BS: Gun Sales Are Up

Subject: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 02:28 PM

Obama is already bringing recovery to the economy. Gun sales are up. This from the NYT:

DENVER — Sales of handguns, rifles and ammunition have surged in the last week, according to gun store owners around the nation who describe a wave of buyers concerned that an Obama administration will curtail their right to bear arms.

"He's a gun-snatcher," said Jim Pruett, owner of Jim Pruett's Guns and Ammo in northwest Houston, which was packed with shoppers on Thursday.

"He wants to take our guns from us and create a socialist society policed by his own police force," added Mr. Pruett, a former radio personality, of President-elect Barack Obama.

Mr. Pruett said that sales last Saturday, just before Election Day, ran about seven times higher than a typical good Saturday.

A spot check by reporters in four other states easily found Mr. Pruett's comments echoed from both sides of the counter.

David Nelson, a co-owner of Montana Ordnance & Supply in Missoula, Mont., said his buyers were "awake and aware and see a dangerous trend."

Mr. Nelson said sales at his store had risen about 30 percent since Mr. Obama declared his candidacy. "People are concerned about overreaching legislation from Washington," he said. "They are educating themselves on the Internet."

In Colorado, would-be gun buyers set a one-day record

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 02:32 PM

I do love a totally unbiased post, from someone without an axe to grind, or an agenda to pursue.

XG

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: gnu
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 02:35 PM

Good idea. When people wake up and tell their government to stop toting guns in foreign lands, they will need someone to whoop. And, charity begins at home.

If they can't shoot ferinners, they'll come after folks at home. Adolf did.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: gnu
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 02:36 PM

Oh, now... we all know it's all tongue in cheek.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 02:37 PM

Very clever marketing there. As you'd expect.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Rog Peek
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 02:41 PM

If among other things Barack Obama is getting a name in America as a 'gun snatching socialist', I do fear for his safety.

Rog

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 02:56 PM

"I do love a totally unbiased post, from someone without an axe to grind, or an agenda to pursue."


Regardless of his motive, the story is true. These folks know their days are numbered so they are stocking up. These are the same folks that sit in tar papered shacks reading up on how they can form their own militias.   The nut jobs always see that they won't be able to get away with their crap any longer.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 03:10 PM

David Nelson, a co-owner of Montana Ordnance & Supply in Missoula, Mont., said his buyers were "awake and aware and see a dangerous trend."

Mr. Nelson said sales at his store had risen about 30 percent since Mr. Obama declared his candidacy. "People are concerned about overreaching legislation from Washington," he said. "They are educating themselves on the Internet."

So 10 of the 30 people living in Missoula bought guns...hardly a national trend.

And do these dates not correspond with opening dates of hunting seasons?????

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: PoppaGator
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 03:16 PM

"...educating themselves on the internet..."

Sad to say, the explosion of postmodern communications technology serves just as well for the promotion and promulgation of fear and ignorance as for real education and enlightenment.

We can only hope that those who are smart enough to be really good at using the internet and related technology to promote their agendas are smart enough to be sane and reasonable citizens.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 03:18 PM

Oh Mary for goodness sake, don't spoil the argument by bringing logic into it.

XG ¦¬]

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 03:25 PM

Let's put a positive spin on this - the Republicants have been doing that since Reagan. Think about this - Obama hasn't even taken the oath and already he is causing an increase in consumer spending. That has to be good for the economy, right???

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: gnu
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 03:37 PM

Hahahahaha... SINS, John, Ron... hehehehehee!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 03:42 PM

There are now two threads on this topic, and they are very similar in tone as they are unfolding.... I think it's too bad that when there's a really powerful opportunity to look forward in positivity, what seems to be happening in the CatBox is continued negatividad.

In short-- don't feed the trolls, don't give in to fear, and don't be reactive. If you can read this message, then you are a human bean-- and you're better than all that! :~)

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 03:44 PM

I have a pulse, does that count?

