BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 08 Jun 26 - 02:18 AM

Nil employee private pension schemes generally would be Staff schemes as a employee perk; Workers nil contributions would be hard to contemplate and generally the employer paid twice what the employee paid so typically EE 5% and ER 10% ~ the automatic workplace pension schemes have/had very low "introductory" contributions ~I am no expert on the set up btw ~ but seem to be likely to change in the future due to cost

Ray

Employment is key too and NIRP pensions for not in employment career is problematic ~ setting one rate only? Could be looked at and variable rates or means tested? mm

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Jun 26 - 03:19 AM

If AI replaces jobs there will be less tax to pay for any kind of pensions, and less people with money, means stagnation of the consumer economy. But do the very rich care who control the consumer society care?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jun 26 - 07:42 AM

”Nil employee private pension schemes generally would be Staff schemes as a employee perk; Workers nil contributions would be hard to contemplate and generally the employer paid twice what the employee paid so typically EE 5% and ER 10% “

The scheme of which I was the administrator for the last thirteen years of my working life was not a staff ‘perk’, it was open to all employees - both staff and manual workforce. The base level of 0% employee and 5% employer - basically a contribution-free scheme - applied to all employees who chose to join the scheme.

For every 1% the employee elected to pay, the employer paid an extra 1% over and above the basic 5%, up to a limit of 10%. There was no upper limit to the employee contribution - as an example, my wife (who also worked for the same company as me until April of this year) contributed 12% and the company contributed 10%.

The Scheme in question is effectively a private pension scheme with one of the UK’s largest insurers/pension providers, so the problem of the company itself having access to scheme funds, e.g. as occurred with the infamous Maxwell scheme, doesn’t exist. The only danger would arise if the provider’s business got into difficulties or, as in the case of Equitable Life (?), failed.

Of course, pension schemes are just one way employees can save for their retirement but, although they can have disadvantages, they also have major advantages.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 09 Jun 26 - 01:10 AM

Yes yes pension schemes depend on the amount paid in by employees and employers and the pension guarantee as per booklet/rules as set out ~

staff non contributory perk probably an historic situation and employers wishing to improve pension provision would seek to include and improve pension benefits by asking for ees contribution

So small contributions could be a barrier to large pensions on retirement ~ for example annuities are very expensive to buy

Actuaries are vital in my view to advise pension companies and work place companies

Yes pension funds should and as far as I know are separate entities with trustees and can be insured schemes with trusted company reputation or underpinned by separate funds and subject to valuation

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jun 26 - 02:43 AM

You seem to have missed the the point I’ve been making in my last few posts, which is that, based on the premise that the State Pension is too low (the UK being a poor 13th in the ‘league-table’ of European countries’ State Pensions), it seems very odd that employees, especially the lower-paid ones who might find it a financial burden to pay contributions themselves, would refuse to take part in a pension scheme which would cost them absolutely nothing, but which would provide a ‘top-up’ - modest, but better than nothing - to their income from whatever source(s) when they eventually retire.

What I was actually trying to discuss was not the structures, advantages, and disadvantages of various types of pension schemes, but the kind of mindset that makes someone reject an offer of ‘something for nothing’, be it suspicion, distrust, dislike of their employer(s) or, perhaps, simply an attitude of “Retirement is a long way off in the future, I’m living in ‘the now’, let the future take care of itself”?

Any thoughts on that, anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Jun 26 - 04:05 AM

perhaps they have been made suspicious by the antics of Maxwell and others?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Jun 26 - 04:12 AM

Mandleson being used by media, to destabilise Starmer

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 09 Jun 26 - 04:30 AM

..... or, perhaps, simply an attitude of “Retirement is a long way off in the future, I’m living in ‘the now’, let the future take care of itself”?

I think you have your answer right there.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jun 26 - 08:42 AM

You may well be right, Doug.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Jun 26 - 02:16 AM

Bookmakers have Burnham as next pm after starmer, at one to three on

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 11 Jun 26 - 01:44 AM

He is yet to be elected as MP Dick!

