BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4

Subject: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jul 25 - 07:32 AM

I can't see any movement on the old one since February and it was over the 700 post limit anyway so here is a new one :-)

A link to the old one is here but I don't think it will open unless some kind mod can work some magic?

Anyroads, Dick Miles asked the question elsewhere and I think it is worth discussing more opemly. It was whether a left wing party, mooted by Zarah Sultana and involving Jeremy Corbyn wouls split the left wing vote.

I do not think that the party will take off but, if it did, I am not sure how it would affect things. There is no political left wing in government at the moment but there are a number of movements that are further left than the current Labout party. I think that the best we can hope for is that the more socially concious factions will get together and hold a balance of power in a parliament hung between Tories (Conservative) amd Tory light (Labour)

A substantialy more right wing movement (Reform) have gained momentum because the electorate are pissed off with the main parties so, just maybe, a substantially more left wing movement may gain similar traction. Of course the MSM will do their best to nip it in the bud (Telegraph have already started!) but I think that their hold over opinion is starting to slip. Well, I hope so anyway :-)

Over to you...

---

There's a trick so they can be seen but have to stay closed so they don't get added to and disappear again. ---mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Aethelric
Date: 06 Jul 25 - 08:44 AM

A new party will face an uphill battle.
It would, of course, be socialist and therefore most of it’s support would come disgruntled labour supporters who are disillusioned with the current labour government. (Keir Starmer is politically around the same position as John Major).
The Labour leadership would see any new socialist party as threat, much as the SNP attack any prospective pro-independence parties. The tories would be happy at first to see the Labour vote split, but that would change if they thought the new party was a threat.
The media are all run by right wingers or “champagne socialists” and would be against it from the very beginning.
And a big threat will come from inside, rather like the current in-fighting in the Scottish Alba party.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Jul 25 - 09:00 AM

New parties in the uk historically have failed, examples Mosleys new party, Social democratic party and the gang of four

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Aethelric
Date: 06 Jul 25 - 03:49 PM

The SNP rose from nothing thanks to a dedicated and charismatic leader. But the only one we have is Farage. God help us.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Jul 25 - 05:49 PM

Dedicated And charismatic? if you mean Owen,ha ha more like Egotoistical and narcissitic

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 07 Jul 25 - 05:49 AM

The SNP rose from nothing thanks to a dedicated and charismatic leader.

.......",,,,,,,

Dedicated And charismatic? if you mean Owen .....

There seems to be some confusion between the Scottish Nationalists and the Social Democrats.


But the only one we have is Farage. God help us.

The new left-wing party being mooted would have Jeremy Corbyn, charasmatic enough some, not least among some of those posting here on Mudcat during his time as Leader of the Labour Party.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Jul 25 - 05:56 AM

you are right, Doug, my mistake

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Aethelric
Date: 08 Jul 25 - 07:17 AM

I really like Jeremy Corbyn and I think he would have made a great prime minister. But I don't think he could overcome the general right wing bias of the UK establishment, especially when they employ the dirty tricks routines. Anti-semitism for Jeremy Corbyn, sexual harassment for Alex Salmond.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jul 25 - 08:13 AM

I think you’re completely on it there, Aethelric. The Tory Dirty Tricks Brigade were responsible to a very great extent for the disaster of the 2019 GE as far as Labour was concerned. The anti-semitism/terrorist’s friend BS absolutely did for Corbyn following his poor showing in the Andrew Neill TV interview where, instead of being frank and open, he came over as defensive and stone-walling.

I do believe we have a major problem here in the UK, as well as in the US, in that we are in thrall of ‘Personality Politics’, where voters seem to make their voting decisions, not on the policies of the Parties and how likely they are to benefit us as a nation, but on which of the leaders they ‘like best’.

There was a perfect example of this phenomenon on, I think, the Kuenssberg show last Sunday, where one of eight people who voted Labour in the 2024 GE said she would vote Reform UK next time because, having watched Farage on ‘I’m a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here’, she ‘liked him’ and thought that he’s ‘on our side’, and that he’s ‘different to the Public-school-educated millionaires of the other parties’ (that, despite Farage himself being a Public-school-educated millionaire!).

I do believe that a root-and-branch overhaul of our press and media’s practices is well overdue if we are to ever get away from Personality Politics and back to a policy-driven political scene.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jul 25 - 10:31 AM

I liked Corbyn's policies and ethos but he was a weak leader and unable to cope with the right wing onslaught. I know the dirty tricks were wrong but someone stronger (Tony Benn in his day maybe?) would have turned them to his advantage.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jul 25 - 10:33 AM

BTW, I don't recall seeing mention of JC as the leader of a new party so I am not sure if we are going off on a tangent there. I have been known to be wrong though. Occasionaly :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Jul 25 - 10:55 AM

Dave:
BBC:
Guardian

Cheers

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jul 25 - 11:54 AM

”I liked Corbyn's policies and ethos but he was a weak leader and unable to cope with the right wing onslaught. I know the dirty tricks were wrong but someone stronger (Tony Benn in his day maybe?) would have turned them to his advantage.”

