BS: Going to put y'all back in chains

Subject: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 08:16 AM

Be scared black folks.

"They're going to put y'all back in chains."

The Democrats are the ones that had the black people in chains. Republicans got them out of chains.

Obama wants to put the black people back in the chains of poverty so they will dependent on government handouts.

"I'll have those ni**ers voting Democrat for the next 200 years" says it all.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Charmion
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 08:35 AM

Troll alert!

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 08:53 AM

Truth alert!

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 09:20 AM

Fourteen Karat Bullshit Alert! (Goes without saying)

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 09:35 AM

Moron alert more like.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 09:59 AM

Our resident literalistic troll steps in with the usual hypocritical self righteous indignation...

Only someone with a mind so narrow that you can't get a feeler gage in it wouldn't plainly see that Obama was speaking figuratively...

Normal day here in Mudville...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 10:04 AM

"Republicans got them out of chains."

That was the name of Lincoln's party. The roles & attitudes of the Republicans & Democrats have almost totally reversed since the 1880s, culminating with the 'Dixiecrats' in the 1960s. Lyndon Johnson presided over the final transformation. Any serious sudent of history understands this.

Those who would reinstate poll taxes, Gerrymander voting districts to limit minority members of congress and pass Draconian immigration laws are now largely Republicans.

"Obama wants to put the black people back in the chains of poverty so they will dependent on government handouts."

That amount of BS needs hip boots to wade thru.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 10:08 AM

Don't bring up Dixiecrats, Bill... Saws doesn't believe they ever existed... Might of fact, Saws doesn't understand that the parties swapped ideologies...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 10:18 AM

Saws is just channelling the well-known asshole Allen West today. Ignore him.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 10:32 AM

Ah yes...

BTW, Greg... Allen West wants you to know that you and I are communists... Just thought you needed to know that...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 10:32 AM

Well slap my fanny and roll me over in the mud. Looks like we all got the blue!

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 10:43 AM

Sorry for interrupting this important thread/news update, but I am Canadian and have been informed that fanny has a different meaning in the UK. Here it is an overly cute method of saying ass or in UK speak, arse. What I should have said is "Well slap my ass and roll me over in the mud."

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 11:22 AM

Allen West wants you to know that you and I are communists... Just thought you needed to know that.

I was aware of that Bobert & not just you & me! And that's one of his saner(?) pronouncements. His quote: "I believe there is about 78 to 81 members of the Democratic Party that are members of the Communist Party."

But thanks for the reminder.   ;>)

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 11:52 AM

How were you doing, then?


as compared to now?

and you gluttonous pigs, play political soccer games while the rest of the civilised world suffers, in YOUR chains!

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 12:22 PM

A person with two clocks never knows what time it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Elmore
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 04:07 PM

For the GOP to make a fuss over this metaphor gives me hope that they may be desperate.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 04:28 PM

Sawzaw, where do you get this crap? And why do you feel compelled to fling it a people who know it's crap?

Have you any idea how that makes YOU look?

Jeez, man, get a life!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 05:41 PM

Granted, GUEST, for the most part it is a waste of time and energy—if one's purpose is to try to convert the crap-flingers to the world of facts. It ain't gonna happen.

But my concern is that there are some who, if someone doesn't point out that it's crap, and why it's crap, are naïve enough to accept what the crap-flinger says as actually the case.

If bullshit is not identified AS bullshit, along with WHY it's bullshit, some folks may accept it as Gospel.

Those who delight in spreading propaganda and misinformation would prefer that it go unchallenged.

By the way, I don't devote my life to this sort of thing. I do most of my work, political and otherwise, in the real world. As, I think, do most of us.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 05:42 PM

What a fucking wanker sorearse is. Any fule no that today's Republicans (taken en masse) have one main objection to Obama - namely that he is an uppity nigra.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 06:02 PM

Got it in one, Richard!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 06:58 PM

As for the National debt clocks...

Had the Supreme Court allowed democracy to play out in 2000 we wouldn't be having this discussion... The Bush t6ax cuts would have never happened... Two unfunded wars wouldn't have happened... There's reason to believe that 9/11 wouldn't have happened...

Yeah, the Supreme Court and their boy, Bush, are 100% responsible for the deficits... 100%!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: pdq
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 08:02 PM

Just because Joe Biden said something that you don't like does not mean that he did not say it. He did say it. That is a fact.

"At a campaign rally in Danville, Va., Biden quoted Romney as saying that 'in the first hundred days he's going to let the big banks once again write their own rules -- .'unchain .'Wall Street.

"'They're going to put y'all back in chains .'Biden added, presumably referring to Romney and new running mate Paul Ryan.

At the end of his speech, Biden told supporters that, with their help, he and President Obama 'can win North Carolina again.'"

{note: Biden was speaking to a crowd in Virginia}

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 08:17 PM

Biden got 90% of it right... Ahhhh, correct... D- in geography... Glad I ain't him... I'd probably get an F...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 08:17 PM

The usual, useless "debate" about politics...it's enough to make a person give up and not give two cents about any of it.

IMO, there needs to be one main thread for each party/candidate/etc. Postings would be confined to them, if political in nature.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 08:18 PM

Click here for the statement from Biden. I suppose Joe could have chosen his words more judiciously, but his lack of judiciousness is part of his charm. It seems that nowadays, they choose vice presidential candidates especially for their lack of judiciousness. Still there are elements of raw truth in what Biden says, and what Sawzaw says. They clearly differentiate the two philosophies, and show that the voters have a clear choice.

If you vote Republican, you believe that business is the best protector of humankind. If you vote Democratic, you think government can do that job more reliably. I'm starting to wish we could go back to the good old days when people complained that all the candidates were saying the same thing and you couldn't tell one from the other. This polarization is killing us.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 08:30 PM

Sorry, Kat, but part of the Republican plan is to discourage people from voting because people say they are sick of it... Most of the people who are sick of it ain't Republicans...

Think about it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 08:37 PM

Sawzaw* you don't understand history. The Republican party of Lincoln did a flip flop (yes, they did) and shifted to the party they are today some decades after Lincoln's death. The Democratic party now most closely resembles what the Republican party was 150-some years ago. But you don't care about that, you just want to muddy the waters.

SRS

*Earns a Pants on fire rating for this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 10:00 PM

"wouldn't plainly see that Obama was speaking figuratively"

Blind Bobert does not know that it was Biden that said this.

