BS: Janet Jacksons Breast

Subject: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Raptor
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 02:29 PM

In what was the worst halftime show ever Justin Timberlake exposed Janet's Breast as he sang I'm Gonna have you naked by the end of this song!

Was it planed or not. He claimed it was a wardrobe Failure!

If you don't care please don't post!

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Midchuck
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 02:36 PM

I think the Democrats' best chance for the presidency in this year's election is to get Janet Jackson's right breast into the primaries as a candidate.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Justa Picker
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 02:37 PM

...or Hillary's left.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Kim C
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 02:56 PM

I think it was planned from the start. Why would she have had the nipple jewelry on if she didn't plan on showing it?

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 02:57 PM

I heard about it on the news this morning. I don't watch football, and didn't know who was playing. But who cares? It's just a boob. You see them on tv all of the time, though usually they're completely dressed. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST,keeping abreast of the issue
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 03:12 PM

keeping abreast of the issue

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 03:14 PM

"But who cares? It's just a boob"

Zactly...

"You see them on tv all of the time, though usually they're completely dressed"

Yer not watching the right channels then!

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 03:33 PM

A tempest in a C-cup.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 03:47 PM

If it wasn't planned, why didn't she smack Timberlake upsida the head when he did it?

Tasteless. Worse, it seems to say that such actions are okay. This has to be some sort of anti-pinnacle.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Raptor
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 03:51 PM

I'm still triing to figger out who thought anyone would want to see Justin Timberlake perform in the first place!

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Benjamin
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 03:54 PM

Now is it just me, or does Janet surprisingly resemble her brother AFTER all of his plastic surgeries?

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 03:59 PM

Hey! OUCH!!!!????

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 04:03 PM

Why can't I stop making up something like

Come watch the show men, gather round
Make up the nachos right!
No matter if the Budweiser fails
We'll have a roaring night!
Here the Superbowl plods along
Here teevee executives woo the throng
While Justin Timberlake sings a song
And shows Janet Jackson's breast!

(tune "Stonewall Jackson's Way")

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 04:20 PM

Two sets of idiots - first Trousersnake himself who (presumably to cover the fact that he sings nearly as badly as I do) groped the best end (and indeed the best singing end) of Kylie Minogue on stage and so no doubt imagined he could get away with anything, and now is so unoriginal as to put JJ in the unenviable position of either seeming complaisant about his assault or smacking him in the mouth and spoiling the song - and second the great American public who howl like the silliest Victorians about seeing a thing all women have two of!

Perhaps he puts on this fake masculinity to cover for his most unmasculine voice.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Pseudolus
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 04:21 PM

Well, the Super Bowl has really just gone the same route as the rest of the entertainment industry. It's all about shock and what can we do that has never been done before. Between reality TV (which is anything BUT real!) and halftime shows and daytime talk shows, I'm pretty tired of TV altogether! By the way, in the middle of the boob exposing and the singing (oh wait, it was Justin Timberlake...sheesh!), and the other feeble attempts at music, a football game broke out, a pretty good one at that, arguable one of the best in Super Bowl history...kinda wonder if anyone noticed...

Frank

P.S. The commercials used to be the best part of the Super Bowl, even they were kinda sad this year....

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Pseudolus
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 04:23 PM

If Janet was in an unenviable position, she put herself there...there's no doubt that she knew what was coming....

just my two cents....
Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Raptor
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 04:28 PM

Don't Blame The Superbowl Blame MTV.They Have Killed Rock And Roll and now they are wreaking pop if that can be done.

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Deckman
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 04:34 PM

Obviously no one found this to be a titallating moment! Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Cluin
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 04:45 PM

Well, I missed the whole "debacle". I was too busy playing with the set that were made available to me at the time.

But I'm as indifferent to this "big deal" as I was when Britney tongue-rassled Madonna a while ago. It's the kind of crap Some celebs do to stay in the (using the term loosely) news.

So I guess I don't care. Sorry for posting, Raptor.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 05:02 PM

I just think the whole thing is funnier than hell!

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 05:09 PM

Rapaire, the word you need is "nadir".

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 05:10 PM

Who is Justin Timberlake? And how come 20 quick posts to this breast thread while my mastitis went almost ignored?

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Cluin
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 05:12 PM

Maybe because you didn't have a big hunk of shrapnell attached to your nipple, SINS....   ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 05:13 PM

I didn't ignore it SINS, but I didn't have anything to add that might have helped.

I think Justin Timberlake needs help in relating to women.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 05:17 PM

all this over a boob...

Last time I checked you could find them on very nearly ALL the women in the world... and on way too many of the men as well!

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 05:41 PM

Tom Shales of the Washington Post reviews it all..

(I watched very little of the game...they were running the movie "Independance Day" opposite...I don't know which was sillier!

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 06:29 PM

Thanks for the link. From where I was watching I wasn't aware that anything unusal was going on.

But the real story was the game. How about them Pats!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble, who only watches one football game a year and this one was well worth it!

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 06:30 PM

The most horrible thing about this is the bloody little adverts telling me I've won the hourly prize if I ring some number in the middle of nowhere at a premium rate, that pop up when I opened the link and now won't bloody go away!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 06:36 PM

Whether or not Janet Jackson knew what was coming, am I the only one who thinks it was both tasteless and degrading?

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 06:39 PM

To be honest, that costume looked like it was just an accident waiting to happen.... who wears titrings like that unless they are actually wanting them to be seen?

Actually, other than S&M practitioners, who wears titrings like that?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 06:44 PM

I'd like to know how she does the Star of Bethlehem trick with her nipple ?

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Ed.
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 07:08 PM

I think it was planned from the start. Why would she have had the nipple jewelry on if she didn't plan on showing it?

Kim C pretty much says it all on that question. Quite why the media (and the public)(and Mudcat) are so bothered about the sight of a woman's breast is another point entirely

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 07:18 PM

No kidding. It's just another instance of this society's need to grow up and get over the bullshit puritanism from hundreds of years ago. Our cable company even blocks out breasts when they are supposed to be bared. Gawd forbid anyone might see a woman's breasts. Talk about double standards; half-naked men are a dime a dozen on tv.

I have no opinion on Jackson and what she did or did not plan, but the reaction in this country is just ridiculous!

Topless Wimmin Unite!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Amergin
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 07:35 PM

just a publicity ploy...

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Dharmabum
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 07:53 PM

The evening news reported tonight that CBS was swamped with complaints from irate parents, because their children were subjected to "Brief"nudity, during what was dinner hour for much of the nation.

OK,let me get this straight...........It's ok to watch a bunch of guys slamming into each other,breaking bones & whatnot.....BUT,NO TITTIES ALLOWED!!!!!
OK,I think I got it. Sheesh,there's just so many durned rules to remember!

Actually,I was surfing between the game & Cspan last night.
I just happened to be watching some politicians speechifying when the halftime incident took place.

And to think,I could have had T instead of A !


    DB.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Amos
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 07:56 PM

While Mister Timberlake has been an aspirant of the Temple's highest virtues for many years, it is important, in the interests of being up front, to emphasize that the Temple never required his support and never provided him any offer of employment. He is not currently enrolled in any of our Sensitive Touch Advanced Spiritual Training, and has not attended any Temple services for a number of years.

Brother Tactile Underwire
Director of Haptic Maneuvers and Sensibilities
Temple of the Golden Globes

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 08:00 PM

I am amazed that nobody from the States has commented so far on Beyoncé's excruciating rendition of the Star-Spangled Banner before the game.

Or has everybody just become blasé after having heard the anthem mangled at every Superbowl ?

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 09:07 PM

I'm not against displaying bare breasts or unbare breasts. I just don't think that Timberlake should have done what he did -- if JJ wanted 'em bared, she should have bared 'em. Could have been VERY erotic. Instead we get tacky tasteless sado-degradation.

I understand that the football game was really pretty good.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 09:14 PM

Sorry Murray, most people agree that Beyonce did a stunning rendition of the anthem.

As much as I have no problem with nudity and free speech, it was a rather inappropriate act.

I can tell you with that MTV had nothing to do with Janet Jackson revealing her breast. My statement is based on more than my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Amos
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 09:23 PM

Sins:

In your thread, you didn't provide real time images such as those associated with the Drudge report on Ms Jackson's breast. Taunting Kendall just isn't the same thing!! :>)

I would say that is a significant degree of difference, at a very primtive and crude level.

Only mentioned because you asked...


A

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 09:31 PM

So, was a male entertainer doing some bodice ripping to expose a female entertainer's breast more or less tasteless than the dry humping dance routines? Or more or less tasteless than the dancers e doing a synchronized bodice ripping routine, dressed as cheerleaders (two, three, four)? Or was it more less tasteless than the horse farting in a woman's face in the beer commercial?

Then there is that winning spirit, the Pats victory riot in Boston, which not only included hours of intense, violent rioting, but also resulted in one death when a drunk SUV driver backed into the crowd?

Hey--Superbowl Sunday is the essence of Republican American Values (tm) at work!

Anyone remember Hunter Thompson's writing about Nixon, the Redskins, and the ritualistic, orgiastic aspects of Superbowl Sunday?

