BS: Voting in Oz

Subject: BS: Voting in Oz
From: artbrooks
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 06:56 PM

Oz Catters, info please:

The US election cycle is finished, and President Obama faces the reality of dealing with 535 Senators and Representatives who have other agendas than his, even if they are from the same party. In 2008, slightly more than 60% of the eligible voters bothered to vote (and this is higher than previous years). Members of Congress are elected by a simple majority of the valid votes cast...so, many of them were actually selected by 30-35% of the citizens they represent.

So to my questions(s). I understand that voting is mandatory in Australia. How does this work in practice? Is there a substantial penalty for not voting? Is it enforced? Do many people still not bother to vote. Most importantly, in your opinion does this requirement result in a significantly better informed electorate which votes on the issues, or do they just pick someone to avoid the penalty?

Subject: RE: BS: Voting in Oz
From: bubblyrat
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 07:30 PM

I have always had a problem with the voting system here in the UK.I mean, if everyone is entitled to a vote, but only ,say,58 % of the electorate bother to turn up to vote on Polling Day, how on earth can the ensuing government possibly be said to have been democratically elected ?? Either EVERYONE has to vote, or they don't, surely ?? Hang non-voters, I say !!

Subject: RE: BS: Voting in Oz
From: Rowan
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 08:25 PM

Foolestroupe and I have posted elsewhere on Mudcat about the intricacies of the Oz system but I can't (at the moment) find the posts, so here is an interim quickie.

In Oz, turning up at the Ballot Booth (or sending in a Postal Ballot) is compulsory. Once in the Booth Electoral officials will check your name against the Electoral Roll, ask whether you have already voted and, if you haven't, issue you with the relevant Ballot Papers (which they initial as they do so) and tick your name on the Roll. You then go to an empty cardboard cubicle and follow the instructions to cast a valid vote. Or not, if you want your vote to be regarded as "Informal" and thus not validly cast nor counted. Either way, you then fold the papers and, separately, place them in the appropriate Ballot Boxes under the eye of an official and leave the booth. If you damage a Ballot Paper you can surrender it to an Official who will destroy it and issue you with a replacement; you are not allowed to remove Ballot Papers from the Booth.

After the election, Electoral Officers will go through the Roll and ensure that all the names have been ticked; these days it's done 'digitally' in the same way that exam papers are marked. This can take a while as any electorate (what US voters call a precinct) can have many Polling Booths and larger centres (eg capital cities) will have desks with copies of all Rolls to cope with Absentee Voters. Any names not ticked at the end of all this will be sent a "Please Explain" and, if you don't send an acceptable response you are liable for a $50 fine.

Depending on how the wider electorate feels about the need for the current election there may be up to 30% of people on the Rolls just not turn up and, among the voters who attend, many votes are cast informally (often categorised as "protest votes"). Informal gossip tells me that only a few people are ever fined or chased.

When I was first in South Carolina it was during Clinton's first Presidential race and many Americans were really enthusiastic about Australia's "compulsory" voting system but there are aspects I suspect US voters might not like. In Oz, there is a govt dept called the Electoral Office and the Commonwealth and State govts are required to maintain equivalence among electorates so that no one in a jurisdiction is more than 10% larger or smaller than the others (in terms of eligible voters) in that jurisdiction. This means that all citizens eligible to vote are required to maintain correct addresses on the respective Electoral Roll. There are some who might regard this as an infringement of their civil liberties.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Voting in Oz
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 09:09 PM

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781453.html
    Turnout of voting-age population (percent)