"Republican party of Lincoln did a flip flop" Horse shit. That is a fairy tail dreamed up by guilt ridden Democrats.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 10:13 PM

Listen, Saws... Everything that Biden says ya'll blame on Obama... Who cares???

Do you have a point to make or just passing gas???

Didn't think so...

You are just another Melba Milk-toast Obama hater...

((((Yawn))))

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 10:15 PM

'unchain .'Wall Street.

The word he actually used was unshackle but what someone actually said does not matter to Joe the fumbler.

Biden was speaking to a 50% black audience. He refers to them as Yall and saying back in chain s means he was referring to someone who had been in chains.

It is another blatant example of the Democratic party using black people for their own political gain, not treating them as humans but rather as a tool.

If you listen to black people responding to the remark they say "oh yes he was talking about black people".

This is dog whistle politics at it's best.

Biden put on his best condescending black ministers voice when he said "Unnnn-chain Wall Street"

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 10:20 PM

I've read Biden's words. They seem very accurate. What's to criticise?

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 10:31 PM

Sawzaw, just because you don't understand American history that doesn't make it not so.

That is a fairy tail dreamed up by guilt ridden Democrats.

And that is full strength high-octane bullshit.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 10:33 PM

Wilder, a Democrat and a grandson of slaves, echoed indignant denunciations from Republicans

Nation's first elected black gov, Virginia's Wilder, blasts Biden for his 'in chains'' comment

Washington Post

RICHMOND, Va. — The nation's first elected black governor, Virginia's L. Douglas Wilder, lambasted Vice President Joe Biden on national television Wednesday for his remark to a largely black crowd about banks keeping people "in chains."

Wilder, a Democrat and a grandson of slaves, echoed indignant denunciations from Republicans, including presumptive presidential nominee Mitt Romney, that Biden's comment at a Tuesday rally in Danville, Va., injected race into the presidential contest.

In warning that the Republican ticket would roll back President Barack Obama's regulations reining in banks and investment firms after the 2008 stock market meltdown, Biden said Romney intended to "unchain Wall Street."

Then, Biden added, "they're going to put y'all back in chains."

Romney fired back Wednesday, saying Obama's re-election campaign "is all about division and attack and hatred." Obama's campaign called Romney's response "unhinged."

Wilder, known within his own party for an independent streak that sometimes borders on contrarian, was interviewed separately by Fox News and later CNN.

"Without question they were appeals to race," Wilder told CNN. "And if you don't argue with that, then you understand that, then the next question is why? Why do you feel you need to do that? But the more important thing that I got out of this was Biden separated himself from what he accused the people of doing. As a matter of fact what he said is, they are going to do something to y'all, not to me, not us. So he was still involved with that separate America. And I'm sick and tired of being considered something other than an American."

Wilder also said he doesn't believe Obama would associate himself with, nor make, the remarks that Biden made.

"The president doesn't need this now,' Wilder said. "The president needs to be a part of bringing people together.

Wilder, also a former Richmond mayor, said Secretary of State Hillary Clinton would have made a better Obama running mate and called on Biden to "cool it, back up" and admit that he was wrong.

"If Hilary were on that ticket today, based on the job she's done as secretary of state, I think there would be a clearer advantage the president would be seeing," said Wilder, who was elected Virginia's governor in 1989 and briefly ran for president in late 1991. "It's not going to happen. It's too late. I think she'll be getting herself together for 2016."

"What the president needs to do is to disassociate himself from trying to show anybody that division is what this administration is about," Wilder told CNN's Wolf Blitzer.

In an interview later with The Associated Press, Wilder said Biden's comment gratuitously preyed on emotionally freighted and painful imagery from the South's slaveholding past. Danville, once a booming textile and tobacco city on the North Carolina border, was the final seat of a collapsing Confederate government on the run, forced to flee Richmond as it fell to Union troops in 1865.

"Why did he feel the need to do that?" Wilder told the AP. "Did he feel that these people were so dumb that he had to appeal to them with something like that? You can forgive people for gaffes, but there comes a time when you realize you're forgiving the same guy for making the same mistakes."

Obama defended Biden in an interview with People magazine on Wednesday, saying the vice president's remarks meant consumers would be worse off if Republicans succeeded in doing away with new restraints on financial institutions.

"In no sense was he trying to connote something other than that," Obama said.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 10:48 PM

So, when confronted, Sawz goes to his default position of cut and pasting yet more right winged crap...

Yo, Sawz... You are a coward... No two ways about it... You stalk me with all kinds of ballgames and dishonesty in quoting me out of context and then when people come at you you "run like pigs from a gun"...

Coward and liar...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 10:56 PM

Ah, yes....Son, you're too young to remember this; but I remember a day, not too long ago, when there were liberal Republicans and conservative Democrats - not that I liked the conservative Democrats....

I guess the last liberal Republican was Colin Powell. If he weren't a general, the Republicans would have tarred and feathered him by now.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 11:00 PM

"just because you don't understand American history that doesn't make it not so."

Little Rock Akansas:

Governor Orville Faubus tried to block little lack girls from going to school. He enforced segregation using the Arkansas National Guard.

Eisenhower sent in the 101st Airborne Division to enforce integration.

Republican Flip Flop Myth Busted again. Democrats flip flopped and try to take credit for the things Republicans did for black people.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 11:51 PM

Indeed many Republicans did vote in support of desegregation, and many southern senators voted against it. The problem however is that there are no more Republicans like Senator Dirksen around these days. What Republicans did or didn't do 45 years ago hasn't got any commerce with what Republicans are doing now.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Amos
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 12:26 AM

There is nothing inherently racist about the "unchain...back in chains" remark, unless one chooses to have buttons on one facet of the expression only. Your kind, Sawz, seems to make a living twisting words out of context, altering their meaning and then waving your arms and screaming about your imaginary meanings. Twist and shout, baby, twist and shout. It is a downright scatterbrained substitute for meaningful politics, but I guess you gotta use the little you got, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 12:28 AM

History, Sawzaw. History!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 12:31 AM

He's not bothering with history, Don, he's making most of this up as he goes along.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 04:49 AM

If it does not fit, you must acquit.
(:-( D)=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 04:58 AM

Unchained Melody.
Unchain my Heart
Take these Chains from my Heart
Chain of Fools
Chain Gang

Workers of the World unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains


These are of course, Sorearse, all references to nothing but ethnicity.

