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BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: r.padgett Date: 22 Jun 26 - 07:10 AM hi Dick It is not a good idea to rely on Trump's US defence force indeed he has already set his sights on Greenland and other places As I have said before Russian subs have been seen in UK waters too Nor should we rely on Nato and European countries for OUR defence either cannot trust everyone in this day and age I fear Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: r.padgett Date: 22 Jun 26 - 07:14 AM Yes Starmer has resigned as Leader and Andy Burnham on the train from Greater Manchester to take his place at Westminster as an MP Wes Streeting not to contest Leadership ~ but hope AB will give him a good Ministerial position! Interesting times Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 22 Jun 26 - 09:35 AM Obviously those who run the internet never expected him to last. Usually spell-checker will ignore 'proper nouns' spelt with an initial capital. Starmer's name still comes up underlined in red for checking. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 22 Jun 26 - 11:47 AM *Agree*, BwM. Starmer's main sin was that he wasn't Farridge: he was a good man trying to do a proper job after fourteen years of Tory misrule, under the baleful glare and incessant yapping of the Daily Heil and other members of the Tufton Street gang. I've been on the receiving end of just such bullying, when whatever I did was loudly deemed wrong. What annoyed Herself about the initial coverage (on all the new channels we could get to) was the the unceasing vamp-till-ready noise of reporters interviewing each other (*bzzt* "Repetition!"), when she was wanting to hear the details of the hot-weather warning being uprated from amber to red. --- Bugger: it's just been announced that the summit that was supposed to take place with the EU about the Brexit reset has been "suspended", whateverTF that means. That's another thing I will never be able to forgive the Tufties for. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 22 Jun 26 - 11:58 AM I have said many times on here that I am no fan of Starmer. I believe he has led the party much to far to the right and he cocked up big time with his false promises but, in fairness, I think he has done some good and whoever inherits the job is starting from a much firmer base. I also think that he is quite a statesman on the world stage and I hope that whoever takes the helm will utilise Starmer's skills at building bridges with Europe and (diplomatically) telling turnip to fuck off. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 22 Jun 26 - 03:04 PM When Rishi Sunak replaced Liz Truss, Andy Burnham was calling for a General Election. Has his viewpoint changed? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: r.padgett Date: 22 Jun 26 - 11:47 PM little t says Starmer's policy, that is a move away from oil was his (Starmer's) downfall, well he would now wouldn't he! Zero carbon and wind and water and sun energy away from dependence on oil is imv correct Trump's Us is toxic in more ways than one Yes UK needs to respect US but little t is another matter UK must stand on its own two feet and the mess caused by Tory mis rule and fiddle left the man in the street with the bill ~ so AB will need to rob the rich somewhere ~ investment funds seem possible? Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: The Sandman Date: 23 Jun 26 - 01:19 AM the thought that the uk needs to be protected from Russia is laughable imo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: The Sandman Date: 23 Jun 26 - 01:35 AM Ray Russia holds one of the largest oil reserves in the world. Russian oil reserves are estimated at 31.5 billion tons of crude oil and 3.7 billion tons of gas condensate as of 30.06. 2025.Russia holds the world's largest proven natural gas reserves, estimated at over 67 trillion cubic meters, and possesses roughly 58 billion barrels of proven crude oil reserve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 23 Jun 26 - 04:23 AM I suspect Andy Burnham may just be bowing to tradition, Nigel Theresa May replaced David Cameron July 2016 General election called June 2017 Boris Johnson replaced Theresa May July 2017 General election called December 2019 Liz Truss replaced Boris Johnson September 2022 Rishi Sunak replaced Liz Truss October 2022 General election called July 2024 So, 4 Tory prime ministers were appointed without calling an immediate election. I never commented or complained about any of those because that is the way British democracy works. We do not elect prime ministers, we elect a government that appoints a prime minister. You never complained about any of those. The Daily Heil or Torygraph never complained about any of those. Did Andy Burnham only comment on one of them? If so, I think he was being very restrained :-D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 23 Jun 26 - 06:01 AM I'm not complaining about this either. Just pointing out an inconsistency from Burnham. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Backwoodsman Date: 23 Jun 26 - 06:24 AM Yours is a very reasonable and sensible viewpoint, Dave, and I agree completely. One of the things that have got right up my nose in recent years is the media’s drive towards presenting our GE’s as almost ‘Presidential’ in character. Completely wrong, and playing right into the hands of those who would undermine, not only our system, but also our nation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Backwoodsman Date: 23 Jun 26 - 06:26 AM One of the things that HAS got right up my nose… Just correcting my own grammatical error before a nit-picker jumps in! ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 23 Jun 26 - 07:19 AM If inconsistent is all he is, Nigel, I will take that over lying, cheating, useless or corrupt any day :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 23 Jun 26 - 07:55 AM Yes, time will tell whether he is better than Starmer. Assuming he gets the job. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: r.padgett Date: 23 Jun 26 - 11:53 AM Well UK doesn't want Russian oil but Europe and UK does need to protect itself and any dependencies that an aggressive Russia might fancy taking and the same with US who is displaying unfriendly messages Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: The Sandman Date: 24 Jun 26 - 02:09 AM Russia has been invaded more by other nations including the UK, Than the other way around. Whattwas England doing invading the Crimea? THE usa and china spent more on armaments than Russia British and English forces have historically invaded or established a military presence in nearly 90% of the world's countries. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Backwoodsman Date: 24 Jun 26 - 03:38 AM The evidence of the past ten years is that the USA presents by far the greatest threat to world political and economic stability. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: The Sandman Date: 24 Jun 26 - 01:42 PM well said, I think there is a major ecoonmic recession coming in the next few months |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: r.padgett Date: 25 Jun 26 - 10:52 AM Trump's US has overstretched itself imv and will suffer in a number of of areas from his dictatorial methods Let us hope US has good presidential candidates who know what is needed and can plan US turn round ~ gawd 'elp the US little t has left a awful mess through his unnecessary war and inability to restrain Netanyahu Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Jun 26 - 11:50 AM To say nothing of his "executive orders" to trash government agencies and how money is managed. The justice system is a hit squad and the supreme court is a rubber stamp. A LOT of work ahead. Unfortunately, the Farage influence in the UK is like the Trump/Miller/Vaught influence here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Backwoodsman Date: 25 Jun 26 - 12:10 PM We are only permitted ONE UK Politics thread - could we stick to UK politics here, and keep Trump to the appropriate ‘Drumpf’ thread please? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: r.padgett Date: 26 Jun 26 - 02:52 AM Yes UK ~ Burnham being lined up for new Labour Leader/PM ~ his main difficulty like the previous 7 in 10 years is where does the Money come from to finance the owed monies? and expand the economy, what of the plight of Welfare and cutting payments to the needy who will of course die Is taxation the answer? No one has come up with the acceptable answers or plans yet So as usual the poor taxpayer will be hit and of course ABs popularity will drop ~ he may try to tough it out but people have had enough of this ~ so look at the big sources of finance ~ do we want to borrow for the future and incur higher debt? Answers on a post card to no 10 then, eh Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 Jun 26 - 04:27 AM So as usual the poor taxpayer will be hit Maybe the rich taxpayer will be hit instead! If the higher rate of tax went up and the loopholes that allow tax avoidance were closed they may start to close the gap between rich and poor and add funds to the coffers at the same time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: r.padgett Date: 27 Jun 26 - 02:47 PM Talk of devolution to the UK counties ~ not a good idea imv We are not set up with the Governmental machinery or even the cleverness of Local Authority councillors ~such local taxation likely to be met with fierce opposition Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 27 Jun 26 - 05:15 PM Ray: Yes UK ~ Burnham being lined up for new Labour Leader/PM ~ his main difficulty like the previous 7 in 10 years is I believe that the oft quoted 7 PMs in 10 years is intended to include Burnham. But (no matter how many times you read it) it's false anyway. Cameron 'jumped ship' on July 13th 2016. Unless Burnham is in place by the same date this year, it will NOT be 7 in ten tears. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: r.padgett Date: 28 Jun 26 - 03:09 AM Nigel well no, simply the 7 is a matter of fact imv ~ the difficulty I am trying to say is that shortage of money and policies and strategies installed have favoured the rich and that is quite apart from immigration Immigration is an issue WE (UK)alone should not be having ~ complex issues where people are looking for a safe haven rightly or wrongly and WE are seen as a country to come to and the other countries in between are happy to ignore and chaperon them through ~ it is a World issue and we are end of the line ~ Farage and his merry men have latched on to a difficult political UK problem quire unfairly imv I have no answers UK has been stitched up literally by leaders working hard for their supporters and finding the electorate and own MPs not satisfied over the years Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 28 Jun 26 - 07:53 AM The number of PMs is, in