BS: Going to put y'all back in chains

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 09:22 PM

"As an aside: I know you are aware that the Lincoln of 1864 was not the Lincoln of 1858."

True, Greg. People change. And so do political expediencies.

My issue is not with those who find Sawz's political position 'out to lunch', but it is with the notion that for holding that position he should be kept quiet. There is not a whole lotta fact Republicans can utilize that will at once ingrate themselves to non-rich Americans and simultaneously get them elected.

I'd enjoy a debate with you about Lincoln, one of your presidents I admire. Hell, we both like Twain and history, and I have always found you to be very knowledgeable, erudite and considered with your thoughts to do with history. E-mail or message would be best if that's good by you.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: meself
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 12:45 AM

I don't know see what the problem is - are we supposed to be pretending Black people were never in chains or something?

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 05:31 AM

I get tired of the self pity party the negroes and white guilt trippers go on and on about.
Like negroes are the only folks that have ever been slaves.
Plenty of other racial groups have been enslaved. Religious groups as well.
The Greeks and Romans had slaves.
Get over it and find something relevant to piss and moan about.
Crybabies.
(:-( ))=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: meself
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 09:34 AM

Speaking of pissing and moaning ....

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 11:04 AM

The Greeks and Romans had slaves.

True, but there's a difference between slavery as a result of military subjugation and institutionalized chattel slavery. One regards slavery as a form of punishment of one's enemies. The other regards slaves as personal property.

If a Roman enslaved a Celt, he was dispensing justice against another human being. But if a plantation owner purchased an African slave at auction, he was simply buying a thing. The slave had the same status as a plow or a mule.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 11:56 AM

"Chains" and "shackles" are pretty much generic terms that have been used thousands of times over centuries to describe oppression or imprisonment...

No big deal...

If Biden found a cure for cancer the Repubs would be accusing him of trying to put doctors out of work...

Normal...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 11:57 AM

Well, Bruce, this Krinkle dude IS a troll - or a shit-stirrer if you prefer - aside from his "opinion".

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 12:07 PM

He's British, Greg. He has thought processes we will never comprehend.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 12:48 PM

Actually, in the big scheme of things, Krinkle is correct... If we go back throughout history we find a lot of slavery and oppression of people based on all kinds of criteria... Still going on today and parts of the world... And it's all shameful and inhumane... And wrong... None of it can be justified... None... Our (US) history falls very much into that category...

The elephant in the room is not that it happened or that we should just get over it... The elephant in the room is that we collectively are still suffering from it's consequences... That is the discussion we aren't having which has a lot to do with we the US has the highest poverty rate of any western developed nation...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 01:21 PM

I agree with you, Bobert, but imo you are missing a piece of the puzzle. I think the 'gist of the slavery game' today is to ensure that a majority of Americans are indentured (through economic means). Cheap labour and lots of money for your real leaders--the ones who sit back, watch the 'little people' squabble and fuck every one of you out of anything they want.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 01:27 PM

I agree with Joe Offer's comments on your nation being so polarised. I personally think it is a contrived polarisation, from two sides of the vise that is clamping down on you, from both sides.
You might do well, to get off accusing each other of being so wrong, just because they are, as you are, the 'other side' of the vise!You would do well, in getting your eyes off the clamping down, and consider focussing on the ones turning the crank on the vise!

I also agree with 999's remarks, and think it immature to be pointing fingers at Sawzaw, and then proving what he said is 'wrong', by using Democratic political ads, as your source!

As it is, right now, through clever deceptions, most of you are indeed, 'working for the clampdown', and therefore, either silly or senile!

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 05:18 PM

Wow! You think I'm British!!! What a hoot! Born in Kentucky. Raised in Georgia.I live in Martin Luther King Jr's old stomping grounds and I have to tolerate black hate daily. They call this place The City Too Busy To Hate. But it's one of the most hateful cities on earth.
Get over it folks. Or go to Africa and free the slaves there. Or China. Or Walmart.

(:-( P)=

And blow it out your blowhole, Greg old boy!!!!!

And we're all slaves to the banks and power grid.

(:-( D)=
And thank you,Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 06:26 PM

Well, Henry, I hope you enjoy this story.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 06:29 PM

I always thought Krinkle was from the USA. I hope we don't make them like that over here (apart from the usual suspects).

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 06:37 PM

It's exactly what I've been saying. We all have time now.
Cheerio!
(:-( D)=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 06:56 PM

Yeah, brucie, I am well aware that more and more Americans are being enslaved everyday... 1/2 of Americans living at 125% or below poverty??? That ain't all that different than slavery...

