BS: Old Pocket Watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 10:18 PM

Ok.. I see now. Too many serial #s...that low # referred to something about the case, I guess...but the outer case had a much larger #. The works dates to 1906, which makes more sense, as my grandmother went to the 1904 Worlds Fair in St. Louis and the family moved from Pennsylvania to Oklahoma in about 1910, no doubt passing thru Missouri on the trip.

I cannot find any marks indicating # of jewels. Maybe it says somewhere hidden.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 06:55 AM

This big fat 15 jewel Illinois is still keeping perfect time.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 09:09 AM

correct on the omega ban Q but on ebay I saw NOS going for under 100

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 09:35 AM

if you want to send it to me Bill, I will take care of it for you and get it serviced. Probably run you about 30 bucks or so if it doesn't need a spring job. Mahlon will be back in a couple of weeks. He is teaching a hair spring course to "English" watchmakers.

Keep your eyes out guys for a 30 Jeweled Lord Elgin 760 or 761 movement. Those puppies are sought after bigtime, I have both. They were the only true American autowind watches ever made. All others were swiss based. Sadly Elgin's innovation led to their demise. They spent so much money on redesign of the autowind feature that they never recovered. We had a great discussion on the NAWCC about them. They are not rare but very elusive and hard to find. When you find one on ebay you can ususally pick it up very cheap 50 or 80 bucks if they don't show the movement. However all 30 jeweled Elgins had the 760 or 761 movement. wonderful watch

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 04:42 PM

Will
do you own a Hamilton 936?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 04:55 PM

I have a spare 936 (a fully serviced beauty) I want to give you as a gift if you don't own one. email me Will as I will be gone from mudcat for a while.

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 06:01 PM

Hi Dan - no, I don't have a 936 - I don't see many of them over here. Are they a decent grade?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 06:51 PM

I object to this thread drift about WRIST watches!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 09:09 PM

its the first of the great Hamilton RR pocket watches, the one that started it all for the Hamilton company

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 09:10 PM

I think I initially brought wristwatches up, so its my fault & I hereby apoligize for my apostasy.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 09:18 PM

All the pocket watch collectors I know also have a few good wrist timepieces as well. Hamilton, Illinois, Elgin and others switched to wristwatches as popularity of pocket watches waned.
Doug Sinclair, NAWCC member mentioned here several times, has some fine ones, and a good selection of better examples of wristwatch styles.

Remember the Curvex type? These make a fine collection.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 Apr 13 - 04:18 AM

Gruen Curvexes are beautiful watches - much sought after. I have a Hampden Curvex-style wrist watch with a blue and gold dial - stunning. Other hand-wind wrist watches from the 1940s and 1950s in my collection are by Hamilton, Wittnauer and Longines - all lovely.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Apr 13 - 07:38 PM

I have a South Bend pocket watch that I have up and running today. It is 12 size in a gold (fill) case. The numerals are thin line, making the face seem open.
I like to carry it because it is light and thin.

I can't get the back unscrewed, so I am going to take it to my watch service so that I can identify the movement. I suspect that it is a "Studebaker."

Most of the South Bend 12 size were produced in small numbers according to the Engle et al. price guide I have, but prices quoted are fairly low.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 May 13 - 05:14 AM

Just acquired a 1950s Gruen wristwatch (more thread drift...). Very nice blue and gold dial, and a sweet movement.

Gruen face

Gruen movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 May 13 - 12:09 PM

That Gruen is an attractive watch.
I yielded to impulse and bid in a Lord Elgin with movable lugs that allow it to rest on the side of the wrist, for easy viewing when driving. It too, has a classic black face and is in excellent condition.

It arrived last week and I have been wearing it. Were these watches sold with the movable lugs or is it "aftermarket"?

