history of English army song

Subject: history of English army song
From: GUEST,Allan S.
Date: 06 Feb 03 - 01:50 PM

I DO NOT need the words to "I don't want to Join the army,I don't want to go to war,I'd rather hang around Picadilly underground living of the earnings of a high price lady" etc. etc.
What I need is the history of the song. WW-1 WW-2.?? Music Hall?
When did it become popular??? Who wrote it ? and all that good stuff.
I learned it in service about 1950 but I am sure it is much older...
Any ideas??

Subject: RE: history of English army song
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Feb 03 - 02:30 PM

I'm pretty sure it's Great War vintage. This site seems to indicate that anyway.

Subject: ADD: I Don't Want to Join the Army
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Feb 03 - 03:21 PM

For the sake of discussion, it's best to post lyrics if we don't have them. these lyrics are from the site McGrath cited.
Hmmm. I have to say I don't know the tune to "On Sunday I Walk Out with a soldier."
-Joe Offer-

---

I DON'T WANT TO JOIN THE ARMY
Tune: 'On Sunday I walk out with a soldier'

I don't want to join the army,
I don't want to go to war.
I'd rather hang around Piccadilly underground,
Living off the earnings of a lady typist.
I don't want a bayonet in my belly,
I don't want my bollocks shot away.
I'd rather stay in England, in merry merry England,
And fornicate this bleeding life away.

Subject: RE: history of English army song
From: nutty
Date: 06 Feb 03 - 03:27 PM

Did a quick search using Google and in general it was felt to be a WW1 song ..... It was used in "Oh what a Lovely War" so you may be able to trace some history that way.

Found a verse I'd not come across before here ...
CLICK

Subject: RE: history of English army song
From: GUEST,Allan S.
Date: 06 Feb 03 - 04:33 PM

THanks Nutty THat is the version that I learned years ago. It also appears in "The dirty Song Book" By Jerry Silverman

Subject: RE: history of English army song
From: Hrothgar
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 05:21 AM

Somewhere in the back of my mind I remember hearing a radio programme where they played a song from a Noel Coward show. This original song was actually a recruiting song and the show came out in the early thirties.

The tune was the one used for this song.

Any Noel Coward experts out there?

Subject: RE: history of English army song
From: Susan of DT
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 06:09 AM

There is a longer version in the digital tradition.

I DON'T WANT TO JOIN THE ARMY

I don't want to join the army
I don't want to go to war.
I would rather hang around
Picadilly's underground
A'livin off the earnings of a 'igh born lady

I don't want a bullet in me backside,
I don't want me buttocks (or arsehole) shot away.
I would rather stay in Lunnon,
Jolly, jolly Lunnon
And fornicate me bloomin' life away, Gor Blimey

Call out the Army and the Navy
Call out the rank and file.
Call out the brave Territorials
They face danger with a smile!
Call out the King's Militia
They kept England free!
Call out me brother
Me father or me mother
But for Gawd's sake don't call me.

@soldier @war @coward
filename[ JOINARMY
TUNE FILE: JOINARMY
CLICK TO PLAY
RG

Subject: RE: history of English army song
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 07:34 AM

"On Sunday I walk out with a soldier" was in "Oh What a Lovely War" too - I've got a feeling that might be Boer War vintage.

This site - SOLDIERS' SONGS: THE FOLKLORE OF THE POWERLESS is well worth looking at - and it's got a different set of words to "I don't want to join the army", claimed to date from the Peninsula War against Napoleon:

I don't want the Sergeant's shilling,
I don't want to be shot down;
I'm really much more willing
To make myself a killing,
Living off the pickings of the Ladies of the Town;
Don't want a bullet up my bumhole,
Don't want my cobblers minced with ball;
For if I have to lose 'em
Then let it be with Susan
Or Meg or Peg or any whore at all.

(There's a second verse as well, which would constitute bawdy drift of this thread.)

Subject: RE: history of English army song
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 08:18 AM

The English army ceased to exist almost 300 years ago!

Subject: RE: history of English army song
From: Schantieman
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 08:23 AM

About when it became the British Army and the British 'Navy Royal' stopped being that and became the Royal Navy.

