BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles

Subject: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 04:59 AM

'Seth Lakeman's Folk Map of the British Isles' starts tonight on BBC Radio 2 at 9pm.

No doubt there will be the naysayers who moan about leaving x,y, or z out and how they could have done it far better themselves. I thought some may be interested though.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000dz9c

"Seth Lakeman takes us on a whirlwind tour of the folk and traditional music of the British Isles, exploring the distinct sounds of different regions.

In this four part series, English fiddle player Seth Lakeman takes a look at the folk music found in Scotland, England, Wales, and Ireland, talking to some of its greatest proponents and asking what makes each tradition distinct.

In this first episode, Seth heads to Scotland. He hears from fellow fiddle player John McCusker, Gaelic harpist Rachel Newton, accordion player Phil Cunningham, folk singer Karine Polwart, Celtic Connections Festival organizer Donald Shaw, young folk artist Iona Fyfe, and host of the BBC Radio 2 Folk Show Mark Radcliffe. They discuss their favourite Scottish songs and tunes and the elements that comprise Scotland’s sonic identity."

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 05:46 AM

Thanks for that. Apart from the Christmas edition, I've given up my order for Radio Times - so little space is devoted to radio.

We should welcome this, I suppose. Is it intended to be entertainment (Radio 2) or education (Radio 4)? Do the two stations co-ordinate their output?

It's an hour long, so we should get some conversation plus some tunes and songs. Would an hour-long concert be more enjoyable, I wonder.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: GUEST, henryp
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 05:55 AM

And episode two;

In this second episode Seth’s focus is on England. He hears from Yorkshire folk singers Eliza Carthy and Fay Hield, Oxford-based Jackie Oates, self-styled Wessex Boy Frank Turner, Devonian artists Geoff Lakeman and Steve Knightly, Cornish shanty singers Fisherman’s Friends, London folk singers Sam Sweeney and Lisa Knapp, Jethro Tull’s Ian Anderson, The Oysterband’s John Jones, fiddle player Sam Lee, and actor and music fan Martin Freeman. They discuss their favourite English songs and the sounds that give English music its identity.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 06:03 AM

Yep, gimme a concert. I won't be tuning in.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: GUEST, henryp
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 06:06 AM

And episode three;

In this third episode Seth focuses on Wales, the land of song. He hears from Welsh harpist Catrin Finch, singer-songwriter Martyn Joseph, folk singer Gwilym Bowen Rhys, Iolo Whelan of Pendevig, fiddle player Oliver Wilson Dickson, singer Gwyneth Glyn, and five-piece band Calan. They discuss Welsh music and the elements that make up its sonic identity.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 10:15 AM

Don't like the 'whirlwind tour' approach.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 10:53 AM

I agree.. them thoughtless irresponsible younger folkies whirlwinding about all over the place
on their speeding mobility scooters...

What we want is an almost stand-still snails pace hobbling about on a zimmer frame folk tour...

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 11:49 AM

pfr, to do justice to the title ,this is more a case of thoughtless radio producers, here is an opportunity to produce an indepth programme, which it probably will not be, but even a flawed programme must be better than none at all

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 12:15 PM

well I have set the recorder, because I am a participator and tonight is Stroud Ceilidhs and subsequent Saturdays will be French/Irish Set/Cajun/you get the idea.. I will be enjoying it whatever. Mind you, it is background music to my happytapping, archiving Ghost Signs, or Milestones/Finger Posts/Boundary Stones, or tending my event listing site.

If it is half as good as his playing, then it will be well worth the listen IMNSHO.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 01:40 PM

Dick - yeah, agreed on all your points...

When the beeb suffers fully under this tory govt.
we'll be lucky to get 10 second soundbytes...

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 02:19 PM

Mark Radcliffe....why ?
Or can we guess which production company is behind it?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 02:29 PM

Oh fuck off, John MacKenzie.

Is there any love or positivity in your mean spirited comment?

