BS: June 25th Little Big Horn

Subject: BS: June 25th Little Big Horn
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 07:46 PM

June 25th is the anniversary of the battle of Little Big Horn. I came across this online, an interesting article detailing a group of four warriors who led a suicide attack.

Warriors' act kept secret for decades
By LORNA THACKERAY
Of The Gazette Staff

Nobody talked openly about the "Suicide Boys'' until almost 90 years after the Battle of the Little Bighorn.

American Indian accounts written down immediately after the fight on June 25, 1876, or years later when the warriors were old men, do not mention four Cheyenne and about 20 Sioux warriors who vowed to fight to the death in the next battle with U.S. troops.

Maybe the suicide vow was too sacred to be shared with outsiders while the battle was still so fresh, speculated John Doerner, chief historian at Little Bighorn Battlefield.


John Stands In Timber, whose Cheyenne grandfathers fought at Little Bighorn, spent 50 years gathering accounts from eyewitnesses. In the 1960s, with the help of editor Margot Liberty, Stands In Timber published a traditional Cheyenne version of events.

"It really explains a lot of the history of the battle,'' Doerner said.

Stands In Timber's account provided new perspective on the ebb and flow of events. It put troopers in unexpected places near the Little Bighorn River, on the site now occupied by Custer National Cemetery, and in the area where the National Park Service Visitor Center now sits. And it credited the Suicide Boys with a daring charge that many Cheyenne veterans believe doomed the last remnants of five companies of the 7th Cavalry.

His story begins as thousands of Sioux, Cheyenne and Arapaho camped along the Little Bighorn River. According to Stands In Timber, the tribes knew that soldiers were looking for them, and they expected a fight.

On June 24, 1876, some of the Sioux announced that they would take the suicide vow. A dance was arranged that night to honor them. The ritual, which the Northern Cheyenne believed originated with them, was called the "Dying Dancing."

"This meant that they were throwing their lives away,'' Stands In Timber recounted. "In the next battle, they would fight until they were killed.''

Four Northern Cheyenne decided that they would take the vow at the same time. He identified them at Little Whirlwind, Cut Belly, Closed Hand and Noisy Walking.

Although Wooden Leg, a Cheyenne warrior, whose account of the battle was published in 1931 by his biographer Thomas Marquis, did not mention a suicide pact, he did list the four among the Cheyenne dead. Cut Belly, whom he identified as Open Belly, was about 30, but had no wife and children, Wooden Leg said. Closed Hand, whom he identified as Black Bear, was about 20. Little Whirlwind and Noisy Walking were about 16.

Doerner said that Suicide Boys were often poor, carrying into battle only what they could scrounge. They may have had only bows and arrows and war clubs, he said. If they had firearms, he said, they were probably borrowed or cast-offs. Most likely they had not previously distinguished themselves in combat, he said.

For young men dreaming of honor and sacrifice, the night must have been the most glorious of their lives.

People gathered for the dance early in the evening and roared approval when the Suicide Boys entered, Stands In Timber said. Although they knew soldiers were in the area, they did not expect an attack the next day. They danced through the night, and it may have been the smoke from those fires that Custer's scouts in the Wolf Mountains about 15 miles away saw at daybreak June 25.

On their last morning, the Suicide Boys were paraded through camp. Stands In Timber said his grandmother, Twin Woman, related that the boys walked in front of the procession. An old man followed telling everyone to "look at these boys well. They would never come back after the next battle.''

While the parade was still in progress, Maj. Marcus Reno, under orders from Lt. Col. George Custer, attacked the village. Custer and five companies moved upstream, presumably intending to attack at the other end of the huge camp.

Confronted by fierce resistance, Reno's troops retreated pell-mell across the river and established a position in the bluffs above. Wooden Leg said Little Whirlwind charged after one of the Arikara scouts with Reno's command. The two warriors fired at each other in the same moment and both fell dead.

With Reno's force contained on the bluff, attention turned to Custer's column. Firing started as the soldiers neared the river, Stands In Timber said. Warriors kept their distance at first and as the soldiers moved toward the Northern Cheyenne camp on the other side of the Little Bighorn.

The column turned north when met with resistance from warriors firing from the river bottom. The troopers retraced their route to where the National Cemetery sits, according to Stands In Timber. The troopers stayed there for about 20 minutes before moving into a low spot between the visitor center and Last Stand Hill.

"Before long, some Sioux criers came along behind the line, and began calling in the Sioux language to get ready and watch for the Suicide Boys,'' Stands In Timber recounted.

They were at the river readying for an attack. After the Suicide Boys rushed the soldiers, other warriors were expected to join them in hand-to-hand combat. When the soldiers turned to respond, warriors behind them would have a chance to move closer, crowding them from both sides.