And as for the "chain" as a measure of length!

What a fule you be.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 04:59 AM

I just want to know who's responsible for all the cheap, shoddy Red Chinese crap filling our store shelves. I'd like to put them in chains.
(:-( O)=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 07:57 AM

Amos screams "Your kind, Sawz, seems to make a living twisting words out of context" and Amos makes a living doing ???

"It's a divisive tactic that's insulting to African Americans,"

(CNN) â€" Artur Davis, the former four-term Democratic congressman from Alabama, said Wednesday that Vice President Joe Biden was propagating "racial viciousness" when he said Mitt Romney's regulatory policies would "put y'all back in chains."

    Davis, who is black, said the comment smacked of a type of divisiveness he said was all too common in the South.

    "It brought back memories for me," Davis told Wolf Blitzer on CNN's "The Situation Room." "It brought back memories of these Democratic politicians in the South, who think they can go before crowds and say one thing and nobody else will hear it, and they'll somehow get a cheer in the room and that they can blithely go on about their business."

    Saying Biden went to a place he "never should have gone" in his remarks, Davis called the vice president's words insulting.

    "It's a divisive tactic that's insulting to African Americans," Davis said. "It's insulting to the American people.

I don't know exactly what racial 'viciousness' is supposed to mean. It seems to me enslaving people is a form of viciousness, not reminding people that it once happened. Is he saying slavery is off limits as a topic of discussion because it is an unpleasant reminder, or merely that is a pandering applause line. Because (even as Wolf Blitzer points out), it doesn't stay in the 'quiet room', there are TV cameras everywhere and it went viral immediately.

I happen to have spoken to a few African-American audiences in my time, represented a predominantly African-American district," Davis said. "I know what Joe Biden was doing yesterday, and every black person in the room knew who the 'y'all' was, they knew what the chains were about, and they knew what the metaphor was."

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 08:12 AM

Question: Why do people keep interacting with this turd?

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Amos
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 04:27 PM

Twist and shout, baby. I quite agree that Biden should have chosen some other figure of speech. But all it was was a figure of speech; it was used extensively during the labor movement ascension between the 10's and the 40's, to describe the condition of ecomic repression of the blue-collar class, regardless of color. But I notice with interest that none of your twist and shout crew chose to recall that context as the applicable one, even though it seems pretty clear to me.

Why doncha ask Joe Biden what he was implying instead of all this wild-ass guessing and asserting?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 05:35 PM

I'd settle for duct-tape if it would shut Sawzall up.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 07:02 PM

While I seldom agree with Saws, I will not join the "he's a troll" crew, nor will I denigrate him. It's become quite fashionable of late to designate anyone with whom one disagrees as a troll. He, as do we all, says some things that are from the viscera and not the brain. That doesn't necessarily make us trolls. Think about Joe McCarthy; he did exactly the same thing: "If your mother is a commie then you have to turn her in."

The tap-dance I see here so often is one of 'in order to support Obama I have to at least not talk about his screwups'. Then it descends to talk about "you don't like Obama because he's Black" horseshit. NO. If you ask me--which I realize you haven't--I don't like Obama because he signed into law the right of a free people to have no 'due process': fundamental to that right is habeas corpus. I do not give a rat's ass that the budget had to go through, Obama was egregiously wrong to sign it. Maybe he won't ever use it, but the door is now open for some fuck-head Republican to do so.

The historical 'reversal' of Dems and Repubs political positions is fact. It is not a matter of opinion. When it becomes a matter of opinion, it is no longer history. That said, it also doesn't matter.

Today, Republicans are desperately trying to give America back to the bankers, multinationals and moneyed interests, expecting no doubt to have their treason rewarded with a ticket to be in the group that gets to control the USA and all its people. Democrats don't seem to be that much better given that half of both the House and the Senate are millionaires.

We forget quite easily it seems Lincoln's remarks on September 18, 1858 (I remember the date because my birthday is one day before (and sometimes I feel in the same year)): "From 4th Lincoln/Douglas Debate, 1858
I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.

The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois" (September 18, 1858), pp. 145-146."

From even that snippet alone, I submit that Sawzaw is as allowed to and worthy of his opinion as is anyone else. He too loves his country.

#####################################

Different but similar:

I live in Quebec, Canada. I am an English Quebec-born man and there is a provincial election coming up in early September. I have three 'viable' parties from which to choose: PQ (Parti Quebecois) led by Marois; Liberal led by Charest and a new party called the CAQ led by Legault. The PQ wants separation from Canada, the CAQ wants to wait ten years and the Libs want to win. There is no one to vote for in the viable category, so I'm hoping a Marijuana Party or Rhino Party is in my voting district. Else, I shall go and print bad things on my ballot and give no one my X. (Makings of a C+W song there.)

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: CET
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 08:31 PM

I'm having some difficulty in understanding how one could imagine that Biden did not mean to refer to the chains of slavery. Sure, he might have wanted to make the point that the Republicans would put ordinary Americans in thrall to corporate interests, but he did say "y'all" and "back in chains". I don't think it was much more than overheated political rhetoric, but he did say it, and he deserves to take some heat for it. Recognizing that doesn't mean giving credence to Sawz.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 08:55 PM

Bruce-

I don't think its Sawz's opinion that gets up peoples' noses, but the lies, half-truths and absolute bullshit he uses in an attempt to substantiate his opinions.

Ad Daniel Patrick Moynihan reminded us:

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.


As an aside: I know you are aware that the Lincoln of 1864 was not the Lincoln of 1858.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 09:22 PM

"As an aside: I know you are aware that the Lincoln of 1864 was not the Lincoln of 1858."

True, Greg. People change. And so do political expediencies.

My issue is not with those who find Sawz's political position 'out to lunch', but it is with the notion that for holding that position he should be kept quiet. There is not a whole lotta fact Republicans can utilize that will at once ingrate themselves to non-rich Americans and simultaneously get them elected.

I'd enjoy a debate with you about Lincoln, one of your presidents I admire. Hell, we both like Twain and history, and I have always found you to be very knowledgeable, erudite and considered with your thoughts to do with history. E-mail or message would be best if that's good by you.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: meself
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 12:45 AM

I don't know see what the problem is - are we supposed to be pretending Black people were never in chains or something?