See the original post in this thread.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 05:30 PM

Well, the hour passed quite quickly. Some history, some established performers and some new ones. Some interesting items, some of no interest at all.

Next stop - England. I'm happy to tune in again.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 05:36 PM

I've just started listening. Very early in the programme he refers to "one of my favourite ever Scottish folk acts". "Folk acts"? Are they not just a group of musicians? Or are they actors?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 05:57 PM

You are talking Lakepersons of Crapstone-in-Yelverton here...

Last time I saw those lads was in a street session in Wadebridge in 1993. They were still little nippers at the time. Met Geoff in our folk club at about the same time when Jinx's Stack were performing (worry not, Graham, I've lost the bodhran since then...) He had his concertina with him but I don't remember him playing.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 08:20 PM

"Oh fuck off, John MacKenzie.

Is there any love or positivity in your mean spirited comment?

See the original post in this thread."

Right. Let me just say this. Any arsehole can come here and make an anonymous post of this ilk. Yes, I get the argument that occasional leading lights, who don't necessarily want to commit themselves, can come here and contribute. But how often does that actually happen, and would they REALLY not bother posting if they had to do the honourable thing and sign in? I have my doubts.

We don't know who the bastard was who posted this. We get excommunicated people posting above the line in exactly the same mean-spirited and provocative style they employed as members. Akenaton shall remain nameless, for example. So why don't we change things for the better? Make everyone register and sign in. They can use their stupid sobriquets for all I care, but the very minimum should be that the moderators know exactly who they are and what their real names and emails are. Make that the minimum requirement of membership. You might lose a very few occasional big stars, but you'll lose a damn sight more confounded morons of the kind that posted the thing I quoted. Not my gig, of course.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 07:42 AM

Thanks Steve. I purposely refrained from responding to that abusive post. I was not knocking the programme, I was asking what I consider a valid question, what has Mark Radcliffe got to do with Scottish folk music? That was all. I did go on to suggest that it might be connected to the production company, and that was all.
As far as the anonymity of the poster goes, moderators can see IP addresses, and will know who posted it. It is also their decision to let abusive posts remain, a decision I disagree with, as I think all abusive posts made anonymously, and maybe even known poster's contributions too, at times,should be deleted.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 08:07 AM

I don't think they can pin down anonymous guests, John. I've had this debate with the mods a number of times. For some crazy reason they seem to prefer the laissez-faire, wild west approach.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 08:26 AM

Yes, and that last sentence, is why my brief career as a mod was cut short, at the insistence of one who shall remain nameless.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 08:35 AM

I never saw you as one who ran with the fox but hunted with the hound, John! ;-)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 09:16 AM

Seth's series is of little interest to me with no live music.

Anyway, BBC Radio Scotland put on live music from Celtic Connections - 2 hours last Wednesday on Travelling Folk, and 2 hours yesterday on Take the Floor. There is another 3 hours this evening from Scottish Young Trad award final and who knows what I've missed!!!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: GUEST,RA
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 10:51 AM

Surprised that nobody yet has mentioned the use of the problematic term 'British Isles', which is sure to irk many in the Republic of Ireland and elsewhere...

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 12:05 PM

The producer is Tom Pooley for TBI Media.

A whirlwind tour of the folk and traditional music of the British Isles.

"the use of the problematic term 'British Isles', which is sure to irk many in the Republic of Ireland and elsewhere..."

If the term irks anybody, it is likely to be someone from the Isle of Man. We shall see.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: GUEST,HIlo
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 12:59 PM

Most of the "confounded morons" I have come across here have been neither Guests nor anonymous, but "signed in" members well known to us all.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 01:14 PM

Don't bother me much anyway..

I'm a British folkie who aint too interested in Brit Folk and all the petty squabbles..

Not now since I've found so much far more interesting and stimulating East European Folk music
easily available on the internet...

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 02:27 PM

John MacKenzie,

May I offer my apologies for what you considered to be an abusive post. My use of a profanity was unnecessary and uncalled for.