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 03:46 PM

The Brady gun control group points out, quite rightly, that both the pro-gun people agree with the Brady bunch that guns should be kept out of the hands of people who are a danger to society. The "gun show loophole" will most likely be closed, but the US has far, far, higher priorities right now than dealing with a subject so far under people's radar that it didn't even make it into the "top ten" campaign issues.

And this has been going on for over a month. I guess word just reached NYC, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 03:59 PM

"I think it's too bad that when there's a really powerful opportunity to look forward in positivity, what seems to be happening in the CatBox is continued negatividad."

Not at all. What seems to be happening is that a small group of nuts are panicking.   You can't let the fringe control the mood of a nation, especially when they are far from the majority of opinion. There is a powereful opportunity toward positive - and THAT is what is scarying these nutjobs. The fact that they are so afraid is PROOF POSITIVE that change IS occuring.   Don't let their spin spoil our buzz!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 04:13 PM

It's happening in Connecticut too:


Gun Sales Up 50 Percent In Conn.
Customers Cite New Administration As Reason

The surge in gun sales sprawling across the country started in Connecticut a couple of weeks ago.

One store owner said people are buying guns now while they can.

Many customers said they're stocking up on guns because they think the new administration will move quickly to restrict sales.

They said Democrats now control all three branches of the government and they feel the Democrats don't want the average American to have the right to defend themselves with guns.

Records show that gun stores across the country are experiencing a large increase in sales. In Colorado, records indicate a one-day record was set Nov. 1 for the highest number of background checks in a 24-hour period.

Connecticut stores have seen a similar spike, store owners said. They said the increase is about 50 percent.

Some purchasing guns said President-elect Barack Obama said that in times of adversity, Americans cling to their guns and religion. Others said they have researched Obama's and Vice President-elect Joe Biden's record on gun control on the Internet and don't like what they see.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: meself
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 04:24 PM

So - what's your point?

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 04:28 PM

Oh, for heaven's sake...! ;-) I really doubt that Barack Obama is going to take everybody's guns away. I think he will have far more important matters on his mind than that. He has a crippled economy to shore up and 2 foreign wars to deal with.

I wonder if Americans in general are aware that Mr Obama's general beliefs and policies as set out in both his own writings and his recent campaign rest somewhat to right of center for a Canadian or Western European politician???

If he were in Canada, he would occupy roughly the spot in our political spectrum that a moderate/progressive Republican would in the USA! He would be like one of our Conservatives, in other words.

However, he is enormously popular in Canada...because the people he was running against are seen as being to the right of Attila the Hun....therefore he is a big step in the right direction as far as we Canadians are concerned.

Here's a great article in today's Toronto Star to demonstrate what I'm talking about:

Canadian view of Barack Obama

The article is written by Rosie DiManno, one of Canada's foremost columnists. I would describe her as a tough "conservative" liberal in Canadian terms. That is, she writes for a liberal newspaper, but she tends to write from a rather conservative "tough love" mindset. For example, she has enthusiastically backed the Iraq war from day 1, while our government chose not to get involved in it and not to support it, and our public in general looked askance at the whole thing. I agree with Rosie DiManno about half the time. She's smart, tough, stubborn, and opinionated. I would not know whether to describe her as "liberal" or "conservative", because she just doesn't fully fit either description.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 04:30 PM

Rigin - why do you think this story is of any importance? If anything, it embraces the power of chnage that Obama has created.

Are you warning us that the nutjobs are creating a militia?? Is Timmy stuck in the well? What is it???

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 04:33 PM

" I wonder if Americans in general are aware that Mr Obama's general beliefs and policies as set out in both his own writings and his recent campaign rest somewhat to right of center for a Canadian or Western European politician??? "

That really does not amount to much. You are comparing apples and oranges.   Obamba is not President of Canada or Western Europe and the issues are different. What passes for right or left in the U.S. should be very different from the rest of the world, just as your politics are different from other countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 04:34 PM

Absolutely not, Ron. If you have time to look at my orginal post, you will see that I'm making the point that Obama is already turning the economy around.

