BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs

Subject: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Peter T.
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 10:14 AM

According to the New York Times, AIG execs stand to make $100 million dollars in bonuses this year. The new director says that this is necessary (1) because they are contractually obligated (then why are they bonuses?); and (2) so that they can continue to attract "the best and the brightest" (clearly never read David Halberstam on Vietnam).

That all seems reasonable if you are delusional.......


yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Alice
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 11:23 AM

I'm watching a discussion of this on MSNBC right now.

If they want to retain their people who are the "best and the brightest", ... wait a minute... if they had the best and the brightest working for them, how did they get AIG into this mess?

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 11:39 AM

The wealthy still don't get it...

(But they never do, Boberdz...)

No, historically they always end up getting it... The hard way... Persoanlly, I'd rather not sede a repeat of history... Maybe Congress needs to step in and give Obama's Justice Department some reasonable laws to protect taxpayers from the Wall Street crooks... Oh, BTW, that also includes the SEC crooks who are in cahoots with the Wall Street crooks... How that came to pass is beyond me...

Yeah, me thinks that jail time is the alternative to armed revolution... Less messy and more human... Less costly, too... But if Congress won't act then, hey, the rip offs will continue...

"Sooner or later iot all comes down to money..." (Bruce Springsteen from "Big Muddy")

B~

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 11:42 AM

MAN! The government OWNS at least 36% of AIG! Don't that give them some say-so in who get what???? OWNS it! I mean, if I pay the piper don't I get to call the tune?

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 01:04 PM

I don't begin to understand why the head honchos are still in place. But then, I also don't understand why those same honchos get/got million dollar bonuses upon leaving when the company under their purview never registered a profit.

Alice in Wonderland- that's me.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 01:07 PM

Change places! Clean cups! Clean cups!

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: gnu
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 01:13 PM

Ahhh... just been corrected... it's $450M.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 02:53 PM

Hmmmm. It appears that my post disappeared. I posted a slightly smaller corrected figure, gnu. Came to a total of $220M. (165M plus 55M, I think)

"A white paper prepared by the company says that AIG is contractually obligated to pay a total of about $165 million of previously awarded "retention pay" to employees in this unit by Sunday, March 15. The document says that another $55 million in retention pay has already been distributed to about 400 AIG Finance Products employees."

As found here

Notice in the article it says in passing there will be more bonuses for 2009.

Maybe it means that the aforesaid CEOs are the only jpeople who fully understand how small a percentage of a billion dollars a million dollars is.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Peace
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 03:05 PM

"The wealthy still don't get it..."

That's the f##kin' problem. They KEEP getting it . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Peace
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 03:10 PM

"$100 million bonuses to AIG execs"

How does one spell obseen/obbsceen/obsceene ?

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: gnu
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 03:11 PM

And the poor keep getting....

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 03:15 PM

Peace, I like 'obbseen'.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Peace
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 03:29 PM

Thanks, Ebbie.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: pdq
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 03:34 PM

I like Seldom Scene.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: heric
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 03:44 PM

Our government is failing us by not nationalizing AIG outright. Remember, Liddy says he is going to pay all of us back in a couple of years, while losing money at almost half a million dollars per minute, 24/7.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Stringsinger
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 03:51 PM

I agree with Paul Krugman and Joseph Stiglitz. The US needs to nationalize the banks now.
Maybe not permanently but as FDR did for a while until they can reach solvency. It's
the only thing that makes sense to turn this economy around.

Also, institute regulations immediately. Paulson, A.I.G., et.al. have absconded with
taxpayer's funds. It's criminal. The so-called "moral hazard" has been effected.

The idea that there is a legal constraint on A.I.G. to pay bonuses and "retention awards"
to CEO's and investors is not only specious but shady. It blurs the line between A.I.G.
and Bernie Madoff.

Stringsinger

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: number 6
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 03:51 PM

"and (2) so that they can continue to attract "the best and the brightest"

AIG lost a record $62 billion in the fourth quarter of 2008.

so much for the best and the brightest.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 03:52 PM

♫ Nooooobody knows de trubble obscene...♫

"...contractually obligated (then why are they bonuses?"

Something like: 'If you show up 50% of days and have no prosecutable scandals in the previous 6 months, you get a bonus of twice your base salary.'

Only slightly facetious...

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Peace
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 03:57 PM

Don't PAY the bonuses and let the bastards sue.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: heric
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 04:12 PM

That would be entertaining all right. Or force it into bankruptcy and let the government pay off creditors of its choosing. But I'll bet the creditors' potential claims are a number far too scary to be revealed, never mind politically palatable. (Plus the federal acknowledgement/guaranty would have to be done fast to prevent total collapse.) I think they need to nationalize it and wind it down more slowly over a couple of years.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: pdq
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 04:46 PM

"American International Group, the world's largest insurance company and one of the 30 stocks in the Dow Jones Industrial Average, is having a liquidity crisis. One thing the firm does is insure bonds tied to the mortgage market, which leaves them on the hook when mortgage defaults increase."

