BS: Breastfeeding In Public

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: GUEST,Kampervan
Date: 24 Mar 14 - 05:52 AM

If any establishment that wanted to discourage breast-feeding in public had to display a notice to that effect in their window, then all reasonable people could simply go elsewhere. Within a few weeks that place would either see the error of their ways or go out of business.
Problem solved.

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Mar 14 - 06:28 AM

Sadly, Kampervan, it is not so. Such an establishment would get the support of the type of Neanderthal that does take offence. It would soon be a beacon for all the right wing idiots who want to take us back to the dark ages. They would, of course, get the clientele they deserve.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 24 Mar 14 - 06:39 AM

Also, as we live in a country where equality has statutory status, such a sign would be illegal.

We used to see similar ones. No blacks, no dogs, no Irish.

Remember?

When you run a business it is for all without prejudice. This is why the Christians who tried refusing a gay couple ended up losing their case and being cautioned for a criminal offence.

Tit bombing a restaurant is far better and gives a far more pertinent message than the judicial route though, all the same.

Oh. Pete the squeezer. What are breasts meant for then? I like playing with them myself, try tuning them into Radio 2 etc. A body is for what an owner wishes it to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: GUEST,Kampervan
Date: 24 Mar 14 - 06:51 AM

You're both right of course, it wasn't really a serious suggestion, just an expression of frustration over the fact that this is still a topic for discussion.

My daughter frequently breast-fed her son in public and had very few problems and I thought that it had just become the norm. Sad that there are still people objecting to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: Noreen
Date: 24 Mar 14 - 09:26 AM

So, Ake, you don't have any evidence.

And anyone who disagrees with your outdated opinion is "silly".

Fine, you're not worth wasting any more intelligent discussion time on.

Bye!

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Mar 14 - 09:45 AM

What did folks think McDonald's Golden Arches symbolized?

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 24 Mar 14 - 10:18 AM

McMammaries

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Mar 14 - 11:04 AM

Sorry Noreen, but Eliza had already posted evidence about the women who organised and participated in the mass feed, as a political protest.

All silly women, or men, are not child abusers.

What about the point raised regarding nappy changing as a political protest.....agree or disagree?

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Mar 14 - 11:44 AM

http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/breastfeeding_rocks.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Mar 14 - 12:18 PM

This really does get better by the minute. Women feeding their children in public to protest about someone trying to prevent them from doing so are child abusers according to ake! I am glad to hear that he thinks that 'All silly women, or men, are not child abusers'. Not sure what it means though as I doubt that any child abusers would be classed as silly. I would call them evil.

I probably would support a mass nappy change as a political protest in the right circumstance. Say to protest at a public site that wilfully will not provide a proper facility for seeing to the mother and child's needs. However, while the two acts are both natural it is blatantly obvious that one is a clean and sanitary operation, causing no distress to anyone, and the other does produce unhygienic by-products that can cause issues. It is not too difficult to see how society draws up it's etiquette. Well, not too difficult for normal people anyway.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: frogprince
Date: 24 Mar 14 - 12:59 PM

But after all, the baby has no control over whether he poops in a public place, whereas an adult woman has control over whether she subjects poor unsuspecting bystanders to the sight of an engorged breast and...omigod...possibly... nipple .

Wouldn't you agree, Akeneton ?

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: Musket
Date: 24 Mar 14 - 01:38 PM

That would be a good night down the dog track. Akenaton in the bar and a gay bloke whips a prosthetic breast out and feeds a baby with it.

I'd not notice it myself you understand. I'd already have left, shuffling my feet on the mat as I exited.

Regarding changing nappies.... Dave is spot on. Society can draw up etiquette without pandering to control freaks or bigots.

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 24 Mar 14 - 03:53 PM

I'm really heartened by most people's viewpoint expressed here. I hate to think of a young mum being upset by unkindness and nastiness. It must be very tiring to cope with a small baby even at home, never mind going out and about, and feeding the little mite isn't much to ask. I'm also pleased that men can distinguish between boobs being a turn on (in the West anyway) and breasts being the natural way to nourish a baby. It's also good because, IMO, breast milk is the best thing, and mums should be encouraged to give their babies the very best start in life.

