BS: Animal Rights Protesters

Subject: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 10:04 AM

Bunch of weirdo loonies, why dont they fuck off and get a life?

Did anyone watch Treveor Macdonald Investigates, last night?

Theres a guniea, guenia, gi, small animal [rodent] farm and the owners suppliers and staff have been hassled, including death threats,
1 included geting an email, quote "Leave your job, or we'll stab you to death]!

also the grandma of one of the employess died, her body was dug up from her grave and dumped somewhere.

the animals bred there, are used to test drugs for human use, and to help cure disease such as cancer etc.

these people are just nutters and , complete hippocrits., ie they worry about little animals, but are happy to kill people, smash there windows, damage there property etc.

there was one bloke on there, that got 20 years jail, for planting bombs in shopping centres, complete nutters.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 10:08 AM

They should all be rounded up and sold for scientific research

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 10:11 AM

Anyway, the bloke in jail died, starved himself to death, serves him right, hes just a terrorist in my opinion.
and them crazy loonies was holding a memorial service for him!

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 10:13 AM

they should be rounded up and shot.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 11:06 AM

We could hunt them instead of foxes jOhn.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: MaineDog
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 11:22 AM

Secretly, they are paid off by the road kill ---- to let the animals out where the trucks can get them.
MD

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:29 PM

From the dictionary...

Terrorism- the use of terror and violence to intimidate

Yup, they qualify...and then complain about their right to peaceful protest. Since when were making death threats and exhuming corpses considered peaceful protest?

And who the fuck decided that rodents have more rights than human beings?

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 03:40 PM

Well ,right now inthis shitty old world , its kinda hard to determine the rodents from the human beings.

In fact it gives us rodents a real bad name.

I thought from your previous posts B. I., that you were to be a much needed blast of fresh air , but I see you;ve settled in nicely.

Give my regards to the lynch mob..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 03:59 PM

I'm all in favour of ending animal testing, if these hippie whimps will volunteer to step up and have drugs and make-up and such like tested on them!

But I will still wear fur, and leather... and eat meat!

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: el_punkoid_nouveau
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 04:05 PM

If every right has an equal responsibility - what responsibilities do animals have?

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 04:05 PM

Lynch mob? So, by finding the actions of a violent group of extremists abbhorent, i am now a member of some imaginary lynch mob?
For fucks sake...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: MMario
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 04:08 PM

technically - shouldn't 'animal rights protesters' be people protesting against rights for animals?

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 04:13 PM

Maybe they are. The weirdo loony ones ones certainly aren't doing anything positive for the cause of animal rights...in fact, they're probably having a negative impact. The ones who are conducting peaceful protests have quite sensibly distanced themselves from the arseholes.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 04:28 PM

" i am now a member of some imaginary lynch mob?"

No yer not BI... It's like HATING Nazis, for example... that doesn't make you a bad person...

It's like hating people who will step over one of their fellow human beings laying in the street in a puddle of his own filth, to throw red paint on a woman wearing a fur coat...

It just means you have yer head properly screwed on....

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 04:33 PM

akenaton-I don't understand your post, or the point your'e making.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 04:46 PM

In general, Human beings are not better or more deserving than "animals".
We are in fact animals ourselves,and in my opinion many of our species are pretty far down the food chain.

This thread has started of with a typical Mudcat knee jerk reaction, hense the "lynch mob " remark.

Animal rights ,including intensive farming and other abuses will have a very important role in any political change in the UK or US.

So dont write it off as "the lunatic fringe"

Time will indeed be the revelator...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 04:50 PM

If things had turned out differently you can bet the mink, given half a chance'd be walking around in OUR skins...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 04:54 PM

Maybe but I bet he wouldnt like our heads on his shoulders

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 04:57 PM

Akenaton-did you watch the programme I refer to in my opening post?

These people are lunatics and criminals, they are prepared to kill, injure and terorise people for the sake of a few guneia pigs!

The company concerned, Huntingdon Life Siences [www.huntingdon.com], carry out life saving research into cancer and numerous other diseases, yes they use a few hamsters etc, so bloody waht!
If it would cure cancer, I would quite happily kill all the hamsters in britain!

The company also test animal treatments to save the lives of pets and farm animals, but the animal rights loonies won't mention that.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 04:57 PM

Just for once I agree with John 100 percent.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Cluin
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:01 PM

Always a lunatic fringe somewhere. Tom Cochrane had it right.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:03 PM

John...tey've been carrying out cancer research on animals since I was a boy and are still no nearer a cure.

Not to mention all the animals killed in research into cosmestics ect ect

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:03 PM

People are animals, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:04 PM

"Animal rights ,including intensive farming and other abuses will have a very important role in any political change in the UK or US."

Yes, if these issues are debated and protested over in a peaceful manner... sending death threats to employees of research companies is not peaceful protest, it is harrasment. Apart from anything else, these arseholes are damaging their own cause by resorting to such levels of idiocy. They are the lunatic fringe. Those who are speaking out for animal rights in a peaceful manner are not...and even if i don't agree with them, i defend their right to do so.

I don't think cosmetics should be tested on animals, simply because it's unnecessary; but given the choice between allowing a human being to die from disease and allowing an animal to die through research that could have saved that persons life, i would save the human. Sorry, but i outgrew the teachings of Anton Lavey some years ago...anyway, i must get back to my kneejerk responses and lynchings.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Cluin
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:09 PM

Not to mention all the animals killed in research into cosmestics

Well, that's true and it IS deplorable.
Disease research is one thing, but...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:09 PM

"are still no nearer a cure"
Now that is just so much bullflop.... We get closer everyday...

" Not to mention all the animals killed in research into cosmestics ect ect"
You'd rather it was people? Or that cosmetics and such hit the market UNTESTED?

No thanks...