Completely agree, Dave. JC’s weak, defensive, stonewalling performance in the TV interview with Andrew Neil was the final nail in his, and Labour’s, coffin. Tony Benn would have made mincemeat of Neil. Very sad.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jul 25 - 12:29 PM

Thanks Nigel - Seems to confirm what I thought. The sub heading says

"Corbyn says ‘discussions are ongoing’ after MP’s surprise announcement but he is understood to be reluctant to take title of party leader"

and further into the article it confirms it with

"Corbyn, the MP for Islington North, is understood to be reluctant to take on the title of leader, as he has a preference for collective decision-making, and he believes imposing a hierarchy too soon could risk fragmenting the coalition of like-minded MPs he has spent months encouraging to work together."

I hope it does happen like that. Going back to my opening post I stated "I think that the best we can hope for is that the more socially concious factions will get together and hold a balance of power in a parliament hung between Tories (Conservative) amd Tory light (Labour)"

We can but hope :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Aethelric
Date: 08 Jul 25 - 02:46 PM

Cometh the hour, cometh the man - I hope

It sounds catchier than "Cometh the man, cometh the person"

I agree completely with you DtG about holding the balance of power. A proper leader would also be able to instil fear in the other parties. Like Farage frightened Cameron so much he took us out of Europe.

If nothing comes of this new socialist party, then the next government will probably be a Reform/Tory coalition. A complete nightmare.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Jul 25 - 07:36 PM

General polls at present (and I no longer trust polls) seem to suggest that Reform will garner the most seats, possibly even enough to be a 'majority'
GE prediction

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jul 25 - 03:20 AM

God Help the UK if that nightmare scenario comes to pass.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jul 25 - 03:20 AM

Heaven help us!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Rain Dog
Date: 09 Jul 25 - 03:35 AM

It is hard for new parties to win seats under our present outdated voting system. Our present government have a huge number of seats despite the majority of those who voted not wanting a Labour government. I don't expect the present government to do anything about the voting system. They do have a lot of other problems to deal with.

Reform are now entering an interesting stage of their development. They are now in charge of a number of councils and people will be able to judge their performance. They will find that it is not an easy task.

Farage would like to be PM but he needs a party to do that. His problem is that he is not keen on party politics. He wants to be a one man band, to be in control of everything and everyone but he has little to no interest in organising it. I don't think he shared many toys as a child.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jul 25 - 06:55 AM

”Farage would like to be PM but he needs a party to do that. His problem is that he is not keen on party politics. He wants to be a one man band, to be in control of everything and everyone but he has little to no interest in organising it. I don't think he shared many toys as a child.”

The Trump of UK politics. Be afraid, be very afraid!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jul 25 - 10:16 AM

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of an alliance of progressive thinkers to oppose the conservative (small c) thinking we are stuck with currently. People have shown that they are, in general, pissed off with current politics so they are looking to scammers and grifters like Farage and deformed UK to provide an alternative. As long as people can be shown a genuine alternative, maybe they will not be conned as easily. Big ask, I know, but I still have faith in most people :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Aethelric
Date: 09 Jul 25 - 10:31 AM

There are councils in the UK where independents have allied with a party to form an administration. My own county (Cornwall) is ran by a Lib Dem/Independent alliance.

This really upset Reform who got the highest number of seats but not a majority. The other councillors would not work with Reform.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 09 Jul 25 - 10:49 AM

Do I need to reprise my "lo! a strong man" jeremiad? it's in the current or previous Convicted Felon thread somewhere*, but applies equally here, or anywhere else the current Strong Man rises to the top of the septic tank. The Meeja's tendency to point the finger of scoff from a safe distance at anyone in the top seat Does Not Help.

* I could have sworn I put it down somewhere, but can I find it now --- ? It's official: I'm getting old.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jul 25 - 10:24 AM

Keir Starmer: Doesn't play well with others.
Doesn't play well with Conservatives,
Doesn't play well with Reform,
Doesn't even play well with his own party.

Whips being removed left, right, and centre. (or should that be 'left, left, and even further left'?)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 19 Jul 25 - 09:21 PM

Keir Starmer's govt suffers from the major problem that they were in opposition when de Pfeffel's shower were the alleged Government. The best whetstone to sharpen a party-in-opposition against is a competent party-in-power.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 03:09 AM

How much of a threat, to Starmer, is the new party led by Corbyn?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 04:33 AM

Why don’t you set the ball rolling by telling us how much of a threat you think it is, and in what way(s)?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 05:08 AM

There are a couple of things wrong with your question, Dick,

Firstly, there is no new party yet and, secondly, as and if it comes about, the leadership is not decided.

