BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Aug 25 - 08:10 AM

Its not over till the fat person pontificates.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Aug 25 - 09:20 AM

An interesting FB Reel, I believe expressing perfectly the view of the silent majority of UK-ers, those who don’t have any intention of voting for the Reform UK fascists, those who don’t shag flags, those who don’t allow themselves to be triggered by Rage-Bait SM threads…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Aug 25 - 12:57 PM

Yvette Cooper seeks to overturn/end the ruling about the Bell Hotel.

Does this give us a new definition for 'Bell-end'?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Aug 25 - 03:18 PM

LOL Nigel!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Sep 25 - 05:35 AM

I find the display of patriotic flags silly.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Sep 25 - 03:56 PM

I am pissed off about the possible abolition of paper tickets on trains, so we are all expected to buy expensive mobile phones and put apps on them, what about old people and poor people who cannot afford expensive mobiles.
In Ireland old people travel on all public transport for free.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 04 Sep 25 - 12:17 PM

Hear hear, Sandman. My immediate reaction on reading about this was: "Thus, one misstep at a time, we become acclimatised to the Surveillance State."

We've refused, multiple times, to have (*akkh* *phht*) smart meters installed for gas and electricity. When we found recently that our water meter was broken (I'll save the balance of that saga for later), I was annoyed that the replacment was allegedly smart; then highly amused to hear that they couldn't read it remotely because it uses a Vodaphone cellphone chip, and Vodaphone don't have any masts round here.

Must go .... champagne being opened.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 02:30 AM

Dorries defects to Reform. just Anther self seeking career politician let s hope she disappears in to a political black hole

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 07:05 AM

"Dorries defects to Reform. just Anther self seeking career politician let's hope she disappears in to a political black hole"

If we're discussing self-serving (or even 'self-seeking') career politicians, is it time to mention Angela Rayner?

Or is this thread only for bashing the right?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 07:25 AM

*Breaking News* Within 10 minutes of posting I hear on the midday news that she's resigned. That must be the power of the Mudcat ;)

BBC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 07:31 AM

From The Telegraph (online):

In his letter to the Prime Minister, Sir Laurie Magnus, the independent adviser on ministerial interests, said: “It is highly unfortunate [...] that Ms Rayner failed to pay the correct rate of SDLT on this purchase, particularly given her status and responsibilities as the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government and as Deputy Prime Minister.

“She believed that she relied on the legal advice she had received, but unfortunately did not heed the caution contained within it, which acknowledged that it did not constitute expert tax advice and which suggested that expert advice be sought.”

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 07:54 AM

But she has had the decency and strength of character to resign, Nigel - unlike numerous ministers over the past fourteen years of Tory mis-rule who, when caught with their metaphorical trousers down, hung on until parliamentary and media pressure forced their PM to sack them.

And all for £40,000 - what about the billions handed by the Tories to their backers, friends, pub landlords, and fellow Tories, in fake PPE ‘contracts’ during the Covid pandemic?

Words like ‘glasshouses’ and ‘stones’ spring very readily to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 08:08 AM

I think she was wrong to not pay the duty in full. I susoect it was due to bad advice but, in her position, she should have checked so I think it is right that she has resigned.

The hypocricy of the media is astounding though. Where was the outrage when Boris was decorating his flat or when Rishi Sunak shielded his wife's non-dom tax status?

Has it always been this bad? I am sure that politicians were not as sleazey in the past but maybe I am looking through rose coloured specs!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 08:59 AM

”Or is this thread only for bashing the right?”

Well, Nigel, over the past 14 years of Tory mis-rule, they’ve made themselves such easy targets, haven’t they? And Kemi Badenough is doing her best (or perhaps I mean worst?) to keep up the tradition… ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Rain Dog
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 09:15 AM

”Or is this thread only for bashing the right?”

Good question. In the past it would seem that posters have driven away those who might have a different view from themselves. BUT we should always remember that it is only a handful of people who do post here anyway.

The Rayner resignation is likely to cause further turmoil within the Labour party when tbey should be concentrating on running the country. Sad but true.