" i outgrew the teachings of Anton Lavey some years ago"
*gasp* *shocked* *Horror* Blasphemer!    LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:13 PM

No, you misunderstand me, i'm his successor...don't tell anyone, though...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:14 PM

Ummm... You may just have told everyone....

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:15 PM

Whoever mentioned minks wearing our skins was probably right. Some animal right protesters freed a load of minks from a mink farm - they completely devastated the local countryside and its indiginous animals. Nasty little buggers apparantly!

I agree as well. These people want their heads examining - I think any decent person is against cruelty of any kind but if the research is necesary and the animals suffer no more than necessary why are they so against it? Particularly the ones perpetrating violence!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:16 PM

Anyway=cosmetics etc should be tested on animals, waht if it fell onto a dog?

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:19 PM

And what about the people suffering both directly, as a result of their violence, and indirectly, as a result of their disrupting medical research?

If they come anywhere near me, i shall set the dogs on them. Then we'll see how much they love animals...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:20 PM

"Some animal right protesters freed a load of minks from a mink farm"

The story that I heard was that the minks all died horribly becasue they had been bred in captivity, and had NO CLUE how to survive outsdie...

Which, I think, paints the protesters as even stupider!

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:20 PM

if they come near me, i'll set my hamster on them.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Cluin
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:24 PM

Is it an attack hamster, jOhn? Did you train it to go for the yarbles?

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:24 PM

Lol, jOhn!

I once saw someone go off on one about a fur jacket...and then getting all uncomfortable when the fur jacket wearer pointed out that the guy was wearing leather shoes...so, if it squeeks it's got rights, if it moos it can go fuck itself?

Of course the funniest bit was when the fur jacket wearer shouted after him- 'Anyway, it's fake you wanker!'

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: GUEST,smiler
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:28 PM

There is no evdence that the grave in question, was dug up by animal rights protesters.

Why would they?

This smacks of dirty tricks, by the pro vivisection lobby.

Demonise the enemy.

Btw. Huntingdon Research Centee were the subject of an undercover television investigation, which resulted in several convictions for animal cruelty.

Later, their director Brian Cass was strangely awarded an OBE.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:34 PM

Why would they? See above definition of terrorism.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:34 PM

BI The threats and actions you speak of are in fact "economic terrorism" a subject which has been discussed on other threads,and a tactic which will be used more and more as groups short circuit our phony "democracy".

Its also very effective as has been proved at Oxford.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:38 PM

So you are now advocating the use of terrorist tactics to undermine democracy for the purpose of stopping essential medical research?

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:38 PM

Mailing death threats and freeing animals who are incapable of independant survival are not "economic terrorism"...

They're stupid... and only serve to give these people even 'shakier' ground to stand on...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:40 PM

And Clint...Im afraid youve got your facts wrong.

Mink do infact breed very well in the wild, we've got lots of them here in Argyll
They do tend to take a lot of fish , they're very voracious..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:40 PM

Let's go back to the dictionary definition...

Terrorism- the use of terror and violence to intimidate

Sounds to me to be exactly what they're doing.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:42 PM

smiler-there were 2 prosecutions relating to animal welfare, brought against employees of Huntingdon.
The protestors have dozens of convictions, assault, criminal damage, planting bombs in shopping centres [resulting in a 20 year jail sentence], etc etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:42 PM

And let's screw over the ecosystem while we're at it, eh? Why not add hypocrisy to our list of good deeds...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:42 PM

The terror Im referring to , is the terror shareholders feel when their stock is about to nose dive...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:45 PM

And what were they trying to prove by planting a bomb in a shopping centre, exactly? Oh, lets blow some people up! Wow, maybe we can get a few kids! I sure hope so, the little bastards are ruining the world for all the rodents! Yeah, we'll leave a few maimed and bleeding children around...that'll really help our cause...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:46 PM

Brian Cass was awarded a CBE, not an OBE.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:46 PM

I didn't say they didn't Ak... read what I posted instead of what you want to see...

The ones that were freed, were bred in captivity, and had NO survival skills... so the couple of hundred that were released by a passle of idiots, all died horrible deaths of starvation and such....

Of course mink survive in the wild.... provided that's where they came from...

"let's screw over the ecosystem while we're at it"
I think we should 'get' it before it 'gets' us!

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: GUEST,smiler
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:51 PM

I define terrorism as causing terror.

This counts for those in white coats abusing animals in laboratories, in the name of research, while we haven't even cured the common cold!

As far as I'm concerned all economic damage goes, as governments don't listen.

You're more likely to find news of a new medical “treatmentâ€쳌 in the finance section, rather than the news pages of your newspaper.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:54 PM

Clinton ..Sorry, I did misread.

What you were saying was, too many mink were released to survive on the food available..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:58 PM

We don't need a cure for the common cold. We do need cures for plenty other diseases, cancer for example...but oh, we haven't cured it yet! That means it'll never happen, of course, following the same logic as, 'I haven't learned to ride a bike yet, so i never will'.

Trust me, i hate Rich Bastards inc. as much as anyone, but unfortunatly it they who are funding the medical research that is making progress into curing diseases such as cancer, which, may i remind you, we have a one in three chance of contracting during our lifetimes...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:59 PM

No... what I'm saying is the mink released from this fur farm had NO survival skills, like ANY animal bred in captivity... Like any idiot who ever watched the Discovery channel coulda told them...

So, the 'protesters' ended up killing exactly what it was they were trying to save...

Animal rights activists all seem to me to be exactly like "Brent" as played by Seann William Scott in the movie "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back"

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 06:00 PM

No, the mink were released having been reared in an environment where they did not develop the skills necessary to catch their own food..

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 06:00 PM

BI....Your beginning to sound like Martin Gibson with P M T...