"The criers called out those instructions twice,'' Stands In Timber said. "Most of the Cheyennes could not understand them, but the Sioux there told them what had been said.''

The Suicide Boys entered the fight near its conclusion, he said. They galloped to where the visitor center now stands and stampeded the soldiers' horses. Some charged directly into the place where the soldiers had decided to make their stand, according to Stands In Timber's account.

Other warriors rushed in after the Suicide Boys. In the close fighting, none of the soldiers had time to take aim or effectively fire their weapons.

"After they emptied their pistols this way, there was no time to reload,'' Stands In Timber said. "But most of the Indians had clubs or hatchets, while the soldiers just had guns."

He said that after the Suicide Boys initiated the charge, the battle lasted only about another half-hour.

All the Suicide Boys were dead or dying by the time the last of the soldiers perished.

Stands In Timber said many of the warriors agreed that if the Suicide Boys had not made a charge directly into the soldiers, the result could have been the same as at the Reno Hill. Although soldiers on the hill took heavily casualties, most survived a two-day siege about five miles away from Custer's battlefield.

"The Indians all stayed back and fought there,'' he said of the Reno Hill fight. "No Suicide Boys jumped in to begin the hand-to-hand fight. The Custer fight was different because these boys went in that way, and it was their rule to be killed."

Closed Hand apparently died just below Last Stand Hill. Wooden Leg said Limberhand, whom he called Limber Bones, was killed in the same vicinity. Noisy Walking died that night in his father's lodge at the Little Bighorn camp. Cut Belly, shot down in the vicinity of where the Stone House now stands, died a few days later at the Powder River.

Red granite headstones honoring them include both their Cheyenne names and translations supplied by Linwood Tall Bull. Each bears the inscription:

"A Cheyenne warrior fell here on June 25, 1876, while defending the Cheyenne way of life.''

Subject: RE: BS: June 25th Little Big Horn
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 08:56 PM

Let their names live forever and be a reminder to those who would invade another people's land and destroy their homes, their children, their way of life...at the behest of suited leaders who stay safely home behind pieces of paper and large, wooden desks.

Thank you for posting the story, Shanghaiceltic.

Subject: RE: BS: June 25th Little Big Horn
From: number 6
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 08:58 PM

Very intersting. Thanks for that post ShanghaiCeltic.

Some trivia that some Canadians might be interested in ... A Canadian from Mount Pleasant, Ontario. by the name of 1st Lieutenant William Cooke (Custer's adjutant) was one of the casualties of the 7th calvalry. His body was later interned back in Hamilton, Ontario.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: June 25th Little Big Horn
From: GUEST,Melani
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 09:01 PM

Thanks, SC, for posting that and reminding us that the annversary of that fight is approaching. If you would like to see a really great website, go to
Friends of the Little Bighorn

Subject: RE: BS: June 25th Little Big Horn
From: Beer
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 09:11 PM

Very very interesting. Thank you Shanghaiceltic.
Beer

Subject: RE: BS: June 25th Little Big Horn
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 09:16 PM

Yes, thanks....my parents had a book which I can no longer remember the title of, that gave the Lakota account of the battle of the Greasy Grass. The last great stand of the Amrican Indians...they won the battle but lost the war...and G. A. Custer was an egomanical idiot.

May their names be remembered....

Subject: RE: BS: June 25th Little Big Horn
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 09:26 PM

"CUSTER HAD IT COMING"

Subject: RE: BS: June 25th Little Big Horn
From: number 6
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 09:47 PM

Yeah, Custer had it coming that's for sure ... but we should remember the many of hapless troopers of the 7th Calvary were immigrants to the new land, desperate for job, a job thatwould involve them in a cause that was beyond their comprehention.

Ironic that SittingBull later took on with the Buffalo Bill Wild West circus ... Bill, a man himself responsible for the meaningless slaughter of literally thousands of buffalo. Rains in the Face, the warrior who reportably killed Custer was also a member of the 'show'.

All in all, the Big Horn (on both sides) involved human beings. Like all wars and battles it was a tragedy, no one came out a winner.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: June 25th Little Big Horn
From: Kaleea
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 06:52 AM

I've read several books about it, & heard people tell stories told by their parents/family members. Seems like someone called it something like the battle where the girl saved her brother-can't remember for sure. Black Elk Speaks is also a good book to read about it.
   Several years ago, a friend of my family who had just had a triple bypass & didn't think he'd be around for many more years was looking for one more project which would be big. He asked me to go with him visit some guy who'd written a musical. It was pathetic & amateur, & I told him that. Then, he was approached by somebody who handed him a copy of Black Elk Speaks. My mother & I told him that was the one. Bob decided this was the right project.

Subject: RE: BS: June 25th Little Big Horn
From: kendall
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 07:03 AM

How can any thinking person delude himself into thinking this country is Mr. Clean?