I 'd started the initial thread because I thought people might have been interested to be aware about the programme.

As I expected and is the wont of many current Mudcat contributors, more people wanted to sneer than say thanks, and I perhaps mistakenly, put you under that same umbrella. I much regret that.

John and Steve,

It is extremely easy to change or hide your IP address, so if someone is intent to cause nastiness on this forum (I'm not), it's fairly worthless in terms of identifying them.

As for Steve's suggestion that

the very minimum should be that the moderators know exactly who they are and what their real names and emails are.

How would that work? Any fool can set up an email address under any name within a few minutes. As for knowing exactly who they are what are you suggesting?

Driving Licences, Passports, Birth Certificates, Credit Card details, Bank Statements?

Don't be ridiculous.

Ed

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 02:35 PM

Mudcat surveillance satellites and drones are getting more effective...

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: DaveRo
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 02:46 PM

@GUEST.Ed Thanks for the OP. I still take the Radio Times (as henryp said, there is little space devoted to radio - but that's an infinite amount more than any other publication). But I rarely notice Radio2, so I welcome such posts.

@B2L - thanks for the tips on Radio Scotland too.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00tlyrt/episodes/player

As for the British Isles - well, see wikipedia.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 04:14 PM

Sunday Radio Scotland

Now! 21.00-23.00 Grammy nominated violinist Tessa Lark is in town and joins Jamie hot on the heels of her performances at Celtic Connections. Plus fiddle player and composer Duncan Chisholm shares his My Music and Jamie has highlights from the Big Guitar Weekend recorded late last year.

23.00-01.00 Horse McDonald sits in for Iain Anderson
End the day in the company of the songwriting masters of country, folk, blues, soul and rock 'n' roll.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 04:43 PM

The radio prog was all I wanted in radio. I learned some specific examples of Dylan's plundering of UK folksong. And heard some good music, evocative music, and one contentious concept of "80's Scottish popsong as folk". The case was made IMNSHO.

Give the guy a break, folk music is his life, he knows far more, but only has 4 hours to tell us anything. Not everything is going to be "my" choices, if it was I would already know, listen and learn! The next episodes will certainly contain nuggets, and as many.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 05:34 PM

From the Gaughan Forum rules (sadly defunct following Dick's ill-health):

No anonymous members.
It is a requirement of forum membership that you let the other members know who you are. There is not a single good reason in a forum of this kind for anonymity. If you are normally known by a nickname, by all means use it here; my birth name was Richard but the only people who ever use that are my parents (both dead) and my two sisters and their children. The no-anonymity rule is not here to check people's birth certificates, it is simply so that we all know who we're talking to and the risk of anonymous trolling is reduced. As said, by all means use a nickname on posts but please put your real name in your member profile and you will be asked to give it when registering.

From the Session help page:

Please use your own name

You can choose any name you want for your membership, but please don’t hide behind a pseudonym with any expectation of anonymity. The Session is not a place for making anonymous remarks.

No duplicate memberships

It’s strictly one membership per person here at The Session. Anyone caught faking a new membership will be expelled.

Remember, you can update your email address, name and other preferences from your member profile so you should have no reason to want more than one membership.

Right, Guest Ed (whoever you are)? Both the above websites operate/operated on broadly the same basis as this one. As far as I know, each has a single moderator. Each one tolerates, or tolerated, absolutely no shit whatsoever and they both run/ran their forums exceptionally smoothly, and the mods in question operated with a light touch. I am/was a member of both for many years and can heartily testify to that fact. I have been bollocked many times personally by Jeremy, not quite so many times by Molly. There are people on here, such as Bearded Bruce and Iains, who would not have lasted TWO MINUTES on either site given their demeanour here. Nothing is perfect and arseholes will always try to get round the system. Of course. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. We stopped uninvited guests from posting below the line. Until that happened, one bloke (for example) was posting under his pseudonym at the same time as posting as an unsigned guest in order to call a couple of us Jew-haters. I'm saying we should make registration and being signed-in a general rule for the whole site. I'm convinced that the ethos of this place would improve no end. I mean, sure, signed-in people can be massive vandals. But they get away with it because the moderators are overrun and can't read all the shite, and they know it. But stop the unsigned guests and make this place members-only and the members will militate against in-house transgressors. At Gaughan and The Session, we members follow the rules and we don't appreciate people who try not to. The multiple moderators here can't keep up, and they scrap among themselves. It's a recipe for the wild west, all of it. And it doesn't have to be this way.