Of course I dont agree with bombs in shopping centres.

There are of course real loonies in every grouping.
Even the hunting fraternity

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 06:02 PM

Especially in the hunting fraternity....

But you think that mailing death threats to the employees of reasearch institutes is acceptable? Mailing death threats to their families? Friends?

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 06:04 PM

Contrary to popular belief, it is possible to conduct a debate without resorting to cheap insults...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 06:05 PM

"conduct a debate without resorting to cheap insults"

But then it wouldn't be Mudcat!

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: GUEST,smiler
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 06:07 PM

Hull

Sorry I meant CBE, also two convictions rather than several.

This doesn't affect the debate in question. You've obviously done your google tonight.

Now that huntings gone in England and Wales, the animal rights lobby can focus its attention on ending vivisection asap.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 06:08 PM

Clint...All mink in this country were origionally released from captivity. their survival and breed ing skills must have ben adequate ,as there are now million of the bastards...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 06:08 PM

No, CH, i'd be civilised :0)Sheeesh, civilisation...whatever happened to that idea?

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 06:17 PM

You don't know Mudcat at all do you BI???

Ake... you obviously don't have half a clue what yer talking about, so I'm done with ya...

This is a BIG difference between an introduced population, and what those idiots who cleared out the mink farm did...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 06:26 PM

And by the way...If your all so keen on irradicating cancer, would'nt the total ban on the production of ciggies help.

(For all you cancer causing "auld reekies")...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 06:38 PM

Terrorism is wrong. That's generally accepted. However, it seems to happen when large groups of people are ignored or 'deflected' by an unequal application of THE LAW. It tends to result from groups having their concerns ignored, and then the groups decide that the law does not equally work on their behalf and so why stay inside the law?

The whole area of research using animals needs serious review. I agree with Cluin who posted above and said that when the research is done to produce shampoos and soaps, that's maybe not at all cool (my words, not his). When it's done to further knowledge about things deadly to humans, maybe there is reason to use the animals.

When I said that people are animals, too, it was not to be flip. We know that children who are cruel to animals carry that habit into their later lives, and they then transfer that cruelty to members of their own species. It becomes a matter of degree as opposed to a matter of right/wrong. If the act of torture becomes something to which we inure ourselves (and holding open the eyes of rabbits while shampoos are tested on their eyes is an act of torture regardless its other motives), then doing so to humans is an easy next step.

I think it dehumanizes US as people to do that type of thing to any creature. It is not a good enough argument to me that we are the top of the food chain and therefore we can do it because we want to. We are also at the top of the intellectual 'food chain', and that means, IMO, we should be above it, not part of it. We wouldn't like it done to us; therefore, we shouldn't do it to others.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 06:50 PM

Well said Brucie...The voice of reason among the howls of invective.


And if anyones interested Clint is talking bollocks...
Mink were never native to the British Isles all mink now breeding here ,origionate from mink who either escaped or were released from mink farms.
They have taken their freedom ,like the proverbial ducks to water, are so numerous in many areas as to be considered a "pest"..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 07:20 PM

Ake,

How are you, buddy? It is great to see you posting again. I have missed you on the threads very much. We don't always agree--you being much more often the voice of reason--and I have missed you, because you often make me sit back and have a good look at things.

Take care my friend.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 07:44 PM

"We are also at the top of the intellectual 'food chain', and that means, IMO, we should be above it, not part of it. We wouldn't like it done to us; therefore, we shouldn't do it to others. "

Precisely... and would these extremist animal rights protesters like to be sent death threats? As i have said before, i am not against animal rights protesters, i am against those particular animal rights protesters who behave in a threatening and/or violent manner; as indeed, i am against anyone who behaves in such a manner. To me, that is dehumanising.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 07:56 PM

Dehumanising????

Thats either a very funny joke
Or one large heap of crap

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 07:58 PM

Please explain why?

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 08:08 PM

You live in a world where we humans have been inflicting the worst sadistic horrors on one another,far too numerous to list ,but the jewel in the crown must be the slaughter of the innocent children in Baslan.
We have become so immune to this horror ,that the vile act has already started to fade from our memories, to be replace by some other worse crime
And you can still speak of being dehumanised!!

As a species, we dont deserve the life of one innocent animal..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 08:16 PM

Anyway... young girls should be in bed at 1:30am.

Im off to mine ...Good Night ..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: GUEST,Colyn
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 08:29 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 08:32 PM

Oh yes, we're a bunch of vicious bastards at times...but there are still a lot of good people out there, and there is still reason to hope for improvement.

The reason these atrocities are so abbhorent, is that we have the capacity to understand that they are wrong and still commit them- ie, we are able to formulate and live by moral codes, and that is what i mean by humanity. Therefore, when i say an action is dehumanising i mean it is contrary to our morality.

I do not appreciate being patronised, by the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: GUEST,Colyn
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 08:33 PM

A dentist I know had a patient wearing some sort of Animal Rights badge. Patient had a tooth needing to be extracted.
Dentist picked up his forceps and told the patient to hold tight to the arms of the chair.
"Arn't you going to give me an injection?" squealed the patient.
"Sorry, no. They have all been tested on animals".

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 08:57 PM

Wow. Your dentist friend is a real wit.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 09:32 PM

Ooooo Sorree Miss BI.


I take it its crap then?

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 09:38 PM

I am trying to explain my opinions by outlining the thought processes that led to me holding those opinions. If you are not willing to even attempt to understand them, and are going to resort to childishness, i won't bother.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: GUEST,Been There, Seen That
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 10:37 PM

Ake, six years ago and about 1000 yards from where the keyboard on which I'm typing is located, animal rights terrorists released 2210 farm-raised mink from their cages in what they charactorized as an attempt to "liberate the prisoners of bourgeois Amerika" (I remember because I didn't think the middle class could afford to wear mink, but I digress).