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 09:39 PM

Considering the beer was Budweiser, a horse fart does seem appropriate.

I have only watched one Super Bowl in my lifetime. I find football to be very boring, and the fact that Super Bowl Sunday has become an unofficial national holiday is yet another way that corporate America has sucked in the public.   

I love the irony that most American "sports" fans continually knock soccer because of all the supposed fan violence, yet the violence and deaths that occured last night are ignored, or perhaps they have been obscured by Janet Jackson's boob.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 09:46 PM

It has been rumored in certain circles that George W Bush once attended a Superbowl party hosted by Thompson, back in his cocaine days.

Talk about Freak Power.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: open mike
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 09:58 PM

the part that pisses me off the most is that Move On lobbied to no avail to have their prize-winning ad viewed during the event. It would have led to some sensible controversy, as opposed to the senseless babble inspired by the actual goings-on.see move on web site for more info
One Thing That Won't Be Tackled on Sunday: Issues
By Eli Pariser
Campaigns Director, MoveOn.org Voter Fund
http://www.moveon.org/r?484


When the Super Bowl is beamed into living rooms around the world Sunday, you can expect to see TV spots hyping cars, beer, razor blades, three different erectile dysfunction cures, toilet paper and snack foods.


The ads will be slick and clever, lavishly produced, brilliant in their marketing. Some, no doubt, will be sexually suggestive or violent. Most will cost $2 million to $3 million to produce and broadcast.

But here's what you won't see: a single ad about the big issues that face our country today.
Outrageous as it may sound, CBS has decided that ads selling erectile dysfunction medicines and toilet paper are appropriate for Americans, but serious discussion should be banned. An ad about our country, our war, our president, the state of our schools or the size of our budget deficit? That, in the eyes of CBS officialdom, would be too controversial.
We know, because we tried. We thought that the Super Bowl, with 130 million viewers, would be a great place to get our message out. So we held a contest on the Internet to select the best ad we could possibly run. The ad we selected — from 1,500 submissions — shows children cleaning offices, washing dishes and hauling trash. It ends with the question: "Guess who's going to pay off President Bush's $1-trillion deficit?" (It's viewable at http://www.MoveOn.org ).
But even though we were willing to pony up the $1.6 million to pay for it, CBS refused to sell us the time, citing what it says is a 50-year-old policy prohibiting ads that take stands on controversial public policy issues.
CBS claims its policy is designed to keep the Citibanks and Microsofts of the world from buying time to tell Americans how to think. "It is designed to prevent those with means to produce and purchase network advertising from having undue influence on 'controversial issues of public importance,' " the network said this week.
Sounds fair, doesn't it? But what it really means is that if McDonald's buys an ad promoting its tasty Big Mac, no one can run an ad that says Big Macs are full of fat and unhealthful. Pfizer can run a spot saying it's "helping people in need" get medicine, but we can't air an ad saying that Pfizer lobbied to weaken the new Medicare bill to prop up drug prices. Halliburton has slick ads that stress its role supporting the troops in Iraq. But CBS would reject an ad that pointed to Halliburton's profiteering.
The fewer issue ads run, the more time there is for ads with mud-wrestling women selling beer and leggy models peddling fast cars. CBS execs think Americans love mindless consumerism more than anything else and that it's their duty to pander to this.
But with "fairness" doctrines no longer governing the airwaves and the media more concentrated each day, it's getting harder and harder to engage regular people in political discourse. Even the town square has been replaced, in most communities, by private malls, where politics is not encouraged.
Instead of taking every opportunity to promote civic discussion, commercial broadcasters like CBS shrink away. The airwaves are, more than ever, private enterprises. And for that we pay a price: As public political speech becomes more difficult and infrequent, the public becomes less engaged in the policies, processes and laws that govern us.
"Controversy" isn't the real problem. Network front offices love it when one group or another protests sexy babes in bikinis peddling beer brands, or violent video games in which the highest body count wins. That builds buzz.
The CBS policy represents the triumph of corporate self-interest over the public interest. This is the same CBS, after all, that yanked the Ronald Reagan miniseries recently when Republican bigwigs complained. As Sen. Richard Durbin (D-Ill.) noted this week, "These are the same executives at CBS who successfully lobbied this Congress to change the FCC rules on TV station ownership to their corporate advantage." CBS simply would rather not risk offending powerful people in Washington who decide such critical regulatory matters.
But try getting that issue into a 30-second spot for Super Bowl audiences

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 10:09 PM

Or how about the irony of the Dubya White House sponsoring anti-drug ads?

Just say no to fear and loathing on the campaign trail?

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 10:12 PM

Sorry, but I still disagree Openmike.   Since you seem to have watched the Super Bowl as you mentioned the spots they aired, why wouldn't you have boycotted the game if you felt that strongly about moveon's spot not being allowed on?

As good as moveon's spot may be, it doesn't belong on the Super Bowl. The letter you copied makes some good points about the unhealthy product that sells, but if CBS changed it's policy it would open up to every group, right and left, with an issue that they feel is important. This is a network, and believe it or not, it has nothing to do with the right to free speech.

I did not watch the game, not because I was supporting Moveon (although I like their work), but because I don't care for football and all the hype. I'm sure the ads were crap last night. What did anyone expect? However, no one should have the right to tell someone else how to do their business. Even if it is a corporation like Viacom.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 10:18 PM

If the Conservative Broadcasting System was so concerned about not airing advocacy commercials about political issues, then why did it accept and run the Dubya White House anti-drug ad?

I pray the American voters will do to the Bush White House what Frodo did to Mordor.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 10:30 PM

You have a good point guest. I guess the arguement would be, who is pro-drug abuse?

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: open mike
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 10:57 PM

no i did not watch the stupid bowl--never have--always consider it a
day to take a hike or enjoy nature as those who are ususally busy
spoiling it are at home keeping the woods safe for nature lovers..

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 11:03 PM

We thought we'd be really smart one year, when the Dallas Cowboys were playing in the SuperBowl. We'd go to the mall instead and have the whole place to ourselves. Idiotic Texans, they actually closed the malls on that Superbowl Sunday. What a disappointment that was!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 11:10 PM

Worst halftime I've ever seen! Not one artist that I even pay attention to including Janet's bared breast! I kept the TV on mute for most of it. The only thing that meant anything was Jackson's Rhythm Nation which carries positive messages (no to illiteracy, no to violence (some irony there no doubt) etc.) They couldn't have saved that show if he'd ripped off all of her clothes. But what did you expect from MTV? It's no longer even MTV it's all so-called reality shows or rap after hours.

What happened to the music you or I cared about? Do we have to be stuck with "Whatever Happened To" or "I Love The Eightys"!
Two of my favorite stations in the area, one that played classic rock and another that played music from the 70's to today both just changed. One is now all easy listening (not soft rock, more like limpid rock and ever whitney houston song ever recorded) the other is now hip hop. AAaaarrrgggggghhhhh! (Sorry for the rant)

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 12:17 AM

I figure they were just trying to upstage the Madonna/Britney kiss, not that I give a rat's ass. I like boobs quite a lot, though JJ's wouldn't be my first choice, not that I think I've got a choice.

I think we'll see a sudden popularity in that exposed style of nipple hardware. I wonder if she can get NPR on that thing.

(I have to admit I don't have the slightest idea who this Timberlake guy is, or what his claim to fame might be, but I can guess that his celebrity is greater than mine 'cause I'm sure I couldn't get away with undressing JJ.)

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 05:36 AM

Midchuck - you mean that you want to get a mammary into the primary.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 06:06 AM

SINSULL - I didn't ignore your mastitis thread - I even suggested that you should submit a set of photos to Pene.

I think that what amused many of us over here in the UK (especially Linda) was the fuss that's being made across the atlantic, because a breast was bared on television when children might have been watching. Perhaps the nipple ornament might have seemed a bit kinky (where can I buy one like that for Linda ?), but surely most children have seen or know about female breasts - after all for a long while the US has been thought to have rather a fetish about boobs. OK they usually try to make sure that the nipple's just about covered in most cases, but I'm sure that most kids are quite capable of realising that if they have nipples themselves, so do other people.

Omigod - just think about the effect that a bare nipple could have on a tiny baby - would the tot be traumatised for life ?

One of my favourite stories comes from a friend of mine who bought a strapless evening dress to go to a posh dinner with her husband. The next day her six year old daughter told her friends "Mummy looked ever so pretty in her beautiful new dress - it was so low you could nearly see her nibbles !".

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 06:55 AM

There is either a lot of non thinking going on here, or agenda's being pushed. The thought of a breast being bared is not a problem. My problem with this incident, as well as most of what I see in the rap/hip hop video's is the blatant reduction of women to sex toys. Sure I find the whole "sex and naked bodies are tools of the devil" thing repulsive. But I have a real problem with my 12 year old young women being shown men ripping open bodices, and women in music video's whose only function is to rub their ass on the man's penis while he sings about what he is going to do to women. It isn't the body, it is the message.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 07:28 AM

It seems that all she suceeded in doing was making a right tit of herself.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 07:48 AM

The whole super Bowl thing is so typical of the shallowness of modern life that It makes one want to sign off electricity and read Thomas Hardy Books by Candle light. Who the hell is Justin whatever, who cares about a five yard dash that takes twenty minutes to accomplish..like watching a committee meeting. It is all such a farce. Another Jackson, another bore all watched by millions of people who make me sad because they can find nothing better to. What a world we live in.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 07:59 AM

Here are a few wise, choice comments from an opinion piece in today's Washington Post article by Sally Jenkins:

"The blame game has begun. CBS, MTV and a slew of spokespeople are pointing fingers at each other...It's that dangerous rap music that makes kids behave this way, right? But I'd rather point my own finger directly at the league. If the Super Bowl halftime show was offensive and unsuitable for family viewing, I blame Paul Tagliabue and his fellow marketing executives at the NFL. It was their show, start to finish.