You seem to have got the question from this BBC article but if you actualy read the article you will see that there is nothing but speculation as yet

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 12:59 PM

BACKWOODSMAN Why should i set the ball rolling, perhaps I am interested in other peoples opinions before i form a definite opinion

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 01:06 PM

”BACKWOODSMAN Why should i set the ball rolling, perhaps I am interested in other peoples opinions before i form a definite opinion”

Why not?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 01:13 PM

Because I have not made my mind up yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 01:18 PM

Perhaps neither have the rest of us. Which was why I invited you to set the ball rolling.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 01:33 PM

Perhaps neither have the rest of us. QUOTE BACK WOODSMAN.
Who else do you speak for? are you a member of the reform party, who are these other people you represent

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 01:33 PM

FWIW, my opinion is the same as DtG’s - that there is insufficient firm data to enable anyone to form an opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 01:41 PM

”Who else do you speak for? are you a member of the reform party, who are these other people you represent”

I haven’t claimed to speak for or represent anyone else - I simply proposed a possible hypothesis - but thanks for confirming my suspicion that you’re just pulling your usual trolling stunts and looking for a fight. Tough shit - you’ll have to find another victim.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 02:08 PM

you used the plural word "us ". that is plural, which suggest you are representing other people as well as yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 02:56 PM

GTFU.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 03:05 PM

Majoc: "Keir Starmer's govt suffers from the major problem that they were in opposition when de Pfeffel's shower were the alleged Government. The best whetstone to sharpen a party-in-opposition against is a competent party-in-power."

So even Starmer's ineptitude is the fault of the Conservatives?
What a strange world you live in.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 04:54 PM

Starmer's ineptitude is his own fault Every body is responsible for their own actions including Backwoodsman

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Jul 25 - 04:55 AM

I don't think we can blame the Tories for Starmer's ineptitude but I do think that Johnson started to downward slide of bad leaders. Hopefully the next PM, of whatever flavour, will not be a bumbling populist that has no idea how to govern. That rules out Badenuff of course...

We had that dreadful time when the blonde buffoon's premiership coincided with the turnips first presidential term in the US. Surely that perfect storm can never happen again can it?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Jul 25 - 05:23 AM

I think Cameron started the slide downwards

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Jul 25 - 10:23 AM

Cameron failed abysmally with the Brixit fiasco but until then I don't recall him being particularly inept - It was like Blair's Iraq cock up. One mistake does not make them inept but Johnson did not get anything right and I don't think any Prime Minister since has done much better.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Jul 25 - 10:43 AM

David Cameron, the former Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, made several significant mistakes and miscalculations during his time in office (2010-2016) that had lasting impacts on British politics. Here are some of the most notable:

    The 2015 EU Referendum: Cameron's decision to hold an in-out referendum on EU membership in 2016 was intended to settle divisions within the Conservative Party and appease Eurosceptics. However, he underestimated the strength of the Leave campaign and the discontent among voters regarding the EU, which ultimately led to the Brexit vote and significant political turmoil.
    Handling of the Scottish Independence Referendum: While the 2014 referendum ultimately resulted in a vote to remain in the UK, Cameron's approach to the campaign was criticized. Many believed he did not sufficiently engage with Scottish issues or the concerns of the Scottish electorate, which fueled nationalist sentiment and led to increased calls for independence.
    Austerity Measures: Cameron's government implemented severe austerity measures following the 2008 financial crisis. While aimed at reducing the national deficit, these policies led to widespread public discontent, protests, and criticism regarding their impact on public services and social welfare. The long-term economic effects and social consequences of these measures have been debated extensively.
    Failure to Control Party Factions: Cameron struggled to manage the divisions within the Conservative Party, particularly between moderates and hardline Eurosceptics. This division became increasingly pronounced leading up to the Brexit referendum and contributed to his eventual resignation.
    The "Big Society" Initiative: Cameron's vision of the "Big Society," which aimed to empower communities and reduce the role of the state, was seen by many as vague and poorly executed. It failed to gain traction and was criticized for lacking a clear strategy or sufficient funding.
    Response to the Syrian Civil War and Refugee Crisis: Cameron faced criticism for his handling of the Syrian conflict, particularly regarding military interventions and the UK's response to the refugee crisis. His decision to intervene in Libya in 2011 also faced backlash due to the subsequent instability in the region.
    Overconfidence in Polling: Leading up to the 2015 general election, Cameron and his advisors were overly confident in their polling data, believing they could secure a majority. While they did win a majority, the confidence in polling led to complacency in campaign strategy and engagement with key voter groups.

These miscalculations and mistakes contributed to significant political challenges during and after Cameron's tenure, particularly with the rise of Brexit and the subsequent leadership changes within the Conservative Party.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Jul 25 - 10:58 AM

Yes Dick, all PMs have made mistakes but not all have been inept. And please provide the source of your C&Ps. The above is obviously not your own work.

I located a Guardian article which I think provides a good balance of views.