                But then somebody made the observation that it was only happening in Montana, so I wanted to let folks know it was happening in Connecticut as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 04:36 PM

Connecticut stores have seen a similar spike, store owners said. They said the increase is about 50 percent.

I repeat - hunting season is starting. Gun sales always go up this time of year.

My customers who sell guns and gun stocks say sales are down because of the crappy economy. Go figure.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 04:37 PM

Isn't it great Rigin!!!   The man is making change all over the country! I know you were not a fan of his, but I'm glad to see you've seen the error of your ways. Good for you!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 04:37 PM

Just read the article, Ron. You'll find it interesting. It's always of some benefit, I think, to be more aware of how others see you, and it can lead to increased perspective.

Don't misunderstand me. I am absolutely delighted that Obama won, and I am NOT attacking him. What I am doing is simply describing the very considerable differences in basic core political philosophy between America and most of its allies (Israel excepted).

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 04:37 PM

SINSULL - shhh... don't remind people about the hunting season, let Obama take the credit for turning the economy around!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 04:39 PM

Little Hawk - I agree, it is good to see how others perceive us and I thank you for the article.   My point is, you still can't use the same labels in different countries. It is a linguistic difference, not political.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 04:43 PM

You don't suppose that the downward spiralling economy has people thinking guns might be a good investment has something to do with this?

I want to buy a gun but Jacqui and Kendall won't let me - thy watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 04:49 PM

Well, yes, the use of "socialism" as a deeply negative word in America is quite unusual in the world in general...but that does reflect deep differences in core philosophy between America and Canada (for example), differences which have been there ever since the late 1700s.

We both have a parliamentary democracy...arranged a bit differently in certain respects...yours is a republic. We both have an extensive Bill of Rights. We both are basically capitalist societies with a number of socialist institutions in place to handle public matters. But our core philosophies are founded on a very different psychological mindset, and have been right from the start.

And that is why our populations have different notions about who is on the "left" or the "right", politically speaking, and who is not.

Obama has to work with the card he's been dealt. It will be interesting to see how he handles it, and I hope he handles it very well indeed. He could become one of the truly great presidents. Let it be so!

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 04:52 PM

"The man is making change all over the country! I know you were not a fan of his, but I'm glad to see you've seen the error of your ways."


               Actually, Ron, now that Obama has been elected, my fortunes are tied to his ability to do the job, so I'm rooting for him. It was never that I disliked him, or even disagreed with his policy proposals. I had trouble trusting him mostly because of the way he presented himself.
               I hope I was wrong, but there's nothing to do now but to wait and see.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 04:56 PM

From the Democratic Debate on January 15, 2008, moderated by Tim Russert.

RUSSERT: Senator Obama, when you were in the state senate, you talked about licensing and registering gun owners. Would you do that as president?

OBAMA: I don't think that we can get that done. But what I do think we can do is to provide just some common-sense enforcement. One good example -- this is consistently blocked -- the efforts by law enforcement to obtain the information required to trace back guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers.

That's not something that the NRA has allowed to get through Congress. And, as president, I intend to make it happen.

But here's the broader context that I think is important for us to remember. We essentially have two realities, when it comes to guns, in this country. You've got the tradition of lawful gun ownership, that all of us saw, as we travel around rural parts of the country.

And it is very important for many Americans to be able to hunt, fish, take their kids out, teach them how to shoot.

And then you've got the reality of 34 Chicago public school students who get shot down on the streets of Chicago.

We can reconcile those two realities by making sure the Second Amendment is respected and that people are able to lawfully own guns, but that we also start cracking down on the kinds of abuses of firearms that we see on the streets.

