BS: Old Pocket Watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 May 13 - 04:28 AM

That really has come up well, Dan - looks gorgeous.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 15 May 13 - 11:11 AM

thanks Will, the one you got me is still my favorite

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 May 13 - 12:37 PM

Omega made a fine watch that was affordable to those who wanted something better than the cheapies of the day, but could not afford Patek Philipe or Vacheron Constantin.
As a result they carved out an important niche for themselves.

Clever advertising and upgraded models made Rolex a leader in a higher price range. Experts I know prefer Rolex, but they don't knock Omega's better calibres.

Collectors go for the pre-Swatch Omegas.

Rolex put out passable or so-so watches before a shift in philosophy and factory upgrade led to the fine watches that they produce today. I have a couple of these early ones (often sold under store names) but none of the fine ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 May 13 - 01:49 PM

The 565 was made into the 50,800,000 numbers, which brings it up to 1986.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 May 13 - 01:55 PM

Sorry, I misread a 3 for a 5 in the serial number. the 30,000,000 numbers are 1970s.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 May 13 - 02:18 PM

Omega serial numbers:

http://chronomaddox.com/omega_serial_numbers.html

Accurate to 2 years either way.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,Calum
Date: 15 May 13 - 04:30 PM

Since this seems to be a knowledgeable place to ask - I inherited a pocket watch and pocket stopwatch from my grandfather. I don't think they're old or valuable, but I don't know how to even begin finding out. One is silver hallmarked, so it's got some scrap value at least!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 May 13 - 05:09 PM

sure just take a pic and we can let you know.

Q my 21 Jeweled seamaster is 1972. My lastest the steel cased 24 Jeweled is 1966

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 May 13 - 05:52 PM

Hey Q
my date was sticking on my latest seamaster. A simple drop of oil fixed it just fine. I suspect that is your problem on yours

dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 May 13 - 07:28 PM

Guest Calum-
Give us all the words you can read on your watch and stopwatch and we will try to help.
If the back of the watch unscrews or comes off easily, give us all the words you find on the movement.

Be careful, some of the older English watches are easily damaged (or any watch, for that matter).

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 15 May 13 - 11:17 PM

This is my seamaster collection so far
1966 24 Jeweled 565 auto with date
1967 17 Jeweled 601 manual wind
1972 21 Jeweled 1110 auto with date
1971 17 Jeweled 1120 auto with date

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 15 May 13 - 11:20 PM

Wills 601 is absolutely mint but the 565 sure came out beautiful also. The 1110 is at Mahlons getting a full Coa (going to sell it) That one has a square dial. Beautiful watch

The 1120 is fine, I will get it serviced when I get time. I never wear it and I will probably sell it. The only two I want is Wills 601 and the 565

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 16 May 13 - 03:16 PM

565

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 16 May 13 - 03:21 PM

just noticed I need to set the date

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 May 13 - 12:36 AM

hey check out this little ditty my daughter bought me
itsreal

Hey Q do you want my 565 Omega for 250 bucks?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 May 13 - 12:46 AM

Rolex Original 3135 Automatic Mechanical Movement
2
3
4

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 May 13 - 12:57 AM

it needs serviced but Mahlon is certified to work on Rolex. He said no issue he wants to work on it really bad. I guess I am now done for I don't think I will need another.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 May 13 - 01:20 AM

steel case needs polished but it will be perfect when I am done
back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 May 13 - 01:21 AM

I think she nuts up my collecting .. now what do I shoot for gosh

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 May 13 - 02:49 AM

Doug thinks it is a knock off. he should know. Lucky she did not pay a lot for it ... Oh well back to collecting

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 May 13 - 04:27 AM

Interesting about the Rolex, Dan - what are the reasons for the conclusions about it being a knock-off? I know very little about Rolex watches, so I'm curious to know what one should look for.

I know with Omega, for example, that the style of the case, the crown, the dial - all have some bearing on whether it's an original, a refurb or a fake. Do the same things go for Rolex? And, of course, there's the movement...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 17 May 13 - 09:45 AM

I didn't get it yet, she mailed it but the movement will tell me for sure. Doug says the case and bracelet is not correct .. I guess it is possible it was recased but I will see when I can pop open the movment

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 May 13 - 10:40 AM

It is possible that someone put an original movement in an after market case. Even so the knocks offs can be expensive and it looks like a beautiful watch. I will cherish it cause my kid got it for me

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 May 13 - 12:55 PM

Doug is correct, the case and bracelet are wrong. The crown and *"pushy pins" are not Rolex designs that I can find.
When you get it, please post pictures of the movement.

