BS: Sarah Palin Bailout Date Contest???

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin Bailout Date Contest???
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 12:00 PM

Why would people who feel they were victimized by affirmative action be less likely to vote for Obama than for the ticket that includes Palin?

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin Bailout Date Contest???
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 12:42 PM

Like I said earlier, this is a bad subject for this thread--it deserves a thread of its own.

                     But to answer your question, Carol, I think the pool of victims of reverse-discrimination by government for gender is much smaller than the pool of victims for race and ethnicity.
                     The most recent court cases that I'm aware of have been white women obtaining judgements against governmental agencies for advancing minority women ahead of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin Bailout Date Contest???
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 12:50 PM

A 'victim' is likely to be one who thinks he/she did not get preferential treatment for themselves. If there are 12 applicants & 4 positions, there has to be some attempt to seek a fair & balanced process. IF the former process favored one group, some of them are OBVIOUSLY gonna be grumpy if the newer process (affirmative action) lowers their chances. This ain't necessarily a bad thing.

It's hard to design an affirmative action program that is absolutely and totally fair, but otherwise on class gets shafted...(just as it is hard to set up unions to be totally fair...but without them, workers often get shafted)

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin Bailout Date Contest???
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 01:09 PM

Where I see creating diversity, you see "reverse discrimination", Rigs... I don't see affirmative action as discrimination at all... I know that is a square peg and round hole scenerio for you because of years of the right wing pounding out talking points as if there was any substance to them...

Oh, I'll admit that the righties have over the years done a real nice hatchet job on affirmative action just as they have done against the term liberal... But that's about it... Demonizing good stuff with rhetorical slogans does not make good stuff bad... Just demonized...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin Bailout Date Contest???
From: TIA
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 01:09 PM

I'm interested to know where you get your "recent court cases" Rig. From the EEOC website, all equal pay act cases involve women vs. men (with no mention of race). I know this doesn't exactly address your assertion, so I would really appreciate a citation for any case involving a white woman suing someone because a black woman was unfairly advanced.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin Bailout Date Contest???
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 01:19 PM

Bobert,

Ideally, affirmative action would "level the playing field". However, as implemented in the real world, it is neither fair nor effective.

The company I was formerly in had a period when it would not hire or promote any individual- except women and minorities. This lasted about 18 months.

As performed in the real world, one could never know if a person who was under an affirmative action program was qualified- the program was seen as a "These folks aren't good enough to get the job with competition, so we will give some percentage of the jobs to them regardless." I understand that it is * supposed * to be the selection of minorities that are qualified, but the real implementation was to select any minority, regardless of qualification.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin Bailout Date Contest???
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 02:05 PM

Okay, TIA, here's one, though these are men. The two I recall were women, but I don't have time to look for them now.




SUMMARY:
Former Philadelphia School District Employees Win $2.96 Million
"Reverse" Race Discrimination Verdict

Philadelphia, PA (Dec. 20, 2005) -- After battling for equal rights for almost three years, four white men, all of them former purchasing managers of the School District of Philadelphia, won vindication and a $2.96 million verdict on claims of "reverse" race discrimination and retaliation in a jury verdict entered in federal court today.

          The verdict -- believed to be one of the largest "reverse" discrimination awards ever in Pennsylvania -- was a resounding rejection of claims by the School District and its Chief Procurement Officer Kimberly Sangster, also a defendant, that the terminations were due to business reasons and not race discrimination.
          Three of the four plaintiffs - Robert Johnston of Philadelphia, Jack Zubris of Holland, Pa., and Edward Pilosi of Bala Cynwyd -- also will be reinstated to comparable jobs at the School District, pursuant to an order entered today by Judge Harvey Bartle III of the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania.
Phila Schools Index:
* Summary
News: Philly Inquirer 12-20-05
News: Law.Com 12-21-05
Lawyer for Plaintiffs
TABLE: Amount of Award



The fourth plaintiff, Peter Bracchi, formerly of Philadelphia, has moved to Florida and was awarded front pay of $243,000, instead of reinstatement.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin Bailout Date Contest???
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 04:14 PM

It sounds as if the company you worked for4 didn't understand affirmative actiion either, Rigs... Sounds like pure discrimination to me...

BTW, there was at least one Supreme Court rukling in the last year or so related to pay discrimination, i.e. same job done by different sexes... The woman in the case was sueing because she learned well after the fact (like a couple years) that her male counterparts had been paid more... The Supremes told her "Tough beans, Baby... You should have known the men were making more and now it's been too long since you left the job for discrimination to be considered..." That was the crux of it even though the management of the company had a policy of not allowing employees to know what each other made...

Sounds like a purdy stinky ruling to me...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin Bailout Date Contest???
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 04:21 PM

Bobert - It didn't have anything to do with where I was working. My experiences came from when I was in business in California. I was simply trying to come up with an example that TIA asked for.

               And I agree, the Supreme Court can come up with some gut-wrenching decisions sometimes.