Subject: RE: BS: June 25th Little Big Horn
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 08:49 AM

What do you mean Kendall?

Subject: RE: BS: June 25th Little Big Horn
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 11:22 AM

That's a great story. Thanks for sharing it. Are there other stories like it at the website where it was found ? Or was this a newspaper article ?

Subject: RE: BS: June 25th Little Big Horn
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 04:17 PM

What Kendall means is Custer got Siouxed.

Subject: RE: BS: June 25th Little Big Horn
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 05:50 PM

This was an online newspaper article I came across.

I have always been interested in the history of the US particularly with regards to the conflicts between the native Americans and the settlers who were pushing further into their territory.

One of the themes in a number of books I have been reading over the last three years has been that of conflict and cultural missunderstanding between the native peoples of NZ, Australia, the Pacific Islands and Asia (particularly China) and the so called discoverers of those lands. As a foreigner living in a foreign land (China now and Japan & SE Asia before)it makes me think a lot about what I say and do.

Cultural arrogance on one side often leads to appaling conflicts for both sides.

Subject: RE: BS: June 25th Little Big Horn
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 06:26 PM

This past Sunday, the History Channel had an excellent show called "Battlefield Detectives: Custer at Little Big Horn" which also brought out much more of the Lakota, Crow, etc. accounts, some secret until now, as noted above.(I think it was a rerun as I've seen postings elsewhere on the internet about it from before.) Even more interesting was the archealogical evidence they are still finding on a daily basis which backs up the NDN accounts. There's more at this site about the archeaology of it all.

They pointed out that the final battle really took place at Deep Ravine where the bodies of the fallen soldiers still await discovery, as they work to figure out where each one is. Also, it is the only battlefield in the world which has markers for the fallen on the exact spot where they perished.

Here's a small blurb: The defeat of General Custer by Sioux chief Sitting Bull at the Battle of Little Big Horn is re-examined. New evidence reveals that the native Americans didn't depend solely on traditional weapons, that the health of Custer's men was extremely poor, and that the "last stand" in fact took place at Deep Ravine.

It included interviews of elders and descendants of NDNs. Also, they pointed out that the majority of Custer's men were foreign-born as mentioned above, never dreaming they'd find themselves in such a situation when coming to the "new country" to seek a better life.

Whenever we come to this anniversary, I always think of Floyd Red Crow Westerman and his album, "Custer died for your sins." I had the privilege of meeting him and hearing him sing his songs when all he had were cassettes to sell at powwows. Here's a great write-up on him. Somehow, it seems god to include info on him in this thread:

FLOYD RED CROW WESTERMAN INDIAN CELEBRITY OF THE YEAR
   ANADARKO -- On Tuesday August 8, 2000, the 69th annual American Indian
Exposition will honor an icon of the film and television industry. On that
evening, actor, activist, and folk and country singer Floyd Red Crow
Westerman will be named Indian Celebrity of the Year! Westerman will sing
a concert of his music on Monday, Aug. 7 as part of the expo program.

Born in 1936 on the Sisseton-Wahpeton Dakota Sioux Reservation,
Westerman's Dakota name, "Kanghi Duta," means "Red Crow." He attended
boarding school at the age of ten and graduated from high school on the
Flandreau South Dakota Sioux Reservation. He subsequently studied at
Northern State College in South Dakota.
   
Westerman's movie appearances include Renegades, Dances with Wolves, The
Doors, Lakota Woman, Buffalo Girls, and Clearcut. He will soon appearing in
Richard Attenborough's new film Grey Owl. His television experience includes
guest leads in Northern Exposure, The Pretender, L.A. Law, X-Files,
Millennium, Roseanne, Dharma and Greg, and a cameo appearance as Sitting
Bull in the mini-series Son of the Morning Star. Currently, he appears
regularly as Uncle Ray to Chuck Norris's Walker Texas Ranger.
   
Red Crow is active on the country and folk singing circuit as well, where
he started in Colorado and got his first recording contract in New York in
1969. His albums "Custer Died For Your Sins" and "The Land is Your Mother"
have brought him personal appearances across Europe, the Americas, and the
United States and Canada. His concerts help to support Human Rights for
Indigenous People of the World.

Subject: RE: BS: June 25th Little Big Horn
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 08:01 PM

I read some time ago that there was a brush fire in the area and the archeologists came in as the ground was well exposed and without digging too much they were able to find the spent cartidges and bullets.

Analysis of the locations and the types of bullet and cartridges pointed out the fact that the Indians were well armed with new weapons and that those guns had probably been sold to them by white gun sellers.

Subject: RE: BS: June 25th Little Big Horn
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 08:12 PM

Here is what i was looking for;

The Firearms

According to this the Army weapons were somewhat inferior to the ones used by the native americans.