Background of Brother Ephus

Subject: Background of Brother Ephus
From: Dave Swan
Date: 11 Jun 02 - 01:38 PM

My partners and I are arranging Brother Ephus for performance. We hope the song(particularly the chorus) can be taken at face value as a racoon hunting song. However, it has been suggested (and we can't find a definitive source one way or the other) that the chorus concerns a runaway slave.

"Where you going, Moses?, None of your business, Come here Moses, I ain't a gonna do it" may indicate a call and response between the captor and slave.

Certainly we don't want to sing a song which we don't understand, especially when it concerns something as important as this. At his point we just don't know enough.

I'd be grateful for anyone's input, a reference, or a citation.

Thanks,

Dave

Subject: RE: Background of Brother Ephus
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 11 Jun 02 - 08:08 PM

OK, but if he left "me" barking up the tree, then "I" must be his dog. Ephus, the hunter, took the coon and left the dog (Moses) barking up the empty tree.

Reminds me of a dog I once had who treed a cat ONCE and never again in her life passed that tree without looking for the cat. No, that doesn't mean a darn thing; just rather comical.

The 'preacher don't steal' verse is generic, as I'm sure you know, and wanders from song to song. In less happy times it would have been, 'a n----- won't steal' and in the sixties sometimes became 'a hippie won't steal.'

As to not singing songs not understood, this is a laudable standard, but if it were universally adopted, no one would be able to sing "Horse with No Name." Ever.

What I'm wondring is if you have any clue who the "giver" is??

CC

Subject: RE: Background of Brother Ephus
From: rich-joy
Date: 11 Jun 02 - 08:09 PM

Hedy West (and A.L.Lloyd) on her "Old Times and Hard Times" 1965 Topic album have this to say :

"Probably had its origin in a minstrel show song. Many songs traditional in the South were introduced there by travelling "Entertainments", medicine, magic and minstrel shows, which included musicians and singers in their programmes." "I sing here a part of the version of "Brother Ephus" that I learned from Grandma, who sometimes accompanies her singing with banjo, played in a double-thumbing style."

Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: Background of Brother Ephus
From: Dave Swan
Date: 11 Jun 02 - 08:51 PM

C. Charlie,

Interesting point re: "I" the dog. Also interesting point about Horse with No Name. Perhaps we (my little band of idiots) sing so many John Barleycorns because we can understand them!

We understand the giver , as in "the giver's call on the judgement day" to be the giver of life, in this case God hisself.

Thanks R-J, Minstrel show, huh? That doesn't do anything to make me feel more comfortable, but it gives me another place to look.

Keep the thoughts coming folks.

I appreciate the help.

D

Subject: RE: Background of Brother Ephus
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Jun 02 - 08:58 PM

Suggest you PM Mudcatter Butch. He knows a lot about minstrel show music.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Background of Brother Ephus
From: Dave Swan
Date: 11 Jun 02 - 09:23 PM

Thanks, done.

D

Subject: RE: Background of Brother Ephus
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jun 02 - 09:53 PM

See thread 9197, with which this one ought to be combined: Uncle Ef's

The song ("Brother Ephus" in the DT, cobbled or put-together by Hedy West, is derived from several minstrel and Negro folk songs and spirituals. The first verse has been reported since 1909 (Mississippi), but parts are much older. Newman L. White, 1928, American Negro Folk Songs, p. cites fragments under the title:
BROTHER EBEN'S GOT A COON

Uncle Eph'm got the coon and gone on, gone on, gone on.
Uncle Eph'm got de coon and gone on,
And left me watching up de tree.
White says this verse was used as a refrain after a stanza that had antecedents in several old minstrel books.
This same song was reported by Scarborough, 1925, from Virginia (Brother Ephram).

BROTHER EBEN'S GOT A COON

Brother Eban's got a coon,
And gone on, gone on,
Brother Eban's got a coon,
And gone on, gone on.
Also reported by White, Durham, NC, 1919 from Ms.
White comments that "While hunting coon is almost unknown in the Negro folk songs of today, it was a commonplace in the old minstrel song books of the 1840s and 1850s," p. 223, 1965, reprinted by facsimile from the edition of 1928.
As already pointed out, the verse about stealing watermelon appears commonly:

Some folks say dat er preacher won't steal,
But I caught one in my cornfield.
He had er bushel, his wife had er peck,
De baby had a roastin' ear hung er round his neck.
Reported from Alabama, 1915-1918, "sung by cornfield Negroes." From White, (see above), p. 372.
An older one:
Some folks say dat niggers won't steal,
I kotch one in my cornfield.
I ax him 'bout de corn, he call me a liar,
I up wid a chunk and knock him in de fiar.
White says that the version possibly came from the tidewater region of VA or NC, where "chunk" means to throw. The verse above is from "Negro Singers' Own Book, 1846(?), p. 411, in 'Whar You Cum From', by J. B. Harper, the "Celebrated Delineator of Comic and Aethiopian characters." It is probable that this song is "responsible for many others, including numerous blues, beginning 'What Some Folks Say.'" Quoted from White, p. 270, reference given above.
The last three lines of another:
But I caught three in my cornfield.
I ran dem through a pine thicket,
Stove my head in a yellow jacket nest.

and:
I caught two in my tater fiel',
One had a shovel and the other had a hoe,
If that ain't stealin' I don't know.
(The first from NC, the second from AL).