I also picked up an Omega Seamaster, 23j cal 1022. It is keeping perfect time. It is a model unpopular with collectors (day-date) so it was very reasonable compared with designs lacking the day in the window. It has the original bracelet in good condition, the proper crown, and the dial is in excellent original condition.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 May 13 - 01:58 PM

The "drivers' watches" were designed to be worn on the side of the wrist while driving - with the moveable lugs as an integral part of the design. I wore my drivers' Wittnauer recently on a journey, and it worked beautifully - just a glance and the time was right there!

Congrats on the Seamaster, by the way - hope it didn't break the bank!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 May 13 - 02:02 PM

The Seamaster was $300. An unpopular design but the same 1022 cal. of other models.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 May 13 - 06:54 PM

The day/date Seamaster was unpopular because the calendar parts wore and were expensive to replace.
If you are not particular about that, the watch is the same excellent timekeeper as the other models.

Mine has a calendar problem. I will ask olddude, when he gets back, to see his watchmaker about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 May 13 - 07:29 AM

Just got myself a very nice Waltham Vanguard railway watch from 1901 - 23 jewels, nice 10ct gold-filled hinged case - and a fairly clean (if slightly worn) railway-style dial.

Face

Movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 May 13 - 11:54 AM

Gee whillikers! Great watch and condition looks excellent.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 May 13 - 12:25 PM

It's very good - the case is ever so slightly scratched where the hinged parts have been opened (case knife on the inner dust cover, for example), but the overall condition is excellent for its age.

So far, keeping time to the second - not bad for 112 years!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 08 May 13 - 04:44 PM

beautiful watches Will

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 May 13 - 07:57 PM

Are you back, olddude? Hope you had a good time (I understand it was a family time holiday).

I have a question for your watchmaker. I have a fine looking Omega Seamaster, 23j, but the day-date doesn't work (or parts missing?). What does he think of the calendar mechanism? Is it difficult to get and repair/replace the parts?

I may send the watch to you if he says he can do the work reasonably.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 May 13 - 11:23 PM

He works on a ton of Omega watches. I am sure he can fix the date for you cheap ... I will ask him cause I will see him next week

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 May 13 - 04:21 AM

Hi Dan - good to see you back on the Most Important Thread on Mudcat! :-)

Hope you've been having a great time - and it really is good to see you back here.

One question for you: the Vanguard I've just got clearly datea from 1901, and the case and movement fit this period beautifully. I was struck, however, by the modernity of the near-Montgomery style face. Would this perhaps be a later change to the watch - or did those dials exist as early as that?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 May 13 - 01:01 PM

Will Fly, my guess is a replacement. That style seems to be 1920s. But I am NO expert on that. Replacements are not uncommon on the older watches that were lever set- accidents did happen, and it was a cheap repair.

Olddude, I will wait for his answer. The watch keeps time accurately, the automatic feature keeps it going overnight when I am in bed, it has the original bracelet and crown, and the dial is fresh and untouched. But I would like to have it up to original performance with the day/date performing.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 09 May 13 - 01:17 PM

Will is this watch a size 18 or 16? if it is 16, the dial is absolutely authentic. Waltham used painted dials on their 16's. It looks like an original dial to me. I have had 4 of them in size 16 and all exactly like yours. Now the size 18 used a enamel dial and was not painted but Waltham used those painted dials all the way up to the 1940's

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 May 13 - 01:19 PM

Any advice on getting a Hamilton 945, GF case? Are they any good?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 09 May 13 - 03:34 PM

There is no bad Hamilton BB, the 945 is a wonderful watch if you can get it under 200 nail it

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 May 13 - 06:18 PM

The Hamilton 945 is Swiss made. One I found has 23j. Seems to be a very good watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 May 13 - 06:29 PM

Or are you talking about the 945 pocket watch? This is American made, small, 10 size.
Engle et al. Price Guide to watches (2011) lists it at $100-185-325 (the last for mint condition). Actual prices are somewhat higher.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 May 13 - 06:32 PM

The Waltham is a size 16, Dan - so it's probably as authentic as claimed by the seller. Hurray!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 May 13 - 06:41 PM

More on the 945 pocket watch. Adv. as adjusted to 20 seconds over the five positions. This from NAWCC post. A version of the 917 with more jewels.