Maybe now we'll finally grasp the fact that the league is just another mass entertainment company, the Viacom of sports...

For years NFL marketers have preyed on the sensibilities of the nation to sell their sponsors' products. They have appropriated sex, patriotism, war and even the tragedy of Sept. 11 as commercial vehicles, and used them all to peddle more Coors and cars...

You can always count on the NFL...to seize on the topic of the day and bend it as a selling tool, along with breasty cheerleaders, Britney Spears and faux-militarism, in search of higher ratings and ad revenues...

Never mind that we're in a primary season, that a kid got shot to death at Ballou High and we have a trillion dollar budget deficit.

Let's talk about Janet Jackson's breast...

On days like this, I miss Howard Cosell. I miss his cold appraisals and scathing judgments, and...I suspect that if Cosell were there, he'd have said that while the Super Bowl halftime was a piece of soft porn theater, it was perhaps no more or less offensive than, say, trivializing the Columbia catastrophe with a song and a dance and a phony astronaut planting a flag on a fake moon. Cosell was arguably the last legitimate journalist in sports broadcasting, and he spent the final years of his life railing against the "unholy alliances" between the major professional leagues and the networks.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST,C-cup
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 08:16 AM

They are both laughing all the way to the bank - good luck to them, her boobs, and nipple toy.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 08:17 AM

And anyone who believes this sick, pathetic sports culture is unique to the pros, or has nothing to do with politics hasn't been reading their local newspapers. If they did, they would be aware of the usurpation of our tax dollars to fund the sports stadiums and pay for the recruitment of high school athletes to college sports programs by entertaining the boys at local strip clubs and encouraging underage drinking.

Then after "the big game" the male fans can go out and have a drunken weekend riot--they are just so adorable when they burn the cars of the minimum wage workers who work in the bars and restaurants in the college neighborhoods where they play they rape, pillage, and plunder games, pretending to be the imperial kings of their frat house.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST,Thread creep
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 08:19 AM

To much thread creep here get back to the cup in hand.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 09:04 AM

Dead on, Big Mick. Couldn't be better said.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: harpgirl
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 09:16 AM

Right-O, Mick. Justin Timberlake should have been arrested for sexual assault, don't you think?

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 09:19 AM

"I have only watched one Super Bowl in my lifetime. I find football to be very boring, and the fact that Super Bowl Sunday has become an unofficial national holiday is yet another way that corporate America has sucked in the public."

I can agree with much of this sentiment, which is probably why I don't bother watching many games. But this football game was really excellent. Too bad the rest of the show was such a waste. As for JJ's right breast and its exposure conspiracy, Big Mick has a good point about context. And I don't think Mick would advocate covering up a breast on a statue of Justice as the staff of our Attorney General did in DC.

My family remembers the controversy generated in the 1930's when my grandfather's bronze nude statue "Spirit of the Dance" was installed at Rockefeller's Plaza in New York City; she was ultimately removed from public view to the Lady's waiting room. She's still there, the last time my family paid a visit.

But what a game!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Dani
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 09:20 AM

Here, here, Mick.

Janet Jackson's breast is lovely, but the whole THING was so stupid and offensive. How the hell ARE people talking with their kids, boys AND girls about this? Shouldn't we be telling them that this was NOT ok with us? I was so stunned by the piggishness of the entire show, every single part of that half-time show. It was over before I could even comprehend what I was watching and turn it off.

I despair. Who thought this was entertainment? Are we really being flushed so completely??!!

And when we get ready to move on, can we talk about Aerosmith? I was so disappointed. The rockingest rock band there is, sirens of my youth. It was very sad....

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST,BM
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 09:26 AM

Dani,

You might think that "Janet Jackson's breast is lovely," but I'd much rather look at and fondle a real breast, not a big bag of silicone decorated with cheap jewelry.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Pseudolus
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 09:47 AM

It all kinda goes back to the "who's a role model" question. I think that all adults are by default role models. whether they take on the responsibility is another question. A kid watching that halftime show not only gets the message as Mick said, but he/she is shown by adults that they look up to, that it's "ok", that what they are doing is the norm. I heard talk show idiots say all day that it's only a breast, what's the big deal? I think the big deal is that some young girl, somewhere, is thinking, "Wow, that Janet Jackson sure is brave to do that on TV. One day, I'm gonna be just like her."


Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 09:57 AM

I am amazed at how many people claim to be "shocked" and "disgusted" by MTV and this display. Since the 1960's our culture has been changing to reach this point. Remember when Lenny Bruce was arrested for using certain words in a nightclub? Many of those words are now used here on Mudcat. There were sexual revolutions that empowered people to take control of their own bodies. We may have gone to excess, but I think there were some important lessons.

I am not a fan of the performances that MTV shows, even though I have a close family member that works for MTV management and was very directly involved in Sunday nights half-time show. I do give my children more credit to understand what is peformance and what is reality and what is staged. We take the time to watch with them and discuss.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 10:36 AM

I wonder if Ashcroft put a $5,000 curtain over his TV?

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Bob Hitchcock
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 10:38 AM

What did the NFL expect when they hired MTV to do the half time show? The whole show was an example of the trash MTV is pumping into our kid's brains under the guise of Rock n Roll.

Rock music is now reduced to a metalic pulsating beat accompanied by a set of explicit lyrics which one (1) monkey at one (1) typewriter could have produced in less than 10 minutes. To hell with Janet's breast and Nelly grabing his schlong after every 16 beats and the gyrating scantilly clad dancers and the so called stars of the month lip synching their way through their stupid little songs, if I want to see dancers i'll go to the Ballet.

So Janet, Justin, CBS, MTV and the NFL got just what they all wanted, lots of attention and publicity, no matter how sorry they say they are, their PR agents are loving it. All this fuss so the advertisers can sell us Budweiser to to help us through our Erectile Dysfunctional lives.

I think I'll just boycott everything now.

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 10:39 AM

Yeah. Anyone who knows me knows that I am the furthest thing from prudish. I think it ridiculous that someone thinks they have the right to tell me what messages I am supposed to give my kids. Actually this was pretty timely, given the conversation that my daughter and her friend Hannah had just had the day before. I was taking them to a skating party, and Hannah wanted to listen to a rap station. We put it on the radio, and the lyrics immdiately came from a male singer which suggested all the things that this guy was going to do to the "hoes". I used it as a moment to ask the girls how they felt about being described this way. After a few uneasy moments, Hannah said she just liked the beat. I then went on to describe the music of the late 60's and early 70's that I used to listen to that had a great beat but lyrics that were poorly thought out. This made the girls a little less uneasy, because they knew it wasn't just them. We then went on about how music can be used to shape opinion, and my little Ciara came up with this gem; "Da, I guess when you make music you need to make sure you are saying what you mean, instead of just trying to impress people?" Great kid, that one.

I don't have a problem with folks sending messages, but I think I have the right to tailor that to reflect my values. If this were on a pay per view, or a channel like MTV/VH1, where I know that it is going to be, then I can choose to expose my kids. But when it is thrust upon me when I had every reasonable expectation that I not be in a situation of dealing with it as if it were fairly neutral, that crosses a line.

I have spent a great deal of time trying to teach my children that sexuality is a wondrous thing, that body image does not determine worth, and that women are an equal and extremely valuable part of the wonder of creation. To have all this besmirched on public TV by folks that are not raising my children, and who do not share my sensibilities, as if they have the right to do so, is an insult and very sad.

Interesting, isn't it, that the folks that chose to do this are folks that are not raising children?

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Pseudolus
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 10:41 AM

So Ron, what would they have had to do to shock you? Sounds like you're saying we're gonna get there eventually anyway so let em just have sex if it's just a performance. The point is, it has to stop somewhere. I discussed this issue with my kids as well, and I told them that it was trash, and I told them that just because people are famous, it doesn't mean they can't be idiots.

Frank

P.S. For the record, the language you speak of is not allowed in my house or on the TV when my kids are around...

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 10:42 AM

Harpgirl said:

Right-O, Mick. Justin Timberlake should have been arrested for sexual assault, don't you think?

Why? He was just doing what they did in rehearsal.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 10:55 AM

Powdered ricin (nerve toxin) is detected in the Senate Office Building on Monday, 16 people are decontaminated.

Inject as much as fits on the head of a pin and it is deadly, inhaled as a powder you'd need to inhale a lot more to get sick. Sounds like a sick trick or joke, a stunt intended to terrorize the nation on a big political day (seven primaries and caucuses today).