About 1700 of these animals were recovered the next morning, most sitting under their open cages waiting to be fed. The local DNR office (state department of natural resources) reported that at years-end 367 dead mink had been reported in the county (in a normal year, it's about 50). See if your'e smart enough to do the math yourself.

Even if one agrees that animal farming is reprehensible, "liberating" non-feral creatures only serves to change the method of death for these creatures. Your assertion that they can survive once released is a wistful fantasy whether you choose to admit it or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 12:02 AM

Thanks for clearing up the example that I could only recall, as if through a glass darkly!

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 03:05 AM

Of course it's a shame that i don't prescribe to that particular brand of misanthropy. Hey, i'm no better than animals! Woah, that gives me the excuse to do lots of disgusting stuff, and not feel guilty about it...i'm only acting on instinct, right? :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 04:04 AM

I think the truth with the mink lies somewhere in the middle. It does seem that the majority of mink bred in captivity do not do to well in the wild but I think some do survive and thrive and there are other factors animal liberation releases that have not been considered but may distort the picture somewhat. Let's not forget there have been huge efforts to re-capture the animals and that some of the dead will have been shot by farmers worried about them.

Whatere, we can argue the figures as much as we want but what I question is if mink bred in captivity that either escape or are released irresponsibly into the wild have zero chance of survival, how come we have populations of mink in the UK that are so succesful they are a concern? Mink are not indigenous, and there has been no program to introduce them into the wild that I'm aware of. Where did our wild mink come from if not from escapes and releases from captivity over time?

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Gervase
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 07:25 AM

Mink do survive and thrive in the wild in the UK, and have become a serious pest. Of course, the mink-hound packs that hunt them will have to stop now.
I've always been under the impression that many extreme animal rights activists latch onto the issue because it's an easy, uncomplicated bandwagon to follow. Child poverty, the arms trade and other ethical areas are fraught with pitfalls, and quick and spectacular results aren't possible. Yet smash up a few cars, post some shit through a few letterboxes or burn down a building or two and you have instant catharsis, coupled with a feeling that you've really done your bit for cuddly creatures.
It's a lazy, simplistic and ultimately selfish form of terrorism, IMN-SHO. Yet a lot of people in the UK will have sympathy for them, not knowing what violent, sociopathic sods the hard-core activists can be. You can see old ladies in shopping centres every weekend signing petitions and donating money to the apparently unarguable cause of animal welfare.
Maybe they should take a look at what happens at the sharp end of that cause. These are just the activities that the activists are prepared to brag about.
They are terrorists - stupid, woolly-minded and naive terrorists. They have already seriously injured a 13-month old child and a six-year-old girl, and before long they will kill someone. Maybe then (Guest) Smiler will feel that something worhwhile has been achieved.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 07:36 AM

I notice on the site that Gervase links to, that on the 1st of october 12 year old children damaged someones car, marvellous, tell your kids to go round smashing cars up!
Hardly peaceful protest!

In my view these bastards are as bad as the BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 07:40 AM

Another article says-"Frogs Liberated"
havent these silly bastards got anything better to do?

Note that on that site, there are hundreds of protests mentioned, just about every single one of them is a crime, ie criminal damage, trespass, assault etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Crystal
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 07:59 AM

>And by the way...If your all so keen on irradicating cancer, would'nt the total ban on the production of ciggies help<

Yes, it would cut deaths by lung cancer by 85%.

There is a card you can get which states that in case of serious injury/ hospitalisation you do not wish to be given any medicans that have been tested on animals.

Basically all that can be done is to wrap you in a cotton bandage and wait for you to bleed to death (or for a mirical)

I wonder how many protestors carry that one then?

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 09:59 AM

I will not give way on the subject of mink.
Perhaps the terrain in America where they were released was unsuitable, but in the UK and in my area in particular, mink thrive in the wild...Whether this is for the long term good of the indigenous species is another question.

On the subject of protesters, "economic terrorism" as practiced by the Animal rights movement will soon become a model for disenfrachised grouping both here and in the USA.
Given the direction being taken by the Bush regime, I think we are going to see rather a lot of it.

Maybe the left in America who have been cheated of power twice in the last decade will at last decide on direct action...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 10:05 AM

Go to a lab... buy a mink... take it home and let it loose in the back yard... you'll have a maggot bloated DB in hardly any time at all...

"will soon become a model for disenfrachised(sic.) grouping"
So in other words, "Oh whaaaa... the world isn't exactly the way -I- want it to be, so I'm gonna be a suck and throw a tantrum till I pass out or until a cop bashes my head in with a club"

Well, as long as you ONLY hurt yourself, go right ahead... the world needs more Darwin Award Candidates

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 10:06 AM

Do you never go to fucking bed?

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: *Laura*
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 10:51 AM

I think if humans want cosmetics - they should test them on other humans.

I have not yet made my mind up about the disease thing though - I don't know enough about that area of it.

Isn't mudcat great? You can have a nice, civilised, face-to-face argument with someone miles away without resorting to 'shut up you vicious bastard!' hehehe.

xLx

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 05:10 PM

"Yet a lot of people in the UK will have sympathy for them"

What do you expect coming from a country that donates more to animal charities than it does to childrens charities? Priorities aren't our strongpoint...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 05:27 PM

"I think if humans want cosmetics - they should test them on other humans"

Exactly. Nobody's going to die because they're not wearing lipstick, are they?

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 05:33 PM

"You can have a nice, civilised, face-to-face argument with someone miles away without resorting to 'shut up you vicious bastard!"
Some people can... Ake obviously cannot...

"Nobody's going to die because they're not wearing lipstick"
I donno if that's a chance I'm willing to take!
LOL

*walks away singing* "I'mmm soooo pretty..... "

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 05:52 PM

Whats the difference between Clint and Martin??