I'm with Starmer butUK is hard up and the accrued monies as described earlier are ranking up

Who and what to prioritise and pinching monies from Welfare budget seems a bad move even for defence budget ~ as said before Tories gave money to the wealthy (or failed to tax the rich) and now Water treatment and now armaments need to catch up ~ the piggy bank is empty

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 11 Jun 26 - 02:05 AM

So Uber taxis UK ~ what is this all about?

and person less driver vehicles in general ~ I think I would be somewhat concerned to see a vehicle with NO driver in place ~ some difficulties have already been seen ~ unbelievable, simply NO too many variables imv

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jun 26 - 03:23 AM

he may yet to be elected but presumably the bookies have done research. I agree about driver less vehicles.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jun 26 - 03:30 AM

driverless and highly automated vehicles are programmed to obey speed limits, though the exact behavior depends on the system and user settings."
less revenue foe government, but hopefully less speeding accidents, but are they successfully able to avoid animals....
"riverless vehicles can avoid animals dashing out on roads, but their success depends on the size of the animal, visibility conditions, and traffic at that moment. Autonomous vehicles use LiDAR, radar, cameras, and thermal sensors to detect wildlife, calculate collision risks in milliseconds, and apply automatic braking or steering."
not very convincing

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jun 26 - 06:25 AM

"less revenue for the government, but hopefully less speeding accidents, "

I'm not sure about that 'Less revenue' bit.
At the moment Uber claim to only be providing the service of arranging contracts (so have a much reduced figure to be taxed on), and the individual car-owners treat themselves as individual (small) businesses so will often avoid VAT registration and the need to account for VAT. I imagine that the new paradigm would be the car owning firm would have to register for VAT (having multiple vehicles under its control, and no drivers) so VAT would have to accounted for on the whole of the fares.
Although there might be a reduction in Income Tax (for any drivers who are employees) all fares would be fully recorded by computer systems, and no dodging the VAT/income tax/corporation tax on cash payments.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 11 Jun 26 - 07:33 AM

Flabbergasted by John Healey's resignation as Defence Secretary and very worried by impending Defence budget proposals (to be seen yet)

Nationalisation of Water etc is very costly WE HAVE NO MONEY thanks to Tory misrule and where possible unless "no cost" must be put off make the water companies make the set up work!! and enforce by law until later

Defence spending is key to our way forwards and yes other accrued monies we all know about must be met ~ so where does the money come from?

Hold on to your hats those with money must be taxed to raise vital money for Defence and other important dues

Sorry to see John Healey resign but a point well made imv

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 11 Jun 26 - 09:42 AM

I am disgusted by constant reference to the UK Welfare budget ~ inference that the poor and less well off are being paid too much ~ this needs to be proved ~ what are the facts in this statement please and just to say the budget is too much is not good enough

The poor and those on benefits are an important block of our society and traditionally Labour voters, beware of others causing unrest!

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jun 26 - 03:08 PM

Nigel, because speeding limits are not broken there is less revenue.
"driverless and highly automated vehicles are programmed to obey speed limits, though the exact behavior depends on the system and user settings." Result, less revenue.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 12 Jun 26 - 10:29 AM

> inference that the poor and less well off are being
> paid too much

The good ol' "deserving vs undeserving poor" conundrum. Fall on the wrong side of that, and we'll be back to the days of the dole man refusing people benefits because he saw a piano in their front room.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jun 26 - 03:21 PM

”inference that the poor and less well off are being paid too much”

Well that’s certainly ‘Fishy’ Rishi Sunak’s opinion - he’s on record recently as saying that people on minimum wage are too well-paid. What a POS.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 13 Jun 26 - 01:53 AM

Dan Jarvis ~new defence minister ~ wished him good afternoon last November after his attendance at Barnsley Remembrance Day at the town hall

he will be at the London one no doubt now

The Tories should be ashamed that they plundered the coffers for self fulfilment rather than keeping defence spending up and paying overdue debts

Tax the rich and leave the poor and destitute alone

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Jun 26 - 07:12 AM

Oh dear just seen televised Court of Appeal Judgement up holding UK Govt's decision to Proscribe Palestine Action

Firstly lets look at purpose of this group of people largely made up of Netanyahu's Israel destroying the People of Gaza daily and still are

The as far as we know un constituted group of like minded took to gathering to protest at the deaths and destruction of Palestine and took to displaying Palestine Action on boards etc ~ as far as I am aware there is still no legal entity called Palestine Action

In my view the group is made up of largely conscientious people expressing their human rights views ~ the UK Government firstly has been remiss in agreeing the views of those demonstrating and indeed shown total disregard for the plight of Palestine ~ instead decided to Proscribe none existent entity ~

For me the group consist of largely old biddies who have incurred the wrath and imprisonment for simply showing their heart felt opposite to War between Israel and Palestine and the criminals who have destroyed property ~ "they are seen to be supporters of PA ~ they are NOT ~ but the establishment's view was they are PAs members (members?( is there legal entity and constitution to which they adhere?

the Lady Justice refers to a manual ~ I do not like this where has this come from and leads itself to very deep scrutiny ~ a document put together by whom? and No doubt not seem by many of the old biddies like me ~ Terrorism brought about by Criminals who are not supporters of PA the PAs bulk of supporters wish the violence to stop in Gaza and this action by C of Appeal will be seen as supporting continued political views ~ Proscription is seen to a Govt ruse to stop Free Speech

Time to sort Palestine V Israel Action now?