* My daughter's term. I like it!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 May 13 - 01:04 PM

Thanks, that is a super price for a 565. I have one, but date only.

I also have a 1022 that needs service, and a "mystery" Seamaster auto (haven't opened it) that I picked up long ago with another watch. It is about 1960s vintage.

I don't want another Omega, but thanks.

I have 3-4 watches that need service, and I will concentrate on those, getting them up to snuff

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,Calum
Date: 17 May 13 - 02:30 PM

Thanks very much, all. Apologies in advance for the dreadful and oversized pictures - all the quality a cellphone can produce.

http://www.callingthetune.co.uk/watch/

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 May 13 - 03:00 PM

Calum-
The Swiss stop watch looks like a good quality instrument.

The half-hunter pocket watch has set jewels, and the movement seems un-rusted. The dial is in good condition and looks like porcelain finish. It too, looks like a good watch- not the very expensive, but good quality. Some smaller maker's watches did nor have trademark names, but the watchmakers name or initials are usually on them. Another possibility is that the watch was cased by a dealer, who obtained the movements separately.

In any case, BOTH look worth taking to a watch repair, and finding out more about them. They are not cheapies, and seem worthy of repair. Something you might want to keep as family items.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 May 13 - 03:07 PM

Calum, the pictures seem to show a lever-set watch. Another sign of a better watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,Calum
Date: 17 May 13 - 05:16 PM

Thanks, Q. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they are good quality pieces - my grandfather's family were Navy men back to Nelson and beyond, and they tended to buy things that would last. Someone recently pointed out to us that a set of twelve chairs we've had kicking around the house since forever are in fact George III vintage. Not a dab of glue or a screw in sight and they're as tight as a drum.

Yes, I can't see me wanting to move them on but it's worth knowing how to look after them and whether or not to insure them! I'll find someone to take a closer look - shouldn't be hard to find someone in London.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 May 13 - 02:22 PM

olddude, this is a must for your collection.
Breguet tourbillon chronograph, in stock at the Watchery for $130,626, on sale! This is their type XX.

The offer says that Breguets were supplied to American pilots starting in 1918.
Anyone know about this?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 May 13 - 02:00 PM

so I get my watch today, go over to Mahlon roll up my sleeve and he goes. Wow where did you get that really bad Chinese fake Rolex .. LOL

it does run and keep time however, lucky she did not pay much for it,

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 May 13 - 02:04 PM

Q
I just bought one like it ... it comes right from China, like my rolex LOL

Mahlon said he will fix up your Omega's cheap as you are a good friend to me. Just picked up my seamaster 1110 perfect running now. I dropped it and blew a balance staff. Tried to pay him and he booted me out of the shop.   I have to learn not to argue with my Amish friends they always win ... I will get him back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 May 13 - 02:05 PM

Calum
that is a beautiful watch. The movement to my eye looks quality also. Swiss I think I don't believe it is English. Case is however .. that is not unusual at all ... wonderful family piece

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 May 13 - 02:18 PM

I have a Chinese watch, 27 jewel, automatic, with calendar and stopwatch functions, and it runs well.
The movement is probably similar to that in some of the Rolex-etc. knockoffs.
Amazing what is done in modern mass production plants.

I think I posted about it before, clunky and the function knobs get pushed by shirtsleeves. But not bad for under $100.

I am thinking about posting that Omega to you. The postage/insurance will be a bit high, and I will have to pay Canadian sales tax on the repair.
I'll let you know soon. I will get an estimate from my watchmaker here. He has received enough work from me that he won't mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,Calum
Date: 20 May 13 - 03:21 PM

Thanks olddude,

For what it's worth the hallmarks on the case seem to definitely be Swiss silver, but as you say a very English style case.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 20 May 13 - 09:18 PM

no you will not have to Q, I will tell him to mark it gift when he ships it back or I will mark it

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 May 13 - 01:16 PM

In mailings to Canada, never use the "gift" statement unless the value is $25 or less.

The word "gift" is a red sign to Customs post inspectors. The package gets held and it takes a lot of talk and payment of their assessment, which usually is Canadian retail for a new, similar item, to get it.

Often a properly declared package will go into the out bin without examination if they are busy.

