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OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated
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Subject: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated? From: John MacKenzie Date: 27 Dec 07 - 08:32 AM Once again it appears that violence takes the place of democracy in Pakistan. I feared this would happen when she went back from her self imposed exile. It's a sad day for democracy. G |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated? From: Jeri Date: 27 Dec 07 - 08:37 AM Bhutto Unhurt in Suicide Bomb Attack at Pakistan Election Rally ...unless you have information I can't find on the web. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated? From: artbrooks Date: 27 Dec 07 - 08:40 AM Mixed reports so far. CNN, BBC and ABC say she was killed, AP feed says she was 'only" injured". More to follow. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated? From: skipy Date: 27 Dec 07 - 08:40 AM http://news.bbc.co.uk/ Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated? From: Jeri Date: 27 Dec 07 - 08:41 AM Then again, the Independent has reported her death: Benazir Bhutto dies |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated? From: Dave Hanson Date: 27 Dec 07 - 08:41 AM Confirmed on the BBC lunchtime news, she has died from her injuries. eric |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated? From: autolycus Date: 27 Dec 07 - 08:57 AM And BBC Radio got confirmation from Pakistan, too. Fundamentalists who are opposed to democracy,are being fingered. oh, former Foreign Office minister Dennis McShane suggests the taliban (who are descendants of the mujehadin(?) that Reagan and Thatcher created to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan.) P. not developed into a familiar democracy. I'm only qualified to pass on. Ivor |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated? From: maeve Date: 27 Dec 07 - 08:58 AM I'm sorry to hear of it, although not at all surprised. Thanks for posting the news, Giok. maeve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: katlaughing Date: 27 Dec 07 - 09:59 AM Dammit. I really liked and respected her. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 27 Dec 07 - 10:00 AM Tragic for her, Pakistan and the World. For the US admin and the UK govt, just another case of reaping what they've sown in that ill-starred country. With the Musharraf-Bhutto plan now kaput, I wonder if they've got a plan B? Next step: indulge the Kosov separatists regardless of the legalities. Happy new year folks. |
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Subject: Obit: Benazir Bhutto killed by suicide bomber From: GUEST,LTS pretending to work Date: 27 Dec 07 - 10:08 AM Former Pakistan Prime Minister Ms Benazir Bhutto has been killed by a suicide bomber at an election rally. For some reason my work computer won't allow me to make blickies but hopefully someone will make this link to the BBC News site work. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2228796.stm An incredible woman, she fought against terrorism all her political life. LTS
Threads combined. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: Riginslinger Date: 27 Dec 07 - 10:13 AM There's no force on the face of the planet more destructive than religion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: alanabit Date: 27 Dec 07 - 10:15 AM I liked and respected her too, but I can't easily overlook the fact that her ill advised return had already cost the lives of 120 innocent people in October. Another 20 died today. I am not the only person to fear that more will soon follow. Murder is always wrong, but Bhutto's demise was predictable from the day she returned. When the very unlamented Zia Al Huq died in a suspicious plane crash a few years back, it was all swept under the carpet with indecent haste. The people, who murdered Bhutto were wrong. However, until a culture prevails, in which all murder is spurned (of the bad as well as the good), the Rajiv Ghandis and Benazir Bhuttos of this world will always be seen as legitimate targets by their opponents. That is a hard truth to speak - and it will shock and anger many. There is no such thing as a good murder. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: GUEST,LTS pretending to work Date: 27 Dec 07 - 10:15 AM Thanks Clone, I did check but neglected to refresh first - didn't realise I'd been working that long without checking in! And by the time I'd asked someone to combine, it had already been closed. I must stop working so hard... LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 27 Dec 07 - 10:24 AM 'There's no force on the face of the planet more destructive than religion.' === People have been covering up evil motives with noble motives for centuries. It's called hypocrisy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: alanabit Date: 27 Dec 07 - 10:25 AM I'll agree with you there Leenia. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: Megan L Date: 27 Dec 07 - 10:27 AM The most destructive force on earth is mankind they dont need any other excuse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: gnu Date: 27 Dec 07 - 10:35 AM It's a sad day for democracy indeed, Giok. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: topical tom Date: 27 Dec 07 - 11:01 AM Truly a sad day for Pakistan and the world.She was a bright light in a sea of darkness, another martyr for democracy.God bless her. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: black walnut Date: 27 Dec 07 - 11:05 AM Horrendous!!!!! ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego Date: 27 Dec 07 - 11:25 AM Benazir Bhutto's death is a loss for all of us. In a country and region rife with religious zealotry and rage, it is not a surprise. Sadly, any religion is only what humans make of it, however noble its intent and how exhalted and revered its founding figure(s). Tyrants and megalomaniacs have used religion and blind adherents thereto for untold centuries as a means to achieve their ends. Whatever your core beliefs, religion-based or secular, if you count the individual human life as precious and valuable, you must not only reject murder and those who advocate and use it for political or personal gain - you must be willing to stand up to them. There is always the possibility of peace. Only intransigence and the lack of willingness to compromise for the greater good precludes the manifestation of it. If you wish to see hope, look into the eyes of a child. We should be better than this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: Riginslinger Date: 27 Dec 07 - 11:29 AM "Benazir Bhutto's death is a loss for all of us." I would certainly agree with that! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Dec 07 - 11:40 AM Musharraf's "house arrest" of Bhutto was seen as restrictive at the time, but he did buy her a few more weeks. Ironic, perhaps, and he won't get past this event easily. I am of the view that sometimes removing the "strong man" who dominates a nation is a mistake because of the power vacuum (i.e., Iran and Iraq) that erupts. These are, in the most dangerous sense, "interesting times." SRS From the New York Times Benazir Bhutto, 54, Lived in Eye of Pakistan Storm The daughter of one of Pakistan's most flamboyant and democratically inclined prime ministers, Benazir Bhutto, 54, served two turbulent tenures of her own in that post. A deeply polarizing figure, she lived in exile in London for years with corruption charges hanging over her head before returning home this fall to present herself as the answer to her nation's trouble. She was killed on Thursday in a combined shooting and bombing attack at a rally in Rawalpindi, one of a series of open rallies she had insisted on holding since her return to Pakistan this fall, after years in self-imposed exile. A woman of grand ambitions and a taste for complex political maneuvering, Ms. Bhutto, 54, was long the leader of the country's largest opposition political party, founded by her father, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. Even from exile, her leadership was firm, and when she returned, she proclaimed herself a tribune of democracy, leading rallies in opposition to Mr. Musharraf, like the one at which she died. In a foreshadowing of the attack that killed her, a triumphal parade that celebrated her return to Pakistan in her home city of Karachi killed at least 134 of her supporters and wounded more than 400. Ms. Bhutto herself narrowly escaped harm. Her political plans were also sidetracked: she had been negotiating for months with the country's military leader, President Pervez Musharraf, over a power-sharing arrangement, only to see General Musharraf declare emergency rule instead. Her record in power, and the dance of veils she has deftly performed since her return — one moment standing up to General Musharraf, then next seeming to accommodate him, and never quite revealing her actual intentions — stirred as much distrust as hope among Pakistanis. A graduate of Harvard and Oxford, she brought the backing of Washington and London, where she impressed with her political lineage and her considerable charm. She also became the first female leader of a Muslim nation when she became prime minister in 1988 at the age of 35. But during her two stints in that job — first from 1988 to 1990 and again from 1993 to 1996 — she developed a reputation for acting imperiously and impulsively. She faced deep questions about her personal probity in public office, which led to corruption cases against her in Switzerland, Spain and Britain, as well as in Pakistan. Ms. Bhutto saw herself as the inheritor of her father's mantle, often spoke of how he encouraged her to study the lives of legendary female leaders ranging from Indira Gandhi to Joan of Arc. She grew up in the most rarefied atmosphere the country had to offer. One longtime friend and adviser, Peter W. Galbraith, a former