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 05:31 AM

I get tired of the self pity party the negroes and white guilt trippers go on and on about.
Like negroes are the only folks that have ever been slaves.
Plenty of other racial groups have been enslaved. Religious groups as well.
The Greeks and Romans had slaves.
Get over it and find something relevant to piss and moan about.
Crybabies.
(:-( ))=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: meself
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 09:34 AM

Speaking of pissing and moaning ....

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 11:04 AM

The Greeks and Romans had slaves.

True, but there's a difference between slavery as a result of military subjugation and institutionalized chattel slavery. One regards slavery as a form of punishment of one's enemies. The other regards slaves as personal property.

If a Roman enslaved a Celt, he was dispensing justice against another human being. But if a plantation owner purchased an African slave at auction, he was simply buying a thing. The slave had the same status as a plow or a mule.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 11:56 AM

"Chains" and "shackles" are pretty much generic terms that have been used thousands of times over centuries to describe oppression or imprisonment...

No big deal...

If Biden found a cure for cancer the Repubs would be accusing him of trying to put doctors out of work...

Normal...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 11:57 AM

Well, Bruce, this Krinkle dude IS a troll - or a shit-stirrer if you prefer - aside from his "opinion".

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 12:07 PM

He's British, Greg. He has thought processes we will never comprehend.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 12:48 PM

Actually, in the big scheme of things, Krinkle is correct... If we go back throughout history we find a lot of slavery and oppression of people based on all kinds of criteria... Still going on today and parts of the world... And it's all shameful and inhumane... And wrong... None of it can be justified... None... Our (US) history falls very much into that category...

The elephant in the room is not that it happened or that we should just get over it... The elephant in the room is that we collectively are still suffering from it's consequences... That is the discussion we aren't having which has a lot to do with we the US has the highest poverty rate of any western developed nation...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 01:21 PM

I agree with you, Bobert, but imo you are missing a piece of the puzzle. I think the 'gist of the slavery game' today is to ensure that a majority of Americans are indentured (through economic means). Cheap labour and lots of money for your real leaders--the ones who sit back, watch the 'little people' squabble and fuck every one of you out of anything they want.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 01:27 PM

I agree with Joe Offer's comments on your nation being so polarised. I personally think it is a contrived polarisation, from two sides of the vise that is clamping down on you, from both sides.
You might do well, to get off accusing each other of being so wrong, just because they are, as you are, the 'other side' of the vise!You would do well, in getting your eyes off the clamping down, and consider focussing on the ones turning the crank on the vise!

I also agree with 999's remarks, and think it immature to be pointing fingers at Sawzaw, and then proving what he said is 'wrong', by using Democratic political ads, as your source!

As it is, right now, through clever deceptions, most of you are indeed, 'working for the clampdown', and therefore, either silly or senile!

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 05:18 PM

Wow! You think I'm British!!! What a hoot! Born in Kentucky. Raised in Georgia.I live in Martin Luther King Jr's old stomping grounds and I have to tolerate black hate daily. They call this place The City Too Busy To Hate. But it's one of the most hateful cities on earth.
Get over it folks. Or go to Africa and free the slaves there. Or China. Or Walmart.

(:-( P)=

And blow it out your blowhole, Greg old boy!!!!!

And we're all slaves to the banks and power grid.

(:-( D)=
And thank you,Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 06:26 PM

Well, Henry, I hope you enjoy this story.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 06:29 PM

I always thought Krinkle was from the USA. I hope we don't make them like that over here (apart from the usual suspects).

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 06:37 PM

It's exactly what I've been saying. We all have time now.
Cheerio!
(:-( D)=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 06:56 PM

Yeah, brucie, I am well aware that more and more Americans are being enslaved everyday... 1/2 of Americans living at 125% or below poverty??? That ain't all that different than slavery...

But, as Krinke knows, the Emancipation Proclamation didn't change much for black folks in America, especially in the South... It set up a century Jim Crow campaign of hatred for them... And, as Krinkle knows, there are one shit load of white people who hate black people even today... Seems that lotta folks have nothing better to do with their time...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 08:22 PM

as Krinkle knows, there are one shit load of white people who hate black people even today.

There'e a typo or two there, Bobert. I think you meant to write:

1. As Krinkle shows
or
2. As Krinkle blows
or
3. Krinkle is one shit load.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 02:54 AM

Actually, there are poop loads of negroes who hate white people.
White on black crime is extremely rare. Black on white crime is extremely common.
Even the black cops single out white folks to persecute here.
Why don't you go down to the blackest part of town and tell them all how sorry you feel for them all? You do have ghettos and hoods where you live don't you? Well, why don't you move there to live? You'll be welcomed with open arms. Firearms.
Greg lives there. Don't you Greg?
(:-( ))=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 03:23 AM

And by the way, Bobert. Was the Emancipation Proclamation voted on in Congress? And passed by a majority vote? Or was it a law shoved down the people's throat by King Abraham? You do know that within a few years of America gaining independence from British tyranny the importation of slaves was stopped. If we hadn't thrown off the English shackles, the slave ships would have never stopped coming.
Cheerio!
(:-( P)=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 03:46 AM

Once again Krinkle demonstrates how right King George was.

If he wants to learn something he should try looking up the Abolition of the Slave Trade Act 1807 and The Slavery Abolition Act, and indeed "In the matter of Cartwright" 11 Elizabeth; 2 Rushworth's Coll 468 (1569) "Shanley v Harvey" (1763) 2 Eden 126 at 127.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 04:07 AM

I did just look up the Emancipation Proclamation.
You know the slaves weren't freed in the border states until well after the War of Northern Aggession was over?
And Greg, cursing and namecalling is the refuge of the ignorant and inadequate?
State your case intelligently or keep your piehole shut.
(:-( D)=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 04:22 AM

Now let's discuss the German enslavement of the Jew. And how Chamberlain was so outraged he declared war on Germany. Free those poor downtrodden people!!!!!
(:-( O)=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 05:12 AM

Or we can discuss the British impressment of U.S. citizens on British ships. I think that was slavery. They even went so far as beating them with the cat o nine tails. Is the draft slavery? I think so.Is putting a person on the chain gang slavery? Yup.
The private ownership of slaves was outlawed in places. But not the government ownership.
(:-( P)=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 08:19 AM

Is biden Boss Hogg?