Sub title is "Risk-taker, pragmatist, placater – or all of the above? Six leading historians assess Cameron’s aims, achievements and failures as prime minister"

I don't think it is particulary an appeal to authority as it does give half a dozen different views

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jul 25 - 06:08 PM

I am not a big a fan of Angela Rayner, other than I think she is more left than the rest of Starmer's crew and she supported my choice (Rebecca Long-Bailey) in the leaderhip election. But I am looking forward to seeing her in action against James (not so) Cleverly. I suspect mincemeat will be made and Badenuff will soon regret her choice.

Just my opinion of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Jul 25 - 02:58 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jul/22/completely-unprecedented-wes-streeting-resident-doctors-strike?utm_source=firefo
link to Guardian article about Doctors and strike

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jul 25 - 11:52 AM

John Crace of the Guardian made me laugh because I had not heard not so Cleverly bing referred to as Sir Jim Dim before :-)

Seems to support my previous thoughts anyway

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Jul 25 - 09:05 AM

Corbyn confirms new party
per BBC news

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jul 25 - 03:29 AM

They are asking for suggestions for a name

Party McPartyface anyone? :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jul 25 - 05:18 AM

FFS Dave, don’t - there are people out there daft enough to go for that…!! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 25 Jul 25 - 08:03 AM

I could probably think of a few but I value my membership - to this forum, I mean :)

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Jul 25 - 12:07 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman - PM
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 03:09 AM

How much of a threat, to Starmer, is the new party led by Corbyn?
I think they are likely to win a number of seats enough to prevent Labour be in government

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 25 Jul 25 - 12:47 PM

I think they are likely to win a number of seats enough to prevent Labour be in government

I suspect that any seats that Labour might lose to Corbyn's new party would be more than outweighed by seats lost by the Conservatives to Reform. If Labour lose the next election, it will have more to do with their lacklustre performance this time round.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Jul 25 - 04:44 PM

you would know

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jul 25 - 05:14 PM

”I suspect that any seats that Labour might lose to Corbyn's new party would be more than outweighed by seats lost by the Conservatives to Reform.”

You have a very good point there, Doug. If the new Party grow into a substantial, credible organisation (and I see no reason why they shouldn’t), the next GE could be very interesting indeed!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jul 25 - 06:34 PM

Bear in mind that the "new party" seems likely to be an alliance of small progressive factions and, as I said earlier, that should be welcomed. However the fact that the media are already lining it up to fail by calling it Corbyn's party is not a good thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Jul 25 - 02:10 AM

The media support establishment politics, not radical politicians

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 26 Jul 25 - 02:48 AM

you would know

No, Sandman, I don't know. That is why I said "I suspect ...." and "If Labour lose ....".

I stand by my comment that the Labour government's performance to date, under Starmer, has been lacklustre.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Jul 25 - 04:21 AM

Yes, I agree.
Doug Chadwick suspects, excellent

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Jul 25 - 02:19 PM

”I suspect that any seats that Labour might lose to Corbyn's new party would be more than outweighed by seats lost by the Conservatives to Reform.”
(Doug Chadwick)

You have a very good point there, Doug. If the new Party grow into a substantial, credible organisation (and I see no reason why they shouldn’t), the next GE could be very interesting indeed!
Backwoodsman

And that's before counting in the seats that Labour could lose to Reform! (or those the Conservatives could lose . . .)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jul 25 - 02:55 AM

link from council estate media about growth of new party corbyn and sultana
https://www.facebook.com/CouncilEstateMedia

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jul 25 - 05:19 AM

Could be interesting if a right wing mob and a left wing mob both become popular. Things have swung to the right becuase both major parties have altered their policies in line with the populism of deform UK. Will the new alliance cause a swing back to the left? Sadly, Fartarse has a start on whoever leads the new lot and the tosspots who own the press are only interested in keeping their fortunes intact so they love the chaos that he causes.

Of course we will not be able to tell until there have been a few local elections and the real test will be the next GE. I cannot see any minority party, however popular, getting enough support to form a government in 4 years time.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Jul 25 - 06:09 AM

Dave: Of course we will not be able to tell until there have been a few local elections and the real test will be the next GE. I cannot see any minority party, however popular, getting enough support to form a government in 4 years time.

Of course, the Welsh Senedd elections next year could provide an earlier test. Labour have led the Senedd since its inception in 1999.
If that ceases to be the case it will be a major upset, and could be a guide to what will happen in UK a few years later.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jul 25 - 07:01 AM

Ooooh - Didn't know that. Thanks Nigel

I'll order some popcorn :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Jul 25 - 11:47 AM

7 May 2026, Same day for Scottish Parliament elections, and some English local elections delayed from 2025 (reasons for the delays are subject to debate)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Aug 25 - 01:33 AM

There are many people who want to see a redistribution of wealth,they are apprantly joining the new party in droves

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Aug 25 - 12:05 PM

I hope that the new movement pulls politics in general back towards the centre. We have been swinging far too much to the right over the last few years and we need pulling back. I don't see a severe swing to the left happening and I do not think it would be good if that did happen. History has proven that extremes do not work. Cooperation and compromise between all parties seems a good idea with responsible capitalism, workers rights and social justice being high on the agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 03 Aug 25 - 03:18 PM

I've said it here before, I don't vote and have no intention of doing. It's been brought about by politicians saying one thing and doing another, bringing about a lack of trust.