American ambassador to Croatia, said he and Ms. Bhutto believed they first met in 1962 when they were children: he the son of John Kenneth Galbraith, the American ambassador to India; she the daughter of the future Pakistani prime minister. Mr. Galbraith's father was accompanying Jacqueline Kennedy to a horse show in Lahore. They met again at Harvard, where Mr. Galbraith remembers Ms. Bhutto arriving as a prim 16-year-old fresh from a Karachi convent who liked to bake cakes. After her father's death — he was hanged by another general who seized power, Zia ul-Haq — Ms. Bhutto stepped into the spotlight as his successor. Following the idea of big ambition, Ms. Bhutto called herself chairperson for life of the opposition Pakistan Peoples Party, a seemingly odd title in an organization based on democratic ideals and one she has acknowledged quarreling over with her mother, Nusrat Bhutto, in the early 1990s. She was also wont to self-aggrandize. She recently boasted that three million people came out to greet her in Karachi on her return last month, calling it Pakistan's "most historic" rally. In fact, crowd estimates were closer to 200,000, many of them provincial party members who had received small amounts of money to make the trip. Such flourishes led questioning in Pakistan about the strength of her democratic ideals in practice, and a certain distrust, particularly amid signs of back-room deal-making with General Musharraf, the military ruler she opposed. "She believes she is the chosen one, that she is the daughter of Bhutto and everything else is secondary," said Feisal Naqvi, a corporate lawyer in Lahore who knew Ms. Bhutto. When Ms. Bhutto was re-elected to a second term as Prime Minister, her style of government combined both the traditional and the modern, said Zafar Rathore, a senior civil servant at the time. But her view of the role of government differed little from the classic notion in Pakistan that the state was the preserve of the ruler who dished out favors to constituents and colleagues, he recalled. As secretary of interior, responsible for the Pakistani police force, Mr. Rathore, who is now retired, said he tried to get an appointment with Ms. Bhutto to explain the need for accountability in the force. He was always rebuffed, he said. Finally, when he was seated next to her in a small meeting, he said to her, "I've been waiting to see you," he recounted. "Instantaneously, she said: 'I am very busy, what do you want. I'll order it right now.' " She could not understand that a civil servant might want to talk about policies, he said. Instead, he said, ''she understood that when all civil servants have access to the sovereign, they want to ask for something." But until her death, Ms. Bhutto ruled the party with an iron hand, jealously guarding her position, even while leading the party in absentia for nearly a decade. Members of her party saluted her return to Pakistan, saying she was the best choice against General Musharraf. Chief among her attributes, they said, was her sheer determination. Ms. Bhutto's marriage to Asif Ali Zardari was arranged by her mother, a fact that Ms. Bhutto has often said was easily explained, even for a modern, highly educated Pakistani woman. To be acceptable to the Pakistani public as a politician she could not be a single woman, and what was the difference, she would ask, between such a marriage and computer dating? Mr. Zardari is known for his love of polo and other perquisites of the good life like fine clothes, expensive restaurants, homes in Dubai and London, and an apartment in New York. He was minister of investment in Ms. Bhutto's second government. And it was from that perch that he made many of the deals that haunted Ms. Bhutto, and himself, in the courts. There were accusations that the couple had illegally taken $1.5 billion from the state. It is a figure that Ms. Bhutto has vigorously contested. Indeed, one of Ms. Bhutto's main objectives in seeking to return to power was to restore the reputation of her husband, who was jailed for eight years in Pakistan, said Abdullah Riar, a former senator in the Pakistani Parliament and a former colleague of Ms. Bhutto's. "She told me, 'Time will prove he is the Nelson Mandela of Pakistan,' " Mr. Riar said. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: Rog Peek Date: 27 Dec 07 - 12:00 PM Very brave lady!...very sad. Rog |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: john f weldon Date: 27 Dec 07 - 12:06 PM Who dunnit? Que bono? (Who benefits?) Musharraf. Either directly, or by allowing it to happen. As Adrien Monk would say, "He's the guy." |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: GUEST,cy Date: 27 Dec 07 - 12:24 PM my heart aches for all the peoples in the region. Is there ever to be peace ? |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: Tweed Date: 27 Dec 07 - 02:01 PM No peace there for a while and the fire's likely to spread further fore it's over. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: autolycus Date: 27 Dec 07 - 02:21 PM "Is there ever to be peace ? " That's the beginning of a huge and deep examination of the causes. Most people don't (or can't) go there. Ivor |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: Riginslinger Date: 27 Dec 07 - 02:28 PM "Que bono? (Who benefits?) Musharraf. Either directly, or by allowing it to happen." I know it's hard to believe, but I don't think he did it. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: GUEST,geopolemics.com Date: 27 Dec 07 - 02:36 PM I take issue with John f Weldon who points to Musharraf as responsible for Benazirs tragic death. When he speaks of "allowing it to happen" he betrays a lack of understanding about what kind of society Pakistan is. A significant portion of society and the prevailing religion there is homicidal, life is held cheap and the fanatics seek to turn back the clock to the seventh century. Apart from the Taleban and Al Qaeda militants, a large part of mainstream Islam in Pakistan is heavily influenced by Saudi Wahhabism. Benazir's main political rival Nawaz Sharif is a Wahhabi and during his time as prime minister ( he was unseated by Musharraf) tried to force Sharia law on Pakistan, which he narrowly failed to do. In short, terrorism in such a society is not down to the failure of the military or the police, rather of the Islamic "priesthood" the senior religious scholars and leaders who continually fail to issue binding fatwas against terror killings. In a fanatical climate like this violence then becomes endemic. As to any posibility that Mushrraf was directly reponsible, in the first place he is himself the survivor of three fullscale terror attacks - he has arrested more al Qaeda suspects than in any other nation on earth; secondly nothing in his personal history would suggest he was or would in any way be complicit with cowardly assassination.Thirdly, as elected president he could have worked with Benazir as prime minister. It is highly unlikely that he could have any dealings with Nawaz Sharif whose main politiacl objective if elected would be to destroy Musharraf who deposed him eight years ago. Musharraf with his instincts to modernise and secularise Pakistan, as Kemal Atataurk did ninety years ago in Turkey, remains the best hope for his nation, and remembering this is a nuclear armed nation,it involves the world. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: Joe Offer Date: 27 Dec 07 - 03:29 PM
At one time, I was very impressed by Benazhir Bhutto, and I saw her as a long-awaited hope for a war-torn nation. I lost faith in her once she came to power, because she seemed to play the same power games all the other politicians played. Was she just another power broker, or was she the victim of bad press? I don't know. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: Big Mick Date: 27 Dec 07 - 03:49 PM This was fairly predictable, and I believe that even Ms. Bhutto understood that. She will be sorely missed in the region, but hopefully the right folks will respond in the right way, and bring needed change. Martyrdom is a powerful tool for change, sometime good and sometimes bad. As to the comment, There's no force on the face of the planet more destructive than religion., it is shortsighted and biased. There are many things that folks with an agenda will use to further their point, in this case an anti-religion stance. I have found that at the root of most of these arguments, be they religious, racial, feminism, etc. lies money, power, and greed. I don't begrudge anyone their atheism, agnosticism, theism, paganism, or any other -ism they choose to practice or not practice. An example of conflict in which religion is seen as the root, when actually it is economic at its genesis, is "The Troubles". The "Orange Card" as it is called has been used for centuries to keep folks divided in order that landed or monied interests could justify their greedy actions. The latest version had a great deal to do with the workers in the North, Protestant and Catholic, starting to realize they had more in common with each other than with the monied interests among the transplanted. The card was played, and a century or so later we are still dealing with it. One can find the same thing in the USA with regard to Native Peoples, and around the world with regard to historical and contemporary slavery. My opinion is that some folks will miss no opportunity to take shots, even if some research would show the real story. Ms. Bhutto was a change agent. In the real world these are always targets for those with the most to lose from change. Take it from one who lives it. Mick |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: akenaton Date: 27 Dec 07 - 03:53 PM Violence has always been a large part of organised religion....right back to Old Testament times, but before we start whitewashing this by calling it a religious killing, lets think. How many leading politicians in the US have been