Appeal to Supreme Court # maybe but the root Cause of Violence by Israel is political ~ needs to stop

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Jun 26 - 11:22 AM

So how can you proscribe a "cause" ~ Palestine Action is NOT an Homogeneous entity it is made up of people with a cause ~ that is to exert pressure by civil protest to encourage UK Govt to stop Israel from killing Palestinians in Gaza etc in my view

These actions fell on deaf ears politically

The criminal actions have been prosecuted quite rightly by old biddies by and large do not as far as I can see agree with such criminal actions

Proscription is a bad political reaction brought about by Govt as it saw a way to limit the thorn in its side from political comment by way of civil protest

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Jun 26 - 01:35 PM

Just watched "Last Week Tonight" with John Oliver giving the lowdown on Thursday's election, with a partial primer on Brit politics for us ignorant 'murricans. Can someone give me a first hand account of how to spell 'babbis 'ead' and pronounce it properly. It sorta looked like it could be a tasty though life limiting dish, without the pepto bismal he spilled over it as the final credits lifted.

Truly fascinating and dangerous stuff going on. There is an amazing amount of sideline money available to derail democracy, innit?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jun 26 - 02:10 PM

"BAB-iz ED"

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jun 26 - 03:06 PM

I am not from the north west, so i might be wrong

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Jun 26 - 04:10 PM

Correct, Sandman. ‘Boiled Babbies-‘Ed’ is Royal Navy slang for a steak & kidney suet pudding.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Jun 26 - 09:46 AM

congrats to Starmer for deal with japan

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 18 Jun 26 - 02:46 AM

Makerfield Election today

Interesting to see result tonight

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 18 Jun 26 - 08:26 AM

I search for information daily ~ Wikipedia and certain newspapers are crying out for donations ~ I am not inclined to do that ~I buy a daily newspaper and watch the news in Britain on a tv I have a licence for, on a paid for Lap top and a tv and a channel provider

I am not inclined to donate any more monies and AI has poked its nose in
to my X chat so I have had a short chat with a person who purported to be a chat friend ~ using my genuine information!! That is not on!

Most disturbing

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 19 Jun 26 - 12:27 AM

Andy Burnham won and gave a good acceptance speech 25k votes from Makerfield constituents

Westminster on Monday as new MP

So where to from here

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 19 Jun 26 - 12:41 AM

Dan Jarvis is new UK Defence Minister and is now at NATO

as the new boy ~ he will pick up the ball from where it now is ~ the Tories spent the monies and we are where we now are!

The Tories are now broken and the barrow boys are promising what UK cannot afford

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jun 26 - 06:38 AM

If there is a leadership contest (and it looks likely) can Keir Starmer get automatic inclusion, or does he also require the backing of 81 MPs?
If he needs that backing then at least there won't be too many candidates as, with the current parliamentary party make-up only 4 candidates can get the required 20% of votes.
There again, if Starmer gets an automatic entry, that leave 4 possible places available on the shortlist for others.

Any insight?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 26 - 08:24 AM

Nigel, if there is a leadership contest, the current incumbent is automatically included unless he chooses not to take part (presumably by offering his resignation).

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jun 26 - 09:20 AM

BWM: Thanks for that. I have just confirmed it for myself referencing LabourList


As an aside, a few years ago (Possibly back in Wogan era) some BBC R2 travel reporters used BWM as shorthand for Burst Water Main.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 26 - 09:48 AM

LOL! Well, at the age of 79, I do tend to suffer a little from OMWP (Old Man's Waterworks Problems)!

On the Labour leadership front, I find myself conflicted - on the one hand, Starmer has done very well on the International Affairs front, but he's scored some dreadful own-goals at home, e.g. the Winter Fuel Supplement debacle, and I'm concerned that he's strongly influenced by the Zionist element. Andy Burnham has done a good job as Manchester's Mayor, but he's comparatively untried and untested on both national and international levels. He comes across as a 'decent bloke', but I'm worried that he would be 'Starmer Mk 2'. I'm discounting Wes Streeting, I don't believe he has sufficient support to depose Starmer and beat Burnham, but I could be wrong (I recall being wrong once before, a long time ago!) ;-)

But my Border Terrier would make a better PM than either Farage, Tice, or Zia Yusuf, so the important thing is to keep Reform down.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Jun 26 - 03:38 AM