But what? ABC Goodmorning America gives some conservative twit far too much time to pronounce bad things about Janet Jackson's right tit. For twenty minutes they must have gone on with reaction interviews, after 30 seconds on something that should actually be news.

Get a sense of proportion, America!

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:06 AM

Proportions looked OK to me ?

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:12 AM

Dave...So, rehearsing the assault makes it acceptable? Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:13 AM

"I discussed this issue with my kids as well, and I told them that it was trash"

Doesn't sound like a discussion Frank, it sounds like you were making their decision.

If you read my earlier note, you will notice that I said the half-time show was NOT appropriate for the Super Bowl. What I did say is that I am surprised people are so shocked at this incident. These moves are part of our culture!

Mick said something very important. He has spent time teaching his children that sexuality is a wonderous thing and that body image does not determine worth.   That is the lesson. IF we are all doing that as parents, then I think we can be comfortable that they can watch the junk on TV and separate reality from fiction. If we can teach our children where fantasy ends and reality begins, we have done our job. We can't be scared by the boogeymen of TV - the boogeymen that ALL of us have helped to create.

Remember when Elvis's butt, Jerry Lee Lewis's shaking, and songs like "Wake Up Little Suzie" gave our parents cause for concern? Same story, diffent age. Rock and Roll has ALWAYS been about rebellion and challenging values. Those of you think that it can crawl back to something more innocent should dust off the old Pat Boone records and keep your fingers crossed.

Dave - you are wrong. This is not what they did in rehearsal. The removal of her breastplate was worked out between Jackson & Timberlake. The move was never included in the rehearsals.

Mick - the "folks" at MTV do have children.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:23 AM

not even a breast, really, just a plastic bag with some liquid in it & some skin stretched over it.

o, the outrage! you'd think Bill Clinton was somehow responsible! if not directly involved.

gives the FCC chief something to do for show while he gives away the airwaves to a few corporate interests.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Pseudolus
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:27 AM

See, the problem is, we're focusing in on just the exposing of the breast, that's not what I referred to as trash, and in fact that was only one part of an entire discussion. So no, I did not dictate their opinions in fact I let them speak first so that my opinion would not influence theirs. The entire mood of the dance (as interprutted by my kids) was demeaning. I agreed. It was at THAT point that I told them I felt the whole thing was trash. There is a certain amount of parenthood that involves teaching and at that point, after the discussion, it was time to do just that. I also tried to explain to them that just because they see it on TV, doesn't mean that that's the way things are or should be. Kids are easily influenced and it may seem obvious to an adult where the line is, it may not be so clear to a 12 year old.

I don't own any Pat Boone records but if you think that there's no point in being angered by something like this because change is inevitable, then I ask you again, what do they have to do to shock you? Would getting totally naked and fornicating on the stage have been a shocker? Or just another step in the inevitable chain?

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:43 AM

Frank, you are missing my point. I am not saying it is inevitable, I am saying that we have let culture progress to this point and now we are all shocked by it. It is ironic. We used to laugh when our "elders" complained about the length of the Beatle's hair or the short miniskirts or those kids running around naked or the suggestive lyrics of the Rolling Stones. When we were the youth, we "seemed" to know what was right and wrong. Now that we've become the parents, we are now becoming shocked at what culture is throwing at us. I do agree that what may be obvious to an adult is not so clear to a 12 year old, but I do think they can understand more than we give them credit for.

What can we do? As you say we can teach our children.   We should also try to understand where this culture has evolved from if we expect to have any credence.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:47 AM

So, it wasn't an assault because it was consensual? Whether it was predetermined by JJ and JT alone, or with the approval of the powers is material only to those seeking or avoiding blame. The end result is that it was in poor taste in a time and place where many impressionable young minds were watching. Not that we should be surprised mind you, considering what passes for acceptable behavior in general society and among its leaders, including the TV Gods.

But for heaven's sake, can't this immature, self-impressed, egomaniacal, ill-considered behavior be kept outside of the daytime/primetime slots? Or has money, hype, ego, and image entirely eclipsed good judgement?

What price values?

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:50 AM

Ron ..... I think you know that I am referring to Timberlake and Jackson .... and from everything I have read, including their own statements, this was their doing. That is not to excuse or alibi CBS and MTV. They knew full well that their "stars" would try to garner ratings, and were aiming at the younger audience. They knew that Nelly would grab his penis ..... and condoned, even encouraged it. They were hoping, IMO, for controversy as we all know that is good for business/ratings. That is the reason, IMO, that Jackson and Timberlake felt OK with their decision. Now they are trying to set up the "plausible deniability" gambit.

Busting Timberlake and Jackson would be like busting the street level narcotics dealer. Makes you feel better, but does nothing to resolve the real issue, and that is money.

I repeat..........nudity is not the issue. The message is the issue.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 12:04 PM

Wait a second Mick, you are the one mixing up the nudity with the message. MTV and CBS did not apologize for the tone of their half-time show, they only apologized for the nudity.

You are correct - the NFL knew EXACTLY what type of show they were getting when they hired MTV to do the half-time show. MTV has nothing to apologize for, they delivered what they were asked for.

As for Mooh's point, I'm not sure if I agree with you. Do we consider any stage or film performance an "assault"? This was entertainment, even though most of us agree it was pretty awful.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 12:06 PM

Fair point, Ron, and I stand corrected.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Kim C
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 12:42 PM

Well, I didn't see it, but I feel like I did!

I don't think it's necessarily The Breast that's an issue. There's naked breasts on PBS all the time, and not all of them on women who live in countries where women usually go topless. Context is everything. It sounds to me like the whole halftime show was pretty trashy, which is sad.

But I'm just an unfrozen caveman. I don't understand about these Modern Ways.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 12:43 PM

Sure takes people's attention off of Michael for a while, doesn't it? That Jackson family, what will they think of next!

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 01:08 PM

Ron...No, I don't suppose JJ considers it an assault, but it WAS an assault on [admitedly my] good taste and what I think younger minds should be subjected to. I don't think of it as an assault on JJ either, just horrendous bad judgement. My 12 year old came home from school with several different young teen viewpoints. She gets it, but most of her classmates apparently don't, especially the boys.

Equating this with any film or stage performance might be a stretch. I wasn't aware that the Superbowl has a rating. Does it?

The "assault" aside, had I seen the game I would have not seen the show. None of my family and none of my adult friends (as far as I'm aware) cares for the genre of music performed. Could they not have found something else to present, or is everyone so starstruck and celebrity obsessed that this represents general entertainment?

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Pseudolus
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 01:17 PM

Slight thread drift...someone mentioned the statue (nicknamed Minnie Lou by the way) that Ashcroft covered with a VERY expensive tarp. One of my all-time favorite singer/songwriters John Flynn wrote a song about just that. It's called, apropriately, Minnie Lou and here's a link to John's site with the lyrics....

Frank


Minnie Lou

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 01:26 PM

Mick has articulated (quite well IMO) the issues here. I don't envy you having to raise young girls in this culture/climate with no help from anyone/anything/any institution etc. I was stunned when my own daughter, at the age of 6, would do a bump and grind and sing "Do it to me one more time." The passivity in that attitude hurt me more than anything. Then, for me, a math teacher, to see young girls drop out of math classes, or try to hide their brains...it just hurts. Or in teaching high school just a few years ago, to hear the unbelievable language (often hidden from adults) and to witness the attitudes toward women/rape/violence/detachment. Or to daily witness crotch grabbing, strutting, very, very loud talk, physical intimidation and bullying...very distressing. I really think these issues affect the parents of girls more than anyone, at least for this generation. Mick, take care of those young women. And let us know how we can help the young women in our lives.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 01:38 PM

Yeah, Mary, it is trying at times. The best I can offer is that I take the stuff on head up. I look for opportunities to to have conversation, and then talk about it in a matter of fact way. The trick is to do so without demonizing sexuality. One of the things that our hung up American society has tried to stifle is the natural inclination to explore awakening sexuality. In doing so, they created the backlash we see now, and have seen in the last 40 years. The old Celts would encourage their children to explore these facets of themselves and guide them in a healthy way. We should never deny the sexual nature that we all possess, and nurturing that is, it seems to me, the key to raising well adjusted adults. As a very liberal person, that is what is so troubling about these displays. They seem to want to reduce my young woman to something that I am not willing to allow. This child, indeed all my girls, are being raised to make a difference and leave this place better than what they found it. These types of displays make it difficult, but I will use them as teaching moments as well. Maybe in the abstract, they will even be positive tools.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 02:10 PM

Well Mooh, I'm honestly not sure if there was a rating for the Superbowl. The ratings are voluntary on the part of the broadcaster. You do bring up a good point, there should have been a rating before the performance. I am betting there was.

One aspect that was lost in all of this - the original intent of the half-time show.   It was meant to touch upon the themes of empowerment and getting out the vote. Those ideas were completly lost in the performance and everything, including the game itself, has been lost in the furor of over the breast.

I also think that SOME of these songs and performances also overshadow the many positive messages and images that come across in songs today, even in rap music. There is a great sense of empowerment and self-worth.

Mary, your description of high school with the loud talk, bullying, language, attitudes towards women, etc. - those were issues in my day. There is nothing new under the sun, except maybe we are now wearing our parents hats!

