BS: Death brushes by

Subject: BS: Death brushes by
From: NicoleC
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 02:22 AM

I just spent a lovely evening... my neighbor on the other side of a shared wall decided to hang himself. Right by the front door where his girlfriend could walk in on him when she got home. Poor girl! She totally lost it!

I learned quite a few things tonight.

I have amazing neighbors -- so many people were there to help, and dozens came running when she started screaming. I learned that at least some of my local sheriff's are pretty amazing, too, and they and the ambulance showed up in about 7 minutes. Several hours too late; the man had been dead for a long time by the time she got home. And the chaplain was great.

I also learned that some of my neighbors couldn't handle the idea and quickly retreated to ther homes once they found out there was a dead body involved.

I learned that the fact that you're in your threadbare long johns running around outside sometimes doesn't mean a darn thing.

I learned that patting someone on the back and making consoling noises and hugging them is almost useless, but when Mom shows up and does the same thing it's perfect. (Call your mother and tell her you love her.) Nonetheless I'm exhausted from trying to absorb some of her grief and rage and self-recriminations. And too wound up to go to bed.

I also learned that at some point yours truly gets selfish enough to wonder when the hell everyone is going to go home and let me go to bed after 6 hours of coroners and chaplains and sheriff's deputies traipsing in and out of my house. And WHO left skid marks and stunk up the bathroom that bad?! Such little whiny things to be worried about... er, I think that probably negates any karma brownie points I might have tallied up for making her go to my house and volunteering to have everyone over.

The worst of it is that I simply don't understand how one could be so shallow and selfish to kill themselves in a way that was going to cause the most pain to the one closest to them. He'd planned it for days (as the story came out, this way clear) -- how could he not plan to do it somewhere less... damaging? I can understand suicide; I can't understand this. Was it a last attempt to hurt the world that he felt so hurt by?

The things you learn -- she told me that he liked to listen to me practice. I had no idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Death brushes by
From: open mike
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 03:48 AM

oh nicole--so sorry to hear that your life has been touched by this tragedy. Good to know that your music has brought enjoyment to the
girl in the past. Wonder if she will stay in that house? Might be
too difficult. shared wall? duplex? thanks for giving your hugs, your house and your concern to the situation, and being open to the lessons to be learned from such an event. did you know him well? Any inkling or clues that he was feeling so hopeless? well be strong, and carry on and if anything at all you want to talk about, i am here, almost in the neighborhood. I am an E.M.T., and have seen death: natural and
un-natural. Laurel

Subject: RE: BS: Death brushes by
From: smallpiper
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 05:14 AM

Things like this make one appreciate life so much more, no matter how crap it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Death brushes by
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 06:06 AM

If you can, encourage her to get counseling. Some years ago a friend of mine experienced much the same thing -- she found her husband hanging in the garage -- and she has been institutionalized ever since, her sons in foster care.

And if you need it get some yourself. In the meantime, try playing your feelings.

Subject: RE: BS: Death brushes by
From: Bagpuss
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 07:39 AM

"I also learned that some of my neighbors couldn't handle the idea and quickly retreated to ther homes once they found out there was a dead body involved."

Maybe some of these people didn't know the couple very well and didn't want to seem intrusive.

"The worst of it is that I simply don't understand how one could be so shallow and selfish to kill themselves in a way that was going to cause the most pain to the one closest to them. He'd planned it for days (as the story came out, this way clear) -- how could he not plan to do it somewhere less... damaging? I can understand suicide; I can't understand this. Was it a last attempt to hurt the world that he felt so hurt by?"

You have to remember that it is very probable that the balance of his mind was so disturbed that you can't judge it by your own rational standards. As someone who has suffered from severe depression, I know I considered doing many things then is grief and ger and depression, which I would find horrific to consider now. Your mind works in a totally different way when you are in that place, and I now find it a lot more difficult to judge other people who are thinking in such a distorted way.

That said, it must have been very traumatic for you - and even more so for the poor girl who found him, and my thoughts are with you.

