BS: Old Pocket Watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 05:23 PM

Interesting article on Canadian Pacific RR watches.
http://people.timezone.com/msandler/Articles/ClitheroeRailroad/Railroad.html
The first watch developed specifically for the railroad trade was the Elgin "B. W. Raymond, which in the 1867 model was 15 jewel and key wound.
The last list was made in 1957, and included models of Zenith, Brandt (Omega) and Longines.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 10:58 AM

So far, the two Elgins and the Chinese one are tied for first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 12:57 PM

Mine are right on also ... especially the Hamilton RR watches. My God those old things are impressive. I suspect my Illinois will start to show it's age after a week or so. Need Malin to work some magic on it. So far however it is right there

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 03:15 PM

Just got a 60hr Bunn Special, lever set, only 21j, but a good-looking movement. It was running when the package came (regular USPS). I have set it and put it next to the Crescent Street that I am keeping up with. I think the price was low since the back is monogrammed and there is a very short hairline at the 5-6 position that is almost covered by the face ring.
I won't look at them until next Tuesday- by then I shound know if the news is good or bad.

NAWCC has a good summary article on RR watches. Private labels were OK until WW1 era, then some of the RRs ruled those dials out. Doug Sinclair repaired one with a smalltown B.C. jeweler's name, a Brandt (Omega).

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 07:26 PM

Q
Doug otta know, he has forgotten more about watches than I will ever know for sure.

Those guys on the watch site are incredible. Mike offered one time to service my 992B for me for free. Ethan is sending me a dial for my Illinois and got mad when I offered to pay him. Great people there for sure. My God do they know the history.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 09:06 AM

I just have to remember to wind them every day. If one stops, it's toast.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 08:42 AM

It happened. One of my Elgins stopped in the night. It's out of the running. The Russian Rolex lost two minutes since Tuesday, the 572 lost half a minute but the big fat Elgin is right on the money. The Chinese Majesti gained a minute, so that's out.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 04:26 PM

Your Elgin is doing pretty good. I can see my one 992 needs serviced. It has lost over a full minute. The 992B are a few secs off. The 22 Jeweled Illinois is bang on ... hmmm go figure, that one is a gents watch not a RR watch. The old 940 with the weak mainspring is right on also maybe a sec or two slow ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 04:48 PM

It aint over til it's over.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 06:26 PM

Added an 1881 Elgin Bartlett to those I have on my desk. Two days late, but I'll keep it going for the two more days to se how it comes out.
I will find out if the extra watches need cleaning and/or adjusting.

MY entry watch, the Crescent Street, is right on with the computer time. Too early to tell if it will stay in the running.

Another old Waltham 18s is also "on time." A Bunn Special 21j 60hr is a hair slow, but hard to measure. A Waltham 17j with "Canadian Railway Time" engraved on the bridge is 4 minutes slow and obviously needs cleaning. The 992B is about 2 1/2 minutes fast. Another Waltham model 1908, 17j (just a good but unexceptional watch that I am trying to adjust) is also about 2 1/2 minutes fast.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 06:37 PM

olddude, what is that 22j Illinois? Do you mean 21j? What model?
I could go back on your messages, but I have to check on the butter chicken I have simmering away, and fix dinner right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 07:51 PM

21J I am sorry typo ... it is the size 12 1925 or so Illinois gents with the bad dial that Ethan is going to send me a replacement. Malin tuned it up for me before the wind off but didn't have a 12 dial. I figured it would show its age in a few days but it is purring along even better than my 992B's or at least as good. With the dial nuts up I have to wait till it hits a big number to be sure. So far though when my cell says x my Illinois is right there. My 992B's look a few secs slow but that could be the setting time also. One of my 992's is off a min and half ... time for service on that one

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 08:52 PM

My Elgin 17 Jeweled 600 series (nice watch) really needs service or demagnetized. Running 4 min fast

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 01:07 PM

Can you explain sizes to me? I have a little one, a medium one and a fat one.All Elgins.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 02:09 PM

Fat one is 18. Middle one is 16, your small one is 12 .. since I know your watches these are correct captain

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 02:14 PM

Barry Goldberg gives a chart and explanation of watch sizes. This confused me also for a time.

http://barrygoldberg.net/watchinfo.htm
Several topics to click on including:

Click on, "What Size Is My Watch?" or go direct to http://barrygoldberg.net/watchguide/size.htm

You will find other charts for European watches.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 07:35 PM

Thanks, Dan. That is most helpful.
Btw, all three Elgins are right on the money.

It's hard to set them because the time keeps changing on the TV or computer, and I can't control the second hands.

I'm amazed at how much interest this subject has generated.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 11:22 AM

Old number 18 is half a minute fast, but numbers 16 and 12 are right on.(Elgin)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 11:02 AM

Illinois and my 992B's are running far better than RR time. However my one Hamilton 992 is off 3 full minutes. That watch needs service for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 12:03 PM

Poor old number 18 didn't wake up this morning, but number 16 is perfect.12 is a close second.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 01:54 PM

After 1 week-
Crescent Street within 1/2 minute.
Others (not in contest)-
Bunn 60hr Special- 2 min slow; 992B, 2 min fast; 1881 Elgin America 1 1/2 min fast; Waltham Bartlett 3/4 min fast.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 04:37 PM

992B's not in the race but both are only 10+ secs off. My 992 is terrible now dropped to 3 full min. My 940 is out, it wound down last night. The Illinois in the race is now a full minute off

