BS: Sorch Needs MudPower

Subject: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 07:38 PM

NOT BS...and for some of you it may seem fataecious...but my Annie dog is VERY ill....high blood sugar, elevated liver and kidney enzymes, super high white count....vet has no idea, thinks several things are wrong. I think it almost has to be poison of some sort....thoughts for Annie, please? Even if some of you think it's silly.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 07:42 PM

Quick- tell us what she looks like. {{{{hug}}}}}

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: number 6
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 07:46 PM

Not silly at all Sorcha ... hang in there with her.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 07:50 PM

So it wasn't just a passing thing the other day?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: LilyFestre
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 07:54 PM

Awww Sorch,

   I'm sorry to hear about your Annie. :( There's nothing to do or say except that you and Annie are in my thoughts. I was standing in your shoes last month...it's absolutely heartbreaking. Is she at the vet's? Can you go visit to spend some time with her? My vet allowed me to do that and he also let me feed her (with a giant needle-less syringe as she wasn't eating on her own).

Lots of love and hugs for you and Annie.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 07:56 PM

Your love is a potent medicine Sorch.
I spent a quarter hour on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:05 PM

She is a light sable (red and white with black overlay) Pembroke Corgi. No tail, fox face.....and her 'daddy' is in tears over this....only the 2nd time I've ever seen him cry.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Joybell
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:06 PM

Sorcha, you and Annie are in my thoughts too. Love Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Alba
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:12 PM

Och Sorcha..poor wee Annie.
There is nothing silly about asking for good thoughts at all.
Holding Annie and you and her Dad in my thoughts.
Light and Love and {{{{{HUGS}}}}}}
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:13 PM

very sad, I will hum the John denver song and think comforting thoughts

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:16 PM

Love and hugs for you and "dad" plus LOTS of healing thoughts and energy for your dear Annie. (One of my sisters has a westie by that name.)

Keep us posted as you are able, darlin'...

luvyakat

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:18 PM

Ta muchly. We went to see her this eve...seemed a tad perkier than on Sat AM when I took her in.....

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:24 PM

Yo, Annie,

Hey girl... Feeling kinda puny???... Yer Uncle Bobert has put out a special Annie prayer fir ya and you just gotta hang in there until it get answered...

And, BTW, you got yer mom worried sick... Like I said, Annie girl, just hang in there... Help is on the way!!!

(((((((((((((prayers)))))))))))))))

(((((((((((((Hugs to you and mom))))))))))))))))))

((((((((((((hang in there, girl)))))))))))))))

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:28 PM

She is on IV fluids, at the vets...and we did go and see her tonight. Seemed a tad bit perkier than on Sat when I took her in...was glad to see us.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: LilyFestre
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:35 PM

That "I'm happy to see you, Mom" look is worth everything.

It sounds like you are very loved Little Miss Annie...so hurry up and go home soon!

Michelle

PS. Bobert, I think that's the best post I've ever seen you write.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:38 PM

Gotcha, bes/bud.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: SunnySister
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:59 PM

Hi Sorcha,

I am glad you sent a call out for good thoughts for Annie. Mine are being sent to her, you and her vet.

I've been thinking of what you said about her symptoms. It does sound like poisoning of some sort. Sometimes, when a dog has a flea bath and the flea killing stuff isn't duluted, this could hurt a dogs liver and kidneys, especially if the dog has a sensitive system due to age, etc.

My hope, since you've shared that she's doing better, is that it was something mild that she can get over. The IV will help dulute the gunk and help the liver and take stress off the liver and kidneys.

Since you aren't quite sure what she might have gotten into, I would ask that you do a good look around in your house, the garage, and front and back yards (trash area too) for anything that might still be lingering- I would hate for her to get better and go back to that horrible stuff.

Sending my best- OXOXOX
--SunnySister

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 09:30 PM

Well,Sister I thank you for that...we are almost SURE it is poison of some type....but the weird thing is that the other 2 dogs are fine.....she can't get into the garbage, or anything else. Almost down to somebody tossing something over the fence....and it seems they 'can't do' a tox screen on a dog.....labs are backed up with human stuff. NO flea bath, flea collar, etc...I won't DO flea collars. No bath for at least 6 mos....