Martins' got a sense of humour :>}

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: LilyFestre
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 05:54 PM

My husband is a research scientist who does conduct research using animals. Let me add that he loves animals more than most people. I think it should be pointed out that many institutions that conduct animal research do so with great care and use most, if not ALL of the animal for various research. One lab gets this part, one lab gets that part, etc. Not much is wasted. Before too many of you jump on those who conduct such research, think about the thousands upon thousands of people whose lives will be touched. I'm not talking about cosmetics, but medical research.

Do you know anyone how had a child that was born prematurely? The research conducted by my husband's lab studied brain development of premature animals (won't say what kind as there are some seriously disturbed and scary people out there). By studying the dendrites of these animals, it became clear that dendrite growth is much slower and never fully develops on those (humans/animals) who are born prematurely. This lab found that certain fatty acids and lipids added to the premature infant's diet increased the growth of the dendrites, hence increasing the chance of a more "normal" development of the brain. Infant formula can now be found in local grocery stores with these lipids/lipils added. Think of those septuplets...the McCoys I believe....without such scientific research, many of their children would not have developed as much as they have. Children with lower birthweights simply were not surviving.....now they are...and it is due to the animal research that has been going on. Think about it....do you know anyone who has had a premature infant? That's just one small facet of animal research and how it can effect millions of lives.

When my husband was hired at this lab, I expressed concern. He assured me that the animal care was better than most animals receive in regular homes. They are fed, cleaned and monitored hourly. I would like to think that the majority of labs treat their animals as such as they are giving their lives in return for valuable research. The labs that do not maintain these standards, in my opinion, should be shut down and put out of business.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: GUEST,Colyn
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 06:24 PM

A very cogent argument, Michelle, and results of trhat research were published in national newsdpapers a few weeks ago.
As a medical person myself I also fully understand the reasons for research on animals and the benefit it brings to (wo)mankind.
A simple example is the number of children today growing to adulthood compared with the numbers 150 years ago. And yes, animals were used in medical research even then.
Colyn.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 06:56 PM

"do you know anyone who has had a premature infant?"
There are too many people who seem to be permanent infants... when can we get some animal research to cure them?

Myself I must admit, I prefer peppermint infants...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Boab
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 03:00 AM

The guys who released the mink from the farm were stupid; but no more so than those who dress themselves up to look like ginormous mink with a human head, thus giving stupid "mink farmers" the incentive to treat yet more mink with kind hospitality.
   I eat meat. Mostly deer from a free-run property. I eat fish. I play a bodhran made of goatskin. I detest beef--so all you ranchers and feedlot wallahs can disappear if you like. We don't need to wear furs in these "enlightened" days. So I have no great disdain for those who heave paint at the "I wanna look like a beastie" brigade.
There is a balance to be struck in all human affairs; consevation of wild species is one matter which needs redressing; too many have gone, too many will inevitably go. Like all human endeavours, two extremes are engendered; the one on the right is as loopy as the one on the left.
    Er----sorry about the bodhran------

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Boab
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 03:03 AM

---and sorry about the "r' missing from "conservation".[!!!]

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 08:27 AM

Most of the labs will not allow independent inspections of their procedures, or inspection of animals during experiments
.......WHY?

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 08:34 AM

99...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 08:39 AM

Im against all abuse of animals, including those bred for food.

But I suppose a case could perhaps be made for some medical research, personally Im not convinced, for many reasons.

My point is that animals are used for all types of commercial research, not just medical.

I repeat my point, if we really want to make a difference to the health of our nations, stop slaughtering animals and totally ban cigarettes, or those who use them.

Perhaps all the smokers would like to put themselves up for medical research, if all those with tobacco induced heath problems were forced to submit to research, tobacco consumption would stop overnight ...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Crystal
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 09:13 AM

>Perhaps all the smokers would like to put themselves up for medical research, if all those with tobacco induced heath problems were forced to submit to research, tobacco consumption would stop overnight <

Probably yes!
However if all the animal rights activists put themselves up for medical experiments we wouldn't have to use animals in medical experiments and everyone would be happy!

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Peace
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 10:20 AM

Excelsior!

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Davetnova
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 11:16 AM

In virtually every book or article I've read on prehistory. The start of our road to the dizzy hights of civilization we inhabit today is marked by our ancestors testing their primitive tools on animals. About the only consistant things humanity has ever done have been to kill imprison and torture animals for out own benefits/comfort/pleasure. I think these actions may well define our species. We have now reached a stage of civilisation in some parts of the world where we don't need to wear furs to keep warm. We can wear synthetics. We don't need to kill animals to eat. We can open a tin. We don't need to bait badgers(except in Hull) We can watch I'm a Celebrity. We are being seperated from the core of our being. If you don't want to do anything to animals fine get on with your life and I'll get on with mine.
And why are Animal Rights Activists always on the left politically?

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 01:25 PM

"stop slaughtering animals and totally ban cigarettes"

That's beautiful... hug a rainbow!

*rolls eyes*

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 01:29 PM

Well Clint ..Its only a matter of time .

In Scotland we already have a ban on smoking in public places.

*Rolls a joint*..

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 01:32 PM

"Its only a matter of time"

You tell yerself whatever you gotta to get through the day... Maybe one day it'll become a reality...

I'll be over here, NOT holding my breath...

Hope it works out well for ya....

