringements of Geneva Conventions by terrorist Groups Amos??? Or do you agree with the writer of this sorry article that only democratic nations must be hampered and disadvantaged by having to obey the Geneva Conventions, while all others blythely ignore them - grow up. War IS hell, you therefore make sure that it is as short as possible and that your side wins - otherwise don't fight wars.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 11:06 AM

Good advice indeed, T. Especially the last line. Your belly-laugh, though, is a sorry piece of rationalization, AFAIAC.

A

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 11:16 AM

"Environmental groups and members of the Senate and House of Representatives are working desperately to head off Interior Department plans to auction wilderness land in Utah for exploration by oil and gas companies.

Actor Robert Redford spoke from Utah via satellite during a Wednesday press conference held by opponents of the auction. Introduced as "a tireless advocate for the environment," he began by saying, "I have spent much of my adult life in these lands. ... For me, it's an emotional point."

"What you keep getting shocked about is how devious and secretive -- and basically, in my mind, morally criminal -- their behavior has been," Redford said of the Bush administration. "These lands are not Cheney's and Bush's. The lands are ours. ... They're part of our legacy."

"Bush may be a lame duck, but he could still quack," Redford insisted. "We just can't let it happen."

Redford, however, described himself as "pretty encouraged" by President-elect Obama's nomination of Ken Salazar for Interior Secretary. "I think very highly of him," Redford concluded.

According to a press release from the Natural Resources Defense Council, several environmental advocacy groups will challenge the Bush's administration in court in an attempt to head off Friday's auction."

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Sawzaw
Date: 21 Dec 08 - 02:40 AM

Before he went to work for Obama, David Axelrod spent years working for the Daley Chicago Political Machine.

In 2005, when U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald was investigating corruption in Illinois. Axelrod attacked him for trying to criminalize the sleazy style of politics in Chicago.

In an op-ed piece Axelrod insisted that trading political favors -- including jobs, known as 'pay for play' these days -- is an essential part of the process that makes government work although Obama has called for the resignation of Blagojevich for doing the same.

Axelrod has been the liaison between the Daley Machine and Barack Obama giving him the White House Senior Adviser post.

Change is coming, change we can believe in.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Sawzaw
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 11:44 PM

Illinois panel recommends governor's impeachment

Fri Jan 9, 2009 Reuters UK

By Michael Conlon and Andrew Stern

CHICAGO (Reuters) - A legislative committee on Thursday recommended the impeachment of Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich, citing widespread abuse of power including allegations he tried to sell the U.S. Senate seat vacated by President-elect Barack Obama.

If the Illinois House of Representatives votes to accept the recommendation from its investigating committee and impeach Blagojevich, he would be tried in the state Senate and face removal from office if convicted.

The two-term Democrat has denied any wrong-doing. He issued a statement saying the impeachment proceedings "were flawed, biased and did not follow the rules of law. ... When the case moves to the Senate, an actual judge will preside over the hearings, and ... the outcome will be much different."

The Illinois House could vote as soon as Friday to approve the impeachment. How soon a trial could begin was not clear.

The 21-member House committee -- 12 Democrats and nine Republicans -- voted unanimously to recommend impeachment and conviction, along with the governor's removal from office and a ban on his ever holding public office in the state again.

The committee launched hearings in the state capital, Springfield, a week after FBI agents arrested Blagojevich in December on charges he conspired to commit fraud and solicit bribes.

The charges were supported by a criminal complaint that detailed conversations laced with profanity culled from two months of court-approved wiretaps on the governor's phones.

The committee's report described as "shocking" the governor's efforts to exchange the Senate appointment for campaign contributions or high-paid jobs for him or his wife......

http://uk.reuters.com/article/usTopNews/idUKTRE5078FV20090109

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 11:56 PM

Impeach him? Why, he never caused a single death!! What are y'all so riled about?