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 09:51 PM

Sorch try not to sap your strength with thoughts of evil doers.
Sometimes a simple fungus is to blame.
Nowadays antobiotics are accompagnied with anti fungals - just in case.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Janie
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 10:06 PM

Come on sweet Annie, we got good energy and prayers going up from all over the place. The folks you love, love you too. Get better and go home to 'em.

(((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))) for all the two leggeds and all the four leggeds at your place, Sorcha.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: SunnySister
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 10:12 PM

Hi again Sorch,

I've actually tried to do some research on the web with what you've mentioned: high blood sugar, elevated liver and kidney enzymes, super high white count and have seen a few things but nothing that I could pinpoint that you should look at- one did mention that acorns from Oak trees can make a dog sick- very sick but the article mentioned other symptoms as well.

I wish I knew more about medicine and healing-its so frustrating at times like these, isn't it?

Please keep us informed on how Annie's doing. I am sending positive thoughts that she will be fast on the mend and will never have to deal with this illness again, whatever it is.

Continuing to send my best,
-- SunnySister, who loves, loves, loves Corgi's

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: jacqui.c
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 10:12 PM

Lots of good wishes for Annie from here Sorcha.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: open mike
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 10:45 PM

(((sorcha)))
(((Annie)))
((("dad")))
(((vet)))
I know she is a member of your family,
Sorch, and I remembver recently meeting
Mudlark's Corgi's and it is easy to see
how dear they are!

I hope the best outcome for all of you,
and give her a little pat on the head for me.

Laurel

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Kaleea
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 11:01 PM

I am visualizing that Annie is happy, healthy, & filled with love for Mommy & Daddy & is home soon!

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 11:03 PM

Sister, I have a tiny oak tree in the back yard...no acorns yet....and it's covered with 15" of snow....going to look to see what acorns might have in them that something else might....thanks! Have the ER number now for the Colorado State Uni...which I will call in AM....after I talk to vet.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: SunnySister
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 11:35 PM

Hi again Sorcha,

Here is the link to the article/newletter that had the information about acorns in it:

http://www.tailwagginsbakery.com/newsletter.htm

If the link I just tried doesn't work, here it is just pasted:

http://www.tailwagginsbakery.com/newsletter.htm

It's a little down on the page...

It might be a long shot but it's something that did come up when I put in those symtoms.

Sending my best and hoping she is getting better regardless of the initial cause (although it's so much better to know the "why" of these things).

--SunnySister

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: GUEST,Molly The Cat
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 11:36 PM

I'm pulling for you Annie!

Hang in there, Sorcha!



Meow,

Molly

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Bert
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 11:38 PM

Mud, Mud, Glorious Mudpower on it's way.

Love from Tree & Bert

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 12:31 AM

Just found out my husband has been feeding her peanuts and rasins...NOT good. Damn man..maybe NOW he will listen to me...thanks all!

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 01:01 AM

Ah! The Peanuts! There's a nasty little fungus which hangs around them that can be very toxic!

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: MBSLynne
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 02:32 AM

Thoughts and hugs Sorch

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: suzi
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 02:36 AM

Good thoughts coming from me, to you both Sorcha and Annie..

Suzi....x

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Partridge
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 04:06 AM

positive thoughts and lots of love

Pat xx

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Col K
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 04:10 AM

Positive thoughts coming from me in New Zealand as well.
All the best, hope Annie gets better,
Love
Col

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 05:27 AM

The most common toxic substance my vet references cite that appears to be likely to cause all the symptoms described is common automotive antifreeze (ethylene glycol). Some dogs, especially small ones, may be sufficiently sensitive to be affected just from licking the shoes of someone who's walked through a spill, especially if there's repeated exposure. Dogs and cats both seem to be attracted to the "sweet" taste, and may seek it out once they've found a spill. Since with small doses, the onset of symptoms may take a fairly long time, there often is the opportunity for repeated ingestion before severe symptoms are noticed.

There appears to be no definitive way to determine that this might be the toxicant however, unless you actually know that the animal has been into some of it, or has at least had access to some. Many other things only slightly less common can cause very similar symptoms.

For the most part, so far as the treatment is concerned, it probably doesn't matter a lot what the specific source was, since the recommended handling does not vary for the various possible toxic agents. There are no treatments specific to most of the various different toxins that can produce the reactions you described. From your description, I think you can be assured that your vet is doing the right things.

