Origins of 3-finger banjo style?

Subject: Origins of 3-finger banjo style?
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 May 02 - 02:22 PM

The recent bluegrass threads got me to thinking wondering about the Scruggs banjo style that holds it together--Though he is credited with creating the style, my recollection is that Snuffy Jenkins played (a less elaborate) 3-finger style well before him--curious about where that style came from, if there were other, earlier players--I am not a banjo picker, so forgive my ignorance in this area--

Subject: RE: Origins of 3-finger banjo style?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 07 May 02 - 02:32 PM

To oversimply,

Scruggs style is probably descended from the "guitar style" banjo playing of the 19th century. "Guitar style" here refers to finger picking. It is sometimes called "classical" banjo (talk about oxymoron). In urban areas it kind of replaced the 19th century minstrel "stroke style" which is probably the ancestor of modern clawhammer/frailing.

Subject: RE: Origins of 3-finger banjo style?
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 May 02 - 02:56 PM

Is this the earlier style that you mean? I Got A White Man Working for Me

Subject: RE: Origins of 3-finger banjo style?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 07 May 02 - 03:01 PM

M. Ted,

The blue clicky doesn't work for me.

By the way, it should have been "oversimplify."

Subject: RE: Origins of 3-finger banjo style?
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 May 02 - 03:04 PM

That doesn't seem to work--try this: Click here

Subject: RE: Origins of 3-finger banjo style?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 07 May 02 - 03:20 PM

Yes, Ossman's playing is one of the variants of the guitar style of banjo playing. You would have heard something more "refined" (perhaps Bach) in the parlor of a gentlewoman banjo player.

Subject: RE: Origins of 3-finger banjo style?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 07 May 02 - 03:33 PM

Hi Ted. All the old banjoists say that there was a "North Carolina" style which often used three fingers. The earliest one that's on a film is Smith Hammett. Scruggs and Jenkins sure knew about him, and of course the most famous was Charlie Poole.

The one undeniable fact is that no one played it with the fire of Scruggs. Don Reno came close, but he was more of a "chord" guy.

Wiley and Zeke Morris both said in recent interviews that Scruggs was fully formed when he was playin' with them...long before he joined Monroe.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: Origins of 3-finger banjo style?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 07 May 02 - 04:04 PM

I just read the Biography section of Earl Scruggs & The Five String Banjo. As a boy, Earl was exposed to several three finger banjo players, one of whom was Smith Hammett who Rick referred to. He tried very hard to emulate them, especially Hammett.

In the Book Bossmen, Monroe claimed that Earl's style wasn't fully developed when Earl joined the Bluegrass Boys, Monroe says that Earl developed some new rolls while with the Bluegrass boys and continued to develop after he left them.

Subject: RE: Origins of 3-finger banjo style?
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 07 May 02 - 06:50 PM

Didn't Bascom Lamar Lunsford and other North Carolinans play a three-finger arpeggio style? It was very gentle, but had a slight syncopation. I've heard Peggy Seeger use a similar three-finger argeggio to accompany her ballad singing, which is what Lunsord did.

Subject: RE: Origins of 3-finger banjo style?
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 07 May 02 - 07:09 PM

I guess what I'd like to know is when finger & thumb picks entered the picture? They're part of what gives Scruggs style the snap.

Does anyone know if Charlie Poole used them? The one cut I've heard him playing banjo, without fiddle or other lead instruments, - a fairly complex medley of 3 or 4 "southern tunes" - it almost sounded like he was using a flat pick.

Subject: RE: Origins of 3-finger banjo style?
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 May 02 - 07:50 PM

Interesting difference of opinion on Scruggs style--and, while we're at it, when and where did the 5th string get added?00

Subject: RE: Origins of 3-finger banjo style?
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 May 02 - 07:56 PM

Oh, and Hi! Rick!

Subject: RE: Origins of 3-finger banjo style?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 07 May 02 - 08:21 PM

There's very little documentantion about thumb and fingerpicks, when they came in and who used 'em. I don't think Charlie Poole did.....on the other hand the "single string" work he did, that Les mentions is MUCH easier with picks (he would have used the "thumb index" style rather than a flat pick)....

Anyone have any idea when "National" finger picks came in? Thumbpicks have been around for a lonnng time.

The fifth or "drone" string was around right at the beginning....very African.

Joel Sweeney was wrongly credited for years with the developement of the fifth string, but he may in fact have added the FOURTH (bass) string.

Steve, Bossmen was written a long time ago and since then a number of Scruggs' peers have acknowledged that he had picked exactly the same way since at least 1940. Although I doubt they'd have contradicted Monroe at the time....he DID scare a lotta folks.

An interesting picker to listen to is Junie Scruggs (Earl's brother) who recorded for Folkways in the fifties. Like Snuffy, he ammended his own style a bit when Earl became so popular.

One of the great albums to listen to is made up of radio cuts from The Grand Ol' Opry during Earl's first year with Monroe. People are actually SCREAMING when Earl plays...very much like the Beatles' reaction in the sixties. The announcer Grant Turner usually announces them as: "EARL and Bill...with that fancy banjo"...no mention of the rest of the band. I suspect Bill may have been a might ticked off, and it probably explains why he was SO mad when the band left him.

Rick

Subject: RE: Origins of 3-finger banjo style?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 07 May 02 - 08:23 PM

You could always try writing a letter to the man himself, care of his wife.

LOUISE SCRUGGS
PO Box 40313
NASHVILLE, TN 37204

Subject: RE: Origins of 3-finger banjo style?
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 07 May 02 - 08:59 PM

Rick - that was also my thought, that Charlie Poole may have been a forerunner to Don Reno, but it's just so hard to tell when you listen to those old records.

I think Poole also used some sort of modified C tuning, instead of the open G common to bluegrass. And that's another question - was that the common tuning when Scruggs came on the scene ?