If I were to vote, I'd want to know what I was voting FOR.

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Aug 25 - 04:31 PM

Dave,apparently 600 thousand have joined the new party, PRESUMABLY they think the Labour government is too right wing, not too left wing

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Rain Dog
Date: 04 Aug 25 - 02:38 AM

They have not joined the party, they have signed up for future updates. It is an impressive number though.

The following article is worth a read

How significant is Corbyn and Sultana’s 600,000 sign ups to their new party?

Who remembers Enough is Enough?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Aug 25 - 10:19 AM

I'm pretty sure that is part of what I said, Dick

I hope that the new movement pulls politics in general back towards the centre. We have been swinging far too much to the right over the last few years and we need pulling back.

And I would repeat that it is not a new party but rather an alliance of other progresive, as opposed to conservative (small c), factions within government. Corbyn has also said that it will be led by the members rather than from the top so I am not sure if 'Corbyn's party' will ever be the correct term. I must say that I like the idea of an alliance against the stodge that mainstream politics has become. I would like to see it work but only time will tell.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Aug 25 - 10:22 AM

Fred - Yes, I can see where you are coming from but please don't give up on voting. Use it or lose it as they say :-) If you cannot vote for someone vote against them. There are usualy some candidates at most elections that can rattle the bars of the big boys. If that fails - go and spoil your vote by writing what you have just said across it. Spoiled votes have to be read and counted.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 04 Aug 25 - 10:37 AM

Good point, Dave, and well worth considering :)

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Aug 25 - 03:15 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3dpkvkkjjno link to BBC About labour selling off allotments

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Aug 25 - 05:14 AM

Our local council (swings between Tory and Liberal control) has sold off most of our local allotments. In fairness to the council, they were mostly un-let, un-tended, and overgrown, neglected wildernesses. Now, at least they are being used, although not for growing food.

Allotment-keeping, over the past thirty years or so, seems very much to have fallen from favour in this area.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 06 Aug 25 - 06:05 AM

Allotment-wise, it's the same here in Colsterworth.

We had two allotment sites, one at the southern edge and another at the northern. But nature has claimed them back.

I'll say that people lost interest but my dad would've said "They see it as being too much like hard work, lad".

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Aug 25 - 06:53 AM

Allotment ownership and usage still going strong here in Airedale

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Aug 25 - 12:21 PM

Good to hear Dave. I have very fond memories of going with my grandad to his allotment (or ‘up garden’ as he referred to it) and ‘helping’ him. I use the term ‘helping’ very loosely - I doubt he felt he was being helped, but he was very patient with his little grandson! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 06 Aug 25 - 02:17 PM

My childhood allotment memories were altogether different.

I was 6 years old, and dug up veg in an allotment. Taking it to a door, I asked "Buy some vegetables, mister?" "Arr boy, they look good 'uns!"

It soon came to light that the man had bought his own veg for half a crown!

I had to give the money back and was given the slipper by my mum.

The good old days!

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Aug 25 - 03:26 AM

We don't have an equivalent of the ICE thugs. Yet. We don't need them when over 500 people can be arrested at a peaceful demo for simply wearing the wrong t-shirts or waving the wrong banner.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Aug 25 - 04:26 AM

I agree with above post

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Aethelric
Date: 12 Aug 25 - 07:42 AM

DtG and Sandman

The Thought Police will be knocking at your door!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Aug 25 - 10:07 AM

perish the thought

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Aug 25 - 01:56 PM

Protests in the Cotswolds, against J D Vance holidaying in the area, anyone know any more

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 15 Aug 25 - 09:15 AM

> Protests in the Cotswolds, against J D Vance holidaying
> in the area

So *that*'s where the Groom of the Stool got to. We'd attend, but we're fresh out of rotten eggs.

.... No whiff or whisper on the news of said protests, says Herself. Surprise.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Aug 25 - 06:43 PM

I read about him being banned from a pub following protests by staff and customers but it's late and I am not looking it up now.

Google it yourselves!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Aug 25 - 02:28 AM

is it possible to discuss, the subject i a polite manner

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Aug 25 - 03:54 AM

Is it possible to discuss the subject in a manner that uses the correct English grammar, spellings, capitalisation and punctuation?

:-D

It's morning now and I can look up the pub story. It was reported by some daily rags but Snopes have concluded that it is just rumour. Be nice if it was true anyway :-)

Did 'staff mutiny' force Cotswolds pub to turn away JD Vance?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Aug 25 - 06:10 AM

”Is it possible to discuss the subject in a manner that uses the correct English grammar, spellings, capitalisation and punctuation?”