Despite what some of you seem to think, there will be no movement to ban guns. One of the things O'bama (still can't help meself) successfully did was to not allow wedge issues to be used any longer. He, and most leading Dems, understand at long last that by using the issue of inner city crime as a reason for banning all guns simply drives off the most important part of the base in the Democratic Party, that being middle class folks. Someone above made the erroneous statement that the majority of folks in this country would support a gun ban, or something like that. In fact, most Americans are firmly in support of the right to keep and bear arms. Our President (elect) understands this. He understands we must deal with the problem of violence in poor urban areas, and that we must respect the rights of average citizens. Solve hopelessness and you will end most crime in urban environments. My guess is he will focus in economic areas almost exclusively, and we will see little attention paid to this, in spite of what the wackos believe.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Melissa
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 05:03 PM

stocking up on guns?

doesn't it seem like it would be more sensible to stock up on ammunition IF that was your mindset?

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 05:08 PM

Ammunition isn't tracked as well as firearms. There are places where you can buy thousands of rounds of ammunition, if you want a popular military caliber, and just have it delivered UPS, I think. At least I've seen it advertised that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 05:17 PM

Remember also that he was a professor of Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 05:17 PM

The right to arm bears I assume

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 05:18 PM

I have ammunition, enough to hunt with if it comes to that. Why would I need more?

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 05:23 PM

In case Shane decides to visit you?

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 05:36 PM

Rig, you appear not to have noticed the 'Obama - Fear is good for Economy'(or something like that) thread begun by your counterpart.

But I have no fear for you. I'm almost positive that you have more guns right now than you will ever need.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 05:56 PM

Ebbie - You continue to read unintended messages into my posts. I do not hoard guns; I was simply commenting on what was going on in the market right now.
                  I didn't know there was another thread, but thankyou for bringing it to my attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 06:23 PM

In regards to ammunition: Those of us with percussion black powder guns know that a thousand percussion caps fit in a 2 inch diameter less than 1/2 inch thick tin- I can fit tens of thousands of caps in a jacket pocket. The powder and bullets I can make myself.

And reloading cartridges is not that hard.



But then, it is not difficult to make a shotgun, either.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 06:41 PM

Yeah, that's the funny thing about it BB. There are gunsmiths and machinists all over the country (not to mention knowledgeable back yard tinkerers) who could make all kinds of guns if the market was right for it. Most of the designs that are in use today originated about the turn of the 20th century, so it's not rocket science.
                     And the kinds of guns that you're talking about would be even easier.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 06:44 PM

Most people nowadays are too lazy and disorganized to make their own powder and bullets. They want something they can buy ready-made and wrapped in plastic at WalMart.

That, however, would not stop the true aficionado, obviously.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 06:51 PM

The ones I've seen at WalMart are made out of plastic, not just wrapped in it.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 07:19 PM

One of the best ads we saw here in Western Colorado during the election, was a gentleman who said he was a lifelong member of the NRA and had hunted all of his life and was supporting Obama. He talked about gun rights and how Obama was for them. While I don't favour hunting or guns, it is ridiculous in the extreme to feel any threat about lawful gun ownership under Obama's leadership.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 07:38 PM

Well, I would agree, Kat. I think people must take their cues from talk radio and publications like "Guns and Ammo Magazine."
                The other thing is, the authorities are normally only interested in handguns and rapid-fire rifles. Somebody with an old turn-bolt aught-six or a shot gun shouldn't have too much to worry about.
                But look how they're reacting!

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 09:38 PM

In Oregon, where we are smart enough not to have a waiting period, gun sales have gone through the roof just since the election. So it ain't deer hunters.

               The following piece from channel 12 in Portland:




Ever since Barack Obama became the U.S. president-elect on Tuesday night, gun and ammo sales have gone way up all across the country, and gun sellers said the Portland area is no different.

The Beavercreek Armory owners said their sales have double since Election Day.

They said longtime gun owners are scared about the shift in power and are trying to stock up.