I don't think the tune is quite the same as On Sunday I walk out with a soldier

Steve

Subject: Lyr Add: I'LL MAKE A MAN OF YOU
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 08:27 AM

For the "On Sunday I walk out" see Here

In fact, I think it requires quoting in full. The history behind it can be found later.

The War in Song

Pupils used information from :

Great War Songs

http://www.ishk.org/files/war_songs_9812.html

Trenches on the Web

http://www.worldwar1.com/media.htm



I'LL MAKE A MAN OF YOU

The Army and the Navy need attention,
The outlook isn't healthy you'll admit,
But I've got a perfect dream of a new recruiting scheme,
Which I think is absolutely it.
If only other girls would do as I do
I believe that we could manage it alone,
For I turn all suitors from me but the sailor and the Tommy,
I've an army and a navy of my own.

On Sunday I walk out with a Soldier,
On Monday I'm taken by a Tar,
On Tuesday I'm out with a baby Boy Scout,
On Wednesday a Hussar;
On Thursday a gang oot wi' a Scottie,
On Friday, the Captain of the crew;
But on Saturday I'm willing, if you'll only take the shilling,
To make a man of any one of you.

I teach the tenderfoot to face the powder,
That gives an added lustre to my skin,
And I show the raw recruit how to give a chaste salute,
So when I'm presenting arms he's falling in.
It makes you almost proud to be a woman.
When you make a strapping soldier of a kid.
And he says 'You put me through it and I didn't want to do it
But you went and made me love you so I did.'

On Sunday I walk out with a Bo'sun.
On Monday a Rifleman in green,
On Tuesday I choose a 'sub' in the 'Blues',
On Wednesday a Marine;
On Thursday a Terrier from Tooting,
On Friday a Midshipman or two,
But on Saturday I'm willing, if you'll only take the shilling,
To make a man of any one of you.


Originally a recruiting song from the music hall. Hence the
"On Saturday I'm willing, if you'll only take the shilling,
To make a man of any one of you." Which relates to the basic enlistment payment of "The Queen's/King's shilling"


Nigel

Subject: RE: history of English army song
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 08:31 AM

Obviously WWI not earlier, as the Boy Scouts only started in 1907.

The "taking of the Queen's shilling" was presumed when the Navy "Press-ganged" men from the pubs of an earlier time. Recruitment officers would provide a round of drinks for men who appeared well intoxicated, and a shilling would be found in the bottom of the tankard, hence showing that the men had "Accepted the shilling". The men would wake up the next day already at sea.

Nigel

Subject: RE: history of English army song
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 08:35 AM

Most of the above should make sense to those 'across the pond', except possibly V4. In that verse the mention of "A Terrier" does not mean a dog, but is a nickname for a member of the "Territorial Army", i.e. the British Army Reservists.

Nigel

Subject: RE: history of English army song
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 04:07 AM

Roy Palmer's book "What a Lovely War" says it was "A song from The Passing Show of 1914, a revue at the London Hippodrome, seized on and parodied by soldiers of the First World War. Their version was heard again in France in 1939, sung by members of the new British Expeditionary Force. Canadian soldiers also sang it".

Presumbably the song parodied was 'On Sunday I walk out with a soldier'.

Anyone hearing the tune would say "Oh, that's 'I don't want to join the army'". I don't think anyone would know it under its original title!

LFF

Subject: RE: history of English army song
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 06:17 AM

Where's the Walrus when you need him? Try PM'ing him. He is a keen military historian. ditto Max Arthur (I have his e-mail address) and Roy Palmer (no e-mail address)

Subject: RE: history of English army song
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 11:10 AM

A connection with "The Passing Show of 1914" is confirmed Here in an article from 1985

Nigel

Subject: RE: history of English army song
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 05:00 PM

I don't think anyone would know it under its original title!

Anybody who's seen a production of "Oh What a Lovely War", or watched the film would be likely to know it as "On Sunday I walk out with a soldier." And it gets sung often enough on Music Hall nights.

True the Boy Scout line implies after 1907 (though it's easy enough to slip in a line to bring a song up to date), and there's "The Passing Show of 1914", but again that's not conclusive evidence the song was new coined at the time. Likely enough it was though, unless evidence to the contrary turns up.

As fpr that alleged precursor from the Peninsular War which I quoted - I'm a bit sceptical about it, but it'd be interesting to follow it up; with the implication, if it were true, that it'd be the "Sunday" song that was the parody.