"Where you goin', Moses," is related to:

Whar you goin', buzzard;
Whar you goin', crow?
Gwine down to de low groun'
To git mah grubbin' hoe.
According to White, this could be a verse from the old Jim Crow song used by Thomas D. Rice in the 1830s (named for an old slave, Jim Crow, met by Rice in Louisiana).
There are a number of verses that the one about the slippers is related to:

What kind of clothes do the angels wear, Ugh! Ugh!
What kind of clothes do the abgels wear, Ugh! Ugh!
Oh, my --- etc., an "upstart crow" from the Negro spiritual,
"What Kind of Shoes Are You Going to Wear," see Negro Spirituals, or the Songs of the Jubilee Singers, No. 47, ed. T. F. Seward, pre-1900.

Similar verses in "Negro Folk Rhymes," Thomas W. Talley, 1991, Univ. Tennessee Press.

Subject: RE: Background of Brother Ephus
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Jun 02 - 10:32 PM

Lyrics really sound like an escaped slave/"nigger" song to me.....but what do I know?

Subject: RE: Background of Brother Ephus
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jun 02 - 10:56 PM

Sorcha, I presume you refer to the first verse. It could be.
Some have insisted that the verse relates to a lynching. The experts, however, relate it to normal hunting for the coon, possum, or whatever. Only a little change in the lyrics (so-called folk process) can completely obscure the original intent. We can never identify the original.
The other problem is that, at this late date, attempting to separate Negro and minstrel songs from each other is impossible. Too much borrowing, back and forth.
The verse about stealing corn (or whatever) has been the subject of jokes (as long as the buckshot doesn't get you) with farmers and humorists world-wide.

Subject: RE: Background of Brother Ephus
From: Dave Swan
Date: 11 Jun 02 - 11:03 PM

Thanks, folks. Please keep the info coming. This begs another question. How do you evaluate a song of this sort when you're unsure of its origins and references? D

Subject: RE: Background of Brother Ephus
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Jun 02 - 11:21 PM

Ask a Black History expert?

~S~

Subject: RE: Background of Brother Ephus
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Jun 02 - 12:05 AM

Does the song have a meaning for you? Or is it just words? The song already has been pulled in a dozen directions and as it stands has no clear meaning. To repeat myself, if you can put the song together, give it meaning and get it across to your audience, the interpretation of some expert doesn't really matter, does it? You have made it your song.

Subject: RE: Background of Brother Ephus
From: GUEST,Chicken Charlie
Date: 12 Jun 02 - 01:49 PM

Tending to agree with Dicho--I don't believe there is ONE RIGHT WAY to do a song; I do mine so they make sense to me. What's eerie in the 'cosmic coincidence' dept. is that right now I'm having this same conversation with a very talented but not too secure painter of my acquaintance. She keeps saying, "I don't know what's mine to express." And I keep saying, "With your talent, express whatever you want." Same dialog seems to be shaping up here, tho' I don't want to seem to belittle the noble motivation to research the material to begin with. Do that, but then just have fun with it.

CC

Subject: RE: Background of Brother Ephus
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Jun 02 - 02:01 PM

Yeah, and read the Minstrel Shows threads and see what kind of mess you may be getting into.... and what kind of opportunity you are sitting on, too.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Background of Brother Ephus
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Jun 02 - 02:07 PM

Research gives you insight, and somewhere in the often pedantic discussions you may find the germ of an idea that will set you on your way. A pile of alternate versions sets you to thinking "That one will put the audience to sleep," or "that one has a good idea in the 2nd verse, but the next one is nonsense," etc. Who knows, you might end up with one of those versions that some people call "definitive."
I am not a musician, but picking over the bones of the past helps the creative process in any field.

Subject: RE: Background of Brother Ephus
From: Dave Swan
Date: 12 Jun 02 - 02:44 PM

It isn't a question for me of there being one right way to do this song. As long as I'm unsure about the references of this song I'll be uncomfortable with singing it, and that will show. I can't arbitrarily give a song meaning if it means something else.

Other's mileage may vary, but I've got to know what I'm talking (singing) about before I can make a decision about whether I want to take the song any farther, and make a decision about performance.

I don't fear doing songs which require a historical perspective, or some audience education. Nor do I fear saying this one's not right for me/this audience/this event. But, for me, I'm not giving the audience its money's worth, nor pleasing myself if, on some level, I'm saying "I'm not really sure what this song is about, but I'm going to sing it anyway."

Thanks to everyone who has rung in here. Your suggestions and points of view have helped in many ways.

D

Subject: RE: Background of Brother Ephus
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 12 Jun 02 - 04:46 PM

So Dave, what did this song say to you, and what emotions did it raise, the first time you heard it, from whatever source? That may give you an idea of how (or if) to approach it.

I've got some songs partly learned, and now stored in my mental sock drawer, that I am still debating about singing out in public.

Subject: RE: Background of Brother Ephus
From: harpgirl
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 09:48 AM

how about this jeepman?

Subject: RE: Background of Brother Ephus
From: Dave Swan
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 09:15 PM

Interesting to see this thread raised again. In the end, we don't do this song. Too many questions were answered with references to escaped slave songs. Enough for us not to do it.

D

Subject: RE: Background of Brother Ephus
From: GUEST,Booklyn Rose
Date: 30 Jun 22 - 05:44 PM

I'm reading "the Beautiful Music All Around Us" by Stephen Wade. He discusses ten field recordings from the Library of Congress collection - discussing the circumstances under which they were recorded (in the 1930's & 1940's) and discussing the singers and the communities from which they came. He writes over and over about the influences of minstrel songs, recorded songs from jukeboxes, and songs from oral tradition, and how they are mixed and reinterpreted by different singers. My guess about Brother Ephus is that there is no one definitive version and no single meaning. I wondered whether it was too religious. I like that it sounds cheerful.