A

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Sawzaw
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 01:46 AM

Legislators vote to impeach Blagojevich

Speaker of the House Michael Madigan presides over the Illinois House of Representatives as they discuss a resolution to impeach Governor Rod Blagojevich today in Springfield, Illinois. The House approved the resolution to impeach 114-1 with one member voting present.

By Ray Long and Rick Pearson January 10, 2009

Reporting from Springfield, Ill. -- The Illinois House voted Friday to impeach disgraced Gov. Rod R. Blagojevich and send him to trial in the Senate with the aim of removing the two-term Democrat from state public office forever.

The governor's Dec. 9 arrest on corruption charges was the trigger, but lawmakers unloaded six years of grievances in a swift 114-1 vote. Their action made the state's 40th governor the first in state history to be impeached.

Representatives cast aside Blagojevich's declarations of innocence, saying there was no place in government for a man who ran roughshod over the Legislature, wasted millions of dollars in state money and sought to sell state contracts and the U.S. Senate seat vacated by President-elect Barack Obama.

"It's our duty to clean up the mess and to stop the freak show which has become Illinois government," said Democratic state Rep. Jack Franks, a longtime Blagojevich critic.

Blagojevich, who has resisted calls for his resignation from state and national leaders, including Obama, was jogging near his Chicago home when lawmakers voted........

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 02:01 AM

Wot!!!!! No impeachment???????

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 08:38 AM

Drool on, T.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 12:32 PM

Methinks Amos is the drooler.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 12:45 PM

Your sense of virtue, old Saw, is inverted, and you are deep in a sorry mire.

May you find your way out

A.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 12:16 PM

Let me see if I can make logic of this. Amos started this thread drooling over the impending impeachment of GWB which was a total failure.

But I am the one that is in error.

Amos brought us this "truth" that we might never have know about without his drooling fervor over a lost cause:

The Green Party of California General Assembly recently approved a resolution calling for the impeachment and consequent removal from office of President George W. Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales for violating their constitutional oaths and committing "high crimes and misdemeanors."

Among the alleged violations listed in the resolution are:

+ Ordering warrantless searches and seizures of American citizens' personal communications, without oversight by the legislative or judicial branches of the government..

But where is hue and cry for impeachment for Rep McDermott, ranking Democrat of the House Ethics Committee after he does this which Amos fails to inform us about?

Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Wash., who traveled to Baghdad last fall and pronounced President Bush a liar, accepted a cash payment less than a month later from an Iraqi-American businessman with ties to Saddam Hussein.

McDermott collected the payment from Shakir al-Khafaji, the same Detroit-based Baghdad supporter who paid former U.N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter $400,000 to make a pro-Saddam documentary about Iraq.

Appearing live from Baghdad on the Sept. 29 broadcast of ABC's "This Week," McDermott proclaimed, "The president of the United States will lie to the American people in order to get us into this war." The comment generated a firestorm of criticism in the U.S. that earned him the moniker, "Baghdad Jim."

A little less than a month later, on Oct. 25, McDermott accepted a check from al-Khafaji for $5,000, made out to the antiwar Democrat's "Legal Expense Trust."

McDermott set up the trust to fend off a lawsuit filed by Ohio Republican John Boehner stemming from McDermott's relationship with a Florida couple who wiretapped a 1997 conference call between Boehner and then-Speaker Newt Gingrich, along with several other Republicans.

According to Amos, People like McDermott are the good guys. They get a pass when doing something illegal as long as they are Anti-War.


Yes Amos, by your own personal version of logic, you are always right.

All Hail Amos!!

Anybody that disagrees with his lynch mob mentality is simply wrong and needs to convert.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 01:05 PM

Except that I was not drooling, and I never started a thread about McDermott, about whom I know nothing, and it seems highly tangential, irrelevant, and non sequitur for you to accuse me of not mentioning him in a thread about people's views about Bush being impeached for violation of the Constitution.

And violate the Constitution he did.