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 02:11 PM

The greatest irony of all--not one of you is faulting the NFL/AFL. They are the ones who pay for gig--including Jackson and whats his puny head.

Even greater irony--none of you fault those who bankrolled the gig--the advertisers.

And some of you fear that 12 year olds don't understand what is happening here? Hell, we're adults, and most the adults here don't get what happened.

Everyone who is a regular non-critical TV viewer who doesn't understand that the trashy half-time show is the MTV entertainment segment of the game, which was aired on CBS, doesn't get it.

They are both owned by Viacom. Michael Powell, chairman of the FCC, is playing the smoke and mirrors game over the FCC controversy about the Viacoms of this world buying and peddling their influence, be it with the FCC, the Republican National Committee, the White House, or the National Football League.

Anybody who sat there watching the Superbowl halftime who claims to have been shocked by the incident is either really, really, really fucking stupid, or playing the game of the Republican right agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 02:13 PM

Frank - John Flynn is one of the best songwriters, performers and human beings to come around in a long time.   His CD "Dragon" was one of my favorites from last year. This is someone EVERYONE should be listening to.

John hasn't yet played the Superbowl, but he has played the Vet many times.   I look forward to seeing him at the new park next year!

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 02:18 PM

Can you discuss the other breast tomorrow I feel sure it has felt left out - or maybe left in, in this case.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 02:20 PM

We have tried to teach the girls in our family that they don't want or have to put up with such touchings, rubbings, etc. unless they want to. And we've tried to reinforce it in positive ways, by empowering them as people ("Heck, yeah, go try the climbing wall!") and then by empowering them so that they can do something about it if they have to ("Jiu-jitsu lessons start in ten minutes, girls!"). And we have tried to explain to them the concepts of responsibility and ethics and self-definition and, frankly, I think we've succeeded pretty darn well. None of them feel inferior to anyone else, least of all to the guys in high school.

To whit:

E, to me: "Uncle Mike, I don't think I'll date in high school."
Me: "Why is that?"
E: "'Cause I've gone to school with all of the guys all of my life, and they're all JERKS!"

Or, overheard, niece M. talking on the phone to a friend (she's 13):
"Well, if he were to try that stuff with me I'd break it off and hand him back a bleeding stump." (I hope that she was talking about the guys hands, but I dunno.)

Their paternal grandmother could have rassled a panther while plowing the fields and feedin' the kids at the same time. And their paternal great-grandmother was even tougher. And both fit the classical definition of "a lady."

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 02:28 PM

Hey Guest - wake up!   The NFL has been blamed by several of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 02:36 PM

MOOH said:
Dave...So, rehearsing the assault makes it acceptable? Mooh.

No, rehearsing it makes it not an assault.   Not tasteful, not good television, not good morals, but not a wrong against her, not an assault.

I guess I should have put a smiley with my comment. But I hate 'em.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 02:38 PM

Well, one of the advertisements that appeared right after the breast baring incident was none other than CBS--again, using JJ's tits--hyping JJ's upcoming appearance at the Grammy Awards this Sunday night on...you guessed it (or should I say, I hope you do) CBS.

Capiche? CBS, the NFL and the FCC all got the halftime show they wanted, and the halftime show they paid plenty to get on in primetime. The advertisers know these viewers better than they know themselves, and gave the viewers just what they wanted and were looking for. If you were shocked, you either haven't been paying attention, or you are doing your best to act outraged on behalf of the Republican Right agenda, which is done to act as subterfuge to things like the Bush budget, the debacle of the FCC rules getting changed under the radar in the appropriations bill, and to deflect attention away from the WMD controversy.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 02:43 PM

Guest - AOL sponsored the MTV produced half-time show. There is a story out that they are now asking for money back. Viacom could lose big money. Capiche?

Although I haven't seen it reported yet, I believe that Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake have been removed from the Grammy Awards in the fallout over this incident. Capiche?

As much as I would like to blame George W. for this incident, I don't think your case holds much water.   This was not a ploy by major corporations, this was Janet Jackson acting on impulse.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 03:04 PM

Who IS Justin Timberlake and why do we care.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 03:12 PM

Dave...Oh. I hate those smiley things too, but only in my own writing. I get ya now. Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Pseudolus
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 03:17 PM

Hey Ron, we finally agree on something! haha! Actually I think we're a lot closer than we sound on this, but the John Flynn thing? I'm right there with ya, "Dragon" is an awesome CD! I have all of his CD's and love them all but "To the Point" also stands out as a favorite to me....

If you get a chance folks, go to the site listed above where you can listen to clips of some of John's work. You can even order CD's online. Hmmm, I wonder if I'll get a commission? HA!

Back to the Breast, I do have a difficult time blaming the NFL for this whole thing. Yeah, they paid for it but there's no indication so far that they actually requested it. The commisioner came out immediately denouncing the incident. I mean the NFL hired CBS and CBS hired MTV and MTV hired Timberlake and Jackson. The performers didn't tell MTV who didn't tell CBS who didn't tell the NFL. I guess my question is, what should the NFL have done differently? I'm not trying to start more of a fuss here I'd really like to know what y'all think...

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 03:33 PM

Since I am not a football fan, I did not watch the SuperBowel. I probably would not have watched it anyway, but I had musical things to do while it was going on, so our modern day gladiators had to do their thing without my observation. As a result, I first heard of Janet Jackson's abrupt décolleté here on this very thread. My response was an amused "Sheesh!" So much for that, I thought.

But yesterday evening, somewhat before 6:00 p.m. I popped on the tube in preparation for watching the Jim Lehrer News Hour on PBS, as I usually do. I was somewhat early, so I surfed through the ghetto of cable news channels:   CNN, CNN Headline News, CNBC, MSNBC, and Fox News Service. The first thing that greeted me as Fox News came on (which I sometimes watch for amusement) was a view of Janet Jackson (bizarrely garbed as usual) prancing about a stage with some dude (Justin Timberlake, I presume—never heard of him 'til now) gallumphing around after her. He reaches around, grabs the front of her dress (or whatever she was wearing), and suddenly, for about a second and a half at most, Miss Jackson's right breast is exposed to the world. All of this at a considerable distance, too far to see anything but a flash of flesh, but no detail, not even the ornate pasty she is said to have been wearing. In the meantime, two talking heads are holding forth in an animated fashion, expressing shock and outrage. Then, through the magic of "instant replay," they showed it again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again....

I changed channels to MSNBC, and there I saw Miss Jackson's sudden exposure again. And again. And again. And again....

ALL of the news channels were doing the same thing. Again. And again.... Even ESPN, of course! Instant replay, after all.

The implication of all this replaying was "Look fast, or you'll miss it!"

On the Jim Lehrer News Hour (a fairly serious news program) they did not lead with this. At the very end of the opening news briefs before going into the longer stories, Lehrer mentioned it with a rather wry smile, showed the clip once, then moved on to the sort of things that a good news program should be concerned with.

As a result of this sudden onslaught of displaying feminine attributes (only one attribute, really) on television, three thoughts occurred to me:—

The first is a comment attributed to King Charles II, said to have been a notorious womanizer. Upon observing a woman in his court who sported a gown with an extremely low neckline, he is said to have remarked to a companion, "God's blood, sir! I haven't seen such a display since the day I was weaned!"

The second thought was in noting how outraged the talking heads were at this "tasteless display"—as they continued the "tasteless display" of Miss Jackson's boob over and over. I just heard a media critic on KUOW (local NPR affiliate) comment that he was at home watching the game and taking notes on his clipboard, and apparently reached for his beer at the wrong moment because he missed it entirely. He saw the clip later (again, and again, and again. . . .), noted that the exposure lasted for less than two seconds and was at too great a distance to see anything. His opinion was that if the news Twinkies hadn't gone up like a haystack on fire, it would not have suddenly become the Story of the Year. If it was intentional, which it pretty obviously was, then congratulations to Miss Jackson, because she has gone a long way toward resuscitating a flagging career.

And the third thought was a restatement of the old conundrum about "why are there so many more horses asses than there are horses?" If one were to take the number of human females over the age of puberty and multiply their number by two, assuming normal circumstances, one would then know how many boobs there are in the world. And yet, the actual number of boobs is much larger than that. It is my belief that many of those excess boobs are in the television news business.

Ruminations on a slow Tuesday morning. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 03:34 PM

Frank, I think we agree on many things, more than we initially realized! We both feel that children need to be "taught", not "told". I don't think either of us felt the halftime show was appropriate for the game, and I think our only disagreement was on how we were "shocked" by the whole thing. If I can paraphrase, you seemed shocked at the trash, I felt that it was what I expected given the way culture has evolved in the last 50 years. It is hard to shock me. I am also a bit jaded being in the profession and having a close relative in upper mangagement at MTV. I don't approve of their programming all the time, but I do admire what they do. They produce some amazing documentaries that no one hears about because the media harps on incidents like this. Rock The Vote has made significant strides in getting young people to register to vote.

As to your point about the NFL.   This was not the first time MTV produced a half-time show. If this "breast" incident did not happen, I think Sunday's halftime show would not have been much of a discussion. The crotch grabbing and language can be seen in many network shows at all hours.