In Swinton, on the Wigan side of Manchester, in the 50s and 60s, steak puds were babbies yeds. I'll not repeat what a black pudding was!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Jun 26 - 06:53 PM

In Tesco's recently I saw boxes labelled 'Wee black pudding'. I always though the bodily fluid used was blood ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 21 Jun 26 - 01:34 AM

Interesting times in UK politics ~ firstly Nationalisation means that we the tax payer pick up the bill for the privatisation mis management of the Tory 14 plus years ~ in the Water industry ~ bankruptcy of Thames water has no option imv

Rail is Nationalising when contracts end so should have no cost and Network rail? I am not sure about their future set up

But we the taxpayer is set to foot the bill ~ NO ONE has come with a tax that will hit the well offs and we certainly do not need little t's US and his tariffs anywhere near

So align with Europe for trade but we do not need a joining fee now do we?

So Labour Ministers need to be savvy and be doing the job ~ there is a lot of talent unused and who have sought fame and fortune elsewhere in this big bad world

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Jun 26 - 03:19 AM

Krummy Badenough showing herself to be totally delusional by claiming that the Tory win in Aberdeen South makes them the ‘natural successor’ to Labour in government.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Jun 26 - 03:33 AM

time will tell whether Starmer will remain leader.
I do not have detasils of trade deal with japan, but that mi
ght, save him bookmakers have next pm after Starmer, 1to 80 on as Burnham, BUT THAT COULD MEAN 2 YEARS TIME OR SIX MONTHS

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Jun 26 - 05:24 AM

Apologies for spelling Badenough’s first name incorrectly - should, of course, be Krummi.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Rain Dog
Date: 21 Jun 26 - 01:18 PM

I have said before that UK Governments have a history of not investing enough in state owned industries. There is never enough money to invest in everything. Look at the problems in finding the money for the defence budget. There is certainly not enough money to finance investment in the water industry.

BBC Radio 4 recently had a series on the water industry. It is worth a listen.

Rinsed

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 22 Jun 26 - 01:14 AM

Pressure building on Keir Starmer to tender resignation or plan his leaving ~ I would suggest he insists on following the rules as set out for a change of leader mid term

Burnham not quite a certainty for next PM, just yet

The fundamental problem is where is the MONEY to fund accrued debts and future planned events including Defence to come from

A quick whip round from resident billionaires maybe?

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jun 26 - 01:40 AM

If Starmer tenders his resignation, as is being predicted, today, history may well look back and scratch its head as to why he was so hated.

On paper, he has probably delivered more to British working people in such a short time than any Prime Minister for decades. After inheriting the disastrous mess left after 14 years of Tory mis-rule, NHS waiting-lists have fallen, workers’ rights have improved, Rail Operators taken into national ownership, our relationship with the EU and the UK’s global reputation have been improved, the Non-Dom tax-status has been removed, childcare costs are dramatically reduced, the State Pension has been boosted, and we have the lowest homicide rate in 50 years. Half a million children have been lifted out of poverty, and immigration has been drastically reduced.

We are living in an age of billionaire-funded mis- and dis-information, whose sole purpose is to topple democratically elected leaders and insert leadership which favours the wealthy elites over the ordinary working people.

Looks like the game-plan is working.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jun 26 - 01:42 AM

Ray, who does the uk need to be defended against?Itis already occupied by USA bases

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Rain Dog
Date: 22 Jun 26 - 02:33 AM

All governments tend to be unpopular as a result of our voting system. The majority of voters do not vote for the ruling party. Let's remember that the present government received the lowest share of the vote than any previous government.

It seems impossible to have a sensible discussion about taxes amd spending. The only thing people seem to agree on is that someone else should pay more tax or have their state funding cut.

I do find the following site interesting

Tax Policy Associates

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Rain Dog
Date: 22 Jun 26 - 05:49 AM

I see Starmer has resigned.

We are living in chaotic times.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jun 26 - 07:06 AM

For me, Starmer’s biggest failures have been his perfectly avoidable and highly publicised ‘own goals’, e.g. the Winter Fuel Allowance debacle, his refusal to condemn Israel’s genocidal campaign in Gaza and, possibly worst of all, his apparent support for the Netan-Yahoo regime in Israel - to some degree understandable given that he’s married to a Jewish woman, but still unforgivable as far as I and many others are concerned.

On the other hand, he has shown great Statesmanship in international affairs generally, and succeeded in keeping us out of the Trump regime’s illegal war in Iran - something we should be eternally grateful for, given that Farage and Badenough would have dragged the UK straight into it.

His resignation announcement was impressive in its honesty and grace. Trump could learn a very great deal from him.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jun 26 - 07:06 AM

Aaaaaaa-a-a-nd, 100!