Joann Frazier made her usual sales pitch for potential gun buyers Friday, but she said she'd made it an unusually large number of times.

Since the election, she and her husband, David, said they can hardly keep up with demand.

"It's just an ebb and flow of business, usually. But sales have increased by 100 times," Joann Frazier said.

At one point Friday, Joann Frazier said 20 customers were packed inside their small store and all of the chatter was the same.

She said longtime gun owners are stocking up on new firearms and ammo because many of them see Obama as a threat to their rights.

"They're concerned. They're uncertain about what direction we're going. What direction the president-elect is going," Joann Frazier said.

Scott Levitt has been around guns since he was a child.

"The guns I have, I'll always have. I'm a Second Amendment believer," Levitt said.

And as a customer, he said even he's noticed an increased interest in people buying guns for the first time.

"I have some friends who've all gone out and done the rush – the mad buy. So it's a sign of the times," Levitt said.

As a store owner, Joann Frazier said she loves the wave of new business this week. But as a gun owner, she is worried about Obama's bigger picture.

"Without sounding terribly political, I do feel that some of our constitutional rights are at risk," Joann Frazier said.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 10:06 PM

These seem to be the "pry it from my cold dead hands" crowd. One of the women (a single mother of 3 boys) is buying a 20 gauge shotgun so that if she must she can hunt deer, rabbits, birds; she already has a .22 pistol. That's all she feels she'll need if things go really sour.

I make (from kits, but I could do it from scratch) black powder arms. To make your own powder and shot I refer you to Foxfire 5. The Poor Man's James Bond has a chapter on how to make a Sten gun in your home workshop; The Anarchist's Cookbook contains information on making silencers (both contain info on lots of other things). The are Other Sources of such information rather freely available (e.g., The Home Guard Manual).

But remember -- each of those people legally buying a gun now is also providing a paper trail which the BATF and the FBI can use to track them (and the weapon, as the serial number is also included). If they want an untraceable firearm it must have been in use prior to 1965 AND never sold since then through a gun store or in any other way come to the notice of the authorities. Such exist -- the .45 grandpa brought back from WW2 for example -- but they are NOT easily obtainable. Breaking in and stealing the contents of a gun shop is really dumb because the owners tend to have burglar alarms and surveillance cameras inside the shop and out. (Holding up a gun store is REALLY stupid and likely to prove fatal.)

Canadians -- ask how many unregistered guns are in the country, held by lawful Canadian citizens for lawful purposes. UKers -- how many unregistered guns are there there?

I'm not worried about those buying guns and leaving paper trails. I'm more concerned about the number of firearms which come into the US and other countries illegally, as part of the drug trade for example.

Obama has his plate far, far too full right now to worry about a non-problem like this.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 11:36 PM

"But remember -- each of those people legally buying a gun now is also providing a paper trail which the BATF and the FBI can use to track..."

                   That's absolutely right, and there should be nothing for these people to fear. It would only get nasty if these kinds of folks could not buy small arms of the kind you describe. We saw what happened with prohibition, and the war on drugs. If we engage in a "war on guns," I suspect we'd see the same kinds of results.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: kendall
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 01:41 AM

So, what is so smart about not having a waiting period?

These people who are so scared of losing their 2nd amendment right are jumping at shadows. Do they really think that one man, even the president, could take away that right? Silly. The NRA feeds on fear.

"There is nothing so scary as ignorance in action." (Goethe')

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 08:33 AM

The whole gun argument has been rendered ludicrous by the "slippery slope" mentality of both sides. The NRA types are so afraid of overregulation that they fight any attempt at regulation--even if it attempts to keep private citizens from purchasing nuclear weapons. And the anti-gun types are terrified that any that explicitly permit gun purchases of any kind will automatically lead to armed anarchy.

It's pretty clear that there are some people who should be kept away from guns. It would be nice if the question of "how" could be resolved in some rational manner.