CBS did not hire MTV, the NFL did. The NFL owns the rights to all this. Since MTV and CBS are owned by Viacom, they kept The NFL was given an outline of what MTV was going to present. Once they were sold on the concept, MTV went to work on the details. All the entities were present at rehearsals so they knew what was going to happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 03:38 PM

Oops.. a clarification on the last sentence of my previous post. When I said that all entities knew what was going to happen, I was talking about the overall performances.... they did not know about Janet flashing her boob.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Cluin
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 03:38 PM

Maybe a little more football and a little less hype?

I turned the TV off before the game ever started because I got tired of the build-up. It's just a football game, for chrissake. It's not even particularly good football.

Canadian football! That's where it's at, man. A wider field, only three chances to make a first down, one more man on the field per side, and only 20 seconds allowed between plays, unlike American football which allows 45 seconds of farting around. Oh, and less money involved to screw things up even more.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 03:56 PM

Anyone who believes JJ and Justin were acting on impulse don't get either, IMO. This was a pre-planned, caluculated incident done to generate controversy, and get free pub for them both. Their reputations will not be hurt by this.

The FCC fine is around $28,000 which both entertainers can easily afford. Anyone who thinks Joe Football Fan didn't LOVE the bared breast thing is seriously delusional, regardless of slaps on the wrist in the appropriate places. This so-called controversy is giving both entertainers much more free publicity than an appearance on the Grammy Awards could ever do. And JJ has a new album due in stores soon.

Viacom has already made a pig pile of money on this. They will NOT lose a red cent. They own all the entertainment/media companies that celebrate this sort of stuff. They'll be peddling this Superbowl shit next week on their "100 Most Shocking Moments" shows over on MTV and VH1.

As far as AOL getting their money back goes--oh sure. I'll believe that when I see it. After all, AOL never peddles porn, right? Gimme a break.

I never said George Bush was behind this--you just claimed I did to score debating points.

What I said is this sort of righteous indignation scare is just the sort of mass distraction tactics used by the Republican Right to deflect attention from real, serious news, like the public policy debates it is their duty and responsibility to provide as stewards of our public airwaves. Oh wait--the Republican Right gutted the FCC Fairness Doctrine under Reagan, so they could show this Superbowl shit instead.

The Republican Right got all those "advocacy" ads and public service programs off the air, so the NFL could bring you all that is distracting, including JJ's breast complete with jewelry.

That is just the sort of thing their boys like to see with their football, after all.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 04:05 PM

Thanks for checking in guest.

I apologize for using the word "impulse". I meant to say just what you did, that the act was planned between Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake and that CBS, MTV and the NFL had no idea of their plan.

As to my attributing your blame of George Bush, I think I misunderstood your statement "which is done to act as subterfuge to things like the Bush budget".

I do agree with you guest in your comments about the FCC and the Republican Right. The fact that Powell wants to waste money investigating this and RE-OPENING up the case with Sting is a real sign that power corrupts.

By the way, I do understand that the anti-smoking ad was also allowed on the Superbowl. I'm sure the tobacco companies weren't happy with that.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 04:53 PM

If you want to know where else Viacom can peddle their football porn, have a look-see here at the Columbia Journalism Review's webpage for Viacom, at the "Who Owns What" site:

Who Owns What: Viacom

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 04:58 PM

Yes Ron, it was all there when we were in school. But now it's at least 10 times worse. (and that's a conservative estimate) Anyone who hasn't been in the schools in the last decade (and being a parent doesn't count...just ask your kids 5 years later what really went on) doesn't have a clue to what is going on in the majority of public (and most private) schools. Many classroom teachers don't even see the reality of what a kid suffers. Usually in extracurricular or out-of-the classroom activities the reality shows through.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 05:08 PM

Great... I read thirty column inches of fulminatious debate and not one damn blue clicky to the tit in question...

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 05:08 PM

Bare Breast for the Democratic primaries...

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/kerry1.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 05:54 PM

The majority of abuse suffered by children is in the home. The perpetrators of this abuse are family members. Todays society is a lot more open than thirty years ago. I think this is a good thing, because kids are more likely to have a handle on what is happening and a lot more likely to talk about it.

I don't find a cosmetically enhanced breast offensive. My kids are used to seeing them in all shapes and sizes on the beach every year, it is the norm in Europe.Is topless bathing outlawed in the USA?

I do find beauty pageants where young girls ( and I mean under sixteens) are preened and primped into looking like hookers, extremely distasteful.Some cheerleading can be filed under that heading too. Thankfully not a roaring trade in the UK. I do find porn where women are subjected to degrading themselves, also distateful.Again not a huge UK industry.

Richard and Judy beat Justin and JJ to it anyway, almost.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 06:07 PM

Claymore -

You didn't read the fine print. Look above to:

      From: GUEST,keeping abreast of the issue - PM
      Date: 02 Feb 04 - 03:12 PM

      keeping abreast of the issue (link)

Not a particularly attractive pose, but unusually good resolution (300 dpi) for a web pic.

The most legitimate complaint I've noted was probably from the Scot, professional streaker, who was clubbed off the field, and who felt that JJ upstaged him. Nobody noticed his act.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 06:18 PM

Claymore-

The 6th post did provide a blue clicky. You must have been browsing the posts at warp speed to have missed it.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Dani
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 07:37 PM

Breasts aside... for a moment (even yours, Sins)...

What the hell is all the crotch grabbing about? I don't get it. Or is it just as simple as it looks ("hey, look! All this and I've got a penis, too!")

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: harpgirl
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 08:08 PM

I don't know what the big fuss is about when everyone knows the future will look like this:



http://www.oxfordancestors.com/book_adamscurse.html





We'll do what we want!

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 08:20 PM

Dani, I've assumed it's like wearing the pants unzipped which my students informed me means, "I'm ready."

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: pdq
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 08:33 PM

Thank you, GUEST of 4:53, for the link to:

Columbia School of Journalism, " Who Owns What: Viacom"

MTV, CBS, 60 Minutes, Infinity Broadcasting, Simon and Schuster, etc., etc,, etc., all run by the same people???

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 09:03 PM

I'll take her right breast. Mine was removed nearly 15 years ago!
**BG**




W.E.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 09:59 PM

Is it the wrong color?

Witch don't madder to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Bo Vandenberg
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 10:34 PM

What bothers me is the trash. I think it forcibly manipulates our media and cheapens our society when artless scandal is perpetrated for sensationalism.

I myself wouldnt particularly care if both Timblerlake and Jackerson were topless instead of just artless but I think they put their own fame before the image of the game and their audience CBS either allowed them or aided them. CBS gave them their chance.

I think the theme of nasty sex as entertainment is not appropriate for the venue and it is reprehensible that they could enact this rape then call it a malfunction. Jackson should have been open from the beginning that this was her wish (She now appears to be saying it was part of the act).

Personally I think the government should not try to delineate all the problems with the half time show, of which the Jackson's breast was just one -- they should fine CBS.

According to one web site the FCC has the power to fine up to $27,500 per incident per station. Without splitting hairs I think this should be done and the money given to breast cancer research.

They should kick this into the point where they talk about the money they lost not the flesh they revealed. Make it seem unprofitable to produce such bad TV. Only in the law suites to reclaim some of this money will we ever hear about the real decision for this trash.

I also think it deplorable that the CBS can use its size to scare the FCC. I dont care that 27,500 times the number of their stations might be a big fine. They're big and irresponsible, suck it up.


Breast cancer, women's shelters or some thing that recognises the issue here. Not as a write off, a fine. If CBS complains, open the case and increase the fine.


Sigurd

my .02

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:07 PM

Right on and well said, Sigurd. Your first line should be at the top of a petition that thousands of people could sign and send to the networks and film makers. Good for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Tinker
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 08:08 AM

Just a quick comment from the boys locker room... I sat down with my high school son and asked him to tell me honestly what the word was at school about Janet Jackson. (Urban Jesuit boys high school) The immediate response was " Well, she had to prove she wasn't Micheal somehow. Her whole opening was lifted from Micheal's act."

Okay so mom wanted a little more so I pushed a little... so is it okay to rip a girls clothes off. " If she hadn't planned it she would've bitch slapped him right off the stage, everyone knows that... She's way tougher than him.."   Yes, we need to talk to our kids, but I think they've learnt more from our example than anything they've seen on TV...

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Amos
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 08:37 AM

Well, I think it is a fine breast, and I am glad I got to see it, but I have seen better. In any case it certainly seemed to e consensual exposure, so I dinna think I understand all the kafluffle. Are there people out there who are pretending there were none there?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 09:30 AM

Guest, your "who owns whom" (a reference book, by the way) is something reference librarians have known for a very long time. Spend some time researching the members of the Boards of Directors of various unrelated companies if you want to see REAL incest.

Of course, no one pays attention to librarians....

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 10:04 AM

I am appalled by several aspects of this whole thing..What Americans get riled up about and what passes for news in the USA. For God's sake..an overhyped sports match, an oversexed teen nutter, an overexposed Janet Jackson...WHO cares. Is the world so caught up in this phoniess that it has become reality....what is going on here ?