Errrrmm, some of us do, Dave!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Aug 25 - 06:45 AM

Is it possible to discuss the subject in a manner that uses the correct English grammar, spelling, capitalization and punctuation? "quote, Gnome.
Gnome,The word "spelling" can be singular or plural, depending on the context. Generally, "spelling" is used as a singular noun referring to the act of forming words correctly.
pot calling the kettle black.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Aug 25 - 06:49 AM

Gnomes actual quote,
Is it possible to discuss the subject in a manner that uses the correct English grammar, spellings, capitalization and punctuation?
The word "spelling" can be singular or plural, depending on the context. Generally, "spelling" is used as a singular noun referring to the act of forming words correctly.
spelling not spellings and since we are on a forum used by Americans capitaliZation

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Aug 25 - 09:21 AM

A Google search produced the following explanation…

”The plural of "spelling" can be either "spelling" or "spellings", depending on the context. When referring to the general concept or a single instance of spelling, the plural is "spelling." When referring to multiple different types or instances of spelling, "spellings" is the appropriate plural form according to WordHippo and Preply.”

I read Dave’s comment as referring to ‘multiple different types or instances of spelling’, and I therefore see no problem with his use of ‘spellings’.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Aug 25 - 12:14 PM

BWM - Did you see the comment that inspired my post?

is it possible to discuss, the subject i a polite manner

If not, you can have one guess who posted it :-D

Dick

One spelling
Multiple spellings

Seemples.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Aug 25 - 12:35 PM

I did, Dave - hence my two later comments in response to Sandman’s responses which are, quite simply, wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Aug 25 - 12:39 PM

Talking of the original comment, what was it in reference to?

Anything to do with UK politics?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Aug 25 - 12:57 PM

I haven’t a clue what it was about Dave! Maybe it’s on the wrong thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Aethelric
Date: 18 Aug 25 - 12:45 PM

I wonder if Starmer or any of the European leaders will show a bit of backbone when they meet Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Aug 25 - 01:36 PM

Doubtful.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 18 Aug 25 - 02:12 PM

Well I don't see why they should, they've never shown any before lol.

Sorry, couldn't resist ;)

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 18 Aug 25 - 02:51 PM

Would not should, damn predictive text!

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Aug 25 - 08:10 AM

Its not over till the fat person pontificates.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Aug 25 - 09:20 AM

An interesting FB Reel, I believe expressing perfectly the view of the silent majority of UK-ers, those who don’t have any intention of voting for the Reform UK fascists, those who don’t shag flags, those who don’t allow themselves to be triggered by Rage-Bait SM threads…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Aug 25 - 12:57 PM

Yvette Cooper seeks to overturn/end the ruling about the Bell Hotel.

Does this give us a new definition for 'Bell-end'?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Aug 25 - 03:18 PM

LOL Nigel!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Sep 25 - 05:35 AM

I find the display of patriotic flags silly.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Sep 25 - 03:56 PM

I am pissed off about the possible abolition of paper tickets on trains, so we are all expected to buy expensive mobile phones and put apps on them, what about old people and poor people who cannot afford expensive mobiles.
In Ireland old people travel on all public transport for free.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 04 Sep 25 - 12:17 PM

Hear hear, Sandman. My immediate reaction on reading about this was: "Thus, one misstep at a time, we become acclimatised to the Surveillance State."

We've refused, multiple times, to have (*akkh* *phht*) smart meters installed for gas and electricity. When we found recently that our water meter was broken (I'll save the balance of that saga for later), I was annoyed that the replacment was allegedly smart; then highly amused to hear that they couldn't read it remotely because it uses a Vodaphone cellphone chip, and Vodaphone don't have any masts round here.

Must go .... champagne being opened.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 02:30 AM

Dorries defects to Reform. just Anther self seeking career politician let s hope she disappears in to a political black hole

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 07:05 AM

"Dorries defects to Reform. just Anther self seeking career politician let's hope she disappears in to a political black hole"

If we're discussing self-serving (or even 'self-seeking') career politicians, is it time to mention Angela Rayner?

Or is this thread only for bashing the right?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 07:25 AM

*Breaking News* Within 10 minutes of posting I hear on the midday news that she's resigned. That must be the power of the Mudcat ;)

BBC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 07:31 AM

From The Telegraph (online):

In his letter to the Prime Minister, Sir Laurie Magnus, the independent adviser on ministerial interests, said: “It is highly unfortunate [...] that Ms Rayner failed to pay the correct rate of SDLT on this purchase, particularly given her status and responsibilities as the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government and as Deputy Prime Minister.

“She believed that she relied on the legal advice she had received, but unfortunately did not heed the caution contained within it, which acknowledged that it did not constitute expert tax advice and which suggested that expert advice be sought.”