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: frogprince
Date: 24 Mar 14 - 08:00 PM

I mentioned early in the thread that I had only seen two women breastfeed entirely openly in many years. I misstated myself, as I was just thinking then of typical public settings. I've seen several more at different nudist resorts, where the moms were simply topless.
(In more than one instance, I've concluded that the young mother had a divine right.)

   I'll get me towel...

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 24 Mar 14 - 08:40 PM

Frogprince:   LOLOLOL!
_________________________

"Are customers to be allowed to do exactly as they please regardless of the effect on other paying customers.
What if baby required to be changed and was fretful? Say the mother would not use a private room to change a wet nappie, as some sort of feminist protest. What would your views be on the rights and wrongs of that?"

1. It would never happen, unless the venue refused to provide a room where mum COULD go, and in this case the toilet would be quite appropriate and acceptable for the purpose.

2. After posing this ridiculous scenario, do you STILL have the immortal gall to call women silly?

They couldn't possibly equal your silliness!

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 14 - 10:47 AM

Frogprince said, "(In more than one instance, I've concluded that the young mother had a divine right.)"

Allow me to add that her left wasn't bad, either.

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Mar 14 - 03:24 PM

There is nothing wrong with a woman breast feeding in public.

There is much wrong with a posse of women using their babies to make a political point. That is abusive, has nothing to do with the baby and everything to do with the sillier side of feminist politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: frogprince
Date: 25 Mar 14 - 04:24 PM

"There is much wrong with a posse of women using their babies to make a political point. That is abusive, has nothing to do with the baby and everything to do with the sillier side of feminist politics."

Abusive???? Tell me how or why in heaven or earth that this action would harm the babies or anyone else. Some twit harassed a mother who was trying to feed her child in a manner to which she was entirely legally entitled. She didn't gather other women to march around with pickets signs and try to turn other people away from the business; a group of women got together and, by doing something that wasn't even offensive to any normal person, probably embarrassed the poor widdle jerk just a little in the process of teaching him something. Say for one moment that the group action could be considered "silly": there are a helluva lot worse ways that people could respond to something totally inappropriate than by doing something totally harmless and slightly "silly" to call attention to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: frogprince
Date: 25 Mar 14 - 04:37 PM

And while I'm ticked off enough to keep rolling a bit:

I've heard of several other "breastfeed-in" gatherings. Those gatherings weren't framed as protests at all. They were arranged simply to promote breastfeeding for the well-being of babies !!! Do you consider that abuse of children by silly feminists too ?

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: GUEST,Musket slowly shaking head
Date: 25 Mar 14 - 04:56 PM

Bigotry was never identified by intelligence.

If anybody other than little irrelevant fools harboured pathetic views, we'd all be screwed. However, transparent misogyny can be swept to one side and ignored.

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Mar 14 - 08:07 AM

"I've heard of several other "breastfeed-in" gatherings. Those gatherings weren't framed as protests at all. They were arranged simply to promote breastfeeding for the well-being of babies !!! Do you consider that abuse of children by silly feminists too ?"

Of course not froggie.....get a grip! That is not making a political point. I agree with the promotion of breast feeding.

I do not agree with the "use" of babies to further a political agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: Musket
Date: 26 Mar 14 - 08:17 AM

Speak of the devil....

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: frogprince
Date: 26 Mar 14 - 10:38 AM

So the value of breastfeeding isn't even controversial, but the ability of a mother to do so wherever and whenever her baby is hungry
is a silly feminist political point ?

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Mar 14 - 01:03 PM

Froggie, My family were breast fed, I believe in the promotion of breast feeding, I think it is a wonderful thing for mother and baby.

I cannot be any more positive about breast feeding than that.

The "controversy", as far as I am concerned, regards mothers who wish to make a political point and use baby as a weapon with which to do so.
I am sure the huge majority of breast feeding mums, would prefer to do so in private and in a quiet environment. A room could surely be made available(not a lavatory), which would be more suitable than the hurly burly of a busy restaurant? I could only assume, that any mother who CHOSE the latter option, had set out to take a political stance.....baby could not give a stuff where he is fed, but the experience would surely be more fulfilling for mother and baby in a quiet private place?

