BS: Academic independence in Soviet America

Subject: BS: Academic independence in Soviet America
From: Paul Burke
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 04:12 AM

You've got your Lysenko.

Subject: RE: BS: Academic independence in Soviet America
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 07:49 AM

Horse Puckey!

And I sincerely pray you are not an American. You don't deserve to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Academic independence in Soviet America
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 03:49 PM

Such eloquence. DougR, is that you?

Subject: RE: BS: Academic independence in Soviet America
From: Amos
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 10:50 AM

The effort to subordinate scientific research to political whimsey is indeed horse puckey. The notion that the Senators involved are even capable of understanding the analyses involved is questionable, and even if they could it is beyond all reason to demand raw materials of this scope, on a meretricious claim of this sort. This is really dirty, divisive, disgusting politics, IMHO.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Academic independence in Soviet America
From: mack/misophist
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 10:52 AM

Paul Burke is incorrect. Lysenko was a misguided scientist. It happens. Joe Barton is an elected vigilante. It happens.

Subject: RE: BS: Academic independence in Soviet America
From: Paul Burke
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 11:01 AM

" Lysenko was a misguided scientist"- He was indeed.

It's not his misguided science that was the problem, but his control of what could and could not be studied in the Soviet Union, and his use of his power to silence those who disagreed with him. When they finally got rid of him, Soviet agricultural and biological sciences were 30 years behind.

Subject: RE: BS: Academic independence in Soviet America
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:01 PM

Absolutely nothing new here.

It been documented over and over again that the BuShites from the day they siezed power have routinely ignored scientific fact if it conflicts with their political agenda and have controlled scientific investigation to the extent they are able to do so.

The bullshit they used to eviscerate the mercury emissions section of the Clean Air Act is a case in point.

Search google news or similar & you'll have more documentation than you can read in a month.

Subject: RE: BS: Academic independence in Soviet America
From: TIA
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:23 PM

Don't bother to google. The Union of Concerned Scientists (a thoroughly non-partisan group) has been tracking this for years. Start your reading here.

Subject: RE: BS: Academic independence in Soviet America
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 04:13 PM

Try working as a scientist for any large multinational company. Most such companies are run by their marketing communities. The marketeers seem to think that the scientists are only there to confirm their (the marketeers)preconceptions and to take responsibility for them. Any scientist who attempts to resist this sort of thinking receives short shrift - he is either side-lined or loses his job.
I believe that many modern societies are riddled with this sort of buck-passing and shitty, ignorant dishonesty at every level. Those in power see science as both a source of power and influence and an annoying expense - usually at the same time. I don't know what the answer is.

Subject: RE: BS: Academic independence in Soviet America
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 08:20 PM

The Roman Empire seemed to think that all the world was just for their personal use - such 'business activity' as mentioned above will eventually lead to the collapse of the society that promotes it.

Subject: RE: BS: Academic independence in Soviet America
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 08:51 PM

I thought DougR invented the expression "horse puckey". Perhaps not. If not, what is its origin? Is there any connection with hockey? Probably not, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Academic independence in Soviet America
From: mooman
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 05:23 AM

Agree with Guest DB. It is occuring outside the US too but perhaps not so blatantly as the example given.

Peace

moo

(a side-lined scientist earning a pittance in a medical association but fortunately not a big company as I am not prepared to sacrifice my hard-earned scientific integrity. Rider to that... there are some ethical companies)

Subject: RE: BS: Academic independence in Soviet America
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 04:45 PM

I've heard that term all my life, LH. My guess would be that since horse dung comes in puck portions that the term is another way of saying BS.

Subject: RE: BS: Academic independence in Soviet America
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 05:04 PM

Col Potter used it all the time on MASH and he was represented as old-fashioned; the term was well established long before then.

A