BS: Baghdad got blowed up REEEEEL good

Subject: BS: Baghdad got blowed up REEEEEL good
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 05:49 PM

Today. Another Silent Night/6:00 News day.

Scores dead, at least 35-40 in Baghdad, and over 110 around the country, according to the latest accounts.

US helicopter gunships opened fire on a crowd "milling around a burning U.S. vehicle in a Baghdad street on Sunday" (Reuters).

Reuters Television images showed Iraqis running for cover shortly before a blast felled Al Arabiya producer Mazen Tomeizi.
The Palestinian, who was working for the Dubai-based TV channel, died soon afterwards. Reuters cameraman Seif Fouad, who had been recording the scene, was also injured in the explosion.

"Mazen's blood was on my camera and face," Fouad said from his hospital bed. He said his friend screamed at him for help: "Seif, Seif! I'm going to die. I'm going to die."

The U.S. military said two of its helicopters opened fire after coming under attack from the crowd. Reuters television footage showed no evidence of shooting from the ground.


A suicide bomber attempted to drive an explosives laden car into Abu Ghraib, but was fired upon by US troops, and the car only killed the driver.

Presumably that won't be the last attempt to get through and blow the prison up.

At least 7 car bombs exploded in Baghdad, and pre-dawn rocket attacks were made on the US Green Zone, in one of the heaviest insurgent bombing campaigns in Baghdad ever.

In rebel occupied Ramadi, US helicopter gunships fired into a civilian area, killing a doctor and at least 10 women and children.

The surge in violence coincided with new American offensives to retake insurgent-held areas.

"We've seen a tremendous increase in the number of attacks," Brigadier General Erv Lessel, a U.S. military spokesman, told Reuters.

The Bush administration plan for Iraq--to keep it off the front pages and off the nightly news, appears to still be a secret safe with Cheney.

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad got blowed up REEEEEL good
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 07:05 PM

... and they quietly die in the Sudan.....

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad got blowed up REEEEEL good
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 07:26 PM

Yes they do. But not at US hands. I am a US citizen, discussing the war being waged in my name, by my government, in Iraq. Which begs the question, what the hell does your snide comment about Sudan have to do with this thread?

I also have discussed the genocide in Sudan here at Mudcat at some length. I follow the little bit of news I can get about the Sudan crisis online, which is sketchy at best. I've discussed what I've seen here with people like Don Firth, who watches a lot of the same news programs I do (Charlie Rose, Bill Moyers). I regularly write my Congressional representatives about the war in Iraq and the Sudan crisis. I attend a weekly protest, along with my African immigrant students, against the US government indefensible refusal to act quickly and decisively regarding the Sudan crisis. I have signed petitions about both the Iraq war and the Sudan crisis.

So, beardedbruce, is there some reason why you feel it necessary to come into a thread on Iraq violence, to deflect the conversation by invoking the Sudan crisis, over which I, as a US citizen, have much less influence upon than I do my own government waging war against the Iraqi people? Or are you suggesting that perhaps one people's suffering is more deplorable than another's? A hierarchy of suffering?

Why don't you keep your disingenuous crap to your own Sudan thread beardedbruce? Or do you play this game to get people to stop looking at the war my government is waging right now? Is that the tactic?

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad got blowed up REEEEEL good
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 07:41 PM

"In rebel occupied Ramadi, US helicopter gunships fired into a civilian area, killing a doctor and at least 10 women and children."

And did the rebels fire first at the gunships? Or at troops? were the rebels in a hospital, or school, or mosque, in violation of the Geneva convention? You present facts, but ow about all the facts?


As Guest, I have no idea what you have discussed here.


I have stated that, IMO, the war in Iraq was justified by what information we had at the time- In addition, I have made the point that the war was authorized by the UN after the invasion of Kuwait, and upon the violation of the ceasefire by Saddam, hostilities had alkready recommenced. You are like someone in Egland during WWII, complaing to the government that they should stop the war against Germany, because innocent people are being killed.


I honestly believe that the responsibility for the deaths is upon those people fighting against us- initially Saddam and his forces, and now the insurgents, who appear to be supported by Iran.


What the administration is doing in regards to Sudan is just what the liberals here were asking it to do with Iraq- and with results that are too little, too late.

From Sunday's Washington Post:

"the admnistration will continue to press other countries to press the United Nations to press Sudan's government. The uncertainty of this strataegy was immediately apparent after Mr Powell spoke. Brushing aside the evidence, France and Germany declined to call the killings genocide. ... China, the leading foreign investor in Sudan's burgeoning oil fields, said it might veto a tough Security Council resolution."