Bobert Redn**k hate speech in context:

"***Revolutions*** occur when the Boss Hogs can't be brought to the table... I am hoping that won't have to be the case hwere in the US but I am not all that sure that won't be the case and like I have said before...

...if it does come down to ***revolution*** it will start in the South with the angry NASCAR dads who have figured out that Boss Hog is using Budwiser and race cars to placate them on one hand while sticking his other hands in their pockets...

I understand angry NASCAR dads because I have spent my life living with them and there's ont thing about these folks that I have learned is that once they turn on you they ain't turnin' back... So if there are Boss Hogs reading this, you might wants thaink about just how long you think you can get away with screwing folks...

But, then again... Historically, Boss Hog has never hasd the sense to know when he has stolen too much...

And, yeah, this is also all about poverty... If angry NASCAR dad figures out that he will work until the day he dies to pay off the debt to the "company store" then when he hears discussionas about "poverty" he will be less inclined to blame the victims..."


At a campaign stop in Stuart, Va., Vice President Joe Biden was so excited to meet a NASCAR owner that he ordered the press corp to scatter.

"Get out of the way man," Biden said "good-naturedly" to a photographer upon entering The Coffee Break Cafe, according to a pool report filed by POLITICO's Jonathan Martin. "Get out of the way."

Biden then approached restaurant patron Glen Wood, the owner of a car that won the Daytona 500 in 2011.

"I heard somebody in here won the Daytona!" Biden said.

"This guy did what I dreamed of, man," Biden said. "I'd trade being vice-president in a heartbeat for having won Daytona."

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 11:20 AM

'"I'd trade being vice-president in a heartbeat for having won Daytona."'


There's a country and western song trapped in that line.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 03:14 PM

And Robert Mitchum could sing it.
(:-( ))=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 05:36 PM

I half agree with some of what you say, Krinkle...

Yeah, there was "Northern aggression" but then again their was "Southern aggression"... That what makes for a war... It's interesting that other than two very bloody battles (Gettysburg and Antietam) the bulk of the war was fought on soil that didn't vote with the Northern Republicans or Southern Democrats in 1860 but voted for a moderate Constitutional Union Party...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 05:39 PM

I sometimes wonder if an IQ test before voting would be good.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 05:47 PM

The North had too much to lose. They would have killed everyone down here to keep it. And they slaughtered the native Americans to steal more. It always comes down to money, power and real estate. And they shroud in in humanitarian reasons. Let's baptise the savages and kill them quick so they can go to heaven. We'll be doing them a great favor.
(:-( D)=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 06:13 PM

the bulk of the war was fought on soil that ... voted for a moderate Constitutional Union Party...

Sorry, Bobert, but not quite.

Bell (Constitutional Union)carried only VA, TN & KY with pop. vote of 590,901

Breckinridge carried the rest of the Slave States, pop. vote of 669,148

Douglas 1,004,823 caried only Missouri.

Lincoln 1,865,148

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 06:25 PM

Humanitarian Intervention. Free the slaves. Invade Syria and Iran. Humanitarian Intervention.
(:-( ))=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 07:15 PM

Yo, Greg... What I said is that the bulk of the fighting, other than the two bloodiest battles, were fought in Virginia... Mananas (Bull Run) I & II, Richmond, Fredricksburg, Petersburg, were the biggies but there were hundreds of minor battles throughout Virgina... Virgina became the arena...

Yes, Krinkle... The destruction, especially by Sherman, and the "Reconstruction" were ugly... I do not defend the Union for their part in those... But then, an more importantly, I cannot defend the century of KKK and Jim Crow after the Union left the South to its own devices in after the 1976 election... That was disgraceful and if you want to know why black folks ain't all that wild about white people all you have to look at is what white people did to blacks during that 100 year period... BTW, it hasn't been that long since white people were killing black people because they were black...

Google up the Greensboro Massacre... That was just 33 years ago...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 08:14 PM

Depends how you want to define "The Bulk" of the fighting. If you want to say that VA had more engagements than any other single state, OK- I'm with ya. BUT if you want to total up ALL the engagements including Vicksburg & the whole western theater of the war, plus the engagements in all the states I think you'll find that VA, KY & TN are vastly outnumbered There were THOUSANDS of battles, large & small, in the other states of the Confederacy.

In Re: Reconstruction- have you ever read the book of that name by Eric Foner? There's still an awful lot of fairytales about that era that people, unfortunately, continue to believe despite conclusive evidence to the contrary.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 04:23 AM

I think we need a do-over. Let's fight it all over again....Put up your dukes.
(:-( D)=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 11:49 AM

I'd love to do a do-over... Lincoln doesn't re-supply Sumpter... Meets with Jefferson Davis and says, "See ya 'round like a doughnut"...

Yeah, I know that that would mean I'd be a citizen of the CSA but I firmly believe that the South would be further along in terms of humanity if Lincoln had just let it go... And as I have argued many times, slavery was on its way out... It had been outlawed in country after country going back to the 1820s and it was going to be outlawed in a future CSA, as well without a hundred years of Jim Crow... People might think that the rednecks would still have had the Klan and, yeah, some would have gone that route but if the the majority of Southerners had wanted to ban slavery then the Klan's recruiting wouldn't have been so easy...

And I also know that when ever I throw this out there the it brings the usual righteously indignant "Horrors, Bobert" responses... Normal...

The Civil (which it wasn't) War has been a anchor around this country...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 12:00 PM

The internal combustion engine would have made slavery on plantations obsolete.
The south is a richer area with a long growing season. And a vast coastline.
We don't need the north. For anything.
(:-( ))=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 12:39 PM

Meets with Jefferson Davis and says, "See ya 'round like a doughnut"...

So you would expect that Abe would have violated his oath of office to protect the United States and the Constitution?

Abe was a better man than that.

...the South would be further along in terms of humanity if Lincoln had just let it go... slavery was on its way out... without a hundred years of Jim Crow

Well, Bobert, I should think that the history of the country, especially from 1876 withdrawl of Federal Troops to the 1960's clearly shows those to be more than ridiculous statements.

...if the the majority of Southerners had wanted to ban slavery...

If the majority had wanted to ban slavery, they'd have voted for Lincoln and there would have been no civil war. And if wishes were horses....

The Civil War has been a anchor around this country.