All the financial problems we are having now are interconnected. They all stem from the bursting of the real estate bubble, primarily in over-priced California. There are nearly 40 million people trying to live in that one state and, for many years, the housing demand was more than the supply, a major reason for the high house prices.

Also, California was considered the #1 place to move by people around the world. Many did just that: moved to California.

Most of the financial and insurance institutions were just doing "business as usual". There was no other choice. Everyone knew that an adjustment would come but "when" and "how big" was not known.

BTW, the $220 million, when spread around to 400 people is about $550 thousand each. That will not get you 3rd string outfielder in major league baseball.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Peace
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 04:50 PM

Only a half million each? Poor guys . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Peace
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 04:55 PM

The median income for US households is about $50,000. So each of these people will receive 11 times the median income as a BONUS?

Freakin' spare me. Send me half that amount and I promise not to return to this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: pdq
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 05:00 PM

I would not give any of these 400 executives one red cent in bonus money.

That should also apply to any executives in any company which accepted even one dollar in taxpayer's "bailout" money.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Peace
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 05:08 PM

Man, this all get dirtier and dirtier, doesn't it?

I know you have worked hard for most your life, pdq, and I expect this kind of thing infuriates you. Man, dirtier and dirtier.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: pdq
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 05:36 PM

I may be "off topic", but the incompetence of the "bailout" and "stimulus" packages is worse than any thing these insurance executives have done.

My poor little state of Nevada needs only 1.5 billion to fund state government to the same level as last year. That means no raises, but it means all the teachers, firefighters, highway workers and such will still have jobs.

Instead of the feds giving us money to cover the shortfall, we are getting 1.2 billion and all of it must be used for make-work BS jobs. Yes, some of our quality state workrs will be fired and probably never return to their jobs, while we take untraind kids and have them stick new federally-funded flower pots on Main Street. This is BS.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: heric
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 05:40 PM

Slightly more than two years ago, I was talking to a guy who in casual conversation pointed up an amazing news tidbit about a trial judge on the east coast throwing out some creditor plaintiffs who were trying to foreclose in relation to a "securitized" mortgage instrument. The judge said come back if you show me your right to take possession of the property. I later found out the guy telling me the story worked for AIG.

I never read (<-present tense) about this anywhere. Did mortgage backed "securities" make mortgage loans unsecured?

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: gnu
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 05:54 PM

Peace... "Don't PAY the bonuses and let the bastards sue."

That is the reason THE bastards give for paying... to avoid breach of contract lawsuits. Now, don't that take the cake?

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: van lingle
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 06:22 PM

This is total Bullshit. I've emailed the Prez.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 06:44 PM

No, I guess the securities' holders (or their insurers, I guess) do ultimately end up in possession of the collateral. There's this from July, 2007:

"The local mortgage lender went bankrupt…the house was repossessed and sold for half the previous price. Then, rented out, its condition deteriorated. The paint flaked off. The concrete cracked. Possums moved in to the backyard.

And now, the proud owner is Bear Stearns (NYSE:BSC). The second biggest underwriter of mortgage-backed securities in the United States is rapidly becoming also a major owner of split-levels, neo-colonials, and Spanish-style bungalows. . . .

"Bear Stearns and its affiliates are listed as buyers of at least 53 homes so far this year in San Diego County, California, 48 in Maricopa County, Arizona, and 40 in Cuyahoga County, Ohio, according to a search of property records.

" . . . Merrill, the third-biggest securities firm by market value, and its mortgage unit, First Franklin, took possession of at least 87 homes this year in San Diego County, California. Citigroup and affiliates are the new owners of at least 47 homes in Clark County, Nevada."

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Slag
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 07:31 PM

Bonuses for WHAT????? When you give a contractor a bonus it's for meeting deadlines or exceeding deadlines. It's for accomplishing something above and beyond what would normally be expected. What did these Bozos accomplish? Driving the company into ruin? Man what a contract!! Such contracts should be illegal. They should be declared null and void, just on the face of the situation.

What about the contract with their stock holders? What about their contract with those they have "insured"? Shouldn't those contracts take precedence?

And MOST OF ALL why should the taxpayers, the rate payers, have to bear the weight of their criminal, fraudulent acts. And do NOT forget the SOBs in DC that helped make this all possible.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 08:05 PM

Don't forget the SOB in Texas.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Slag
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 08:10 PM

Top of the list. What a failure.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 08:38 PM

What a legacy.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Big Mick
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 09:07 PM

I am beyond rage.......