But, as Krinke knows, the Emancipation Proclamation didn't change much for black folks in America, especially in the South... It set up a century Jim Crow campaign of hatred for them... And, as Krinkle knows, there are one shit load of white people who hate black people even today... Seems that lotta folks have nothing better to do with their time...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 08:22 PM

as Krinkle knows, there are one shit load of white people who hate black people even today.

There'e a typo or two there, Bobert. I think you meant to write:

1. As Krinkle shows
or
2. As Krinkle blows
or
3. Krinkle is one shit load.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 02:54 AM

Actually, there are poop loads of negroes who hate white people.
White on black crime is extremely rare. Black on white crime is extremely common.
Even the black cops single out white folks to persecute here.
Why don't you go down to the blackest part of town and tell them all how sorry you feel for them all? You do have ghettos and hoods where you live don't you? Well, why don't you move there to live? You'll be welcomed with open arms. Firearms.
Greg lives there. Don't you Greg?
(:-( ))=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 03:23 AM

And by the way, Bobert. Was the Emancipation Proclamation voted on in Congress? And passed by a majority vote? Or was it a law shoved down the people's throat by King Abraham? You do know that within a few years of America gaining independence from British tyranny the importation of slaves was stopped. If we hadn't thrown off the English shackles, the slave ships would have never stopped coming.
Cheerio!
(:-( P)=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 03:46 AM

Once again Krinkle demonstrates how right King George was.

If he wants to learn something he should try looking up the Abolition of the Slave Trade Act 1807 and The Slavery Abolition Act, and indeed "In the matter of Cartwright" 11 Elizabeth; 2 Rushworth's Coll 468 (1569) "Shanley v Harvey" (1763) 2 Eden 126 at 127.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 04:07 AM

I did just look up the Emancipation Proclamation.
You know the slaves weren't freed in the border states until well after the War of Northern Aggession was over?
And Greg, cursing and namecalling is the refuge of the ignorant and inadequate?
State your case intelligently or keep your piehole shut.
(:-( D)=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 04:22 AM

Now let's discuss the German enslavement of the Jew. And how Chamberlain was so outraged he declared war on Germany. Free those poor downtrodden people!!!!!
(:-( O)=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 05:12 AM

Or we can discuss the British impressment of U.S. citizens on British ships. I think that was slavery. They even went so far as beating them with the cat o nine tails. Is the draft slavery? I think so.Is putting a person on the chain gang slavery? Yup.
The private ownership of slaves was outlawed in places. But not the government ownership.
(:-( P)=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 08:19 AM

Is biden Boss Hogg?

Bobert Redn**k hate speech in context:

"***Revolutions*** occur when the Boss Hogs can't be brought to the table... I am hoping that won't have to be the case hwere in the US but I am not all that sure that won't be the case and like I have said before...

...if it does come down to ***revolution*** it will start in the South with the angry NASCAR dads who have figured out that Boss Hog is using Budwiser and race cars to placate them on one hand while sticking his other hands in their pockets...

I understand angry NASCAR dads because I have spent my life living with them and there's ont thing about these folks that I have learned is that once they turn on you they ain't turnin' back... So if there are Boss Hogs reading this, you might wants thaink about just how long you think you can get away with screwing folks...

But, then again... Historically, Boss Hog has never hasd the sense to know when he has stolen too much...

And, yeah, this is also all about poverty... If angry NASCAR dad figures out that he will work until the day he dies to pay off the debt to the "company store" then when he hears discussionas about "poverty" he will be less inclined to blame the victims..."


At a campaign stop in Stuart, Va., Vice President Joe Biden was so excited to meet a NASCAR owner that he ordered the press corp to scatter.

"Get out of the way man," Biden said "good-naturedly" to a photographer upon entering The Coffee Break Cafe, according to a pool report filed by POLITICO's Jonathan Martin. "Get out of the way."

Biden then approached restaurant patron Glen Wood, the owner of a car that won the Daytona 500 in 2011.

"I heard somebody in here won the Daytona!" Biden said.

"This guy did what I dreamed of, man," Biden said. "I'd trade being vice-president in a heartbeat for having won Daytona."

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 11:20 AM

'"I'd trade being vice-president in a heartbeat for having won Daytona."'


There's a country and western song trapped in that line.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 03:14 PM

And Robert Mitchum could sing it.
(:-( ))=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 05:36 PM

I half agree with some of what you say, Krinkle...

