The Music of Hate -VH1 Tonight

Subject: The Music of Hate -VH1 Tonight
From: Mickey191
Date: 18 Feb 02 - 07:26 PM

Tonight at 9:00pm (EST) on VH1 there will be a program about how rock music is being used as a tool to spread racial hatred. It sounds interesting and enligtening. Is this too touchy a subject?

Subject: RE: The Music of Hate -VH1 Tonight
From: michaelr
Date: 18 Feb 02 - 07:31 PM

No... I'll check it out. Sounds like someone has an agenda...
Michael

Subject: RE: The Music of Hate -VH1 Tonight
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Feb 02 - 08:02 PM

Thanks for the heads-up, Mickey. There are those of us who are always interested in knowing about musical programs, even controversial ones.:-)

kat

Subject: RE: The Music of Hate -VH1 Tonight
From: 53
Date: 18 Feb 02 - 09:20 PM

VH-1 has great programs, you just got to have a mind and a love for the music.

Subject: RE: The Music of Hate -VH1 Tonight
From: Mickey191
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 12:10 AM

It was totally scary! The worst part, of course, were the 2 little girls spewing The Line of hatred. They supposedly have tripled membership in the last 2 yrs.One thing IS clear-dentists will go out of business, and tatoo parlors will flourish. Nother thing, they will all be deaf by the age of 40. I'm not even going to comment on the music.It is hard (for me) to understand such hatred. They are nothing people who must look down on something - to justify their existence.

Subject: RE: The Music of Hate -VH1 Tonight
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 01:14 AM

This goes along with the thread I posted a couple of days ago about some of the Aryan Nation establishing a new base in rural Pennsylvania.

I am glad they interviewed some of the one's who've left the movement, esp. Burdie. A few years ago I saw a docu. on him when he was still spreading hatred. Nice to see he is apparently trying to make a more positive difference.

I noticed that the creep who owns Resistance Records and wrote the book which McVeigh used as his blueprint for OK City, said they'd move into all genres of music to get their message out to young people, including folk.

I agree with some of the former members who said we cannot meet them with hatred; there has to be some way to communicate and solve that which drives their obvious fear which is the basis for all hatred and a myriad of other negative emotions and actions.

I agree, Mickey, it was chilling to see those young twin girls singing such hatred. Equally chilling to see so many CD's being sold and the websites with people from around the world supporting them.

Thanks, again, for letting us know this was on.

Subject: RE: The Music of Hate -VH1 Tonight
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 07:23 AM

I watched it, and felt it was pretty heavy on sensationalism, pretty low on fact.

I'll stick with the information at the Southern Poverty Law Center's website until someone does a serious documentary on it, rather than a VH1 "documentary" on it.

Subject: RE: The Music of Hate -VH1 Tonight
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 08:33 AM

Oops! I meant to say SPLC & Anti-Defamation League's websites. The latter has very extensive information on the hatecore punk movement.

One of the reasons I thought this was such a lightweight program is because it really didn't focus on anything or anyone beyond Resistance Records, it didn't give any history of the punk and skinhead movements, that sort of thing.

Made me wish Frontline had done the job.

Subject: RE: The Music of Hate -VH1 Tonight
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 03:22 PM

They didn't promo them together, but I happened to watch the show just before which was on the music of 1977. It covered a lot, for about a 20 minute show, on the Sex Pistols, the Clash and some others of the punk movement and was quite interesting. Maybe from having watched it, I didn't think the latter show did a bad job of leading from punk, to skinhead, to white power.

I am glad they focussed on Resistance records because it seems to be way too successful. Also, I thought they did a good job of leading into how it came into being. I noticed they also made mention of the SPLC, which I totally support.

In the information we've received from SPLC and other national groups which track this kind of stuff, our human rights org. has been aware of this for some time. Based on what I already knew through our education programs, etc. I felt this was a good, valuable intro piece to reach a very wide audience. It would have been better if they'd included some advice on what people could do, as individuals, to repel such negativism, at least with references to orgs. which they could join, etc. Perhaps that is included on VH1's website.

kat

Subject: RE: The Music of Hate -VH1 Tonight
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 09:36 AM

I found the style of the edgy editing and ominous sounding background music to be annoying in the extreme. But then, it appears that the piece was dumbed down for it's target audience, which is MTV. Which begs the question, why was it shown on VH1 to begin with? The target audience of VH1 are the parents of the kids who are at risk for moving into the hatecore scene.

No--too much of this just wasn't right for me to recommend it to anyone, and I have a daughter currently involved in the straight edge punk scene. It didn't tell kids any of the things they need to know to stay away from the hatecore scene. If anything, it made it look seductive, in my opinion--"oh look how this will piss off mom and dad!" Style won out over substance once again. Too bad--they wasted a good opportunity (and probably some decent funding) with this particular film, and the audience they went with (ie adults, rather than the kids themselves).

Subject: RE: The Music of Hate -VH1 Tonight
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 10:40 AM

Well, the music they were talkng about was ominous. What else were they to use? It carried a message of hatred, death, destruction, despair, etc. I thought the way they used the music, with the lyrics printed on the screen was well done. Some of it may have seemed sensational to one just becuase it was so shocking.

If you would not recommend it as one of many good teaching tools, what would you use instead?

Subject: RE: The Music of Hate -VH1 Tonight
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 10:52 AM

There is a lot of punk music that isn't hatecore that carries a message of hatred, death, destruction and despair. I wasn't the least bit shocked by the lyrics--it was a program about neo-Nazi musicians, so what were we to expect? Just what we saw!

What I would use in it's place is a legitimate documentary, not a "Behind the Music" format. It would include lots of interviews with the kids involved in the scene. Their tales of how they came to be involved in it. And interviews with kids who got out of it. As it was, this program had very little from kids themselves, and so came off very preachy, IMO. Which didn't surprise me, considering who produced the film--the organization (whose name I currently forget), is a faith based Christian organization which seems pretty opposed to punk music of any sort. Which means the kids who are into punk won't give the program much credence. It just wasn't credible, because it didn't talk to any of them, just preached down to them (I watched it with my daughter, who does know the history of the punk movement pretty well).

I would have included the history of punk, ska, heavy metal, and how the skinheads are the thread that runs through them all. I would talk about how difficult it is for newcomers and outsiders to distinguish between the punk genres in particular, which has both anti-racist and racist skinhead elements, both of whom look and sound very much the same, except for the lyrics which usually can't be easily understood when performed (which is why we needed the subtitles--we'd never have heard the lyric if it hadn't been provided).

Then, I would have put the film on a channel where it could have reached the audience of kids who need to learn about it, rather than on a channel where it will just alarm parents, and make the establishment types wring their hands and pass legislation that discriminates against teenagers.

As you might guess kat, I'm pretty opinionated about the subject!

Subject: RE: The Music of Hate -VH1 Tonight
From: GUEST,open mike
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 12:39 PM

i happened to see it too- scary stuff-esp. the young twins. I saw a booth at the high sierra music fest from a group-musicians against hate or smething like that with a pamphlet from a former hate- monger turned to love-monger!! that is the best new yet--but so hard to turn the tide of such a strong and angry force..mass de-programming needed!! retalliate with songs of LOVE!!

Subject: RE: The Music of Hate -VH1 Tonight
From: Amergin
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 02:27 PM

It was on again last night....and I agree with many of the points here...I would like to see a full documentary on the subject, and one that was delving a bit deep...not just skimming the surface...

Open Mike....I was thinking of those two little girls myself....the sad thing is...they have no real idea what they are preaching in their songs...