Year   Voting-age population Voter registration Voter Percentage
2008* 231,229,580                132,618,580*   56.8%
2006   220,600,000                135,889,600    37.1%
2004   221,256,931                174,800,000    55.3
2002   215,473,000                150,990,598    37.0
2000   205,815,000                156,421,311    51.3
1998   200,929,000                141,850,558    36.4
1996   196,511,000                146,211,960    49.1
1994   193,650,000                130,292,822    38.8
1992   189,529,000                133,821,178    55.1
1990   185,812,000                121,105,630    36.5
1988   182,778,000                126,379,628    50.1
1986   178,566,000                118,399,98    36.4
1984   174,466,000                124,150,614    53.1
1982   169,938,000                110,671,225    39.8
1980   164,597,000                113,043,734    52.6
1978   158,373,000                103,291,265    37.2
1976   152,309,190                105,037,986    53.6
1974   146,336,000                  96,199,0201   38.2
1972   140,776,000                  97,328,541    55.2
1970   124,498,000                  82,496,7472   46.6
1968   120,328,186                  81,658,180    60.8
1966   116,132,000                  76,288,2833   48.4
1964   114,090,000                  73,715,818    61.9
1962   112,423,000                  65,393,7514   47.3
1960   109,159,000                  64,833,0965   63.1

Subject: RE: BS: Voting in Oz
From: Rowan
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 09:31 PM

Ebbie, from the regularity of the dates, can I take it these are stats of elections in the US?

I ask because, as in the UK, Oz elections are variable in their spacing, For the Commonwealth govt, an election must be held no later than 3 years after the previous one but the Prime Minister can call one whenever he (they've all been male, so far) can convince the Governor General (also all male until the current one) that a national election is desirable. This is also still the case for most of the State and Territory jurisdictions, although NSW now has fixed 4-year terms with elections held on the last Saturday of March.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Voting in Oz
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 02:05 AM

Rowan, yes, those are US elections. I was having trouble with my computer wanting to crash so I went ahead and 'sent' it- didn't really expect that it would go through. Didn't want to do all that work again. :)

This chart starts with 1960, you'll note, the year that Kennedy was elected, a higher rate of voting than 'normal'.

Inbetween elections - two years later - are not presidential elections and you will notice that they are even more scantily addressed. The stats given here are Federal elections but on local and state levels to have a 20some% of participation is not unknown.

Our record is horrendous, of course. I wonder if one could say that in years when voters are rare are years that the citizens are fairly content? And that the converse is true- when there is controversy - there is heavier participation? That would be the kindest interpretation.

But 60% cannot be considered a decent turnout- and even that percentage is rare.

Take note too that a great many people are not registered to vote. It is an embarrassment.

Subject: RE: BS: Voting in Oz
From: GUEST,Allen in OZ
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 04:12 AM

Compulsory voting does raise questions re civil rights etc ( but so does compulsory tax and driving on the left hand side of the road )

The key element of compulsory voting seems to be that it does give a degree of legitimacy to the elected government of the day ( provided it got a majority of the 2 party preferences )

It works pretty well here in Oz . Incidentally you do not actually have to vote , you only have to turn up a the polling booth and have you name marked off. But that is another issue.

Best wishes

Allen

Subject: RE: BS: Voting in Oz
From: freda underhill
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 04:59 AM

The right to vote, without discrimination, is set out in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (article 25) and the International Covenant on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (article 5(c)).

Australia has signed both of these covenants. Voting is a hard won right. Women in Australia, after decades of struggle, won the right to vote at different times in each state. South Australia granted women the right to vote in 1894; Western Australia followed suit in 1899, and New South Wales in 1902. That same year women Australia-wide were granted suffrage in Commonwealth elections. Strangely, this meant that women in Victoria could legally vote in federal elections, but not state elections.

Indigenous women had to wait until 1962, when the repeal of the 1902 Commonwealth Act gave Aborigines in all states, except Queensland, the right to vote.

Prisoners serving sentences of more than three years are not allowed to vote in Australia and there is debate as to whether this is right, because denying the right to vote does not assist with social reintegration and rehabilitation of prisoners.

Subject: RE: BS: Voting in Oz
From: goatfell
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 05:03 AM

in Australia I found out that the people there don't have any human rights.

Subject: RE: BS: Voting in Oz
From: JennieG
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 06:37 AM

"The" people? to which people are you referring?

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Voting in Oz
From: GUEST,Allen on Oz
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 04:26 PM

Aaaah yes Jennie G...what people indeed?

