BS: Man's name or woman's name?

Subject: RE: BS: Man's name or woman's name?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 19 May 05 - 12:39 PM

McGrath of Harlow said (inter alia):

I imagine in Canada there must be a lot of confusion about people called Jean.

Some acquaintances of mine, from here in Indiana, were living in Quebec some years ago, and had a girl baby there. They filled in whatever official form it was with the given name "Jean". "No," said the authorities, "you can't name a girl that. That's a male name!" They were forced to spell it Jeanne.

On another subject, we have my father-in-law, born maybe 1880, whose name was Courtney Oronto Moore. These days one runs into a lot of female Courtneys. Probably not many Orontos, though, of either sex.

And one more (which I've related in other threads, but it's too good not to repeat):

At the beginning of my 9th grade year, which I guess would have been 1943, there was a new girl in school, who showed up, having gone to school elsewhere previously. I say "showed up" because I don't think any formal paperwork transfer had previously come for her.

So the teacher passed around a sign-in sheet among the class, with the instructions to "Put down your complete, formal name. No 'for-shorts', no nicknames."

I don't remember what her last name was, but say it was Schwartz. So she put down "Jack Schwartz". The teacher admonished her: "No, put down your REAL name! No nicknames!" The girl told her, "That's my name, Jack!" The teacher wouldn't believe her, and Jack wouldn't budge. So she was sent to the principal's office, who would surely get to the bottom of it.

The same scene ensued in the principal's office, with insistence on the "real" name and her obdurate answer of "Jack". "All right, young lady, you go home and bring your mother or father in, and we'll get the real name from them!"

Both the mother and father came in and assured the principal that my classmate's name was indeed Jack--not Jac, not Jackie, not Jacquelyn, but J-A-C-K, Jack!

Frankly, I don't envy the young lady.

I wonder whatever happened to Jack.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Man's name or woman's name?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 19 May 05 - 12:59 PM

And McGrath of Harlow, in another post, said:

Perhaps it'd be a bit more of a challenge to find some name that has never been used for a woman.

Algernon?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Man's name or woman's name?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 19 May 05 - 01:38 PM

Helen said:

You've reminded me of some female surnames: Brewster, Webster, & Baxter (bakster) i.e. , brew-sister, web (or weave) sister and bake-sister, compared with Brewer, Webber or Weaver, and Baker.

Helen, you posted that in 2003. Are you still around?

I never heard that. Can you give some sort of documentation or authentication for that -ster equals -sister bit?

My favorite etymological sourcebook, under teamster, brewster, and several others, merely refers to "a -ster variant of" whatever the verb form is. One exception that might go along with your statement above, and that's "seamstress". Under "sew", going through "Old English seam has derivative seamestre, whence Middle English seamster, whence English seamstress, var. sempstress; seamestre and seamster are feminine; -ess has been added to render the sex unmistakable."

That's the only place I find that kind of connection of a -ster form to feminine, and no direct reference to "sister".

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Man's name or woman's name?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 19 May 05 - 02:21 PM

I haven't read the entire thread, just some of the first and last posts, so pardon me if I'm repeating anything...

A couple of thoughts:

The woman's name "Jeanne" is pronounced in the French manner here in Louisiana ~ "Zhaahn" is a phonetic approximation ~ but in the rest of the US, it is almost always read as though pronounced "Jean"/"Gene."

I once had a female coworker named Trevor. This name is uncommon enough herebaouts that some folks would be introduced and not react at all, but most of us who had any familarily at all with the name Trevor usually recognized it as a man's name and thus reacted with some kind of "double-take.".

McGrath listed a number of "men's names taken over by women" including Evelyn, Shirly, Beverly, and others. I would observe that, in the US, all of these names are almost exclusively used for females, and people tend to ridicule the very idea of these names being used for (British) males.

Subject: RE: BS: Man's name or woman's name?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 May 05 - 03:00 PM

Glenn Close----- Man, woman, or address?
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Man's name or woman's name?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 05 - 05:32 PM

I once worked in an office where we had a male customer with the middle name of Mary. There was a big red message across the file "This is NOT a mistake".