Yeah, there was "Northern aggression" but then again their was "Southern aggression"... That what makes for a war... It's interesting that other than two very bloody battles (Gettysburg and Antietam) the bulk of the war was fought on soil that didn't vote with the Northern Republicans or Southern Democrats in 1860 but voted for a moderate Constitutional Union Party...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 05:39 PM

I sometimes wonder if an IQ test before voting would be good.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 05:47 PM

The North had too much to lose. They would have killed everyone down here to keep it. And they slaughtered the native Americans to steal more. It always comes down to money, power and real estate. And they shroud in in humanitarian reasons. Let's baptise the savages and kill them quick so they can go to heaven. We'll be doing them a great favor.
(:-( D)=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 06:13 PM

the bulk of the war was fought on soil that ... voted for a moderate Constitutional Union Party...

Sorry, Bobert, but not quite.

Bell (Constitutional Union)carried only VA, TN & KY with pop. vote of 590,901

Breckinridge carried the rest of the Slave States, pop. vote of 669,148

Douglas 1,004,823 caried only Missouri.

Lincoln 1,865,148

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 06:25 PM

Humanitarian Intervention. Free the slaves. Invade Syria and Iran. Humanitarian Intervention.
(:-( ))=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 07:15 PM

Yo, Greg... What I said is that the bulk of the fighting, other than the two bloodiest battles, were fought in Virginia... Mananas (Bull Run) I & II, Richmond, Fredricksburg, Petersburg, were the biggies but there were hundreds of minor battles throughout Virgina... Virgina became the arena...

Yes, Krinkle... The destruction, especially by Sherman, and the "Reconstruction" were ugly... I do not defend the Union for their part in those... But then, an more importantly, I cannot defend the century of KKK and Jim Crow after the Union left the South to its own devices in after the 1976 election... That was disgraceful and if you want to know why black folks ain't all that wild about white people all you have to look at is what white people did to blacks during that 100 year period... BTW, it hasn't been that long since white people were killing black people because they were black...

Google up the Greensboro Massacre... That was just 33 years ago...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 08:14 PM

Depends how you want to define "The Bulk" of the fighting. If you want to say that VA had more engagements than any other single state, OK- I'm with ya. BUT if you want to total up ALL the engagements including Vicksburg & the whole western theater of the war, plus the engagements in all the states I think you'll find that VA, KY & TN are vastly outnumbered There were THOUSANDS of battles, large & small, in the other states of the Confederacy.

In Re: Reconstruction- have you ever read the book of that name by Eric Foner? There's still an awful lot of fairytales about that era that people, unfortunately, continue to believe despite conclusive evidence to the contrary.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 04:23 AM

I think we need a do-over. Let's fight it all over again....Put up your dukes.
(:-( D)=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 11:49 AM

I'd love to do a do-over... Lincoln doesn't re-supply Sumpter... Meets with Jefferson Davis and says, "See ya 'round like a doughnut"...

Yeah, I know that that would mean I'd be a citizen of the CSA but I firmly believe that the South would be further along in terms of humanity if Lincoln had just let it go... And as I have argued many times, slavery was on its way out... It had been outlawed in country after country going back to the 1820s and it was going to be outlawed in a future CSA, as well without a hundred years of Jim Crow... People might think that the rednecks would still have had the Klan and, yeah, some would have gone that route but if the the majority of Southerners had wanted to ban slavery then the Klan's recruiting wouldn't have been so easy...

And I also know that when ever I throw this out there the it brings the usual righteously indignant "Horrors, Bobert" responses... Normal...

The Civil (which it wasn't) War has been a anchor around this country...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 12:00 PM

The internal combustion engine would have made slavery on plantations obsolete.
The south is a richer area with a long growing season. And a vast coastline.
We don't need the north. For anything.
(:-( ))=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 12:39 PM

Meets with Jefferson Davis and says, "See ya 'round like a doughnut"...

So you would expect that Abe would have violated his oath of office to protect the United States and the Constitution?

Abe was a better man than that.

...the South would be further along in terms of humanity if Lincoln had just let it go... slavery was on its way out... without a hundred years of Jim Crow

Well, Bobert, I should think that the history of the country, especially from 1876 withdrawl of Federal Troops to the 1960's clearly shows those to be more than ridiculous statements.

...if the the majority of Southerners had wanted to ban slavery...

If the majority had wanted to ban slavery, they'd have voted for Lincoln and there would have been no civil war. And if wishes were horses....

The Civil War has been a anchor around this country.