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Mar 14 - 01:23 PM

I could only assume, that any mother who CHOSE the latter option, had set out to take a political stance

Another load of tosh from the master. That is the whole point. The choice faced by the mother is feed the child in public or let it go hungry. The number of premises with the type of facilities you mention could be counted on one hand. You seriously expect the owner of the premises to furnish some premium space, that could be making them money, to allow for what is likely to be a very rare occurrence? Feeding a child is not a political stance. It is necessary.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 26 Mar 14 - 01:37 PM

As I've already said, I've sadly never been a mother, but I should imagine a mum would rather stay at the table or the social event and feed her baby there, than be banished out of sight into a side room. And feeding can take quite a long time; while everyone else is chatting and enjoying their meal, the mum is excluded from the group. The mums I saw in Africa had the baby attached to or near the breast almost all the time, they didn't sit quietly in a mother-baby private moment, they went about their business selling/buying in the market, bent double washing clothes in plastic bins on the ground, bashing away with their huge pestles and mortars, and it was fascinating to see the little ones gamely getting their milk as naturally as anything. There didn't seem to be a 'time' for the feeds, they just fed whenever they wanted to. I don't suppose that's possible here, but a middle path could surely be found, if folk would accept it.

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: Musket
Date: 26 Mar 14 - 01:38 PM

Perhaps they could have another room for ugly people, in case their presence offends? How about one for poor people in case their poverty offends you?

If you run out of rooms, you could always have a sign saying breast feeding to the left, poor and ugly to the right, similar to me people straight on ahead. No niggers, no dogs, no Irish, no queers.

Sorted.




I wonder if he thinks a single decent Mudcat person isn't disgusted when trying to read his diatribe?

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Mar 14 - 01:43 PM

Akenaton, sometimes parsing out one's time between eating in that restaurant and then going someplace private to nurse simply isn't an option. Mostly it isn't an option. I patronized restaurants with tables or booths that gave me the freedom to socialize with my husband and or friends and nurse if it was required, a small baby blanket over my shoulder if necessary, but usually just opening a garment intended for nursing out of view under the table's edge. Often you can do it at the same time as some other activity.

Some of us with babies and children about the same age would go certain places to meet. The zoo or the park, for example, where the older children could play and you could sit with the baby and nurse quietly on a bench off to the side of the playground. Or maybe find a corner in the mall courtyard or museum. If someone intentionally intrudes into an area populated with young women with babies, then personal offense that nursing going on is nonsense.

When my children were very small I didn't take them out as often as when they got older. When they were tiny it took them a while to finish so I had a rocker set up with a large tankard of water and a book I was reading. As they grow bigger and stronger and faster at nursing, your schedule can change and if you're out and they're with you, and you know twenty minutes will take care of what they need, why not have a meal and let them nurse at the same time? Just order food that you won't drop on them and can eat with one hand. :)

There was a recent horrible video making the rounds on YouTube/facebook, in which an older man, possibly the grandfather, has a swaddled baby in one arm and a toddler, perhaps three years old, beside him, outside a women's health clinic. He is crouched down where the girl can see her sibling and he is loudly proclaiming to her that each one of these people is going to kill a baby. Overtly suggesting to that young girl that her baby is going to die probably created a terror about people in general for that poor child. That kind of indoctrination and abusing both the baby and the toddler should have landed that old fart in jail, or generated a restraining order to keep him away from all small children. Even the most strident pro-nursing feminists can not be accused of using their babies in any such way. Just like kissing babies at political rallies isn't considered abusive.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: frogprince
Date: 26 Mar 14 - 02:06 PM

"mothers who wish to make a political point and use baby as a weapon with which to do so."

I'm sitting here picturing some woman holding a naked baby while nursing it and pointing it's bare butt at someone with whom she has a political disagreement.

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: Musket
Date: 26 Mar 14 - 03:11 PM

Point my greyhound's arse at people and you really are making a statement. Boy can he fart.....

SRS makes good points, but like all good people dealing with those for whom respectability is a foreign country. I fear she may be ultimately disappointed trying to reason.

Nice try all the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Mar 14 - 04:52 PM

Thank you for your civility SRS...an interesting post and I cant disagree with much of it.

The rest of you have not addressed the fact that the vast majority of mothers would surely prefer to nurse their babies away from the public gaze?

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Mar 14 - 06:41 PM

The rest of you have not addressed the fact that the vast majority of mothers would surely prefer to nurse their babies away from the public gaze?