murdered? Can we hold up "democracy" as being perfect? Bhutto was killed not for religion but for power. Just like most other political assasinations. She was probably even more corrupt than the vultures who squabble over who is to control the US or the UK. Democracy as envisaged by Bush, Hillary the Hawk, Macavity Brown or Benazir Bhutto is simply a device to enslave all of us and facilitate coersion and manipulation. Don't waste your tears, Bhutto would have done the Wests bidding regardless of the wishes of the Pakistani people. Once again, an exercise in exporting "democracy" comes to grief. Wonder if George will invade??...Ake |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: john f weldon Date: 27 Dec 07 - 03:53 PM Geo - Your description of Musharraf make him sound like the late Shah of Iran; similar words were certainly used while that guy held power. If that's the best we can hope for Pakistan, God help us. -jfw |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: Bill D Date: 27 Dec 07 - 03:55 PM Joe...you are of course correct, but as long as religion is USED by the greedy to incite evil in others, and to fuel and defend their evil behavior, it is difficult to separate the issues. I have said many times that as long as people are TOLD, with little attempt to tell them otherwise, that certain types of murder gets them directly into Paradise, this will keep happening. Now, it seems, even moderate Muslims are afraid to say otherwise. Does no one remember that it was not that long ago that Christian 'differences of opinion' were settled in similar ways? |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: skarpi Date: 27 Dec 07 - 03:57 PM hmmmm I am gonna say this in Icelandic " Þetta eru HELVÍTIS AUMINGJAR að RÁÐAST Á KONU " AUMINGJAR,AUMINGJAR,AUMINGJAR . and they cant even say who they are . I am afraid that now the Us and the rest of the world are in danger of terrorists can take over the nuclear bombs. Its not Iran that you should be worry about now. All the best Skarpi |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: john f weldon Date: 27 Dec 07 - 04:09 PM Alas - Remember the days when one heard the phrase; "It's not all black and white, just various shades of grey"? The modern equivalent: "It is, in fact, all black, but some shades are darker than others." Or, to be less cryptic, what we debate is... ...which version of Evil is the Least? Ugh. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: Riginslinger Date: 27 Dec 07 - 04:11 PM Is that Icelandic? Does it tell us that the invasion of Iraq helped in a very big was to destabilize Pakistan? |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: katlaughing Date: 27 Dec 07 - 04:22 PM However, until a culture prevails, in which all murder is spurned (of the bad as well as the good), the Rajiv Ghandis and Benazir Bhuttos of this world will always be seen as legitimate targets by their opponents. That is a hard truth to speak - and it will shock and anger many. There is no such thing as a good murder. No truer words have been written, alanabit. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: John MacKenzie Date: 27 Dec 07 - 04:29 PM A Q Khan, a national hero in Pakistan because he gave them the nuclear bomb, also gave the know how to make one to Iran, and possibly other Middle East states. Make no mistake about it, Pakistan is, unfortunately, a power broker in the region. G |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: Irish sergeant Date: 27 Dec 07 - 04:50 PM Not only a tragedy for Pakistan but for the rest of us as well. She was Pakistan's brightest hope and would have been a stabilizing influence. Neil |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: akenaton Date: 27 Dec 07 - 04:54 PM stabilising influence??? |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: Georgiansilver Date: 27 Dec 07 - 04:59 PM Just another act of violence that underpins the state of society. You can blame religion all you like but politics is the sum total cause of these acts..pure politics. It is about people and acts...not about beliefs in Gods or the hereafter. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: Jean(eanjay) Date: 27 Dec 07 - 04:59 PM Benazir Bhutto showed commitment and courage. She waited years to come out of exile. It was clear that "some" were determined to kill her, but she didn't deserve to die. In the bids to assassinate her many other people have also died; very sad indeed. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: Charley Noble Date: 27 Dec 07 - 05:05 PM We'll now never know if she was able to make things better or worse. That's the curse of the political assassination. However, she did have the courage to try, and that in itself will be remembered. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: akenaton Date: 27 Dec 07 - 05:05 PM akenaton......26nov "Bush will soon be gone in America and they have left behind in Iraq not a "democracy"...not even the chance of a democracy, but either an Islamist republic or, if the Americans can find another Saddam, a country dominated by Sunni death squads and once again supported by the USA. The arguments have all been won. We have ignited a fire in the Middle East that is now beyond our control. For the next chapter watch Pakistan!!......Ake" |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: Jim Lad Date: 27 Dec 07 - 05:26 PM "There's no force on the face of the planet more destructive than religion." It seems that there is no sadness so great, no tragedy so horrendous that some atheist or malcontent will not exploit it. Religion, whether you follow a faith or not, was invariably formed, in all cases, out of respect and care for our fellow human beings. Religion by its very nature is extremely vulnerable to exploitation but is not the evil. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: Greg F. Date: 27 Dec 07 - 05:52 PM Your description of Musharraf make him sound like the late Shah of Iran ... Exactly. Spot on. Or Noriega, or Pinochet or any of the other dozens of tinpot dictators created/supported/bankrolled by the good old U. S. of A., the "Best Country On Earth". Which country is obviously incapable of learning from its myriad mistakes. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 27 Dec 07 - 06:05 PM Joe is right to allude to major concerns that sullied Benazir's two tints as prime ministet, not the least of which was the behaviour of her husband "Mr Ten Percent," subsequently jailed for his part in the corruption that ran unchecked under her leadership. None of this makes me any less shocked and appalled by her murder. Where Joe is on less certain ground is in his defence of religion (seemingly ALL religions). No doubt a case can be argued by the deeply committed faith-merchants, but the point to which they have no answer is that once human-beings attach greater loyalty to their gods than to their fellow human-beings they are a threat to all of us. (Any justification for such loyalty is greatly undermined by the fact that they cannot even agree among themselves which gods are real.) We don't know yet who killed Benazir, or why, but we do know that the perpetrator killed himself in the same calamity. That suggests he had been brainwashed (the most common way of acquiring faith) by promises of vestial virgins in some fantasy afterlife. Perhaps he was remembering some lines by Rupert Brooke: Fish (fly-replete, in depth of June, Dawdling away their wat'ry noon) Ponder deep wisdom, dark or clear, Each secret fishy hope or fear.... We darkly know, by Faith we cry, The future is not Wholly Dry.... But somewhere, beyond Space and Time. Is wetter water, slimier slime! And there (they trust) there swimmeth One Who swam ere rivers were begun.... And under that Almighty Fin, The littlest fish may enter in.... Oh! never fly conceals a hook, Fish say, in the Eternal Brook.... Unfading moths, immortal flies, And the worm that never dies. And in that Heaven of all their wish, There shall be no more land, say fish. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: Benazhir Bhutto Assassinated From: GUEST,geopolemics.com Date: 27 Dec 07 - 07:08 PM I disagree with John F Weldon Greg F in comparing Musharraf to the Shah of Iran. The shah was unquestionably a tyrant and a western stooge. Musharraf was the country's top soldier and his rebellion against Nawaz Sharif was a Pakistani affair not a CIA coup. Later on, at the time of 9/11 he was told that he had two choices - to support either the US or the islamists. He chose the west. Would you have preferred he went with al Qaeda, or do you think that an Islamic state leader shouldn't also be totally opposd to Islamic terrorism, - just as much a threat to him as to the west? Look at it another way. worldaudit.org lists the 150 biggest countries in the world in a democracy league table. Only 38 of those are full democracies. Another 38 are partly democratic. That leaves 74 which are not democratic at all. But they all are sovereign states and all have leaders. Do you think that any of those leaders who are friendly to the US are no better than the Shah? How would YOU deal with tbese unsatisfactory leaders and undemocratic states? In that context, Musharraf who DID submit himself to election and took off his uniform to be a civilian, may not be as cleanly elected as say George W Bush in Florida 2000, but on checking the FACTS (those boring things) doesn't look at all bad. In this hour of need for his country he is probably all that stands between some kind of future and a complete breakdown (and this is a nuclear armed state). So dont shrug off the world's current best hope for these weapons remaining under firm control, by invalid parallels to the unlamented Shah. By the way, leaving aside the Shah's unforgivable tyranny, don't you think the world might be a safer and a better place if IRAN had indeed become a secular state, like Turkey? |
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