Subject: RE: history of English army song
From: The Walrus
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 08:57 AM

I'm with others on this point.

"I'll make a man of You" makes mention of the Boy Scouts (1907) and the Territorial Force (1908) (Not Terrirorial Army until sometime in the 1920s/30s) and that version must, therefore, post date these and. I have come across nothing similar for the Boer war period so I'm willing to go along with the view that it is initially from the Great War.

"I Don't Want to be a Soldier" is quoted both in Brophey and Partridge ("The Long Trail") - where it is credit thus:

"...the original, we are told, belonged to a revue, The Passing Show of 1914, and was sung at the London Hippodrome."

and in "Oh! It's a Lovely War" (EMI Music) where it is credited thus:

"Parody of:- I'll make a man of you.
Original words by Arthur Wimperis   Music by Herman Finck " and is given a copyright mark
"1914 Francis Day & Hunter Ltd., London (U.K.)"

I hope this might be of help.

Walrus

Subject: RE: history of English army song
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 10:35 AM

The vesion we heard came from an old family friend, British expatriot, world class sailor, co-inventor of amphibious DUCK in WW II, naturalist, bird painter, Denis Puleston of Brookheaven, Long Island, New York.

I Don't Want to be a Soldier-4

(This "Call out my Mother..." chorus is cribbed from a version of "Boys of the Old Brigade"; parody of "I'll Make a Man Out of You")


Monday I touched her on the ankle,
Tuesday I touched her on the knee,
Wednesday with success I lifted up her dress,
Thursday her chemise, gor-blimey!
Friday I put my hand upon it,
Saturday she gave me balls a tweak,
But it was Sunday after supper,
I rammed it up her scupper,
Now I do it seven days a week, gor-blimey!

I don't want to join the Army,
I don't want me knackers shot away,
I just want to hang around,
Piccadilly underground,
Living off the earnings of a high born lady,
Call out the Army and the Navy,
Call out the old Home Guard,
You can always call the Bold Territorials,
They'll save England with a smile, gor-blimey!

Call out me mother and me brother,
Call out the old Home Guard;
You can call out me mother,
Me sister and me brother,
But for God's sake, don't call me!

Although Denis died some two years ago there are times I swear I can still hear echoes of him singing this at the top of his lungs!

Be nice if this could be traced back to the Nepolianic war period; looks promising to me.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: history of English army song
From: The Walrus
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 06:26 AM

Charley,

Your old friend's song seems to be a medley of three different pieces (or more accurately, I have encountered them as three different songs).

The first, ("Monday Night") appears in several very similar forms (The versions I know both end up with :-
"And now I'm paying seven and six/thirty bob a week - maintainance" presumably the different sums reflect the different rates of child maintenance over the years).

The second seems to be an amalgam of "I don't want to be a soldier" and a variant on "Boys of the Old Brigade"

and the third is, again a parody of "Boys of the Old Brigade"

The version of "BotOB" I've heard ran, as follows:
(To a tune based on the march "Boys of the Old brigade")

"Send for the boys of the Girls' Brigade
"Send out the Rank and file,
"Send out the Army and the Navy
"They'll face danger with a smile.
"Send out the Brave Territorials
"They'll keep the Empire free.
"Send out my Mother,
"My sister or my brother,
"But for Gawds' sake don't send me."

Brophey & Partridge quote a slightly different version:

"Send Out the Army and the Navy"
Air: Music-hall tune

"Send out the Army and the Navy,
"Send out the Rank and file,
"Send out the brave Territorials,
"They'll face danger with a smile
"(I don't think!)
"Send out my Mother,
"Send out my sister and my brother,
"But for Gawds' sake don't send me!"


Any use to anyone?

Regards

Walrus

Subject: RE: history of English army song
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 08:30 AM

Your remarks make a lot of sense to me, Walrus.

What is hard to convey is the "spirit" in which these old songs were sung, and Denis had a powerful set of lungs.

Some of Denis' sailing around the world adventures in the late 1930's are chronicled in his BLUE WATER VAGABONDS, which was reprinted about 5 years ago and should be available from Bookfinder.com and the like. It's a great read.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: history of English army song
From: Wotcha
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 10:48 PM

Still sung by rugby clubs during the "Third Half ..."

Cheers,

Brian