His string of offenses are legion. Why you defended him all these years really escapes me, because you have never come out and said why with any credibility.

But in any case, we now have an intelligent, coherent, literate President who can understand principles, knows the Constitution and is committed to fundamental decency.

Let's let this thread die, therefore--there will be n impeachment of the Bushies, and if they are ever prosecuted for their malfeasance, it should be the subject of a different thread.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 01:32 PM

Amos:

I never defended GWB I just objected to and pointed out the fallacies in the lynch mob mentality you represent, therefore I do not have to defend something I did not do.

I have also pointed out the failure of your lynch mob tactics.

Now you are defending McDermott who was legally charged.

I assume you would like to have this tread die to conceal your excess political enthusiasm which is now becoming obvious.

While your "intelligent, coherent, literate President who can understand principles, knows the Constitution and is committed to fundamental decency" is on the job:

Karzai condemns killing of 16 Afghan civilians by US forces 25/01/09

Afghan President Hamid Karzai Sunday condemned a US military raid in eastern Afghanistan that he said killed 16 civilians, while hundreds of local villagers took to streets to denounce the US military and central government, dpa reported.

In a statement issued by his office, Karzai condemned the US military raid in Mehtar Lam district of eastern Laghman province on Friday which, he said, resulted in death of 16 civilians including two women and three children.

"Bombing Afghan villages, except for killing civilians, does not yield any other progress in the fight against terrorism," the president said in the statement.

Karzai asked for an immediate end to civilian killings and deemed the "uncoordinated attacks" as "factors that weaken the Afghan government and strengthen terrorists."

Whilst:

President Karzai Telephones US Former President, George W. Bush
January 24, 2009

President Hamid Karzai Saturday called George W. Bush, the former President of the United States.

During the conversation, President Karzai admired and thanked Mr. Bush for the efforts he made during his presidency in strengthening bilateral ties between the US and Afghanistan and extended his best wishes to him.
In return Mr. Bush also wished Afghans prosperity and success.

How long will it take you to crank up a similar Obama thread?

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 01:32 PM

There was no impeachment proceedings initiated against President George W. Bush, or against Vice-President Dick Cheney because there were no grounds for Impeachment in the first place.

That is the truth that Amos, et al, failed to see, and continually failed to acknowledge when time after time they were asked to produce a single piece of evidence to substantiate their claims.

But I agree whole-heartedly that it is high time that this thread is put out of its misery.

By the bye what's that star of the democrat liberal left, Dennis Kucinich, beating his gums about these days. Surprised someone so talented didn't get some form of senior position in Obama's administration.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 01:40 PM

T:

You are deeply misled about grounds for impeachment. Thousands of cruel deaths have been laid at the doorstep of Bush's Axis of Weasels, and your glib ignoral of the matter is a reflection on your own intransigence, not the facts of the matter.

He should have been prosecuted long ago. It did not happen.

End of story.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 02:15 PM

Amos is highly talented in rhetoric but seriously impaired in logic.

50 billion people claiming something is true does not make it true.

Remember the "fact" that tomatoes are poison? Remember the Duke Lacrosse team did it?

Your "facts" about GWB will eventually be recognized as Urban Myths.

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 02:48 PM

I doubt that Sawz; I suspect your gullibility is likely to surrender first. The idea you might be suckered by a crock of manipulative PR is probably not liekly to sink in very far, though.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 03:21 PM

Please explain how I am gullible Amos and what I was suckered into?

What important advance in philosophy did I fail to recognize?

Subject: RE: BS: A Declaration of Impeachment
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 04:25 PM

You have been suckered into a highly canted few of events which has left you defending the unilateral destruction of thousands of lives on spurious grounds, and numerous other fictions in support of the late Administration's incompetence and wrong-headedness as though it was simply and wisely steering the ship of State on its due and inevitable course, rather than running it hard up on a reef through complete failure to navigate well.


A