Not quite- the legacy of chattel slavery and belief in the fairytale of "The Lost Cause" are the anchors you're thinking of.







without a hundred years of Jim Crow

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 12:50 PM

"a hundred years of Jim Crow" Courtesy of the Democrats:

The rise and fall of Jim Crow

After the Civil War, white Southerners opposed Radical Reconstruction and the Republican Party's support of black civil and political rights.

The Democratic Party identified itself as the "white man's party" and demonized the Republican Party as being "Negro dominated," even though whites were in control. Determined to re-capture the South, Democrats "redeemed" state after state -- sometimes peacefully, other times by fraud and violence. By 1877, when Reconstruction was officially over, the Democratic Party controlled every Southern state.         

The South remained a one-party region until the Civil Rights movement began in the 1960s. Northern Democrats, most of whom had prejudicial attitudes towards blacks, offered no challenge to the discriminatory policies of the Southern Democrats.

After the Civil War, the Democratic Party in the South was the party of white supremacy. Now, African Americans form the party's most loyal base of support. One of the consequences of the Democratic victories in the South was that many Southern Congressmen and Senators were almost automatically re-elected every election. Due to the importance of seniority in the U.S. Congress, Southerners were able to control most of the committees in both houses of Congress and kill any civil rights legislation. Even though Franklin Delano Roosevelt was a Democrat, and a relatively liberal president during the 1930s and '40s, he rarely challenged the powerfully entrenched Southern bloc. When the House passed a federal anti-lynching bill several times in the 1930s, Southern senators filibustered it to death.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 01:42 PM

Well, Greg... The country was still evolving and trying to get it's head wrapped around federalism in 1860... Thomas Jefferson's observations that the Constitution would need some serious revisiting from time to time was fresher in the minds of Americans and politicians...

In spite of the current rich using "states rights" as a sword and shield these days the country is very much federalized... The rich don't want that to change but but are willing to stir up Redneck Nation with anti-government sentiments in order to elect politicians who will let the rich trash our nations environment and labor force...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 02:58 PM

I'm with ya on that last one, Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 01:14 PM

Anyone with half an education knows that your Democratic Party was the ones big on segregation. Now, as it is, anyone with half an education, is a Democrat. The ones with the other half, are Republicans. The ones with objectivity, are either Independents or foreigners!

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 01:23 PM

Problem is that "that" Democratic Party isn't today's Democratic Party... The parties have swapped ideologies over the years... Lyndon Johnson said the Civil Rights Voting Act of1965 would ruin the Democratic Party in the South for a decade... Little could he know that white Southerners would never get over it... And haven't... Thus...

...the Southern Strategy is alive and well in the Republican Party...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 01:41 PM

""I sometimes wonder if an IQ test before voting would be good.""

That would only present the Repugs with yet another golden opportunity to disenfranchise the black vote, the gay vote and any other of their many hate objects.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 02:01 PM

"Now, as it is, anyone with half an education, is a Democrat. The ones with the other half, are Republicans."

Whether or not I agree with it, that's a pretty good line, GuestfromSanity.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 02:16 PM

I presume that swapping ideologies, even if that were true, that Democrats could blame their past actions on someone else.

That is a cop out.

Lyndon Johnson said:

"I'll have those ni**ers voting Democrat for the next 200 years"

And Democrats still believe they own the Black people's vote. They believe Black people owe their vote to Democrats. It is in the Democrat's genes to own the black people and use them to their advantage just like their ancestors did.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 02:39 PM

No, I said that. You must have read it wrong. But then,you must favour, and belong to one of those half educated parties!
As for me, I'm a foreigner.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 03:06 PM

Ha, I say.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 10:40 AM

The Democratic Platform

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 02:22 PM

Don't like the idea of an IQ test as a requirement for voting but would seriously consider a test where everyone gets to vote but a test on "facts" being part of the test and the tin-foilers votes not being counted...

I mean, questions like:

1. Where was Barak Obama born? (Pick just one)

    a. Kenya
    b. Mars
    c. Hawaii

2. Does global warming exist? (Pick just one)

    a. Yes
    b. No

3. Which of the following is NOT a branch of government? (Pick just one)

    a. Judicial
    b. Legislative
    c. NASCAR

Ya'll get it... I mean, 10 basic fact based questions and make 'um get 7 outta ten in order for the vote to be counted...

BTW, there are states where kids can opt out of fact based classes if they say that the information they would learn might be in conflict with their religious beliefs??? Man, that is some messed up thinking...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 05:25 PM

Map of 1860 election

Map of 2008 election

Remarkably similar - if you reverse the party colours.