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 01:38 PM

You too buddy.....Enjoyed the argy- bargy...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 01:42 PM

Jeez, i hope you're not going to smoke that joint...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 01:51 PM

Smoke it??   Are you mad, you know we scots sprinkle it on our porage.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 01:54 PM

I don't. I made a bhong of such massive proportions, i called it the Loch Ness Monster...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: LilyFestre
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 03:01 PM

"That's beautiful...hug a rainbow"


ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Best laugh I've had all day....get over here and I'll hug you..the heck with the rainbow....LMAO!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 08:39 PM

Hugging a rainbow here, eating meat, smoking a fag and knowing that PETA people are all insane.....I also know that ake seems to be a pillock...not that I'm calling names...He just likes to kill things by 'freeing' them....Me, I kill them honestly and humanely, with a bullet or a hatchet. Eat en too. Seems Ake prefers them to starve or die fighiting. Just my take on this.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 09:02 PM

PS...meant to say, by starvation, infection from wounds, and releasing domesticated animals into an unfamiliar envriroment where they can't survive.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Peace
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 02:29 PM

It is estimated by the estimation people--no one actually knows who they are, but they help shape our culture in lotsa ways--that the average person swallows 6 spiders in his/her lifetime. If yer above average it may mean ya swallow ten or eleven, and if yer below average ya may swallow one or two. Superiorly above average people eat them by the dozens, but because they really screw up the stats, the folks who estimate jus' don't include them. Strange, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 02:31 PM

What it really means is spiders are trying to choke us in our sleep.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Peace
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 02:32 PM

PS I know spiders are not animals, but I once had two tarantulas that were as hairy as yer average Pekinese dog, and they are living things, and we eat them live while we're sleeping. Like, how cool is that? Of course, I presume these are small spiders, because if ya ate a tarantula who didn't wanna be et, he/she might have somethin' to say about it and simply rip yer throat out as it was on its way to your tummy. Maybe not.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 03:18 PM

I'm going to have nightmares now...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 05:40 PM

Im disappointed that you think me a fool Sorcha.

Iv had a quick skim through you posts and failed to turn up many "pearls of wisdom",so maybe it takes one to know one ...Eh?

I never said I support every action taken by activists, releasing laboratory bred animals into an unsuitable environment is of course extremely stupid.
However ,I do support their actions against commercial laboratories,
actions that continue to be very effective.

There is obviously strong feelings here about animal rights activists, but I feel more people are upset and frightened over the success of the direct action than the principles involved...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 05:45 PM

"you think me a fool Sorcha"

Sorcha is a wonderful judge of character

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 06:00 PM

I feel upset and frightened by the violent methods employed by some activists. Whether or not i agree with their cause is secondary... i find their methods abhorrant. They are exhibiting the cruelty the claim to be against.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 06:06 PM

This is very weird ...Do you think there are only three of us left alive!!...ake

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 06:37 PM

Three of who left alive?

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 06:52 PM

You ,me, and Clint....I think were the last three mudcatters

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 06:53 PM

I bloody well hope not! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Boab
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 06:54 PM

"Porage", Akenaton---"porage"? Whit in the name o' the wee man's THAT?? "Porridge" is the Anglified name for "parritch". I think maybe ye've been talkin tae the Royal Family?

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 06:57 PM

Boab ....Thank god I thought it was just Ake, BI and Clint,

Now we're four ....Three Scots and a numpty ..

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 07:00 PM

I'm a Scot and a numpty....:00

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 07:05 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Boab
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 03:35 AM

Jeeze--thanks B.I. ---Ah thocht it wis me------!

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 12:53 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 02:25 PM

Shut up alla you! I'm tryin' to have a nap in here!

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 02:27 PM

Tony Blare said they are rubbish, and he's going to sort them out.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 02:55 PM

He'd be better sortin out Blunkett...Witha packet of condoms..

"he sure plays a mean pinball".....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 03:01 PM

I'm sure Dave and Tony practice safe sex, timely reminder though, see as it's World Aids Day.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 03:14 PM

John I think you should join us over at the "trolls club".

Just tell Martin Ake sent you....

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 03:16 PM

i agree.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 03:24 PM

By the way John, i was reading today about the old bird they dug up.

She was an ex member of the family whos firm supplies hamsters to Huntington labs....I thought you were taking the piss...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Ima Gittin'
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 03:32 PM

More lives are saved each day from the ravages of cancer,thanks to those furry creatures. My husband is one such survivor.
As to the cure for the common cold...?
There really is no such thing. It's a misnomer....an oxymoron if you will.
Each time a person picks up a 'cold virus'....it adapts to his/her personal genetic make-up. Then it's passed to another & 'it' changes & mutates yet again....then passed on...etc.the cycle is endless. Therefore no true 'cure' can be found that will adapt to the viruses ever-changing form.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Ima Gittin'
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 03:40 PM

Don't get me wrong, I love critters...but each has a purpose. We eat beef yet in other countries the bovine is sacred.
We have dogs as pets,yet they're prized as food in other countries.
No cuelty is definded as mistreatment.Like veal. There's mistreatment for ya. Kept in a SMALL confined cage from birth.Fed nothing but milk.Not allowed to hardly move, let alone stand. Pumped full of chemicals,then slaughtered at a very young age. All for producing a very soft meat with hardly any muscle mass.
The lab animals are fed & kept very well actually.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Peace
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 03:45 PM

mRNA--that's where a 'cure' may be found for the common cold.

However, I was reading that the Scots on this thread are having difficulties with their language. I wanted to remind you--and I have in on excellent authority--that if you wake a Scot at 3:00 AM, he or she will talk exactly like a Canadian.

God will get me for that, I'm sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 03:46 PM

Blah blah blah, effing blah!

I guy can't get any shuteye around here at all with all this noise. I'm outta here. Maybe I'll head to last year's Mudcat Christmas Pub thread. It's pretty quiet there.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 03:50 PM

ake-I was not taking the piss, the "old bird they dug up", was the grandmother of somebody that supplies [i think] heating oil to the guiena pig farm, that supplies huntindon life sciences.
The police have now arrested somebody with unlawfully removing a body from a human grave.