The first time one might assume that they thought business as usual, the American public won't notice......blablablabla

But now, after the private jets, the no accountability, the outrage expressed already .... to do this at this point in the emergency, means that this way beyond "absconding". This is big money flipping us all the bird, telling us to get fucked, and believing they are beyond the law. Classic "let them eat cake" mindset. As history has shown, the best way to deal with that mindset is to erect the "National Razor" in the plaza and rid ourselves of these vermin. I am not sure if there is a deep enough hole to use as a cell for them.

Mick.....
Who has never been so disgusted and feeling moved to radical thought in his entire life.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 10:04 PM

Conrad Black is in jail. Peter Pocklington may follow. Do you not have a jail for these bastards as well?

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Slag
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 11:48 PM

Let them eat greenbacks for the rest of their short sweet lives.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 11:51 PM

If these scumbags are "the best and the brightest," then we're in really deep doo-doo!

When does the next shuttle leave for Mars? This planet's had it!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: jacqui.c
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 07:48 AM

I agree with Mick - I am so disgusted I want to go after these guys myself. By contrast Marie Antoinette looks innocent.

I heard, last night on the TV, that these people, supposedly, are the only ones who know how this mess was created and are the only ones that can unravel it - a bit like having the bomb makers disarm the bomb.

I hope, somewhere along the line, that there will be some sort of payback if that is the case.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 10:57 AM

It seems to be the fruition of the American get rich quick dream.

The President can not legally abbrogate someone's business contract.

This kind of thing has been going on and growing in its absurdity for twenty years.

Yep its absurd.


Absurdity is the American way.


Absurdity in its extreme forms come from the mouths of people like Dick Cheney who said today the Bush administration is clearly not at fault in any way for the economic crisis. He said it is all the fault of Barack Obama and his good friends like Barney Franks and Pelosi.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 11:04 AM

Where's DougR's defense of these slobs? Is he asleep at the wheel?

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Stu
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 11:07 AM

This is the capitalist machine working exactly as it should do (that's why unregulated capitalism is crap).

"♫ Nooooobody knows de trubble obscene...♫"

Hey - how did you get those little notes?

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 11:17 AM

jacqui got it right.

All of the villains of history will now have to take a step down to a lower platform at the EVIL award ceremonies, to make room for Wall Street wizards.


"Thank you ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the EVIL award ceremonies"
Laser light show and orchestral fanfare fills the auditorium...
Marie Antoinette, Louis, please step down to these lower platforms to make make room for Bernie Madoff and his lovely wife."
"Lets have a round of applause for all our award winning CEOs.
to the tune of Miss America... Here they are, all our CEO's. Here they come, all the scum...

Please make room for The winners and still CEOs
and stand next to the CEO of Enron"
Bear Sterns, Lehman Bros. Goldman Sachs, AIG (big applause and hoots) Merill Lynch, Bank of America, Citi Group, ...(goes on for 20 minutes)
"No Mr. Hitler you don't have to step down, but we would like you to share your platform with Dick. Dick this is Adoolf, Adolf this is Dick."

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Wesley S
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 01:11 PM

The President will try to block the bonuses

CNN Story Here

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 01:25 PM

See, Obama IS a goddamned Commie Socialist!

Subject: BS: This makes me sick
From: Jayto
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 01:48 PM

All US taxpayers should see this. We just paid AIG another big fat bonus. $165 million to about 400 workers to be exact.

AIG bonus handed out over the weekend

transferred from a duplicate thread.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Jayto
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 02:00 PM

oops I missed that lol.

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 05:03 PM

While AIG has been getting most of the headlines, and is "resisting" meaningful replies to questions from both the Federal Government and the NY state Attorney General on grounds that they're "just complying with the contracts," Atty Gen Cuomo has also demanded similar accounting from Merrill Lynch regarding their similar bonuses.

Merrill Lynch says they're willing to provide the information if they're allowed to redact the names of those receiving the bonuses "due to privacy issues," and have demanded permission to remove the names before providing the information - or a court order prohibiting the Atty Gen from revealing them.

They believe that some recipients "might be embarrassed."

Now why would they be embarrassed?

John

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: DougR
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 06:48 PM

Alice: if you are relying on MSNBC to provide objective political reporting, I question that you are getting the "straight" story. Even CNN, I believe, is more objective.

It seems to me the problem might be that whoever drafted the document providing "bail-out" money to AIG, "they" did not stipulate that the federal money could not be used for such purposes (bonuses to folks who caused the problem in the first place).

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: $100 million bonuses to AIG execs
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 07:07 PM

Question: ... whoever drafted the document providing "bail-out" money to AIG,

Answer: BuShite Republicans.