BS: Thought for the Day -- Aug 18

Subject: BS: Thought for the Day -- Aug 18
From: Peter T.
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 07:50 AM

The Middle Way of the Buddha derives from his experience of extreme asceticism on the one hand (he nearly died of it) and extreme indulgence on the other hand  (the dreary princely life). Aristotle promotes the mese hodos, a pragmatic middle way;  Horace nails it down: auream quisquis mediocritam diligit -- choose the golden mean (interesting how mediocritam drifted over time).  But Rumi in his Masnavi -- which I have just been reading -- blows this whole thing up.  He points out that "a mean is between finites, " that is, to find the middle point of a line, you need to be able to have both ends defined first.  But in life,  we have a Beginning about which no one knows anything, and an End about which no one knows anything.  Where is the middle to that? 
 
It can be made even worse in mystical geometry  -- if such a thing is possible --  because the way you bisect a line is to get a pair of compasses,  and using each end point as the centre, draw a circumference of a circle that intersects the other circle's circumference, and from that intersection point, which hovers above the line, you drop a perpendicular to the original line, thus defining the middle.  Sort of like creating a spiritual helicopter with a dangling line.  But we can neither know the beginning, nor the end, so as to get this neat little diagramming underway; and therefore,  alas,  we cannot locate where the spiritual helicopter of God waits, hovering,  buzzing overhead at the intersection point of our lives, ready to lift us off in a cloud of golden dust to eternal safety.    

Subject: RE: BS: Thought for the Day -- Aug 18
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 08:24 AM

You need the two opposite extremes if you're looking for the golden median. A 'mean' is an average. Presumably, you'd have multiple examples of people living their lives and having tendencies in either direction. A median requires two extremes. A mean only requires a sufficient number of examples.

Simple, but pedantic. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Thought for the Day -- Aug 18
From: Paul Burke
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 08:59 AM

There are three kinds of average: the Mede, the moan and the modicum. As for the eight fold path, it just can't be done, you can't fold it more than 6 times.

Subject: RE: BS: Thought for the Day -- Aug 18
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 09:26 AM

Epicurus: "Nothing to extreme." He even advised against sex for its tendency towards extreme pleasure.

I have grown to love the extreme ups and downs of life and recommend them heartily to all. Better to live in interesting times than be bored to tears.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: Thought for the Day -- Aug 18
From: Amos
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 09:47 AM

The central issue is to outgrow resistance and desire.

This may sound boring, but, as I understand it, these are replaced by delight.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Thought for the Day -- Aug 18
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 10:45 AM

I think his reasoning is quite flawed. He says that because we know nothing about our beginning and our end, that means we can't know where the middle ground is in how we go about living our lives. That's apples and oranges.

The nature of existence prior to birth and after death is about non-physical existence. To determine where the middle ground is in the way we live our physical lives, we only need to know where the extremes are in the way it would be possible for us to live our physical lives. The extremes of excess of sense gratification, for instance, as opposed to asceticism, or the extremes of excess of power versus powerlessness, etc.

Those are the extreme points that can be used to make the diagram. Whether or not there is any benefit to making such a diagram and living by it is another matter that isn't addressed in his theory.

Subject: RE: BS: Thought for the Day -- Aug 18
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 10:53 AM

Auntie Em Auntie Em , its a gold dust twister!

Subject: RE: BS: Thought for the Day -- Aug 18
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 11:22 AM

The only thing in the middle of the road are flat Armadillos.

but seriously, We can make up all sorts of rules and there may very well be an exception to every rule we do make up.

For examp;e there is in all likelyhood a probablility that there is a "guy" who does know more about the begining than you or "he" is willing to believe.


Its not really about a geometric or actual middle...
Overall the middle way (in between ice and boiling water) has an evolutionary comfort level built in.
Everthing necessary to survival (be it a pee or an orgasm) has pleasure or ectasy built in.

Moderating that pleasure is what many ancient texts try to explain.

Subject: RE: BS: Thought for the Day -- Aug 18
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 11:31 AM

edit

Overall the middle way (in between ice and boiling water) has an evolutionary comfort level built in.

Everything necessary to survival (be it a pee or an orgasm) has pleasure or ectasy built in.

Moderating that pleasure is what many ancient texts try to explain.

Somehow pleasure has been made evil by most religions. Most of them go overboard. But considering that 3 to 5 thousand years ago most of us were an "ass hair away from being baboons", maybe the teachings were appropriate for the times.



Remember you "you might be a Redneck if"? well...

You might be a Puritan if you suspect someone somewhere is having fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Thought for the Day -- Aug 18
From: lady penelope
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 12:16 PM

I think the examples that religion and belief systems such as Budhism give us, should lead us all to the conclusion that we firstly need to think for ourselves and secondly, shouldn't really take ourselves too seriously all the time....

*G*

Subject: RE: BS: Thought for the Day -- Aug 18
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 12:21 PM

I got the second part down don't you think?


Carlin is master of the first part.

Subject: RE: BS: Thought for the Day -- Aug 18
From: John O'L
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 03:21 AM

What Carol C said.

The satatement is an example of itself. It goes to extremes of theoretical logic when all that is requred is a little common sense. Moderation in all things, grasshopper.

Subject: RE: BS: Thought for the Day -- Aug 18
From: Micca
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 06:55 AM

Moderation be blowed, Take BIG bites to get the flavour, to appreciate the middle way you have to have experienced the highs and the lows and there is NO substitute for personal experience, we only ever(and certainly hardly ever even do that)learn from our own experience
"Moderation in all things", Especially Moderation,

Subject: RE: BS: Thought for the Day -- Aug 18
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 08:01 AM

"...alas, we cannot locate where the spiritual helicopter of God waits, hovering, buzzing overhead at the intersection point of our lives, ready to lift us off in a cloud of golden dust to eternal safety..."


We're not supposed to.

There is no middle, there is no end...

There is only ever 'The Beginning'