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 07:54 AM

But she has had the decency and strength of character to resign, Nigel - unlike numerous ministers over the past fourteen years of Tory mis-rule who, when caught with their metaphorical trousers down, hung on until parliamentary and media pressure forced their PM to sack them.

And all for £40,000 - what about the billions handed by the Tories to their backers, friends, pub landlords, and fellow Tories, in fake PPE ‘contracts’ during the Covid pandemic?

Words like ‘glasshouses’ and ‘stones’ spring very readily to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 08:08 AM

I think she was wrong to not pay the duty in full. I susoect it was due to bad advice but, in her position, she should have checked so I think it is right that she has resigned.

The hypocricy of the media is astounding though. Where was the outrage when Boris was decorating his flat or when Rishi Sunak shielded his wife's non-dom tax status?

Has it always been this bad? I am sure that politicians were not as sleazey in the past but maybe I am looking through rose coloured specs!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 08:59 AM

”Or is this thread only for bashing the right?”

Well, Nigel, over the past 14 years of Tory mis-rule, they’ve made themselves such easy targets, haven’t they? And Kemi Badenough is doing her best (or perhaps I mean worst?) to keep up the tradition… ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Rain Dog
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 09:15 AM

”Or is this thread only for bashing the right?”

Good question. In the past it would seem that posters have driven away those who might have a different view from themselves. BUT we should always remember that it is only a handful of people who do post here anyway.

The Rayner resignation is likely to cause further turmoil within the Labour party when tbey should be concentrating on running the country. Sad but true.

In this day and age all politicians,regardless of party, have to appear whiter than white. Not an easy task. Makes me wonder why anyone would take on the job.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 09:54 AM

rayner is right wing so is starmer they are establishment stooges, starmer the man who wanted to get rid of pensioners so they died of hypothermia, a right winger pretending to be a member of what was once a socialist party, he is no more left wing than sir alec douglas home

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 10:47 AM

From Attila the Stockbroker on Facebook

"Angela Rayner's resigned. Yes, she appears to have made a serious error of judgement. Yes, she's deputy prime minister in what is in my opinion the most disappointing Labour government in my lifetime.

But her hounding by a right wing press whose billionaire owners dodge ludicrous amounts of tax as a matter of course and ignore far more reprehensible financial activities pursued by people whose politics they promote is hypocritical and disgusting. Just today, it has been revealed that Farage uses a private company to pay less tax on his media earnings.

All decency, all intelligence, all compassion have been leeched from British politics. We're a banana republic with a king. Rayner, to me, is basically a woman with a good heart who wants to do her best for people from the same background she rose from - and has had the misfortune to try and do that at the very worst period in modern political history.

The ultimate irony of our age is that many of the people who cheer her downfall the loudest will be people living in a similar situation to where she began, sneering at someone who was once one of their own while cheering the tax-avoiding, Barbour-wearing, billionaire-backed Farage.

I did my best to win them over for a long time, but I have walked away from such people now."

Best summary I have seen

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Rain Dog
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 11:22 AM

Whereas back in the real world, Farage does not appear to be doing anything illegal. I personally think the tax laws in the UK need to be drastically revised & simplified. We might ask ourselves why successive governments, of both parties, refuse to do this.

Rayner had to resign as Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government. She probably could have kept on as Deputy Prime Minister. It would have avoided the needless internal party politics. The majority of people do not belong to any party and have little interest in internal bickering.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 11:24 AM

BWM:
"But she has had the decency and strength of character to resign, Nigel - unlike numerous ministers over the past fourteen years of Tory mis-rule who, when caught with their metaphorical trousers down, hung on until parliamentary and media pressure forced their PM to sack them."

She has had plenty of time to resign since this whole affair first came to light. She delayed that until it had come to the point, with the report by Sir Laurie Magnus in, she had to resign, or be sacked. If you believe that that is a measure of her 'decency and strength of character' then we are clearly using different languages.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 11:50 AM

Nigel:

She referred herself to Sir Laurie Magnus, the Prime Minister's independent adviser on ministerial interests, for investigation, and awaited his decision on whether she had broken the ministerial code. When his decision confirmed that she had, she resigned without further delay.

That seems perfectly reasonable, honest, and decent AFAIC. If it seems otherwise to you, I find that very strange indeed, coming from a supporter of a Party with such an appalling record of dishonesty over its past 14 years in government. ‘One rule for you, a different rule for us’ seems to be one of the strongest principles of the Tories and their supporters.

Indeed we do appear to use different languages, and we seem to have different standards where judgment of parliamentary behaviour is concerned, thank goodness.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 01:30 PM

The One True Standard Way To Resign: Deny everything, hang on by fingernails to current post, and wait for the Prime Minister to utter the keyphrase "full and unconditional backing". Wait a fortnight more for the baying in the tabloids to become deafening, and *then* decide to spend more time with directorships spouse and children.

That's been the tradition since the days of Maggie Hatchett. Why change it? Has someone mislaid the pearl-handled revolver that used to get mentioned on such occasions?