Sometimes one is lucky with that gift statement, but much safer to declare approx. value.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 May 13 - 12:19 PM

I spotted three watches at a timed online auction some weeks ago, so put in a minimum bid. There was no info about the watches other than that one of them had "Roamer" on the dial. Derek, my watch repairing friend in Hamble, collects Roamers and I thought he might be able to do something with it. The auction lot arrived through the post - two of the watches were cheap quartz crap (destined for the rubbish drawer) - but the Roamer didn't look too bad, so I had it over to Derek's for a sort-out. Collected it this morning with a new mainspring, new crystal, new button, cleaned, serviced and with some gentle polishing to the dial - all for £35... Turned out it was a MST 402 from around 1950 - and a good quality movement.

I was going to put it on eBay - but I've ended up wearing it - and it's a keeper!

Roamer 402 face

Roamer 402 movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 May 13 - 12:30 PM

I see the Roamer is 17j. New name to me. An attractive face.

There is a Wikipedia article on them, which I just found. Looks like the company is still around. The article states older Roamers are collected. The illustration looks like your watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 May 13 - 12:30 PM

Well, folks, this may be it! A reincarnation of the old trustworthy Ingersoll and Westclox dollar pocket watches.

Price on Ebay- 0.01. Postage 9.99. Hunter-cased with chain. From China.

OK, I'm a sucker for these things. I'll describe it when I get it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 May 13 - 12:48 PM

Just dug out an old Westclox pocket watch. It is marked Made in Canada.
Gone are the days when Canada had a lot of manufacturing plants. Now everything is oriental in flavor.

I have a Leica M-4 camera and 90mm telephoto lens, both made in Canada, when Leitz had a plant here. I bought them new when they were made.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 May 13 - 02:11 PM

Price on Ebay- 0.01. Postage 9.99. Hunter-cased with chain. From China.

Got one about a year ago - just out of curiosity! As light as a feather and as cheap as chips (as we say over here). Keeps great time and, when it stops working - as it surely will - I'll hang it on the wall as an ornament.

I'm sure they press the parts out as almost one piece... But - as you say - the modern equivalent of the dollar watch, just flimsier.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 May 13 - 03:23 PM

I have a daughter who always needs vintage props for little theatre, and a grandson who is working this summer at a heritage site (Ft. Steele, B.C.).
I may get another cheapie or two- if they get lost, no big deal.

Surprised to find Westclox listed in the Engle et al. price guide. Some interesting models. I can understand now why some collect the "dollar" watches.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 May 13 - 07:15 PM

Will
that roamer has a nice movement .. heck ya I bet it keeps good time. nice watch

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 May 13 - 06:08 AM

It's keeping great time, Dan - I'm pleasantly surprised by the overall quality. My friend Derek (who collects them) thinks they're very under-rated - particularly the pre-quartz era calibres. And, because he collects them, he has a shed-load of spares and can do most anything with the brand.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 24 May 13 - 04:34 PM

In the 50's there were lots and lots of small watch companies that made very high quality watches but folded only because they could not compete with the big guys.   On the NAWCC they talked about many of them and what a deal a person can get with some of these undervalued small shop companies. I am not sure your company size it may have been larger or smaller but from what I can see that is a fine watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 May 13 - 05:34 PM

Here's some info on vintage Roamer watches...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 May 13 - 10:56 AM

Since Olddude and Q dropped into the eBay thread to compare notes, I thought I'd stop by the Pocket Watch thread to see if you were still really talking about watches. (I hasten to add that I didn't doubt it - if some of us can spend years discussing the wide-reaching topic of "decluttering" and do everything from garage sale hints to talking a member through cancer, who knows what potential lurks in a pocket watch thread?)

It's a little "Antiques Roadshow" here at Mudcat, perpetually stuck in the timepiece episode. :)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 May 13 - 12:39 PM

SRS, as a long time clutterer, I am wary of declutterers, unless they aim declutter-discards my way, but you are welcome so long as you refrain from proselytizing in the watch thread.

(My clutter words have red lines below them, meaning my version 7 doesn't recognize them.)

Now I must sign off, Ebay offers are calling.....

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 May 13 - 12:47 PM

Oh, no fear- I tend to reclutter as fast as I declutter. With a higher class of clutter. I'm thinking about adding a really big piece of high-quality clutter right now. (Not a watch, but a quarter-sawn oak art deco bar.)

SRS