BS: North vs. South- Korea, that is.

Subject: BS: North vs. South- Korea, that is.
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 11:03 PM

Parlous Times

Today, nothwithstanding the intensive talks over the last couple of days, South Korea says it is going ahead with its plan to run live ammunition drills in waters that are close to the area that is claimed by both North and South.

North Korea says the outcome will be "catastrophic" if South persists.

They say that this is the most alarming development since 1953 when the truce was signed.

Anybody got an ideas on this?

Subject: RE: BS: North vs. South- Korea, that is.
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 12:37 AM

North Korea rattles sabers A LOT. They want world attention like a baby wants candy.

Subject: RE: BS: North vs. South- Korea, that is.
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 12:44 AM

No worries, it'll all blow over. The world isn't actually scheduled to end until 21 Dec 2012...

Subject: RE: BS: North vs. South- Korea, that is.
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 01:07 AM

They are both sufferin' from a massive case of Igotabiggerdickthanyoudo-itis. That sorta thing usually ends up not so well.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: North vs. South- Korea, that is.
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 01:08 AM

Just because the boy cries Wolf, Wolf!, Rap, it doesn't follow that there never will be a wolf.

I'm not too worried about the world ending, 'erbert. but I do think it fairly likely that there will be an exchange of fire between the two- and at that point it will/would take real diplomacy between Russia/China and the West.

And who can know whether one of these times North Korea does not releasel a 'small' nuclear bomb?

Who would have guessed that the assassination of the Archduke would start World War I?

Subject: RE: BS: North vs. South- Korea, that is.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 01:25 AM

I've had exactly that same thought (as expressed in your last sentence above) passing through my mind, Ebbie. Local trigger points can unexpectedly morph into enormous conflicts when larger states get pulled in....and they very likely would if the 2 Koreas got into another real shooting war with one another.

Subject: RE: BS: North vs. South- Korea, that is.
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 11:30 AM

Today the North is saying it's "not worth reacting", according to the NY Times.

Recent photographs in North Korea, from 5 photographers at Life magazine. I found the last photographer's notes most interesting. What would/will happen if/when the regime is overthrown? To paraphrase, for a people who know nothing other than that, with such a dark fantasy image of the outside world, it would be as traumatic as awaking from a 50-year coma, and probably more scary because you might not believe that the hospital staff wished you well.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: North vs. South- Korea, that is.
From: kendall
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 12:41 PM

I think we will find that China had words with Kim and he didn't get to use his. However, he has seen the light and backed off.

"And enterprises of great pith and moment become sicklied over with the pale cast of thought, and lose the name of action." (Shakespeare)

Subject: RE: BS: North vs. South- Korea, that is.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 12:52 PM

It's definitely not worth reacting. Most wars could be avoided if people would just get that one simple idea through their heads.

As for the photos.... Good heavens! They have 2 arms, 2 legs, 2 eyes and one head each....just like us! And roads! And clothing! Who'd-a thunk it?   ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: North vs. South- Korea, that is.
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 01:10 PM

2 arms, 2 legs, 2 eyes and one head each... and a government with total information control that promulgates images like this one.

Undoubtedly individuals live happily in that bell jar, but a price is paid...

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: North vs. South- Korea, that is.
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 01:22 PM

...the same could be said for us (not my first comment, but the second), but ours is not a bell jar (except for those who live in one of their own making).

It's contemplating the culture clash and the prospect (however distant) of change and what it would mean for that society that intrigues me. If I'm not mistaken, the Soviet Union, being so much larger, had much less complete control over information and goods. The black market in information and goods had a big hand in their regime/economic change, and the change has been extremely messy there. How much messier (a polite word) will it be in N. Korea?

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: North vs. South- Korea, that is.
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 03:38 PM

I should think that conditions in North Korea if reunification were to occur would be much easier than the transition from communism to a free market economy was in the Soviet Union.

The Koreas were arbitrarially separated a scant 65 years ago, in the memory of living people. I have no doubt but that both countries have relatives on each side.

I AM glad that China seems to have bandaided the current situation.

Subject: RE: BS: North vs. South- Korea, that is.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 05:30 PM

The ease of such a transition would depend on how and under what conditions it occurred.

The same could be said of a transition in North America to a society that provided...

- totally free health care
- totally free secondary education
- a well-paying job and a good place to live for every adult citizen and family
- an end to corporate lobbying in the halls of government
- a banking system that was honest and responsible
- a taxation system that was reasonable and fair
- an end to poverty
- an end to racial prejudice and gender inequalities
- an end to rampantly excessive consumerism, and its replacement with a far more equitable, healthy, sane, and responsible way of life...

and so on...

Now, just so you don't misunderstand me entirely, I am NOT listing all those things above so as to imply that that is what life in North Korea is like! No, indeed. I am not comparing their society to ours in any way.

What I am saying is simply this: that there are a number of notable problem areas in most societies. Some are worse than others. But for any society to face a transition to a very different and far wiser social and political system than what they have at present is difficult. It can be very difficult. How difficult it is depends on how it occurs. It might occur through war, massive financial disturbances, violent revolution, non-violent revolution, massive political change, a huge natural catastrope that sweeps away the old order...or a series of gradual political and social changes.

The last of those would obviously be the least traumatic way of making such a change. I would think that most Koreans...if their governments stopped pressuring them and propagandizing them...would like to reunite their ancient nation into one country again. What stands in the way of them doing so is powerful East-West military alliances, established political forces, powerful vested interests that have no incentive or desire to facilitate such a change. And that's what opposes real social progress everywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: North vs. South- Korea, that is.
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 05:47 AM

China is in a good position at the moment and the last thing they need right now is for N Korea to start throwing it's rattle out of the pram. Perhaps China could have a word with S Korea advising them not to provoke a reaction also.

Subject: RE: BS: North vs. South- Korea, that is.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 06:13 AM

Yes, that would probably be beneficial.

Subject: RE: BS: North vs. South- Korea, that is.
From: kendall
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 06:19 AM

That island is well above the 38th parallel.Maybe thats why the North is so irritated.

Subject: RE: BS: North vs. South- Korea, that is.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 06:21 AM

Could be. Wars are always being fought over stuff like that. NATO had total naval supremacy at the time that the 38th parallel line was drawn, so I doubt the North had any way of enforcing a claim on that island then. They probably feel it's been stolen from them, and it may indeed have been.

Subject: RE: BS: North vs. South- Korea, that is.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 06:23 AM

Rather than "NATO", I probably should have said "the U.N. forces".