Lyr ADD: Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia

Subject: Lyr Req: Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia
From: GUEST,Jean-Paul
Date: 12 May 04 - 08:43 AM

Hi,
   I'm a french guy, fond of irish music.
   I've heard a carol song : Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia ( Mary bore a son to God)on a Horslips's album called "Drive the cold winter away".
   I am wondering if anyone might have the Irish-Language version of this and the english one.
   I know this song is mentionned on Mudcat by Philippa,on the thread "Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol".
Thanks

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 12 May 04 - 01:46 PM

You could try emailing Horslips from their website: http://www.horslipsrecords.com/ - they're nice guys and would probably give you the lyrics no bother. Sorry I can't be more help; not much good on hymns, and a quick look at Ceolta Gael, both books, and Cas Amhrain and Croch Suas E, my usual sources, came up empty.

The other thing you might try is joining the Gaeilge-B maillist (google it) and asking there.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia
From: GUEST,Jean-Paul
Date: 13 May 04 - 08:30 AM

Thanks, I've already tried emailing Horslips and have got a nice reply ("I dare say not"); I've to try the other solution.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 13 May 04 - 08:57 AM

The other thing you might try is the Faith of Our Fathers CD - I have a vague feeling that the inlay on that has the words of the various hymns on it. Nice CD, too.

Subject: Lyr Add: RUG MUIRE MAC DO DHIA
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 14 May 04 - 06:39 AM

RUG MUIRE MAC DO DHIA

Rug Muire mac do Dhia,
íosa Chriost, triath na reann,
Maireann dá éis ina hógh,
An bhean is dóigh do gach dall.

Buime a's máthair Mhic Dé Bhuí,
Bean mar í ní fhaca súil,
Bean ler osclaíodh Flaitheas Dé,
Do mholfas mé os gach dúil.

Ní cosúil í le mná,
Muire Mjhór an bláth nach críon,
Ní cosúil balsam le moirt,
Le lionn goirt ní cosúil fion.


Source: "Fáilte Roimh Íosagán" , cassette tape and booklet produced by "Cór an Ghrianáin", the choir that sings at a long-established weekly Irish-language mass in Derry City. "Fáilte Roimh Íosagán" is dedicated to the memory of one of the founding members of the choir, Prionsias Ó Ceallaigh.

"Rug Muire mac do Dhia" means "(Holy)Mary bore a son to God"

I don't know if there is any difference between these words and the words sung by Horslips. I do remember the seasonal "Drive the Cold Winter Away" album, which had traditional song and was one of the rock group's more 'folksy' productions. There were two other Gaelic songs on the album that I recall and both are already posted at Mudcat, "Don Oíche Úd i mBeithil" (Irish) and "Ny Kirree fo Niaghtey" (Manx).

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia
From: Fear Faire
Date: 14 May 04 - 11:05 AM

Wonder what the origin of this is. It is noteworthy that all words at the end of lines are monosyllabic; there is end-rhyme between lines b and d; and, there is internal rhyme in lines b and d with the finals of lines a and c respectively. LInes of seven syllables abound but there are a few of only six. Those lines might repay further scrutiny as to possible corruption although the metre may have always been of this form. Definitely not a folk composition - this poet knew the game.

Subject: RE: Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 15 May 04 - 07:36 AM

corrections:
íosa should be Íosa (anywhere,not just at the beginning of a line) and Mjhór should read Mhór

One way to find Gaeilge-B, recommended by JTT, is via http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia
From: GUEST,Jean-Paul
Date: 17 May 04 - 03:50 AM

Thanks to all of you.

I've already bought the CD "Faith or our Fathers" on an american site called "Valley-entertainment"; is there any site specialised in irish music where you can buy without difficulty any sort of music media (CD, tapes,...) ?

Philippa mentionned on "Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol " the CD "Ceol na Nollag" (Christmas music) issued in Dublin by Cló Chaisil in cooperation with Foras na Gaeilge; I've googled it without result, is the only way to get it, to send a letter ?

I finish with this question : is there a site where you can find the lyrics of irish traditionnal songs like "Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia" ?

Subject: RE: Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 17 May 04 - 05:08 AM

http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/ should read http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/

There are a number of sites with songs in Irish, but I don't know that any is really comprehensive.

You can find some info on dealers of Irish-language publications via http://www.acmhainn.ie

Cló Iar-Chonachta is a good source of Irish language recordings and song books and they do mail order, but the catalogue is mostly of their own productions, not those issued by other companies.

Are you in France at present?

You may well have to use snail mail to order Ceol na Nollag. As you would if you want the Fáilte Roimh Íosagáin tape (I don't know if it's still available but I know members of the choir)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia
From: GUEST
Date: 17 May 04 - 06:07 AM

Thanks Philippa.