Not my gig.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 01:12 PM

My that's a large wooden spoon you have there Hilo

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 05:10 PM

As maps go it seems rather Brexitized.

A week ago I was in a session with 3 Scots, a Greek whondid American old-time and rembetiko, a Korean kayagum player and a Polish scat singer. I play in another session where we do Scottish, Irish, English, Balkan and klezmer. A full-on klezmer seasion next week and I practice weekly with a Middle Eastern group doing Greek, Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic and Persian material with native speakers for all of them. I meet people on buses carrying sitars and djembes around. I've heard our local Chinese orchestra and Japanese taiko group: I know how to find a group that holds classes in Kurdish Alevi music on the saz, though I haven't met them yet.

And the city records for Edinburgh 500 years ago show we were already paying Flemish, Italian, French, English and Romany performers a fair rate for the job.

The map needs a lot more colours in it.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 05:13 PM

In the last couple of days we've had HiLo, HIlo and Hilo...

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: GUEST,Cuthbert Lempriere Holthouse
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 05:32 PM

"Look upon it, and weep"

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 06:50 PM

The post of Feb 3/ 20 was NOT me . I have not posted to this thread since Feb 2 at 9:04.
   The source should not be difficult to find. this place does get smaller and smaller, does it not ?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 07:26 PM

It would be a damn sight easier if everyone was registered and signed in. You can hardly complain, can you?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 07:29 PM

I could have sworn that I'd whimsically and inoffensively asked if Cuthbert was related to Cumberdick Bendybatch. Maybe that post didn't take...

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 09:39 PM

I think Jabberwock Bandersnatch is the name you meant.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 01:40 AM

You really are one-off the small people Steve. I seem to have struck a nerve. I was not complaining, I was clarifying.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 01:46 AM

just started listening the first scottish tune is known in ireland as the killarney boys of pleasure, music knows no borders

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 02:08 AM

however the programme falls down by having too little tradtional folk musicians and too much revival musicians, with a little more understanding of the genre we could have had examples of west highland fiddle styles and other trsadtional styles[ no farquar macrae , plus the complte ignoring of jimmy shand is hard to believe

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 02:11 AM

to understand the genre one has to go to its roots ,instead we get caledonia, what an opportunity missed.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 02:15 AM

here is an example of what should have been there angus granthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADyHCb8q7eM seth lakeman could have done better

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 02:17 AM

oh no not feckin bob dylan ,jaysus christ

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 02:23 AM

but good to hear scottish mouth music

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 02:37 AM

good to hear Ewan MacColl.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: Jim McLean
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 03:41 AM

I heard that "Gaelic was another Scottish dialect, Hamish Henderson's Freedom Come All Ye was written in the 1920s and that Phil Cunningham was a regular in the Scotia".
What "facts" can I accept in future programs?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: r.padgett
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 04:30 AM

Lot of Scottish input to start with ~ no one asked my opinion on Yorkshire songs or Gardham ~ but the young thrusters and professional singers of course get to sing and are given their opinions ~ so be it

Ray

Subject: RE: BBC Radio: Folk Map of the British Isles
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 04:43 AM

Roy , that is the problem ,because they are professional singers they are not necessarily best qualified to talk about the roots of the music.
I think LAKEMAN did acknowledge a little bit of scottish roots, and there was a very superficial discussion of style between east and west coast, but bob dylan and caledonia, i mean why not donald wheres your trousers if we are going to have cal;edonia