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: BS: Death brushes by
From: Kim C
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 09:51 AM

Oh my stars. I am sooooooo, so sorry.

Depression is a big liar and makes people think things that aren't true at all. Once the downward spiral begins, it's easy to get sucked into it.

Y'all be there for each other, and do get counseling if you need it.

Subject: RE: BS: Death brushes by
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 10:18 AM

Wow, Nicole, I'm soooo sorry. I've been there, and it's so difficult to know what to do. Having a good group of folks on the mudcat can't hurt.

Rick and Heather

Subject: RE: BS: Death brushes by
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 11:36 AM

I'm really sorry to hear this Nicole. I don't know what else to say. Take care of yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Death brushes by
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 11:48 AM

Just awful.........can't say what I would do in a case like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Death brushes by
From: Amos
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 12:06 PM

Nicole,

My sympathy for a very rough passage, and skid marks or none, I think you earned plenty of karma by standing up and being counted -- it is not the thoughts, it's the acts that make the balance.

As to how someone could do such a thing in such a way, there's a point in the decline of human emotion where the compass needle simply swings south, and the whole calculation becomes inverted -- helping the future by destroying, as crazy as it sounds. In those straits the action that harms the most becomes th emost advisable, so inverted is the thinking. Yes, it is irrational. It is the core mechanism of irrationality, IMHO.

The reward for those who survive such an encounter is realizing how deep "down" can go and how much there is to celebrate in the ordinary accomplishments of living.

What a catastrophe. I only hope your neighbor finds her way out and gets a perspective on it free of shame and self-blame (which would be extremely misplaced), and finds a place from which to go on with her life with whatever lessons she can garner from it, but --eventually --without any scars.

Keep on keepin' on, dear gal!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Death brushes by
From: Mark Clark
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 12:27 PM

Nicole, I wish I could say I don't know what you're talking about. I'm sorry to hear this story but glad to hear how you've dealt with it. I suspect suicide is more often a desparate act of rage against someone else than a genuine desire to die. The suicides that have touched my life have been of the same nature, only more gruesome.

As you point out, this had been in the works for a long time and there was probably no way to have seen the level of his desperation it time to change the course of events.

Be good to yourself and let it go as soon as you can.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Death brushes by
From: *daylia*
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 12:30 PM

Nicole, you have my heartfelt sympathy - and empathy too.   It's really hard to offer people shelter from the storm without getting at least a bit soggy yourself, so to speak. But time does heal just about everything ...

Years ago, one of my neighbours was going through a very tough time. He'd just lost his job, and his girlfriend of 6 years (the only one he'd ever had) walked out on him. He started drinking heavily, aggravating his depression.

And one winter's day he went to his girlfriend's new place and told her that if she refused to go back with him he was going to shoot himself. She held her ground, and followed him back to his car where he took a hunting rifle out of the trunk and shot himself in the head - twice - right in front of her, and her grandmother.

His father, the local fire chief, was the one who responded to her 911 call. The young man was DOA. He was 21 years old.

I was very upset for quite a while - feeling guilty because he'd been at my door that very morning looking to talk, but I'd been so busy with my own kids that day I couldn't give him any time. And it took a while to get over my anger at him - the devastation on his parent's faces, the grief of his siblings. Not to mention the 3 months his girlfriend had to spend in the hospital recovering from his cruelty.

Anyway, that's my story. I'm sharing it here so you'll know you're not alone.

All the very best to you and your neighbours - daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Death brushes by
From: NicoleC
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 12:35 PM

I think she's moving out, and I think she should. (It's a condo by the way; hence the shared wall.) There's no point in her living there if it will only bring her grief. I really doubt I'll ever see her again.

I'm a little hazy this morning after only 2 hours of sleep, but I'm still amazed at the neighbors' collective reaction, especially since none of us knew her. Some of us has spoken to him on occassion. It's sure comforting to know if *I* start screaming one night, lots of people will come running!