Typical. Cannot find a sensible argument so attack people instead. Where has anyone suggested otherwise?

Babies need feeding every few hours. As they get older the time between feeds does extend but when very young it can be as often as every 2 hours. Even when it is 4 hours through they will still need 4 or 5 feeds during waking hours every day. How often do you think those feeds will be in public? How many people go and eat out for every meal? Even if they go out every lunch time or every dinner time they will be feeding the baby in private 3 or 4 times as often as in public. If they go out twice a week that becomes a minute fraction of the number of times they feed away from 'the public gaze'.

What you are suggesting is that they should, for the sake of a few idiots who will probably take offence at anything, remove themselves completely from any form of social life. Do you believe that women enjoy being clubbed on the head and dragged back to the cave as well?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 14 - 07:03 PM

The rest of you have not addressed the fact that the vast majority of mothers would surely prefer to nurse their babies away from the public gaze?

So how many of them have you asked, twat?

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: meself
Date: 26 Mar 14 - 08:45 PM

" ... Tess, with a curiously stealthy yet courageous movement, and with a still rising colour, unfastened her frock and began suckling the child.
    "The men who sat nearest considerately turned their faces toward the other end of the field .... "

                                     - Thomas Hardy

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: Musket
Date: 27 Mar 14 - 04:44 AM

Well, that's Dorset for you...

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 14 - 04:40 PM

Thank you, Musket. Best laugh I've had in a month.

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Mar 14 - 04:53 PM

I can't speak for the vast majority, no one can, but as a mom who nursed two, I wasn't about to be isolated from the world for all of the time I spent nursing. It can be done in public places in a discrete way.

I agree, great comeback, Musket!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: JennieG
Date: 27 Mar 14 - 05:18 PM

Last week Himself and I were having our morning coffee in a favourite local café, sitting in one of the two front window tables.......a great spot for people watching, one sees some amazing sights in this town you know......when a small group of young folk passed by, smiling and laughing at each other, and firmly fastened to the breast of one young woman was her (at least I suppose it was her own) baby, suckling away.

Wonder if the kid was enjoying his/her milkshake on the run, or if he/she would would have preferred mum to sit down and shake it up less?

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Mar 14 - 06:25 PM

It can be done in public places in a discrete way.

AMEN! That's it in a nutshell.

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Mar 14 - 06:39 PM

People will still whinge about it no matter how discrete, Greg. There are some who just take offence at anything and enjoy complaining. Sad, but a fact of life.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Mar 14 - 06:59 PM

Actually ['legendary pedant' hat, sorry], a discreet way.

'Discrete' means 'separate', not 'tactful'.

But I wholeheartedly endorse the sentiment...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 14 - 08:37 PM

Fer chrissake, Michael, you just beat me to it. There are none more vacuously pompous than those who select deliberately aggrandising words such as "discreet/discrete" who then choose the wrong one. I complement you on your erudite post. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: meself
Date: 27 Mar 14 - 11:32 PM

"complement" ... indeed ....

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Mar 14 - 02:11 AM

Prefoundly greatful four you're felicitay-shuns!

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Mar 14 - 04:01 AM

I like your style, meself; your quotation was very apt and reflected my views perfectly.

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 28 Mar 14 - 04:06 AM

There's irony for you ....

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Mar 14 - 04:09 AM

Well, you learn something new every day! Maybe it should be discrete and discreet?

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 28 Mar 14 - 05:44 AM

Overheard in Barnsley.

This disc reet ? It's got all o' Kate Rusby' songs on it, tha' knors.

I reckon one of our contributors turned up in drag on BBC Question Time last night. Amazing what you can convince yourself that respectable people think.

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Mar 14 - 11:32 AM

It was supposed to be discreet. The tyranny of spell-check - doesn't get the syntax, just the spelling.

There are none more vacuously pompous than those who select deliberately aggrandising words . . . that would be aggrandizing, Mr. Shaw.

;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Breastfeeding In Public
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Mar 14 - 12:06 PM

Actually, must agree that Steve overstated the matter there. "Discreet" a perfectly normal everyday word, Steve. What supposed to be "aggrandising" about it? What less grandiloquent synonym would you have preferred?

~M~