my opinion, a result of politics becoming a reality show instead of about policy and good governance. As I mentioned before, we do not elect PMs in this country but the media seem to have decided that if a PM is unpopular, they have to go. Sad that some people are so easily wound up :-( |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: r.padgett Date: 29 Jun 26 - 01:17 AM The reality will tell over time ~ is Burnham the Messiah ~ who knows Rau |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 29 Jun 26 - 11:49 AM Interesting article in The Register: Digital ID brain trust will meet behind closed doors as minister ducks cost questions Minutes will not be published, and MPs still have no answer on the group's budget or how its members were chosen .... Follow the link; it bears reading in full. It drew the following forecast from commentard "elsergiovolador":
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Monique Date: 29 Jun 26 - 02:07 PM The link doesn't work (a part of the url is missing). It's LINK. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 30 Jun 26 - 05:59 AM Ray: "Nigel well no, simply the 7 is a matter of fact imv ". it is either 'a matter of fact', which I have clearly pointed out is NOT the case, or it is 'in your view' which is just another way of saying 'a misguided opinion'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 30 Jun 26 - 12:08 PM Thanks for the fix, Monique: I noticed the clipping of the subject, but not of the URL. Argh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: r.padgett Date: 01 Jul 26 - 01:22 AM Nigel you have left me bemused ~ what is the main point in the postings ? the 7 please correct and stop arguing on senseless trivia ~ I can take it and opinion is opinion but little t and Putin are the enemies ~ postings to mudcat do not need to be "bitter" follow the etiquette I am you "comrade" in the end |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: r.padgett Date: 01 Jul 26 - 01:29 AM Burnham assuming his Leadership and PM role intends to have a No 10 in Greater Manchester ~ we will see how that goes! Too expensive to have a General Election and risky due to the New parties Sir Keir ~ £Bs in armaments not all "fully funded" defence spending to be brought up to date due to Tory mismanagement and trump stamping his feet Costly but work for the armament industry in UK one assumes Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: r.padgett Date: 01 Jul 26 - 01:41 AM Yes Nigel I have rechecked the 7 ~ I did before too ~my reference is The Times and simply says 7 and lists them all including Burnham which may be correct in time ~ but so what ~ no don't start please! The point for me is that UK is short of money and of ways to get that except through taxation of thee and me Always a good idea to start wi nowt!! Tories have mismanaged and fiddled the economy for year 14 plus ~ effects still in progress of course Nationalisation has plus and minus points and cost of a ticket to ride? Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 01 Jul 26 - 04:01 AM Yes Nigel I have rechecked the 7 ~ I did before too ~my reference is The Times and simply says 7 and lists them all including Burnham which may be correct in time Unfortunately even "The Times" is not infallible: David Cameron (Conservative): May 11, 2010 – July 13, 2016 Theresa May (Conservative): July 13, 2016 – July 24, 2019 Boris Johnson (Conservative): July 24, 2019 – September 6, 2022 Liz Truss (Conservative): September 6, 2022 – October 25, 2022 Rishi Sunak (Conservative): October 25, 2022 – July 5, 2024 Keir Starmer (Labour): July 5, 2024 – Next Prime Minister (possibly Burnham) will not be appointed until (at the earliest) July 17/18, later if there is a contest for Leader of the Labour Party. If from the above (checked) information you can identify a period of 10 years in which there have been (or will have been) 7 Prime Ministers, feel free to say so. Otherwise accept that you have been wrongly informed, and stop repeating 'Fake news' The next opportunity for there to have been 7 PMs in 10 years is if the incoming PM is replaced before 25th July 2029, which is possible, although the next general election must be called by August 2029. If my information proves to be incorrect, I will, of course, admit the fact. But I don't expect to need to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: r.padgett Date: 01 Jul 26 - 06:39 AM Nigel you have missed the point ~ Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Doug Chadwick Date: 01 Jul 26 - 08:55 AM This is getting boring. It's no wonder that we are restricted to one UK politics thread at a time. DC |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Rain Dog Date: 01 Jul 26 - 11:03 AM "Sir Keir ~ £Bs in armaments not all "fully funded" defence spending to be brought up to date due to Tory mismanagement and trump stamping his feet." The one thing i can agree with Trump on is that Europe has not contributed enough to its own defence. Why should America being paying more. Every single UK Government for the last 50 or 60 years has under invested in defence spending. It is the nature of the beast. If you want more investment in nationalised industries you need more money. How many people would vote for a party that wants to raise taxes? The majority are happy for taxes to be raised as long as someone else is paying them. I speak as someone who had to pay tax on my state pension last tax year. Will have to pay it again this year.Those are the facts of life. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: r.padgett Date: 02 Jul 26 - 12:33 PM Rain Dog ~yes agreed ~ McSweeney has owned up that no plans for incoming Labour Govt had been properly prepared as to where taxes and Govt income was to come from had been made So Our Rach ends up taxing by not raising Free pay allowances again, removing weather payments and increasing NICs on low paid all a sign of desperation imv all good voter plans ~ NOT and still talk from all quarter of taking welfare payments off as the bill is too high! Do we live in USA? yea gods So Head lines will be Welfare benefits taken off needy " Eat or Heat deaths triple" maybe? Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: r.padgett Date: 02 Jul 26 - 12:35 PM Farage hits a media barrage on tv ~ his funding comes into question ~ like US should billionaires and such be permitted to influence politics? Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 03 Jul 26 - 09:21 AM If you want more investment in nationalised industries you need more money. How many people would vote for a party that wants to raise taxes? Not strictly true, Raindog. There is a changeover period when the current owners of the industry are paid off but after that initial purchase, the idea is that the profits made from that industry are ploughed back into the government coffers rather than into the hands of the rich few. The problem we have in this country is that when the power companies, railways, buses, etc. were nationalised, us taxpayers did foot the bill. Then the money grubbers of the Thatcher era decided it would be a good idea to sell of those industries, that we had already paid for, to line their own pockets and those of their friends. I have no idea whether the nationalised industries would have, by now, started to pay for a huge amount of government spending. Simply because they were not allowed long enough to prove anything before they were sold off again! As to voting for a party that would raise taxes. Well, yes, I would but only if I could see those taxes being put to good use. I would not be happy for this administration to raise the tax bill to buy the railways and water companies and then the next lot to sell them off again. It would be a good way of redistributing wealth the wrong way! Raise taxes on high earners and close loopholes to pay for renationalisation. Then, as the profits begin to roll in, drop the tax bills. It is investing in the future which, surely, the people with all the money can see the sense of. Can't they? :-D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: r.padgett Date: 04 Jul 26 - 11:37 PM Nationalisation means we the UK taxpayer pays for the ill gotten gains paid to the capitalist owners such as in Thames Water, where by some jiggery pokery they avoided cleaning water and sewage but managed to pay dividends and such to private equity owners ~ so now we Nationalise and continue the circle The MT era model would only work is it had been properly overseen ~ you know who and what is to blame Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: r.padgett Date: 06 Jul 26 - 04:14 PM I have some difficulty with wanting out and out Nationalisation as you will see from the above postings I hate that we would pay for the ill doings of the architects of the model abused by the Tories to pay unearned dividends for not doing the water cleaning jobs; some ones heads should have rolled by know and as you know fining is and was self defeating What a stich up Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: r.padgett Date: 07 Jul 26 - 11:40 AM So Farage resigns as MP and forces a Bye Election ~ the media and other pressures have got to him and wishes for re election by his constituents to reinforce his standing as an MP ~ for his party too W will see, a brave move Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Backwoodsman Date: 07 Jul 26 - 11:55 AM He’s trying to dodge investigations into his finances, nothing more, nothing less. When he bleats, “I’ve done nothing wrong!” the one thing you can be sure of is that he has done wrong. A grifter and a fascist rabble rouser, unfit to be a Member of the Mother of Parliaments. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Backwoodsman Date: 07 Jul 26 - 12:10 PM “I am the most physically and verbally attacked public figure or politician of modern times - milk shakes all over me!” I think Jo Cox’s family might have something to say about that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 07 Jul 26 - 04:19 PM “I am the most physically and verbally attacked public figure or politician of modern times - milk shakes all over me!” I think Jo Cox’s family might have something to say about that. I think he may be right, depending on your use of language. "Most" He may well have been subject to the most (greatest number) of physical and verbal attacks. Jo Cox, meanwhile, was subject to the 'most serious' attack. And, with regard to the Clacton by-election, BBC news tea-time stated that all the other (major) parties have said they would not stand against him. Strange how they were all willing to contest Makerfield when Labour forced a by-election. Are the other parties suddenly taking a 'principled stand'? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5 From: Backwoodsman Date: 07 Jul 26 - 04:55 PM Perhaps they are taking a ‘principled stand by not aiding and abetting him in a dodge to avoid scrutiny of his financial chicanery? |