No matter how strongly I disagreed with a business practice, there is no way I would dig up the recently buried body of their grandmother and dump it somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 03:57 PM

I've been told i sound Canadian when i sing...does that count?

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 04:01 PM

Seems a bit over the top

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 04:03 PM

Sorry that was meant for John....But it could apply to either...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 04:55 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: GUEST,smiler
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 03:54 AM

There is no evidence at all that the grave was dug up by animal rights protesters.

The first rule of propaganda is to demonise the enemy. Has no-one heard of dirty tricks to achieve this?

It is surprising the vested interests involved in the drugs industry hadn't thought of this one earlier, to drive public support away from protesters.

It won't work, as what companies like HLS, and Darley Oaks Farm get up to is loathsome to all decent people.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: GUEST,miller
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 09:21 PM

The protesters are dangerous thugs.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Kaleea
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 02:36 AM

Shades of George Carlin:
Sometimes I wonder why protest groups are named as they are-- grammatically speaking--like "antiabortionprotesters." It really infers that they are protesting against those who are against abortion. Are the animal rights protesters protesting against the rights of animals? Which exact rights are they protesting against? The right to bear arms (in their paws) against the dogcatchers?
   I've seen animal rights protesters who wear leather. Leather earthshoes. Take leather suede "Hushpuppies" shoes. They named them after puppies cause puppies are so cute, right? So how many critters (were they puppies?) did they kill so that the animal rights protesters could wear their comfortable Hushpuppies on the march? Leather belts. Leather purses. Where do they think the leather comes from, a leather tree? And why do they get into such a lather over fur? Isn't leather the part just underneath the fur--the part that the fur used to be attached to?
   Sounds like we have some antiprotester protesters here in the 'Cat. Are any of you antiMudCat protesters? Or possibly antiMudcat Mudcat protesters? Doth youse protesters protesteth too mucheth?
   Oh yeah, and is the "old bird" they dug up related to Big Bird? (see not exactly coresponding thread re: Big Bird.)
    Cluin, did you ever get your beauty sleep?

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 11:08 AM

They deserve to be taken seriously. Taken seriously, and placed in an isolated area (here in the UK, I suggest a Scottish island) without any animal derived products, medical tratements tested on animals, etc. The 3% of them who suvive a year might see sense then.

Bunnahanahain.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 12:50 PM

No! There's enough of them on Scottish islands, it's a full scale invasion.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 01:34 PM

Without trying to be devisive, Im very surprised at the number of people here who are against "animal rights" ( I always thought that was a stupid title )
I thought as this is a folk music site the members might have a more caring attitude towards the natural world.
Although the behaviour of some activists could seem bizarre, surely the principle cant be denied.
Apparently most Mudcatters give it no thought at all..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Crystal
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 02:11 PM

I will not suport people who will not practice what they preach. Also as a scientist I realise thet animal testing is, unfortunatly, still required to verify the safty of drugs coming on to the market.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 02:20 PM

Animal testing for drugs (human life enhancing/saving ones ) may be valid, but the conditions the animals are kept in has often proved to be the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 02:25 PM

As one of the posters above might say: blar, blar, blar.

There is no hypocrisy involved, imo. There is a LARGE difference between using animal products that are made into clothing and shoes and glues and what all after the animal is dead - everything dies eventually and the utilization of any or all of our parts will not harm us -and using that same animal before its death in a painful, uncaring, useless fashion that is brutalizing to it and to its practitioners alike.

Science on occasion will have to cause pain to some beings in order to prevent pain for some other beings. I understand that. But the "scientists" on this thread would be the first to concede that that there are experiments going on right now that are just plain silly with no reasonable end in view.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 02:33 PM

Very good Ebbie, I agree with what you say.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Crystal
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 02:51 PM

Actually most animals are killed especially for these products, that they are not is a comfortable delusion which allows the protesters to live with their hypocrisy.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 02:53 PM

"a more caring attitude towards the natural world"

F@ck the natural world... it started the "Fight For Survial" and how it's whining and crying becasue it's loosing...

tough

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 02:58 PM

"Actually most animals are killed especially for these products, that they are not is a comfortable delusion which allows the protesters to live with their hypocrisy."


What, didn't you know the people who make shoes just wait around for the moo-cows to pass away peacefully in their sleep? Hehehe..heheh..he..

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 03:07 PM

Lets just start on about the Effing mink again!!

Didn't understand your point BI ??

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 03:23 PM

"using animal products that are made into clothing and shoes and glues and what all after the animal is dead - everything dies eventually "

Like Crystal said, the moo-cows are killed specifically to make shoes and burgers... that's not dying eventually, that's being slaughtered. It's not like, as i said in a moment of misguided sarcasm, McDonalds and Hush Puppies wait around waiting for the beasts to drop dead from old age...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 03:32 PM

Akenaton was a fool to build his capitol city in the middle of a stinking desert far away from a river.
......................................

Its the save the mosquito people I can't fathom.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 03:54 PM

What I cant fathom,is the deep wisdom which Im sure is contained in Donuels' message.

I'm getting more and more dim.

I'm sure I'll end up like Clinton

BI I think Ebbie meant after the moos' hade been slaughtered for food (which is another argument),the use of their skins would be permissable.
Like when a human dies it is permissable to use their organs, but not to kill them for their organs

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 04:02 PM

BI, your repeated references to 'hush puppies' borders on the weird. 1) the brand of shoe known as Hush Puppy is not made from dogs and 2) the southern finger food known as 'hush puppies' is not made of meat. (It isn't made of 'fingers' either.)

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 04:06 PM

*Sigh* I know the shoes aren't made from dogs. They're made from leather...ie cow skin. Which was what i was talking about.

The finger food sounds interesting...