The American constitution starts off with the words " We the people"

Australia's constitution starts off with " Whereas"

Says it all really

AD

Subject: RE: BS: Voting in Oz
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 11:46 PM

Allen on Oz, are you Allen IN Oz? If not...

Subject: RE: BS: Voting in Oz
From: GUEST,Allen In OZ
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 04:33 PM

Ebbie

Mea culp, mea culpa etc etc

Yes, yes, I am Allen In OZ
I suppose I am speaking ON Oz

AD ( Sydney)

Subject: RE: BS: Voting in Oz
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 06:18 PM

I was in Australia for the 1974 election. It was a bizarre performance. They used preferential voting, and you HAD to express a precise preference for every single candidate or your vote was declared invalid. For the New South Wales Senate, there were 29 candidates chasing 6 seats, if I remember right (including a Nazi candidate given to punching random strangers in the street who everybody called "Skull", and a bunch of obsessed single-issue one-man-and-his-dingo parties). The form looked like an annual results spreadsheet for a large company. It took three weeks to finish the count, mainly because of the state-your-preference-for-everybody checking.

Even that amount of gerrymandering didn't return the government the CIA wanted, so they overthrew it in a coup a year later anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Voting in Oz
From: JennieG
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 07:47 PM

It's OK Ebbie, Allen either in, on or of Oz is a musical mate of mine, he just gets a bit confused sometimes.....lovely bloke though...... *grin*

Several years ago I worked in various council, state and federal elections, I was one of those people who cross off your name and hand you the ballot paper after initialing it. It gives one a completely new view on human stupidity.

Some people chose to make their 'point' (it's their privilege after all, under our democratic system) by writing comments about the candidate on the ballot paper. As long as there was also a valid vote, it could be counted. If the comment was the only thing written then the vote was declared informal. The papers were counted (by the aforementioned workers including me) at the close of the day's polling - it was often a very late night - then sent to the electoral office where they were counted again in case of discrepancies by tired counters (see above). As far as I know the person/s about whom the comments were written never saw those comments, and considering the vitriolic nature of many of them it's probably just as well..

Jack Campin - do you think that Oz has a monopoly on odd one-issue parties? I don't think so!

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Voting in Oz
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 08:42 PM

Edinburgh has had somebody standing for the Scottish Parliament to publicize his Festival Fringe show, so yes of course we have stupid political parties too.

The difference in that Australian election (I don't know if they still do this) was that your vote was disqualified if you didn't express a preference between the Legalize Sodomy With Koalas Coalition and the Pymble Separatist Front.

Subject: RE: BS: Voting in Oz
From: GUEST,John Gray in Oz
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 10:00 PM

As Allen in Oz has pointed out - voting is not compulsory in Australia. Turning up at a polling station and having your name marked off is compulsory. How you mark your ballot card is up to yourself. Some people just write "Get Stuffed" across it. The percentage of this "Donkey Vote" is quite small.
My opinion is that there are more positives than not in compulsory voting attendance.
I cite the example of our waterside worker unions ( longshoremen ) in the late 40's & 50's. The election of union officials was not a compulsory vote. The apathetic unionists didn't even bother to go to meetings. The dedicated communists did. Before they knew it just about all our waterfronts were subject to communist controlled unions. The industrial unrest this caused was most significant.
Now, if compulsory voting attendance wasn't in place, it would be possible for a minority fringe group to end up running the country.

JG/FME

Subject: RE: BS: Voting in Oz
From: Hrothgar
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 03:53 AM

The true "Donkey Vote" occurs when a vote just numbers from 1 all the way down the form. This means that whoever is at the top has a statistically better vote than their actual popularity might deserve.

These days positions on the ballot paper are subject to a random draw of the candidates. Once upon a time, they were in alphabetical order, so there was some pressure on political parties to select Abbott instead of Zelinski.

Subject: RE: BS: Voting in Oz
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 10:09 PM

'The American constitution starts off with the words " We the people"'

    'Australia's constitution starts off with " Whereas"'


             One has to wonder how "the people" got cut out in America!