Origins: Cantiga de Villancico, anyone?

Subject: Origins: Cantiga de Villancico, anyone?
From: GUEST,MichiMusic
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 09:16 AM

Hi all -
My smartest musician friends have referred me here, so I ask for your help.

Is this 'really' a traditional tune or does it belong to someone?

"Cantiga de Villancico" - instrumental tune, performed in G Dorian. I have the notes written out by hand, but I don't know where they came from or how to post them here.

As performed, it's about 120 beats per minute (to the quarter note).
There are no words, which seems strange for a Villancico.

One of my friends thinks it was written by Loreena McKennitt, but I can't find the reference. Google finds only one post in Spanish that says it's actually written by Enya.

Help?

Here's who I am: me

Subject: RE: Origins: Cantiga de Villancico, anyone?
From: GUEST,Jack Campin (cookieless)
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 01:30 PM

"Cantiga" and "villancico" are genres, not titles. There are thousands of each, and G dorian is one of the commonest keys for early Spanish music.

Maybe you could put some of it into ABC? Or scan it and put it on your website?

Subject: RE: Origins: Cantiga de Villancico, anyone?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 02:13 PM

Where did you get the tune? That might help as well.

As Jack Campin notes, they are genres, so your title doesn't make sense.
Cantiga- a poetical composition divided into strophes, after each follows a refrain.
Villancico- a metric composition sung in churches on certain festivals; a Christmas carol.

The above are the basic definitions in Velasquez, but some composers stretched the definitions.
Having formed a liking for older Spanish and Latin American music, I have many villancicos and cantigas on disc, by Jordi Savall and Hesperion XX and XXI, and others, baroque and older.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cantiga de Villancico, anyone?
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 02:26 PM

If you follow her link, she's got an mp3 of it available HERE. Well, at least something called Villancico.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cantiga de Villancico, anyone?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 06:15 PM

I have many villancicos and cantigas on disc, by Jordi Savall and Hesperion XX and XXI

Respect!

Subject: RE: Origins: Cantiga de Villancico, anyone?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 06:25 PM

"something called" is right! Well, it is a 'composition.'

Also an instrumental called Cantiga 281.
www.acousticbylines.com/Music/djypsygrass-cantiga281.mp3

To me, there is little that is Spanish or Sephardic about those tunes.
Djypsy Grass is a female duo, base and violin, who play a variety of stuff

Subject: RE: Origins: Cantiga de Villancico, anyone?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 07:30 PM

Djypsy Grass is an accomplished duo. My remarks on the two tunes brought up in this thread have to do with the names only, not the quality of their work.

Thanks for the youtube references. I didn't know so much of Savall's work was there. Incidentally, Monserrat Figueras is his wife and Ariana a daughter; both came up on the youtube link.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cantiga de Villancico, anyone?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 04:54 AM

There's also a son, Ferran, who brings more pop sensibilities to his vocal stylings as well as playing lute & guitar. They did a beautiful family CD (Du Temps & de l'Instant) a couple of years back featuring the four of them (the ensemble completed by the ubiquitous Pedro Estevan) & Ferran features on other Alia Vox recordings, notably Lachrimae de Caravagio.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cantiga de Villancico, anyone?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 07:06 AM

Excellent fiddling in that mp3, but there's more arrangement than tune, so not a lot of point in working out what the original might have been. (I didn't see much point in the vocal bit).

Subject: RE: Origins: Cantiga de Villancico, anyone?
From: michimusic
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 10:28 AM

Hi all-
wow, great comments, thanks!

Yes, I'm looking for the origins of the tune that I recorded as "Villancico" with DjypsyGrass.

In the clip, the tune is unchanged and played straight through for the first 20 seconds, and again at about :40 and at about 1:30

The form of the tune is AABB and then F Major chord begins an improv section.

So this isn't ringing any bells with anyone, huh?

Subject: RE: Origins: Cantiga de Villancico, anyone?
From: michimusic
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 10:29 AM

oh yes - and it's actually really good that it doesn't sound Spanish to you - I"m trying to use it now in an Eastern European project. Any reasons why I couldn't?

Subject: RE: Origins: Cantiga de Villancico, anyone?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 03:47 AM

Hurry & catch this proms radio concert on BBCi of Ortiz, Marais, Sanz & Hume by Jordi Savall & Rolf Lislevand

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00d0p99/

Subject: RE: Origins: Cantiga de Villancico, anyone?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 01:51 PM

Fantastic playing!
Thanks for the link.

Lislevand played music of Jose Marin, on the baroque guitar, with the singing of Monserrat Figueras on the cd "Tonos Humanos" (AliaVox). So many good baroque composers, the music of many of them little recorded.

Michimusic- yes, I felt something eastern in the tunes. The music of the area of the Ottoman Empire also is little recorded; the small bits I have heard I am sure are unrepresentative of the variety and complexity.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cantiga de Villancico, anyone?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 02:34 PM

Tonos Humanos - a fine piece of work; we saw them a few years back at the York Early Music Festival in the choir of the Minster - a highpoint was No Piense Menguilla Ya with Pedro doing the doppler on the bell waving it around his head.

Anyone catch the Radio 3 broadcast? I didn't unfortunately & would love to hear it!

Same goes for their Glasgow gig in May 1999; I was there, but didn't get a chance to record the broadcast because it went out live...

Subject: RE: Origins: Cantiga de Villancico, anyone?
From: michimusic
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 04:30 PM

Thanks for the great links. I see I have some studying to do.

I think I'm going to call this arrangement my own -
and give it a new name. Going on the Galicia-Halichyna connection, it'll be something Celtic and Slavic, and maybe a little bit roma.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cantiga de Villancico, anyone?
From: michimusic
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:41 PM

Solved!

I had the name wrong.
It is a villancico, and Loreena McKennit recorded it on her album "The Mask & The Mirror"
http://www.last.fm/music/Loreena+McKennitt/+videos/+1-s1AcESk7JBA

According to her liner notes she learned it from a CD herself.
Also a Portuguese friend recognized it as a Christmas song.
So I"m going with it.
Thanks, all!