While there are "contaminants," mainly fungal, that could cause peanuts and/or raisins to harm a dog, the same contaminants could cause serious effects for humans, so they're generally guarded against in any commercial products intended for human consumption. They would hence be unlikely to present to be harmful to a dog. There's a slight possibility they might appear in locally produced or home grown products, but the emphasis would be on the slight. The exception would be if there were chocolate covered peanuts or raisins in the mix. Extremely small amounts of chocolate can be very toxic to dogs, with some breeds known to be much more sensitive than others. Chocolate, even in a sensitive dog, is unlikely to produce all of the symptoms you listed, so probably is not a source here.

The same chemical group that causes chocolate to be harmful to dogs is found in some teas and in a few herbals, including wild plants, that might be fairly common, but are rather unlikely to be ingested by most household animals. And again, it might cause some of the symptoms; but wouldn't match up to the full set.

In short, unless you can find something that this particular pet has been getting into that the others haven't, it's unlikely that you'll ever know the specific source of the problem. When Annie is better, your vet may be able to suggest some things to look for; but it's likely to be a matter of eliminating things that could have been responsible rather than just getting rid of one thing that did it.

Hope and love seem to be the only things that we can offer that are specific to the problem at hand, in addition to the help (and probably a bit of hope and love) being provided by your vet.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Morticia
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 05:34 AM

thoughts and hugs in abundance here, Sorch.........hang on in there, all of you!

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: gnu
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 05:38 AM

Thoughts and prayers, Sorcha.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 09:12 AM

I would suspect ethylene glycol too, Sorch.
Poor Annie. Poor Sorch.
Candles lit for both of you.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: kendall
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 09:51 AM

She's in good hands, so about all you can do is hope. I hope hubby hasn't fed her chocolate?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 10:40 AM

Antifreeze - nasty stuff, because unlike the run of poisons it actually has a pleasant sweet taste. There was a big scandal a few years back in Eutope about rogue wine manufacturers using it to make really rough wine taste more palatable, and poisoning people in the process.

Best wishes to Annie.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: leftydee
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 10:49 AM

Has the vet checked for insect bites? I had a very sick dog two years ago that was spider bitten. Hang in there, Kiddo!

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 11:09 AM

Already thought of antifreeze....I don't see how, unless Mr tracked it in on his boots. She is 'perkier' this AM, but NOW has bloody dihrea (sp). NOTHING in there! At least she has stopped vomiting, or trying to.....going to run another blood sugar test this AM....thanks, guys!

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: RichM
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 11:21 AM

Pets are members of your family. So of course you are upset.
Prayers and positive thoughts for Annie's full recovery.


Rich

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: gnu
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 01:25 PM

That's two "perkiers". Hope they keep coming.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Little Robyn
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 02:14 PM

We lost both a dog and a cat to kidney failure, with similar symptoms, and the vet suggested anti-freeze was responsible but there isn't any around here.
Then I found similar problems could come from lily poisoning. And we did have 2 different lilies growing in the garden. Even in a vase, if puss brushes against it, gets pollen on her coat, then licks it off - that can be enough to kill her, which it did.
So I wish you well, but get rid of any lilies - kidney failure is a horrible way to go and very distressing for the family.
Robyn

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Megan L
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 02:33 PM

hugs and prayers friend

peanuts well i never iv'e eaten them by the barrel and they have never done me any harm im perfectly normallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Azizi
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 08:42 PM

Positive vibrations from Pittsburgh!

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 08:43 PM

Took her to another clinic today, one the breeder reccomended. I think we bingoed it...pancreatitis.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: SunnySister
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 09:23 PM

Sorcha,

Thanks for letting us know. I had thought about pancreatitis although it's so hard to actually diagnose.

If that's it's that and you've found a good clinic, hang in there. It can be pretty serious (as you already know) and sometimes it can be the beginnings of chronic pancreatitis.

Here's a pretty good site with vet information- most of the general information is in the middle area:

http://www.vetinfo.com/dpancrea.html


You all have been on my mind today as I had my graduate advisor get "The Call" from the vet while I was being advised on the phone. We quickly rescheduled and I thought about Annie, you and your husband and all of us who love our furry babies so much and understand that this is part of the commitment we make together.

Sending my best and thank you for keeping us informed,
--SunnySister

Subject: RE: BS: Sorch Needs MudPower
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 09:34 PM

Good girl, Annie...