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Art Thieme
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 11:59 AM

I'm all for it. Unlike most politicians, at least they made a clean bresat of it before they had to nip it in the bud (so to speak). Like Bob Hope. all I can say is, "Thanks for the mammaries."

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:42 PM

David Letterman said Janet and Justin's little stunt meant that he's "no longer the biggest boob on CBS."

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 02:49 PM

First, in order to understand what is going on, you need to know who is fueling the controversy. It is the right wing media (Fox and the other cable news outlets like CNBC & MSNBC) that is keeping the thing going.

Initially, there was a question of CBS having violated FCC rules about indecency (not obscenity, which is a different broadcast standard) by allowing the broadcast of the incident, regardless of who was at fault. FCC rules require the "free" networks to conform to public decency standards that the cable "pay tv" channels do not have to conform to (though your local right wing nuts would dearly love to see changed).

So the groups that have been all over the news this week are the Traditional Values Coalition (right wing nuts) and some other group, also of right wing nuts, and the FCC, CBS, and the NFL.

Yes, the double standard of Nelly (one of the other half-time performers) grabbing his crotch vs JJ & Justin exposing JJ's breast is pretty obvious, but frankly, I'd rather live with little FCC regulation of cable, rather than having cable held to the standards of NBC, CBS, ABC & PBS. We would have even more censorship. People just need to turn off the stuff they don't want to watch, just like they need to not check books out of the library that offend them, IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Kim C
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 03:11 PM

GUEST who asked about topless bathing in the US - it is generally not accepted in public unless you are at a nudist resort. It will probably get you arrested for indecent exposure.

I have always wondered about that, though... I never considered that breasts were "indecent." Well, not most of them anyway.............

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 03:33 PM

there are a 'few' places where topless is ok, but not many (it used to be accepted at a public swimming pool in Austin, Texas)...it is a silly relic of "our Puritan forefathers"

The 'dance'and show that preceeded the unveiling was FAR worse than than the view itself..

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: open mike
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 03:49 PM

there are many places where "skinny dipping" (or chunky dunking as the case may be) are the norm rather than the exception...mostly at more
remote "bodies" of water. Usually not at "developed" public swimming places--more likely at "wild" swimming holes with no amenities/facilities and hot springs are usually "clothing optional" too.

Subject: Nudity and Obscenity
From: Bo Vandenberg
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 03:55 PM

Ontario went through an interesting court case where a bare chested woman was arrested for indecent exposure or some such. She won and it was, rightly argued, that a pair of boobs aren't obscene.

Most of the time I think 'decency' laws are obscene especially if they interfere with feeding babies. I think the whole media control of women is obscene.

If you want to go naked, you want to go naked. You are not advertising yourself for sex. I think nudity would be a lot more healthy if there was more of it.


"Who needs a hobby like tennis or Philately,
I've got a hobby, re-reading Lady Chaterly...."

                               T. Lehrer

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 04:09 PM

Thanks for the replies, explains the hysteria over a breast.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 05:30 PM

Going topless is legal for women in Ontario now. Has been for a few years. Contrary to tight-ass fears (and leerer's hopes), there hasn't been a rush of women to bare all north of the waist yet. Sightings of the well-aired tit in the wild are still pretty rare. The professionals have nothing to fear.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Raptor
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 08:54 PM

O.K. I've got a few problems here!

First How can you blame The NFL for this bullshit when it was obviously a stunt that Janet And Justin did at the last minute? Was it Crazy for them to ask MTV to handle the Music? Or should they have known that, Janet A relitively tame preformer and Justin (wasn't he a backstreet boy?) a kid, that they would use this as a venue for crass promo for JANETS NEW RECORD? They had her brother the baby dangling, child molesting, try to look like a white woman, freak on a few years ago and he behaved!

Second I'm sick of the people here talking about Football and its fans like they are all no-neck barbarians that destroy nature as some pious catter put it!

If you don't get it Fine don't watch it but don't give me this Im a better person than you cause it's beneath me shit!

The minute someone puts up a book thread Its the same sports bashing pompus jerks that get into a pissing contest over whos read the most obscure and intelectual novels You don't see us sports fans making fun of your need to try to impress one another with your bragging about "I've read this, and you gotta try that!

Let me let you in on a little secret. A lot of people watched the superbowl cause they like football and you are insalting quite a few people with your PIOUS I'm better than you shit!

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 09:05 PM

Cluin   says:
      
"Going topless is legal for women in Ontario now. Has been for a few years. Contrary to tight-ass fears (and leerer's hopes), there hasn't been a rush of women to bare all north of the waist yet. Sightings of the well-aired tit in the wild are still pretty rare. The professionals have nothing to fear."

Well hell yes but remember it ain't modesty that's keepin' 'em closed above the waist - its cuz its too damn cold up thataway!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 09:15 PM

Time to check in on this.

Oh the outrage! Oh how offensive! Quick cover your children's eyes.

Meanwhile no one cares when their kid sees a commercial for Viagra.

"Mommy, what's Viagra for?"

"It's nothing, sweetheart. Just medicine so a man can get a boner."

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 10:14 PM

Chill Raptor, it's only football.

I love sports, particularly baseball. I can't stand football for many reasons but that is my own opinions. I'm sure you have sports you can't stand. Nobody is being pious and thinking we are holy than thou.

People are blaming the NFL because they saw the rehearsals and knew what the general tone of the performance was. The NFL official came out and said that there elements other than Janet's boob that bothered them. Talk about being pious!   They hire MTV to produce the show AND they approve of the performers AND they watch the rehearsals, and then they have the audacity to complain about the content of the whole halftime show? Sounds like somebody was playing without a helmet.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Amos
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 10:20 PM

Right on, Ron!! LOL!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Raptor
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 06:36 AM

Ron, Reread these posts! You might see what I mean(you might not). Some of the posts are insulting!
"its Just football"

"Playing without a helmet"

You seem to think putting on a superbowl is so easy that you have time to check out all the rehursals. But you also claim that you have insider information that MTV had no idea that this was gonna happen.
MTV the same crew that brought us these shock value videos in the frist place, The same MTV that had no problem showing us Lil'Kims breast and had no problem with Howard Stearn's Fartman skit!
MTV are the one's that show the crotch grabbing all the time.

If you think that JJand JT rehursed this crap and people knew it was going to happen than you should check any of the hundreds of news stories now out there about the incident to get your facts straight!

One Thing is true that Crap is not acceptable, not that it is a womans breast, But that is is O.K. to rip off the clothes of any one you want to see naked!

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Raptor
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 06:42 AM

By the way did you know that since the incident Janet claimed herself that she staged the whole thing and she didn't claim the NFL put her up to it?

That might suprise you.

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 09:01 AM

The NFL and the advertisers bought and paid for the halftime show. They knew exactly what they were getting, even if they didn't know the specifics of the bodice ripping part--the pre-game hype advertising promised "shocking moments". JJ delivered. The controversy is good for ratings, which is good for advertisers, and good for the NFL.

No one is in trouble for this. In fact, the execs will probably get bonuses and an exotic tropical vacation for all the free media this bought them a week after a game that normally would be totally ignored by now, and pushed aside by other news.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 09:28 AM

Raptor, when and where did I ever say the NFL put Janet Jackson up to it????    I did indeed know that Janet Jackson admitted it, and I commented on it. Also, I NEVER said that people knew about the stunt, other than JJ & JT. Please read more carefully and stop putting words in people's mouths.

NFL executives were at the rehearsals and saw the general tone of the performances. After the incident, they complained not only about Janet's boob, but they also complained about other elements of the half-time show and said MTV would probably not be asked back.   The MTV idea for the half-time show was presented to the NFL as a proposal, and then the NFL hired them to put it on. In the weeks leading up to the event there were numerous rehearsals and the NFL was indeed present.   For them to come back and say they did not want that show is pure BS.

Additionally, I'm sorry if you are thin skinned about some ribbing about football. Yes, it is indeed "only football". If it can't stand up to criticism, then it is also not a real sport. One step away from professional wrestling in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST,Don Hakman
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 11:33 AM

There was no bad taste as far as popular MTV culture goes.

HOWEVER

If Justin had tried to taste that metal clad nipple and
got his tongue piercing stuck in the sun rays of the nipple ring...
Now that would have been a show stopper.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 11:40 AM

And hell of a gob stopper.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 04:45 PM

The only equivilent of gob stopper in the US is a gag.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 04:56 PM

In the interest of capitalizing on bad taste I'm gonna suggest to my sea shanty band that we add this new verse to the old forebitter "All for Me Grog":

Where is me shirt,
Me nobbie, nobbie shirt,
It's all gone for beer and tobacco!
For it's really plain to see
Since I've been on MTV
That me breast is hanging out for better weather!

We're sure to become filthy rich!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Raptor
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 06:03 PM

Ron do you read what you write?

You Said that you" NEVER said that people knew about the stunt other than JJ and JT"

And in the same post you say that "NFL Executives were at rehursals and KNEW what they were getting"

Make up your mind I didn't put those words in your mouth!

I'll spell it out for you I didn't say that you said that the NFL put Janet up to it. You Blame the NFL. Unless they put her up to it How can you blame them?