In this day and age all politicians,regardless of party, have to appear whiter than white. Not an easy task. Makes me wonder why anyone would take on the job.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 09:54 AM

rayner is right wing so is starmer they are establishment stooges, starmer the man who wanted to get rid of pensioners so they died of hypothermia, a right winger pretending to be a member of what was once a socialist party, he is no more left wing than sir alec douglas home

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 10:47 AM

From Attila the Stockbroker on Facebook

"Angela Rayner's resigned. Yes, she appears to have made a serious error of judgement. Yes, she's deputy prime minister in what is in my opinion the most disappointing Labour government in my lifetime.

But her hounding by a right wing press whose billionaire owners dodge ludicrous amounts of tax as a matter of course and ignore far more reprehensible financial activities pursued by people whose politics they promote is hypocritical and disgusting. Just today, it has been revealed that Farage uses a private company to pay less tax on his media earnings.

All decency, all intelligence, all compassion have been leeched from British politics. We're a banana republic with a king. Rayner, to me, is basically a woman with a good heart who wants to do her best for people from the same background she rose from - and has had the misfortune to try and do that at the very worst period in modern political history.

The ultimate irony of our age is that many of the people who cheer her downfall the loudest will be people living in a similar situation to where she began, sneering at someone who was once one of their own while cheering the tax-avoiding, Barbour-wearing, billionaire-backed Farage.

I did my best to win them over for a long time, but I have walked away from such people now."

Best summary I have seen

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Rain Dog
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 11:22 AM

Whereas back in the real world, Farage does not appear to be doing anything illegal. I personally think the tax laws in the UK need to be drastically revised & simplified. We might ask ourselves why successive governments, of both parties, refuse to do this.

Rayner had to resign as Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government. She probably could have kept on as Deputy Prime Minister. It would have avoided the needless internal party politics. The majority of people do not belong to any party and have little interest in internal bickering.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 11:24 AM

BWM:
"But she has had the decency and strength of character to resign, Nigel - unlike numerous ministers over the past fourteen years of Tory mis-rule who, when caught with their metaphorical trousers down, hung on until parliamentary and media pressure forced their PM to sack them."

She has had plenty of time to resign since this whole affair first came to light. She delayed that until it had come to the point, with the report by Sir Laurie Magnus in, she had to resign, or be sacked. If you believe that that is a measure of her 'decency and strength of character' then we are clearly using different languages.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 11:50 AM

Nigel:

She referred herself to Sir Laurie Magnus, the Prime Minister's independent adviser on ministerial interests, for investigation, and awaited his decision on whether she had broken the ministerial code. When his decision confirmed that she had, she resigned without further delay.

That seems perfectly reasonable, honest, and decent AFAIC. If it seems otherwise to you, I find that very strange indeed, coming from a supporter of a Party with such an appalling record of dishonesty over its past 14 years in government. ‘One rule for you, a different rule for us’ seems to be one of the strongest principles of the Tories and their supporters.

Indeed we do appear to use different languages, and we seem to have different standards where judgment of parliamentary behaviour is concerned, thank goodness.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 01:30 PM

The One True Standard Way To Resign: Deny everything, hang on by fingernails to current post, and wait for the Prime Minister to utter the keyphrase "full and unconditional backing". Wait a fortnight more for the baying in the tabloids to become deafening, and *then* decide to spend more time with directorships spouse and children.

That's been the tradition since the days of Maggie Hatchett. Why change it? Has someone mislaid the pearl-handled revolver that used to get mentioned on such occasions?

As an aside, the baying in the Meeja has fully lived down to my expectations of them, and then some. No new depth unplumbed, an' all that.

PS: Extra points, backwoodsman, for proving that it's not just me that remembers "thirteen years of Tory misrule".

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 01:36 PM

And I noticed you studiously avoided commenting on your own Party’s members’ errrrmmm…’indiscretions’…Nigel. Here are just a few to remind you…

Jeremy Hunt - ‘forgot’ seven flats he owned
Geoffrey Cox ‘forgot’ to declare £400,000
Ian Duncan Smith ‘forgot’ a company paid him £25,000
Theresa Villiers ‘forgot’ she owned £70,000 of Shell shares
Zahawi ‘forgot’ to pay £4.8 million in taxes

And that’s without mentioning Michelle Mone’s 12 million contract for non-existent PPE, or Matt Hancock handing a contract to his local pub landlord for non-existent PPE, or any of the other fake contracts handed out by Tory ministers to their friends and benefactors.