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad got blowed up REEEEEL good
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 07:49 PM

Oh I see now, beardedbruce. Because you are PRO war on Iraq, you are going to passive aggressively disrupt any threads about the war that puts your boys in a bad light.

Now I get it.

Well, you know what? I'll take the word of the Reuters reporters on the ground in Baghdad when they say a US helicopter gunship fired indiscriminately into a crowd of unarmed Iraqi civilians to "protect" their disabled Bradley in flames in a Baghdad street. Instead of a Iraq war hawk like you.

I'm also going to take the word of non-US media when they say that the US bombings of cities like Najaf and Falluja is destroying Iraqi civilization, and the archaeological treasures of the Western world, in their effort to "kill the enemy".

Funny, we weren't calling the Iraqis our enemies BEFORE we overthrew their government, occupied their country, and began destroying their cities, towns, and villages. But at least those pesky oil prices are stabilizing, right beardedbruce?

You want to defend the slaughter of innocents by US troops, go right ahead. But accusing those of us who are actually discussing the carnage that is Iraq of not caring about the Sudan crisis is just a bogus ploy to deflect people from discussing what is really going on.

But hey beardedbruce, some of us progressives got the Republican right's email on keeping Iraq off the front pages, off the newscasts, and out of the American voters' consciousness until after November 2.

It ain't gonna work here.

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad got blowed up REEEEEL good
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 08:17 PM

Guest, it is the actions and words of people like you that has encouraged the killing. The blood is on your hands, not mine.

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad got blowed up REEEEEL good
From: Once Famous
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 08:35 PM

Guest, are you an Arab?

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad got blowed up REEEEEL good
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 08:59 PM

Well, IMO, since it is an unidentifed Guest, I have NO clues what you may or may not have discussed here. Just which Guest are you?

I deplore the war in Iraq, and all other wars. In the meantime, scores of US humans are also dieing of malnutrition, hypothermia, and treat-able illnesses because of our archaic health care system. Tell me, just who am I supposed to care about first?

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad got blowed up REEEEEL good
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 09:37 PM

Everybody, Sorcha. But one must on a practical basis attend to those first who are either nearest or most reachable through normal channels, I suppose. It's quite a challenge.

One of the greatest things standing in the way of peace and human unity is tribalism (of faith, race, national identity, culture, etc...). It's nothing to be proud of, but people cling to it with a righteousness and zeal that is chilling to behold, and they are taught to do so by the example set by their parents.

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad got blowed up REEEEEL good
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 09:56 PM

Mission Accomplished












NOT

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad got blowed up REEEEEL good
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 10:05 PM

"U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Richard Myers, conceded on Sept. 7 that Sunni and Shiite insurgents control important parts of central Iraq and that it was unclear when U.S. and Iraqi government forces would be able to regain those areas. That amounted to an acknowledgment of failure to curb the growing insurgency and of the immense difficulties they face in re-establishing control..."

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad got blowed up REEEEEL good
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 10:44 PM

And Doonesbury is vindicated! See the old episodes of the comic back in the early days of OIF (Operation Iraqi Fuckup) which predicted very much what is occurring now in Iraq.

The USA will find, as do all imperial powers, that it is one thing to invade and occupy a small country, and quite another to bend its population permanently to your will by either superior force of arms or grandiose and dishonest rhetoric.

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad got blowed up REEEEEL good
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 11:21 PM

Sadly, nay PATHETICALLY, none of this needed to happen. All the news reports I've read through Google News today said the same thing: the security situation is rapidly deteriorating, and the US forces are coming back at the insurgents by targeting civilians.

It churns the stomach, really.

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad got blowed up REEEEEL good
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 10:11 AM

Well, the British did the same thing in India, didn't they? It's easier to find civilians. General (Colonel? Whatever...) Dyer's troops massacred a whole enclosure full of unarmed civilians who were peacefully gathered, and he was quite proud of himself for eliminating those "enemies of the Empiah". Tally ho and all that.

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad got blowed up REEEEEL good
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 05:31 PM

I think you'll find we did it all over the shop, ol love. Except we did it with class.
    Be the people at the top in England's history, hero's or butchers they were carer war mongers they knew how to end a war cos they thought things through. Be it Wellington, Kitchener, Churchill or Cromwell.
All these had a plan to have a total end game. They didn't have a parade with balloons and some spit arss warbling what is thought to be patriotic songs in front of the weak minded to give the likes of bush and blare, some vindication to go to war.

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad got blowed up REEEEEL good
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 05:46 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad got blowed up REEEEEL good
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 05:47 PM

Please excuse the blank post. I was trying to create a link to another thread:


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