Not quite- the legacy of chattel slavery and belief in the fairytale of "The Lost Cause" are the anchors you're thinking of.







without a hundred years of Jim Crow

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 12:50 PM

"a hundred years of Jim Crow" Courtesy of the Democrats:

The rise and fall of Jim Crow

After the Civil War, white Southerners opposed Radical Reconstruction and the Republican Party's support of black civil and political rights.

The Democratic Party identified itself as the "white man's party" and demonized the Republican Party as being "Negro dominated," even though whites were in control. Determined to re-capture the South, Democrats "redeemed" state after state -- sometimes peacefully, other times by fraud and violence. By 1877, when Reconstruction was officially over, the Democratic Party controlled every Southern state.         

The South remained a one-party region until the Civil Rights movement began in the 1960s. Northern Democrats, most of whom had prejudicial attitudes towards blacks, offered no challenge to the discriminatory policies of the Southern Democrats.

After the Civil War, the Democratic Party in the South was the party of white supremacy. Now, African Americans form the party's most loyal base of support. One of the consequences of the Democratic victories in the South was that many Southern Congressmen and Senators were almost automatically re-elected every election. Due to the importance of seniority in the U.S. Congress, Southerners were able to control most of the committees in both houses of Congress and kill any civil rights legislation. Even though Franklin Delano Roosevelt was a Democrat, and a relatively liberal president during the 1930s and '40s, he rarely challenged the powerfully entrenched Southern bloc. When the House passed a federal anti-lynching bill several times in the 1930s, Southern senators filibustered it to death.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 01:42 PM

Well, Greg... The country was still evolving and trying to get it's head wrapped around federalism in 1860... Thomas Jefferson's observations that the Constitution would need some serious revisiting from time to time was fresher in the minds of Americans and politicians...

In spite of the current rich using "states rights" as a sword and shield these days the country is very much federalized... The rich don't want that to change but but are willing to stir up Redneck Nation with anti-government sentiments in order to elect politicians who will let the rich trash our nations environment and labor force...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 02:58 PM

I'm with ya on that last one, Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 01:14 PM

Anyone with half an education knows that your Democratic Party was the ones big on segregation. Now, as it is, anyone with half an education, is a Democrat. The ones with the other half, are Republicans. The ones with objectivity, are either Independents or foreigners!

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 01:23 PM

Problem is that "that" Democratic Party isn't today's Democratic Party... The parties have swapped ideologies over the years... Lyndon Johnson said the Civil Rights Voting Act of1965 would ruin the Democratic Party in the South for a decade... Little could he know that white Southerners would never get over it... And haven't... Thus...

...the Southern Strategy is alive and well in the Republican Party...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 01:41 PM

""I sometimes wonder if an IQ test before voting would be good.""

That would only present the Repugs with yet another golden opportunity to disenfranchise the black vote, the gay vote and any other of their many hate objects.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 02:01 PM

"Now, as it is, anyone with half an education, is a Democrat. The ones with the other half, are Republicans."

Whether or not I agree with it, that's a pretty good line, GuestfromSanity.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 02:16 PM

I presume that swapping ideologies, even if that were true, that Democrats could blame their past actions on someone else.

That is a cop out.

Lyndon Johnson said:

"I'll have those ni**ers voting Democrat for the next 200 years"

And Democrats still believe they own the Black people's vote. They believe Black people owe their vote to Democrats. It is in the Democrat's genes to own the black people and use them to their advantage just like their ancestors did.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 02:39 PM

No, I said that. You must have read it wrong. But then,you must favour, and belong to one of those half educated parties!
As for me, I'm a foreigner.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 03:06 PM

Ha, I say.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 10:40 AM

The Democratic Platform

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 02:22 PM

Don't like the idea of an IQ test as a requirement for voting but would seriously consider a test where everyone gets to vote but a test on "facts" being part of the test and the tin-foilers votes not being counted...

I mean, questions like:

1. Where was Barak Obama born? (Pick just one)

    a. Kenya
    b. Mars
    c. Hawaii

2. Does global warming exist? (Pick just one)

    a. Yes
    b. No

3. Which of the following is NOT a branch of government? (Pick just one)

    a. Judicial
    b. Legislative
    c. NASCAR

Ya'll get it... I mean, 10 basic fact based questions and make 'um get 7 outta ten in order for the vote to be counted...

BTW, there are states where kids can opt out of fact based classes if they say that the information they would learn might be in conflict with their religious beliefs??? Man, that is some messed up thinking...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 05:25 PM

Map of 1860 election

Map of 2008 election

Remarkably similar - if you reverse the party colours.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 06:07 PM

You forgot one Bobert.

4. R U uh Redn**K

a. No
b. Hail Yes
c. No but I would like to be one because I'd trade being vice-president in a heartbeat for having won Daytona.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 11:28 PM

Guess which famous Mudcatter said this:

"Don't get all carried away with Lincoln... There was a lot of George Bush in him...

Southern, redneck, emotional and dumb..."

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 02:42 AM

I'd like to put everyone who believes in censorship in chains.
Flog them with the cat-o-nine tails
(:-( X)=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 04:42 PM

I just saw a fantastic bumper sticker.

On the corner of it is an American flag, and to the right in bold letters, it reads, "Re-Elect Nobody!"

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 05:05 PM

"Flog them with the cat-o-nine tails"

Most people have to pay for that . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 05:13 PM

The best things in life are free.
(:-( D)=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 09:22 AM

The Southern Strategy begins:

LBJ Master of the Senate

"These Negroes. they're getting pretty uppity these days and that's a problem for us since they've got something now they've never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we've got to do something about this, we've got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them dovirin, not enough to make a difference. For if we don't move at all. then their allies will line up against us and there'll be no way of stopping them, well lose the filibuster and there'll be no way of putting a brake on all kinds of wild legislation. It'll he Reconstruction all over again."

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 04:16 PM

LBJ was definitely a very complex man... I mean, he did a lot of stuff as president that just didn't fit his Senate persona... Very strange bird, indeed...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 05:17 PM

Yup, lotta stuff - like stumping for and ensuring the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and signing it.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 05:24 PM

And showing off his scar. Holding his dog by the ears.
(:-( ))=

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 06:29 PM

I got that picture, Krinkz... It is a great pic... Lousy sewing on the docs part... Must have graduated from Helen Keller Sewing School...