Subject: RE: BS: Man's name or woman's name?
From: SharonA
Date: 19 May 05 - 07:32 PM

So, this thread lives again! Seems I neglected to mention, back in 2003, that my mother's name was Marion and that she and my father named my brother Leigh... which may not sound so strange to our UK 'Catters but is quite unusual here in the US.

As for the original issue of the business-email greeting, at the time I had thought it too "chummy" -- too informal-sounding -- to address the unknown party by her first name only, at least in my first email to her. Not knowing whether to say "Dear Mr. Lastname" or "Dear Ms. Lastname", I used the person's full name even though it sounded overly rigid to do so. These days the rules about formality in business-email greetings seem to have relaxed somewhat... perhaps for the very reasons we've seen illustrated in this thread: that what may be assumed to be a male's or a female's name in one country may not be so in another country (or even within the same country!).

Subject: RE: BS: Man's name or woman's name?
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 May 05 - 10:09 PM

Just in case Giok is serious (there aren't many 'Closes' in US geography) Glenn Close is a very good American actress.

Subject: RE: BS: Man's name or woman's name?
From: dianavan
Date: 19 May 05 - 11:43 PM

This is Canada and Michel and Michelle are common names. My brother, however, was always put into girls P.E. classes because his name was Jan. He didn't mind though. He always showed up for the first day of class and caused a minor riot. He always made the best of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Man's name or woman's name?
From: RobbieWilson
Date: 20 May 05 - 06:41 AM

I used to work in an office in London with a man called Barnett Barnett and in the same office at the same time was Andy Beverley Barnett.

As for my own name; the only version I have heard being used for a woman is Robin/ Robyn. Rab, Rob, Rabbie, Robbie and Robert all seem to be exclusively male.

My brothers name is Duncan and I am not aware of a variant of that for women

Subject: RE: BS: Man's name or woman's name?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 May 05 - 07:17 AM

Donuts?

Subject: RE: BS: Man's name or woman's name?
From: robomatic
Date: 20 May 05 - 07:36 AM

I read somewhere of a "Positive Wasserman Jones". One explanation was that a malicious med student convinced the poor mother that it was the name of a great physician, more recently I ran into this:

""When the girl was born, her mother got a look at her own hospital chart and thought that was what she was supposed to name the baby," he said. "So the poor girl was stuck with the name. The other kids called her Pozzie."

That shows positive thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: Man's name or woman's name?
From: GUEST,Sandra
Date: 20 May 05 - 01:08 PM

Just some people I have known

Male named Kermit - called Kim

Female named Stephanie - called Steve (of course)

Male named Sanford - called Sandy

Male named Demetrius - called Meech

Subject: RE: BS: Man's name or woman's name?
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 21 May 05 - 04:15 AM

Last week I was browsing in a bookshop & saw a section for Women Writers.

One book was by Gay Taliese (or however it's spelled).

I couldn't find a section for Men Writers, so left the book where I found it.

I wonder why they didn't have a section for Men Writers.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Man's name or woman's name?
From: GUEST,Mr Red (no prizes for guessing there)
Date: 21 May 05 - 05:14 AM

Mr Red's alter ego often gets this gender confusion (no comments please) , and rarely takes offence but it sorts-out those that do not know him, and are just trying it on.

(you would have to click http://cresby.com for explanation - or maybe not if you are observant)

Subject: RE: BS: Man's name or woman's name?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 May 05 - 01:07 PM

I believe that "Bloke" is quite a common first name in South Africa. I imagine that is one which probabaly won't be appropriated by women.

Subject: RE: BS: Man's name or woman's name?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Oct 09 - 02:10 PM

Funny that no-one has mentioned the case of the distinguished novelist Evelyn Waugh. His first wife was also called Evelyn. They were known to their circle as He-Evelyn & She-Evelyn.