Yes, I'm in France at the present time that's what I'd prefer mail orders but if I had to scrive...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia
From: GUEST,Matt
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 09:12 AM

I realise this thread is more than five years old, but I'm quite interested in the origin of this song. I know it was in Seán Óg Ó Tuama's collection, but he didn't write it (apparently). Philippa, you say you know members of Cór an Ghrianáin: can you put me in touch with them? Or with "Fear Faire"? He only seems to have posted to Mudcat in '04, but he seemed intrigued by the bardic quality of this poem, and he might have learned more about it since. I don't know how to get in touch directly with you, but I'd prefer not to post my email address. Go raibh maith agat.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia
From: Gordon Jackson
Date: 06 Jan 24 - 05:50 AM

Like Matt back in 2009 I am very keen to learn about the origins of Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia.

Also, any authentic performance tips? I play this on mandolin and, better, on octave mandola. I play it, with great difficulty, holding an A5 chord throughout. I could make life easier by retuning but I condiser that cheating! For fun I also play it in parallel fifths, which simply means barring across two courses.

Subject: RE: Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia
From: Felipa
Date: 06 Jan 24 - 05:38 PM

I just listened on youtube to Cara Dillon singing Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia (also available on Bandcamp). She has the same lyrics posted at the beginning of this thread and sings to the tune I'm familiar with. I've seen Seán Óg Ó Tuama credited with the tune, words traditional. But I just found an essay which says the sixteen century poet who wrote the words was a Franciscan named Eoghan Ó Dubhthaigh. The essay in https://gaeilge.org.au/caipeisi/nuachtlitir/anl239.pdf says that we don't know who composed the tune, but also says that it was originally a poem, with music added later.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Jan 24 - 12:04 PM

Here's a slightly iffy translation that someone else can better

Rug Muire mac do Dhia,
Íosa Chriost, triath na reann,
Maireann dá éis ina hógh,
An bhean is dóigh do gach dall.

Mary bore a son to God,
Jesus Christ, lord of the heavens
Two lives lived in her youth (?)
The woman most hoped-for by every sinner. (?)

Buime a's máthair Mhic Dé Bhuí,
Bean mar í ní fhaca súil,
Bean ler osclaíodh Flaitheas Dé,
Do mholfas mé os gach dúil.

Foster-mother and mother of the Yellow Son of God
Eyes never saw a woman like her
The woman who would open God's Heaven
I praise her from every duty.

Ní cosúil í le mná,
Muire Mhór an bláth nach críon,
Ní cosúil balsam le moirt,
Le lionn goirt ní cosúil fion.

Women are not like her,
Great Mary, the flower who does not wither,
Balsam is not like clay
As beer is not like wine.

Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia
From: Felipa
Date: 09 Jan 24 - 09:15 AM

forget about the "yellow"; "Buí" is a misprint for "bhí" - which a footnote to the article in the An Luibín newsletter I cited in my message of 6 Jan. explains in this case means "bheo" (alive - so I suppose "the living son of god".

"Dúil" usually means desire, fondness or expectation, but this word also gets a footnote in An Luibín as meaning "neach beo", a living being. So I would translate the line "Do mholfas mé os gach dúil" as "I would praise her above all others." I see that the Ó Domhnaill dictionary does also give that meaning for "dúil": a creation, an element; with examples such as Rí na ndúl, the King of the elements, the Lord of creation; na ceithre duile, the four elements, Gach dúil bheo, every living thing.

"Muire Mhór" as given by Thompson is correct; the 2004 transcription on this thread has a typo: "Muire Mjhór"

Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Dec 24 - 05:39 PM

Bonjour Jean-Paul et merci pour ton interêt dans nos vieilles chansons irlandaises.

Voici une tentative de traduction, a partir de mes maigres connaissances du français, acquises lors d'un long séjour au Canada:

Rug Muire mac do Dhia,
Íosa Chriost, triath na reann,
Maireann dá éis ina hógh,
An bhean is dóigh do gach dall.

Marie a mis au monde le fils de Dieu,
Jesus Christ, seigneur des cieux,
Elle en est restée toujours vierge,
La femme de confiance pour chaque aveugle.

Buime a's máthair Mhic Dé Bhi,
Bean mar í ní fhaca súil,
Bean ler osclaíodh Flaitheas Dé,
Do mholfas mé os gach dúil.

Femme d'accueil et mère du Fils de Dieu,
On n'a jamais vu une femme pareil,
Femme ouvrant les cieux de Dieu,
Je la loue au-dessus de tout.

Ní cosúil í le mná,
Muire Mhór an bláth nach críon,
Ní cosúil balsam le moirt,
Le lionn goirt ní cosúil fion.

She is not as other women,
Great Mary, the flower that withers not,
Balsam it is not like dregs
And bitter beer is not like wine.

Bonne lecture!

James

Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Dec 24 - 05:45 PM

Excuse moi, Jean-Paul, j'ai oubliee de traduire de dernier couplet:

Le voici:

Ní cosúil í le mná,
Muire Mhór an bláth nach críon,
Ní cosúil balsam le moirt,
Le lionn goirt ní cosúil fion.

Elle n'est pas comme les femmes,
Grande Marie - la fleur qui ne fane pas;
La balsamine n'est pas comme la lie (ex. du vin),
La bière salée pas comme le vin …

Et je confirme! :-))

Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Dec 24 - 07:28 PM

Rug Muire Dhia mac da,
Whack fol the daddy o...