Lyndon also liked to drive his Lincoln around the ranch at 80 mph...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 07:24 PM

Scholars STILL debate what LBJ actually thought about Civil Rights. He 'reassured' southern legislators while assuring the act's passage. Was he just aware that Kennedy's agenda had too much momentum to stop? Or he he really quietly seen the reality... much like both Strom Thurmond and Robert Byrd did. They were all pretty good at 'seeming' to uphold southern attitudes, while keeping their jobs.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 09:18 AM

Nevertheless, LBJ engineered the Southern Strategy.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 09:48 AM

The Southern Strategy that's now a keystone of the TeaPublican Party, ya mean? THAT Southern Strategy?

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 11:45 PM

No I am talking abut the engineer of the Southern Strategy LBJ and the users of the Southern Strategy, Democrats.

"They're gonna put y'all back in chains"

LBJ Master of the Senate

"For the first time Negroes have a real leader. A religious leader. A nonviolent man of the cloth. You all know what that means, don't you? A colored Baptist preacher? That's one man who controls the colored community. . . The colored are not going to give up. They're determined. . . We can continue to push these things down their throats. They won't sit still any longer. We have to give them something. If we don't allow progress on this issue, were going to lose every-thing. There's going to be cloture. Rule 22 is going to go. And our opportunity to delay, or to slow down, and to bring some kind of an order to change. will be gone."

"Their allies will line up against us and there'll be no way of stopping them, well lose the filibuster and there'll be no way of putting a brake on all kinds of wild legislation. It'll he Reconstruction all over again."

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 08:32 AM

No, mentally crippled Sawz... LBJ didn't engineer the Southern Strategy... The Republicans did...

Get an education...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 10:28 AM

LBJ was a half-century ago, Sawzall - what's next? Millard Fillmore & the Know-Nothings?

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 12:51 PM

You just got the education Bobert. But you choose to ignore facts.

So, when confronted, Bobert goes to his default, Blowhard, no facts position.

You would rather lash out in anger with personal attacks rather than present some facts of your own unless it is your 2=1 "fact" or Obama bought his campaign airplane.

Or unless you want to hark back to something Thomas Jefferson the slave owner said to support your hate speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 06:50 PM

Greg:

"So you would expect that Abe would have violated his oath of office to protect the United States and the Constitution?"

Abe was a century and a half ago Greg.

What's next George Washington?

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 07:10 PM

Now, Wikipedia may not get every detail correct but if you Google up "Southern Strategy" this is how the text begins, Sawz:

"In American politics, the Souther Strategy refers to the Republican Party strategy of winning elections in Southern states by exploiting anti-African American racism and fears among Southern white voters..."

I donno, Saws, but you certainly are either mentally challenged or don't comprehend the English language...

BTW, Google up LBJ while yer at it and check out what party he represented...

Geeze??? If you had been one of my students of American History I would have had you transferred in special-ed...

Very slow...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 07:34 PM

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh LBJ beat them to it as you can plainly see from his own quotes.

And as any 9th grader could tell you that "gonna put you back in chains" is dog whistle Southern Strategy to scare black folks into voting Democratic. Woooooooooo be scared of those Republicans. Better vote for us unless you want to be put back in chains.

I mean like how in hell did they get in chains to begin with?

But left wing nuts are not that great at puttin' 2 and 2 together for their self. They would rather be hearded like sheep.

They feel all warm an fuzzy when in a flock. They feel safer that way and protected from Boss Hogg who is a Democrat by the way.

When the Libs do occasionally try to put things together they come up with some bizarre shit like 2=1. Or BB gun=gold plated M16 or leasing, buying what's the difference?

Yup. They are better off in a flock. They need that protection, that heard mentality. They can't handle the world on their own.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 08:28 PM

Delusional interpretation not based on reality or real history... I don't know where you come up with this tin-foil stuff but it falls within the 1% of the community of historians... In other words??? Well, there are no other words...

Just shameful and delusional interpretation not based on *fact*...

Sorry, pal, but you need mental help... But I guess deep inside you know that... You are the kinda person who will shoot up a theater and every one will go, "Well, we knew he wasn't right"...

Please get help soon... I'm serious...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 09:01 PM

You can drone on and on about the mental thing but how can you prove anything with logical falacies?

The Myth of the Southern Strategy

The New York Times, Bobert's Ahhhh, newspaper of record.

Everyone knows that race has long played a decisive role in Southern electoral politics. From the end of Reconstruction until the beginning of the civil rights era, the story goes, the national Democratic Party made room for segregationist members — and as a result dominated the South. But in the 50s and 60s, Democrats embraced the civil rights movement, costing them the white Southern vote. Meanwhile, the Republican Party successfully wooed disaffected white racists with a "Southern strategy" that championed "states' rights."

It's an easy story to believe, but this year two political scientists called it into question. In their book "The End of Southern Exceptionalism," Richard Johnston of the University of Pennsylvania and Byron Shafer of the University of Wisconsin argue that the shift in the South from Democratic to Republican was overwhelmingly a question not of race but of economic growth. In the postwar era, they note, the South transformed itself from a backward region to an engine of the national economy, giving rise to a sizable new wealthy suburban class. This class, not surprisingly, began to vote for the party that best represented its economic interests: the G.O.P. Working-class whites, however — and here's the surprise — even those in areas with large black populations, stayed loyal to the Democrats. (This was true until the 90s, when the nation as a whole turned rightward in Congressional voting.)

The two scholars support their claim with an extensive survey of election returns and voter surveys. To give just one example: in the 50s, among Southerners in the low-income tercile, 43 percent voted for Republican Presidential candidates, while in the high-income tercile, 53 percent voted Republican; by the 80s, those figures were 51 percent and 77 percent, respectively. Wealthy Southerners shifted rightward in droves but poorer ones didn't.

To be sure, Shafer says, many whites in the South aggressively opposed liberal Democrats on race issues. "But when folks went to the polling booths," he says, "they didn't shoot off their own toes. They voted by their economic preferences, not racial preferences." Shafer says these results should give liberals hope. "If Southern politics is about class and not race," he says, "then they can get it back."

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 09:05 PM

Op-ed from another tin-foiler...

((((((((((yawn))))))))))))))...