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 04:55 PM

I take it back one 992B is 10+ sec slow. The other I cannot even measure. At exactly 4:53 it hit exactly 4:53 my God those things are impressive. However not in the race. The Illinois is more than 1 full min fast more like min and half to nearly two

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 04:58 PM

I am more inclined to believe it is less about the watch accuracy of the 992B's and more about the master watchmaker who serviced them both

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 06:33 PM

Obviously some of my watches need the service of our watchmakers. It has been many years since they have been cleaned and adjusted. I will have that done for one or two, but the expense is too great to treat more than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 06:35 PM

Have Mahlon do it Q ... you will be pleased at the price

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 07:09 PM

I have a good one here in beautiful downtown Calgary, olddude.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 07:25 PM

always wanted to see Calgary ... the photo's I have seen of it is breathtaking beautiful ... Always is in the Rockies for sure ...
great fishing I hear

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 08:24 PM

Which one of you wants this one we found in SantaFe? Dan, what size number does it look to be?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 09:02 PM

Dean box er up their guy ... I will get some custom pants made :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 09:13 PM

This is incredible. One week and my number 16 Elgin is right on the money!

I wonder why some watches wind hard and others so easily?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 10:05 PM

Kendall
after so many years the crow gets worn smooth, the stem gets bent or not fully seated ... that is the normal reason ... easy repair however. I got a couple myself that wind hard but not to the point where I want to invest money

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 11:25 PM

guest was me sorry, and i meant crown not crow

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 07:48 AM

I also don't understand how anything mechanical can be perfect.

The crown on the 16 and the 12 is so small they are hard to get a grip on.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 09:02 AM

They are not perfect my friend, but they were made by craftsmen who took great care and pride in their work.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 03:03 PM

One reason I like the old 18 size- the crown is easy to grip with my arthritic fingers.
The better watches were machined to extremely fine tolerances, and ruby and sapphire jewels, harder than steel, bore the spindles to the little wheels that went round and round, guaranteeing a long life.
Not perfect, but well-made. Watchmakers of the time always had a supply of repair parts. Even small towns along RR lines had a good watchmaker, certified by the RR, who could put a sick watch back to top condition.

Watchmakers capable of doing repair to old watches today took up the parts left over after the manufacturers ceased operation.
Last week I received back a watch of a great grandads. It needed a new mainspring, and a roller jewel. The watchmaker had the "new" old stock mainspring on hand but it took a while to locate the proper roller jewel, also new old stock.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 03:22 PM

The supply of "new old stock" is running out. There are not too many technician watchmakers who can use a watchmaker's lathe today.

Like parts for old Model Ts' to Porsches, some are being turned out in China, Japan and other countries. I heard someone in India is producing ruby jewels for old watches. Generally, these after-market reproduction parts are of poorer quality, according to collectors.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 03:37 PM

Two years ago I dropped one of mine, broke a Jewel .. 100 bucks to repair. The old saying they don't make them like that anymore .. so true with many of the watch parts. A master watchmaker today can make outstanding parts, but the time and skill needed ain't cheap for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 03:38 PM

By the way, lesson learn. Use a CHAIN .. if you drop it ... normally big bucks to fix .. they are precision machines

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 04:01 PM

Hey Q
did you see the watches on the watch site that the guys grandpa left him. He wanted to know what to sell them for. I could cry .. They are all solid gold, Top shelf RR .. E. Howard solid gold ... museum collection for sure.

my God what a collection .. His grand dad probably spent his life acquiring them now he wants to sell them ... how awful

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 04:34 PM

That roller jewel the old Elgin G.M. Wheeler needed cost $75. It took the watchmaker 10 months to find it. Clean, oil and adjust ? Like that yacht in the marina, if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 04:42 PM

A week and a day and number 16 is right on the money, to the second. How can anything not be called perfect?
By the way, I always use a chain.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 10:18 AM

Impressive for sure Kendall. That 16 was my carry watch and it always keeps far better than RR time ... Very highly tuned including the regulator. It will keep doing that for years before needing a tune up

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 11:45 AM

I have never been much of a fan of size 12 watches. But this Illinois is pretty darn good for its age. The 992B's are so accurate it is hard to measure. Far better then RR time and far better than any Rolex. Captain save your money and get a 992B but before you buy talk to me or Q (Q knows a hell of a lot more than me). I think the 992B was the best watch ever made myself. I carry mine daily now.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 12:40 PM

If I see one how will I know it's a 992b?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 12:53 PM

People with old pocket watches that are not really into the hobby should not expect the times that I get or Q or kendall or the watch forum. It takes a lot to make a 100 year old watch run like it did from the factory. Ain't cheap. A typical mechanical watch will lose over a min a day unless highly serviced.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 01:22 PM

Ususally says "railway special on the dial" but you still have to unscrew the case and see the 992B 21 Jewel, adjusted 6 pos. It is a size 16

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 02:18 PM

992B for Canadian RR had a 24hr dial, only said Hamilton on the face.
There were 3 common face dials: Hamilton, Hamilton Special RR, and the Military model which usually had a 24hr dial- the small second-hand dial had a small 6 and 18 (top and bottom positions).

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 02:25 PM

Kendall - I hope the Elgin that was returned to you on 9 May is keeping good time!

Kitty
xx

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 02:27 PM

The 992B Military had U.S.Govt. additionally on the movement- perhaps not all. They had a silver case, usu. with an ordinance number on the back.
There also was a Hamilton 17j watch used in the military (forget the model number).