He seemed to have had a lot of pain and problems going on, judging from the stories I heard last night. Unemployed for a long time, doesn't get to see his kids very often, a history of drug abuse and prison time... but he had cleaned up his act as was doing well. The deputies said that they'd had a lot of suicides like this lately. I think maybe people are getting desperate; there certainly isn't much hope in the world right now, and I guess he couldn't find within himself. Ultimately, that's the only place that hope matters.

I know that people who are suicidal aren't rational, but he was rational enough to have planned a special weekend for the two of them beforehand and arranged for her to get a ride home from someone else. She was obviously the last person he was thinking about; so why not think of that detail, too? Well, I guess we'll never know.

Good thing I'm not a particularly morbid person, or I'd have to move out, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Death brushes by
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 12:44 PM

It must've been good to hear that he enjoyed your playing; sad that he wasn't able to express that to you himself. Really sorry to hear of this.

I don't know if suicides really think past the actual moment of doing themselves in. I mean if they actually think about what happens after, in a practical way, i.e. who will find them, who will have to deal with it all. I don't think my uncle did. My aunt found him in the garage, sitting in his chair, dead from a gunshot wound. They were both alcoholics, but I don't think he had any rage or vindictivenss towards her. He was just in physical and emotional pain for too long and decided to stop it. My cousin had to clean up the debris. That's another thing I don't think they think about.

Good for you for keeping your head and for being generous with your space, shoulder, and ability to act. I think you've got many, many more karmic brownie points than you might think with this.:-)

Take care,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Death brushes by
From: NicoleC
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 01:35 PM

You all have wonderful comments and I really appreciate sharing your stories and thoughts!

I think you're right, Kat. Maybe they just don't think beyond the part where they are dead and out of pain.

Subject: RE: BS: Death brushes by
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 03:02 PM

Nicole,

It has been touched upon already, the reaction I experienced to your telling of this. It sounds like the way in which he conducted his suicide was an angry "so there!" directed at the girlfriend.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Death brushes by
From: Amos
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 03:20 PM

'Course, Kat, your remarks lead me to reflect that if one were to decide rationally to blow out one's brains one would do it sitting inside a thirty-gallon trashbag, or perhaps just walk over to the dump and do it there. It would make much more sense. But, OTH, people desparate enough to wipe out a whole identitiy aren't usually in condition to weigh consequences clearly. It's like solving a credit problem by burning your card rather than by learning how to use it intelligently -- a drastic, extreme solution by its nature admits little reasoning, and often addresses the wrong problem altogether!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Death brushes by
From: Tinker
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 03:29 PM

Nichole, lots of good stuff here already... just remember to reach out to folks when you need to.( here or in PM or real time or a counselor ) How well you knew him may not be the best indicator of how you find yourself affected. Believe me your open door counts more than impatient thoughts. Just keep on...

Blessings
Tinker

Subject: RE: BS: Death brushes by
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 04:18 PM

Amos,

I started to add onto, but then edited off of my earlier post, an observation about a friend who shot himself last summer. He drove to a public place (I'm sure this was so his children wouldn't find him) and stepped out of his pickup and shot himself. He left a note in the truck to the affect "Notify my wife what I have done." No other notes were found. This also smacks of the "so there" mentality I mentioned above. They'd had difficulties for many years, and argued the night before. He had medical conditions and medications that may have helped precipitate this act.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Death brushes by
From: Amos
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 04:48 PM

Desperation seems to come from many places, but, IMHO, it always comes from the center.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Death brushes by
From: Bardford
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 05:41 PM

The thread title is very evocative, Nicole - like part of an unfinished Haiku.

We learn from the lives and deaths of others, (we must; else what are we here for?) and you made that clear in your post. Sometimes the lessons are a long time coming, other times they are more immediate. The important thing is that you were there, you opened up your home, bathroom and all, and you were competent and capable when it was needed. The girlfriend is fortunate that it is you next door. It's poignant that in the midst of her shock, she could let you know that you impacted his life with your music. You never know, you never know...

Take Care
Bradford