B~

Oh, BTW, Sawz... Do us all a favor... Google up the 1960 census and check out the % of black voters in each Southern State, factor in the voter suppression of the times and then come back and, in your own words, re-explain your tin-foil hypothesis...

This one will be real funny...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 09:12 PM

BTW, your op-ed doesn't contain one piece of evidence that LBJ or Dems engineered the Southern Strategy...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 09:56 PM

So you are throwing the New York Times under da bus and replacing it with the "source" that Soros, the 14th richest American, had to bail out to keep the mythology alive?

This is what I Googled up

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 10:09 PM

No, I'm saying that Clay Risen's op-ed/article ain't all that it's cracked up to be in supporting your hypothesis that the Dems and/or LBJ engineered the Southern Strategy...

As for your Googling??? Exhibit #2,615 that you don't want to discuss issues but are pathologically obsessed with me...

But never mind your mental illness issues... Here's the real deal in terms of real American History... The Democratic Party and LBJ had nothing to gain by pushing the Civil Rights Act of 1964... The numbers weren't there... There weren't enough black voters to overcome the white reactionaries... If you, however, have knowledge that the 99% of American historians have missed then you need to lay it out...

If you don't??? Remember that song by Kenny Rogers??? "You gotta know when to fold 'um"??? You are there...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 10:13 PM

I think it is funny that Bobert would think someone else has prove his assertions.

The two scholars did their homework. Why can't Blowhard Bobert?

He must be ((((((((((yawn)))))))))))))) to buzzed.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 10:41 PM

Where did "they" (?) say that the Dems or LBJ engineered the Southern Strategy, Saws???

Well, Clay Risen, which BTW is one guy, not two, didn't...

In other words, guess again...

You are grasping at anything...

Get an education, man... You are looking like a fish out of water... There are those of us who know American history and sniff out that fakes quite easily...

You, Sawz, fall in the category...

Your grade for tonight from a former American History teacher: F+... You get the plus for trying even if you ain't connecting any dots...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 10:57 PM

Aren't all of you ashamed that you fed the troll and wasted so much mudcat memory?
I know it's hard- I think I have almost broken the habit.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 11:10 PM

Why does somebody else have to say what you believe first?

Why do your convictions have to line up with someone elses?

You are on of the sheep in the flock seeking protection from Boss Hogg.

Definitely not a free thinker or an independent thinker.

"I'll have those ni**ers voting Democrat for the next 200 years"

"we've got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference."

Care to analyze these LBJ statements? Was that not a Southern Strategy?

I will admit that there were some Republicans that confessed to using a Southern Strategy way later on but the Dems used their Southern Strategy first.

Looks to me like the Democrats finally gave up fighting the Republicans against Civil Rights and fucked over the black people to get their vote. Now they think they own it and get all pissed when they go off the plantation and go conservative. Then they need to be lynched.

An ALL those Dixiecrats that turned into Republicans, the shitload, who were they? How many? Are you going to keep being a blowhard about that?

At least you are beginning to look for facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 08:52 AM

Google up the 1969 census (or even the 1970 census) and then ask yourself this question:

If we chase away all the white voters in the South and get the black voters will we win????

This comes down to logic over stringing together a lot of chicken manure to make chicken salad...

Just use simple logic, Saws... If you have any... Your hypothesis is badly flawed in terms of logic and real history... And, as per usual, it is based on taking quotes out of context... That makes for good conspiracy theories but will always come up short in the reality department... Not only that, as I have pointed out, it is not only academically lazy but downright ***dishonest***...

You badly need to go to college and get an education... What you have going now is Exhibit #2,869 that "a little learning is a dangerous thing"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 10:13 AM

Opps... Make that "1960 census".... typo... there wasn't a 1969 census...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 11:09 PM

It's a shame you didn't learn anything at Blowhard U. about the Dixiecrats Bobert.

You heard about them and you want to brag about how much you know but you never present anything to support your assertions.

All you can do is stalk me and make hateful personal attacks.

Where is your highly educated analysis of What LBJ said? You don't want to talk about that, Only me.

Suit your self Bobert. The best defense is a good offense they say.

Now after your smokescreen distractions, back to the topic

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 11:22 PM

Does the highly educated Bobert know more than this guy? At least this guy knows who made the remark.

Was he talking about slavery? You bet your ass he was.

Charlie Rangel: Biden's gaffe was clearly about slavery

CBS

(CBS News) Democratic Rep. Charlie Rangel says that Vice President Joe Biden's recent remarks that Republicans are "going to put y'all back in chains" were clearly referencing slavery -- and clearly a mistake.

Biden's Aug. 14 remarks to a crowd in Danville, Virginia drew sharp rebukes from Republicans and some Democrats who said he crossed the line.

Romney has vowed "to let the big banks write their own rules -- unchain Wall Street," Biden said in Danville. "They're going to put y'all back in chains."

The Obama campaign dismissed the "faux outrage" and said Biden was simply adopting the metaphor that Republicans first used by saying they wanted to "unshackle" businesses from regulations.

Rangel, however, said in a radio interview with Roberto Perez that the rhetoric was a mistake.

"Was he talking about slavery? You bet your ass he was. Was he using the vernacular? Yes, he was," said Rangel, a longtime New York Democrat who is a founding member of the Congressional Black Caucus. "Did he think it was cute ... Yes, he did. Was it something stupid to say? You bet your life it was stupid."

Subject: RE: BS: Going to put y'all back in chains
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 10:33 AM

LBJ:"It'll he Reconstruction all over again"

Antilynching bill: Step toward Reconstruction II?

December 27, 2010 by Lew Powell

" North Carolina's Josiah Bailey became the first Democrat Southern senator to outline what he perceived as a dangerous aspect of the 1937 antilynching measure…. To him, it represented the vanguard of a much larger movement aimed at dismantling Southern society.

" I fear it, I dread it, I fight it, I argue against it because I know the moment it goes through the very men who put it forward will almost be compelled to go ahead with the old Civil Rights Act [of 1875]….

"Reconstruction all over again…. will destroy the South. "

– From "Delaying the Dream: Southern Democrat Senators and the Fight Against Civil Rights, 1938-1965″ by Keith M. Finley (2008)

The Civil Rights Act of 1875, passed in the waning days of the last biracial Congress of the 19th century, was not enforced, and the Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional in 1883. It contained many provisions — such as guaranteed access to public accommodations — that eventually were included in 1960s legislation.