As an aside, the baying in the Meeja has fully lived down to my expectations of them, and then some. No new depth unplumbed, an' all that.

PS: Extra points, backwoodsman, for proving that it's not just me that remembers "thirteen years of Tory misrule".

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 01:36 PM

And I noticed you studiously avoided commenting on your own Party’s members’ errrrmmm…’indiscretions’…Nigel. Here are just a few to remind you…

Jeremy Hunt - ‘forgot’ seven flats he owned
Geoffrey Cox ‘forgot’ to declare £400,000
Ian Duncan Smith ‘forgot’ a company paid him £25,000
Theresa Villiers ‘forgot’ she owned £70,000 of Shell shares
Zahawi ‘forgot’ to pay £4.8 million in taxes

And that’s without mentioning Michelle Mone’s 12 million contract for non-existent PPE, or Matt Hancock handing a contract to his local pub landlord for non-existent PPE, or any of the other fake contracts handed out by Tory ministers to their friends and benefactors.

So I’m not about to take any lessons from a Tory-supporter getting all ‘holier-than-thou’ and finger-pointey about Angela Rayner.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 01:37 PM

@MaJoC the Filk - my last post was for Nigel, not you of course!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 05 Sep 25 - 04:16 PM

No problems, BWM. It permits me to expand on something (here's one I misdrafted earlier), while Herself watches Angela Rayner's Wake And Autopsy Show on BBC News 24:

All summer, we've had ManFrog's and Agent Orange's one-downmanship ploys dominating the news cycle in Air Strip One; now the Meeja is suddenly fixated on poor Angela, to the exclusion of Outrage of the Week from Washington, and even the atrocities in Gaza. Curious: anyone would think it was all carefully timed to throw gravel into the Downing Street gearbox, right at the beginning of a difficult Parliamentary session. But then I'm forgetting the Pavlovian tendencies of headline writers: "Hold the front page! a Labour politician farted before the Queen!"*

.... I'd best leave it there awhile.

* "I'm sorry, Your Majesty: I didn't know it was your turn."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Sep 25 - 02:03 AM

What has been going on in Epping

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Sep 25 - 02:21 AM

It looks like the far right are stirring up the riots, a bit more important than Rayner, particularly since she has resigned.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Sep 25 - 04:03 PM

BWM:
She referred herself to Sir Laurie Magnus, the Prime Minister's independent adviser on ministerial interests

Only after days of Conservatives insisting that she should be referred.
She 'referred herself' only once it was clear to her that she had no other option, and knowing that the findings would be against her.

That was hardly a noble option.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Sep 25 - 04:40 PM

Still no comment about the examples of ‘forgetfulness’ from your mob, Nigel? I repeat, ‘glasshouses’ and ‘stones’. What a strange set of double-standards you Tories seem to live by.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Sep 25 - 05:22 PM

surely it is irrelevant what party they belong to, all politicians, who behave in a financially dishonest manner   should resign.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Sep 25 - 11:25 PM

That’s my point.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Sep 25 - 09:32 AM

mean while in France

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Sep 25 - 09:37 AM

What's that got to do with Brexit and other UK politics?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Sep 25 - 02:11 PM

Still no comment about the examples of ‘forgetfulness’ from your mob, Nigel? I repeat, ‘glasshouses’ and ‘stones’. What a strange set of double-standards you Tories seem to live by.

I was discussing current news. Both major parties (and most of the minors) have similar histories.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Sep 25 - 02:30 PM

Well, there's dihonesty and there's dishonesty. On one hand there's getting your taxes wrong and paying the price later, and on the other hand there is spending a fortune on tax lawyers to find ways of legally reducing tax liabilities depriving public services.    I know which is the greater wrong in my book, especially where the most wealthy have the means to buy their way out of taxation.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Sep 25 - 02:47 PM

Well, there's dihonesty and there's dishonesty. On one hand there's getting your taxes wrong and paying the price later, and on the other hand there is spending a fortune on tax lawyers to find ways of legally reducing tax liabilities depriving public services.    I know which is the greater wrong in my book, especially where the most wealthy have the means to buy their way out of taxation. (My bold/italics)

And no, I'm not rich, and I used to work for HMRC, so I know a lot about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Sep 25 - 04:01 PM

A Tory and a tax-man! No possibility of redemption - straight to Hell! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Sep 25 - 05:02 PM

The wealthy CAN buy their way out of anything look at Prince Andrew.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Sep 25 - 05:31 PM

If you worked for HMRC then you should be able to discern between the spirit (and purpose) and the letter of the law, and why we have taxes.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Sep 25 - 09:40 PM

SPB: If you worked for HMRC then you should be able to discern between the spirit (and purpose) and the letter of the law, and why we have taxes.

Yes, I can discern between the two. Breaking the 'spirit' of the law is not, necessarily, illegal. Breaking the legal definitions of the law is.

I hope that you understand the distinction.