I can find very little on the 945 wristwatch. It seems to be rare. One is shown on youtube.

Several watches shown on youtube. Interesting!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 May 13 - 07:01 PM

That 945 wrist watch on youtube is marked U.S.A. on the movement, but the dial says Swiss Made. I think the 1940-1950 date given the watch is wrong.
Were the movements left over after USA closure moved to Switzerland?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU33fCdbs00

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 May 13 - 07:21 PM

My latest purchase. I bought it to resell. 1966 Omega Seamaster automatic
24 Jeweled caliber 565 ... perfect runner. Mahlon needs to buff out the crystal for me and that is about it.

Omega

back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 May 13 - 07:23 PM

It has an original omega baby croc band with it. Like those better then them bracelet

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 May 13 - 08:14 PM

Will see the recessed second hand dial on your Waltham. It is counter sunk. That is original painted dial from the date of the watch. Perfect and original. The la-rose replacement painted dials were not counter sunk.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 May 13 - 08:17 PM

Q you are right on the 945's they are scarce. They were American made by Hamilton however, they also kept the same line when Hamilton was bought out by the Swiss. If it is from the 50's it is American and well worth the cost if you can nail it under 200. Over that i would invest my money in a seamaster

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 May 13 - 04:01 AM

Nice Seamaster, Dan - show us a pic of the buffed-up face at some stage.

I'd also noticed that the Vanguard seconds dial was actually quite deeply countersunk - hadn't realised that was so significant though!

The watch is keeping fantastic time - to the second - not bad for 1901...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 May 13 - 01:31 PM

For anyone who is confused about Omega Seamaster calibres, there is a near complete listing, and parts list, at this site:

http://www.omega-fanatic.com/pages/gallery/omega-caliber-47032.

Many offers on Ebay omit the caliber because they can't open the watch (messes up the watrproofing in any case, if you are interested in that).

Many Omegas were produced, so prices are low in the price lists except for exceptional, mint or rare models. Some (many?) of the prices listed on Ebay are excessive.

Collectors seem to prefer plain steel over plated, because they can be buffed to remove minute scratches. (see olddude's).

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 11 May 13 - 05:08 PM

Thanks Q, that is very useful to know there is a link. I really didn't need another seamaster but at 200 bucks I could not resist. Mahlon will buff it up for me

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 May 13 - 11:20 AM

The omega 565 looks like new after a mild buffing .. Wow ... I think it is a keeper since it is dead on accurate

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 May 13 - 11:33 AM

Here's my new Gruen Curvex "Precision" from 1950...

Gruen Curvex "Precision" 1950

All fully restored by a German watchmaker - wonderful curved body and huge domed glass - and keeps spot on time so far.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 May 13 - 12:17 PM

Nice looking watch. In a drawer I have an old Bulova "Curvex" that belonged to my father. along with a pocket watch.
It lacks a crystal and doesn't run, but I will have to dig it out and see if it is restorable.

Olddude, any response from Mahlon on difficulty and cost of repair of day-date function on Omega automatic?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 13 May 13 - 12:42 PM

Mahlon said he can handle it no issue ... however if it needs a part we may have to look for one
Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 13 May 13 - 12:43 PM

Will
that is an awesome watch ... love it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 May 13 - 09:16 PM

still goo goo over this Seamaster 565 ... absolutly beautiful after buffing and it has not lost a sec since I strapped it on

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 May 13 - 10:32 PM

bad lighting it is steel but the light on my cell phone made it look gold colored. But it cleaned up beautiful
565

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 May 13 - 10:00 PM

I am convinced that omega makes the best wrist watches ever made. That 565 is keeping 992B time

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 May 13 - 10:02 PM

I should say made since Omega was bought out by swatch 25 years ago. The 50's and 60's and 70's flavor of the seamaster is the ones I think you should focus on if you plan on getting one. If you find one that needs work Mahlon is a master on them and has a lot of parts as long as they are the standard stuff