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 05:29 PM

Hush puppies, in the American south, are an integral part of a meal, especially in a restaurant. They are frequently put on the table upon arrival as an appetizer, much as nachos and salsa are in a Mexican restaurant.

HUSH PUPPIES

These delectable little balls of fried seasoned cornbread are incredibly addictive. Be careful; it's easy to fill up on these!

2 cups yellow corn meal
2 tablespoons flour
2 teaspoons baking powder
1 tablespoon sugar
2 teaspoons salt
1/4 cup finely chopped onions
Freshly ground black pepper to taste
Boiling water
1 egg, beaten
1/4 cup milk
Oil for frying
Heat oil in deep skillet or fryer to 375°F.

Mix all dry ingredients except the baking powder. Pour in enough hot water to make a thick mush, making sure all ingredients are moistened. Add milk, egg and baking powder and mix thoroughly.

Drop by spoonfuls (or use a small ice cream scoop) into oil, and fry until golden brown.

Marvelous with fish or shellfish. Fried catfish and hush puppies are a particularly classic combination.

Source

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 11:40 AM

THanks, i'll have to try that :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Bert
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 12:16 PM

You forgot the beer in that recipe Ebbie.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 01:21 PM

The beer goes on the outside, Bert. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: Tam the man
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 02:45 PM

These loonies are just terrorists, I mean I protest against certain things however I don't go out and cause harm to any other human beings, I'm not a great animal lover but if I was an animal lover, then I would protest peacefully instead of terroristing people who themselves are classed as animals.

So in affect they should love humans as well.

So they're hypocrites, because they love animals when you terrorisis Humans, who are only doing that to save Animal right protesters lives, What I don't like is when they use animals for people's vanity, that's not right, however if to try and find cures until we find some alternitve then animals it will have to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 02:13 AM

Tam

Well said.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 02:43 AM

i'm all for animal rights and stuff, but some people take it way too far.

Subject: RE: BS: Animal Rights Protesters
From: GUEST,Reggie Miles
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 03:39 AM

Hmmm, speaking of the A.L.F...

For the last fifteen years I been comforted by the fact that I've lived in a town known for nothing. Yep, I was even contemplating getting tee shirts and bumper stickers made that would read, "Welcome to Sultan, the town known for nothing." I suppose it was inevitable that our lucky streak wouldn't last forever.

Many had high hopes when the hundred-year flood hit a few years back, and water began rushing over Highway 2 toward Main Street. Unfortunately, the flood over the roadway was less than an inch deep and only about a foot wide. Nevertheless, the city fathers handled the emergency with all the fervor they could muster. There were barricades, and flashing lights, and police directing traffic through the torrent. The police intervention actually created more of a traffic headache than the water ever did. News crews, with truck mounted satellite dishes, were dispatched to take pictures and report on the latest breaking flood levels to cripple the city. We even made the local evening news. Excited, after catching the news clip, we walked down to Main Street to see what all of the hubbub was about. But in reality it wasn't anything more than just an oversized trickle. There were no sinkholes or mudslides. There wasn't any loss of life, and no significant property damage to the town. There was, however, this one rumor circulating at the time, about a woman who went to use the toilet and found a rat inside. They said it had crawled up there because the sewer lines were flooded, but there was no way of confirming that.

I had a friend who always joked that he lived in a sleepy little town in Illinois known for nothing. Then, about the time he was getting ready to print up a batch of tee shirts and bumper stickers that read, "Welcome to Quincy, the town known for nothing." the Mississippi River flooded its banks, destroying hundreds of thousands of acres of farmland and wiping out entire communities. Quincy, as it turned out, became nationally known as having the only surviving passable bridge across the flood-swollen Mississippi, and to top it off their local sports team won the state championship. The town celebrated the victory with a parade of about three cars that honked their horns wildly down Main Street.

Sultan's brush with fame wasn't nearly as awe inspiring or glorious. It wasn't a retrospective about the one rock and roll festival to start the whole rock fest movement rolling, that happened right there in Sultan, The Sky River Rock Fest. It wasn't news confirming the much rumored existence of a nudist colony located somewhere on the outskirts of town. No, Sultan's recent moment of glory was having the Animal Liberation Front claim responsibility for the release of about ten thousand mink from a local farm.

Owed To The A.L.F. (Reggie Miles 2005)

Have you heard about the latest stink?
The liberation of ten thousand mink

Oh what a glorious sight to see
As thousands of minks were all set free

What relief they must have felt
To not to have to shed their pelt

And oh what minky jubilation
To finally get their overdue mink vacation

Set loose to roam the countryside
Some tried to hitch a ride and died

And others suffered from dehydration
Which resulted in their expiration

Many were recaptured they say
To spend their lives in the usual way

Destined to fill the furrier's need
To give their lives for furry greed

Caged until their time was done
Then murdered every single one

In this day and age we should reform
We don't need to kill animals to keep warm

Poly fill can do the trick I think
So murder polyesters and save the mink

Save the mink, save the mink
Murder polyesters and save the mink
Poly fill can do the trick I think
So murder polyesters and save the mink

And what will the Animal Liberation Front do?
When the last mink is spared by me and you?

Will their needless vandalism cease or pause?
Or will they take up the freedom for polyester cause?

Tearing open coats to liberate the poly fill
You know what I think? You bet they will!

And finally when every last polyester thread
Is freed from sleeping bag, pillow and bed

And we all lay shivering through the long cold night
Without rest, to the ALF's delight
Then, will we at last arise to fight?

With bags under our eyes from lack of sleep
Will we allow this domestic terrorism to continue?
Or just resume counting sheep?

Baa, one, baa, two, baa, three, baa, four

Save the mink, save the mink
Let's all murder polyesters and save the mink
Save the mink, save the mink
We should murder polyesters but save the mink