So I’m not about to take any lessons from a Tory-supporter getting all ‘holier-than-thou’ and finger-pointey about Angela Rayner.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 01:37 PM

@MaJoC the Filk - my last post was for Nigel, not you of course!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 04:16 PM

No problems, BWM. It permits me to expand on something (here's one I misdrafted earlier), while Herself watches Angela Rayner's Wake And Autopsy Show on BBC News 24:

All summer, we've had ManFrog's and Agent Orange's one-downmanship ploys dominating the news cycle in Air Strip One; now the Meeja is suddenly fixated on poor Angela, to the exclusion of Outrage of the Week from Washington, and even the atrocities in Gaza. Curious: anyone would think it was all carefully timed to throw gravel into the Downing Street gearbox, right at the beginning of a difficult Parliamentary session. But then I'm forgetting the Pavlovian tendencies of headline writers: "Hold the front page! a Labour politician farted before the Queen!"*

.... I'd best leave it there awhile.

* "I'm sorry, Your Majesty: I didn't know it was your turn."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Sep 25 - 02:03 AM

What has been going on in Epping

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Sep 25 - 02:21 AM

It looks like the far right are stirring up the riots, a bit more important than Rayner, particularly since she has resigned.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Sep 25 - 04:03 PM

BWM:
She referred herself to Sir Laurie Magnus, the Prime Minister's independent adviser on ministerial interests

Only after days of Conservatives insisting that she should be referred.
She 'referred herself' only once it was clear to her that she had no other option, and knowing that the findings would be against her.

That was hardly a noble option.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Sep 25 - 04:40 PM

Still no comment about the examples of ‘forgetfulness’ from your mob, Nigel? I repeat, ‘glasshouses’ and ‘stones’. What a strange set of double-standards you Tories seem to live by.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Sep 25 - 05:22 PM

surely it is irrelevant what party they belong to, all politicians, who behave in a financially dishonest manner   should resign.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Sep 25 - 11:25 PM

That’s my point.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Sep 25 - 09:32 AM

mean while in France

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Sep 25 - 09:37 AM

What's that got to do with Brexit and other UK politics?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Sep 25 - 02:11 PM

Still no comment about the examples of ‘forgetfulness’ from your mob, Nigel? I repeat, ‘glasshouses’ and ‘stones’. What a strange set of double-standards you Tories seem to live by.

I was discussing current news. Both major parties (and most of the minors) have similar histories.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Sep 25 - 02:30 PM

Well, there's dihonesty and there's dishonesty. On one hand there's getting your taxes wrong and paying the price later, and on the other hand there is spending a fortune on tax lawyers to find ways of legally reducing tax liabilities depriving public services.    I know which is the greater wrong in my book, especially where the most wealthy have the means to buy their way out of taxation.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Sep 25 - 02:47 PM

Well, there's dihonesty and there's dishonesty. On one hand there's getting your taxes wrong and paying the price later, and on the other hand there is spending a fortune on tax lawyers to find ways of legally reducing tax liabilities depriving public services.    I know which is the greater wrong in my book, especially where the most wealthy have the means to buy their way out of taxation. (My bold/italics)

And no, I'm not rich, and I used to work for HMRC, so I know a lot about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Sep 25 - 04:01 PM

A Tory and a tax-man! No possibility of redemption - straight to Hell! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Sep 25 - 05:02 PM

The wealthy CAN buy their way out of anything look at Prince Andrew.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Sep 25 - 05:31 PM

If you worked for HMRC then you should be able to discern between the spirit (and purpose) and the letter of the law, and why we have taxes.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Sep 25 - 09:40 PM

SPB: If you worked for HMRC then you should be able to discern between the spirit (and purpose) and the letter of the law, and why we have taxes.

Yes, I can discern between the two. Breaking the 'spirit' of the law is not, necessarily, illegal. Breaking the legal definitions of the law is.

I hope that you understand the distinction.