Now I find out that you were there, Wait before you say I'm putting words in your mouth about being there didn' you say that you knew that Exectutives were at rehursals? How could you possibly know Who was there and what they saw if you weren't there yourself?

And finally I don't give a shit if you like football I'm pretty sure you don't and I think that I can guess why you don't.

I just thought you would consider the difference between saying " I don't like football" And "I think that football is for morons"

Once again I do not mean to put words in your mouth I thought you would care enough about how the words you choose make you sound

Thats where I get PIOUS and Pompus.

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 08:20 PM

Raptor - please pay attention. You are mixing two issues here. I'll try to explain it again.

The "stunt" is the showing of her breast. The overall tone of the performance is another issue.

No one, except JJ & JT knew about the "stunt".   Everyone knew about the overall tone of the half time show (except for the "stunt") and yes the NFL executives were present at rehearsals. The NFL complained AFTER the event about the stunt AND the overall halftime show.

I NEVER, EVER blamed the NFL for the performance.   I said (several times now) that the NFL knew what they purchased and they are trying to save their own face.

PLEASE, PLEASE point out to me where I said "football is for morons".    I am happy for anyone who enjoys the sport. I don't care for it, even if you think you can "guess" why I don't. I'm not sure what you were inferring there.

I'm sorry to drift this thread so much, but I don't appreciate being attacked.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 08:47 PM

Before I am jumped on again, let me clarify. I don't blame the NFL for the performance, but I do blame them for hiring MTV and then saying they didn't approve.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: 42
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 09:46 PM

i never thought I'd say it but I'd rather watch a bunch of baton twirling majorettes with a decent marching band any day.

the three second exposure of the infamous breast was nowhere nearly as insulting as the fifteen minutes of not quite ready for prime time porn which it followed.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Raptor
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 12:14 AM

Ron, All paranoia aside, You are not bieng attacked. I pointed out that some people (I didn't name you)were bashing football fans! You took it upon yourself to answer that post.

If you think you are being Jumped on You better stop reading now!

I was pointing out that some posts are condesending (ex: "Please Pay Attention" OR "I'll try to explain it again")

Most people who condesend don't realize it. I thought you might like to know. You seemed to me to be a nice guy who doesn't want to come off as a know it all. Every post I've ever read by you, that I can think of, leads me to believe that you are a good, Smart man and I didn't mean to imply that you personaly are the one who was football bashing!

But...

"I NEVER EVER Blamed the NFL for the performance"

03.FEB04 2:28pm YOU said : HEY Guest WAKE UPThe NFL has been BLAMED by several of us!
You need to read your posts before you start getting all defensive about what you said!

Better still lets drop this I do not want you to think that I am posting to you and you alone, to Jump on you, or attack you.

I really do respect you and your opinions.
Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 09:26 AM

Thanks Raptor, I asccept your apology and apologize for my being thin skinned about this. I did explain that last comment about blaming the NFL in my previous post - I wasn't blaming them for the breast, just for being hypocrits.

All in all, I am sorry that I, along with most people who post here, fell into this trap. We've let the salient aspects of this story make it into more of an issue than it really is.   In the scheme of things, a 1 second flash on national TV is the least of our problems.

Ron

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 10:39 AM

One of my e-news reports cites an article by Lance Ulanoff, who reports that the "pregame" MTV release that promised "something shocking" was yanked, altered, pulled again, put back differently, etc.

If anyone actually cares what MTV said before the game, the pregame release is now back at MTV Pregame Release, apparently in it's original form, but with an added "editor's comment" inserted, explaining "that wasn't what we were talking about."

Although not too impressively presented, Mr Ulanoff's points about the manipulation of "history" are, perhaps, worth some thought.

As one who's normal interest in either celebrity news or football ranges from who cares to a little south of so what, I did go to the web to see if I could find a little about the persons and businesses involved.

My first conclusion was that, as a DDoS attack on the internet, the media generated frenzy over this was much more successful than the notorious "MyDoom" worm attack on SCO and Microsoft during the past couple of weeks. I found both individual pages and entire sites "operating" - but completely shut down when the "traffic" exceeded site capabilities, and numerous individual pages pulled, apparently in an attempt to control/reduce the traffic. A couple of sites with content about people who's names only resembled names of persons involved appeared to have been simply "turned off" until people get tired of it all.

And they will.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 12:20 PM

For "Shock and Awe" read "Schmuck and Whore"
John

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 04:20 PM

157 posts already, and still going strong.

Breast fixation?

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 04:22 PM

If we have to be fixated on something, why not a breast?

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST,PDC
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 08:35 PM

Sorry, I don't think men are fixated on breasts. Open your pants and look down... ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 10:53 PM

I am not the least bit worried about an exposed breast or two.

However, I am horrified that so many little boys now think it is "cool" to rip open a girl's shirt.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Big Mick
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 11:14 PM

My point exactly, dianavan, with the added concern that so many little girls think that this is what it takes to be a woman. As I said, it's not the breast, it's the message.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Tinker
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 12:09 AM

Mick, I've gotta say I don't think it's a media problem. Those same "little girls" (at least in my town) are dressed by thier parents from the tiniest size in expensive "junior slut ensembles" and it crosses all economic classes. Those feelings are reinforced by the media, but not built by it. My kids do watch a certain amount of MTV and VH 1, but I couldn't get my daughter to wear one of those outfits to a costume party if I wanted to ( and I don't). There are young ladies at her High School who have been very sheltered and who are just searching for ways to rebel and break free.. a lot like when we were in school. We had a few potentially destructive sex and drug peer expectations too.

My 12 year old son was at a coed superbowl party. The boys confessed it was "exciting" , yes seeing boobs is exciting even to bigger boys. But they all clearly got the message it wasn't the way they would ever see one. Didn't even need to be told...the girls just looked at 'em.

Mick, the look on Justin's face just before it happened was that of a little boy who had been handed a nickel and let in a penny candy store. Honest, violent bodice ripping is not something I take lightly. You know that. I can't even sing the Mississippi John Hurt Lyrics to Nobody's Dirty Business cause, I feel abuse is everybody's business. But Janet's stupidity is old news to the kids already. I think it's a grown up problem now.

On a hopeful note New Hip Hop trend the new fashion is traditional dress...And well covered

The Times may make you register, but it's free.


Tinker

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: dianavan
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 01:47 AM

Sorry, Mick. I should have read the thread more closely and I would have totally agreed with you. Its the message!

d

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 02:06 PM

While I don't disagree with your contention, Tink, that parents dress their kids, I completely reject your contention that the media is not culpable. I don't believe that any of the parties are off the hook on this issue. The simple fact is that media...and parents.. are catering to kids and abdicating their responsibilities to teach young men and women that this type of "eye candy" mentality, and this "what I am going to do to your body" attitude is not what women in today's world are all about.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 02:21 PM

The men of hip hop may be changing fashion, but the women hip hop fashionistas are most decidedly getting sluttier and sluttier.

Jayz may be wearing a suit, but "his" woman, Beyonce, is still struttin' in slut wear, as are all the hip hop divas.

Perhaps, in the wake of the decision to banish JJ from the Grammy's but not JT, we should now refer to this as "the double breasted standard". ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 02:45 PM

You and I have our disagreements, but on this one we are absolutely in concurrence. To have not taken Timberlake off the Grammy's is a double standard of the first order.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: dianavan
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 05:00 PM

Is it true? They will banish JJ from the Grammy's but not JT?

If the message was that it is O.K. to rip off a woman's blouse, then the 2nd message is that its O.K. to blame the victim.

I know that J.J. is not a victim but I'm referring to the message going out to the audience. This is deplorable. Think I'll go smash the t.v. Which reminds me...

We did not have a t.v. in our home until my kids were in their teens. It only lasted a year. The kids asked, "Can we sell the t.v. and use the money for new school clothes?" When I asked them why, they said, "Now that we have t.v., we never talk to each other anymore."

They turned out to be very thoughtful, young adults.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 08:48 PM

Here's a piece about it from the Independent in London "The breast has become too big for its own good " - "The moment is here: the female mammary gland should be officially de-registered as an erotic zone..."

Is this really the most important thing that's happened in the States the last week?

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Dani
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 10:10 PM

You are right on the target, Tinker. I am so amazed, and feel like such a prude, when I'm in the mildest of stores (walmart!) and see the racy lingerie for little girls, and the outfits that just scream "SLUT". WHY?! What is the point? The tight shortshorts with the sassy words on the butt, worn on pre-adolescent butts. Who thinks that's OK, and what happens when the butt in question becomes the focus of everyone's eyes, lustful or disgusted? A mother of a 7th grader told me that in the crowd her daughter wanted to hang around with, the gift the girls wished for was thong underwear from Victoria's Secret.

I'm all for a shapely woman's right to dress however she likes (if I looked that good I might dress like that TOO!) but why the little ones? It's so confusing for everyone, in a culture where we don't even know how to talk with each other, let alone THEM about sex.

I'm glad to hear some of you thoughtful people I admire tackling this subject, because it really vexes me.

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST,Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 01:01 AM

Haven't read anything except the 1st 4 or 6 posts here, but . . .


C'mon people, are you really surprised to find the Michael's not the only boob in the family?


:-)