BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!

Subject: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 08:43 AM

Hey Bobert, I got a Washington Post news flash just for you this morning. In this little article about Kerry's disclosure about his special interest meetings:

Kerry Issues List Detailing Contacts With Lobbyists

it names one Boss Hogg as one of his great benefactors! Here is what it says:

"The records highlight Kerry's relationship with this city's most influential Democratic lobbyists, such as Thomas Hale Boggs Jr. of the powerhouse firm, Patton Boggs, who was granted several personal meetings, and telecommunications, technology and banking companies. In 1999, for instance, Kerry, who was working on several telecommunications issues, met twice with Ivan Seidenberg of Bell Atlantic (now Verizon) and lunched with Gerald Cassidy, a top lobbyist who represented several companies affected by the senator's actions on the Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee."

There you have it. Boss Hogg hisself.

Go Greens, vote Nader!

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: freda underhill
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 09:31 AM

Some old friends of ralph Nader's in Australia, including politicians, journalists and environmentalists, are sending Ralph Nader a letter asking him not to stand again.

(see full article at:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,9216526%5E12272,00.html)

excerpts below:

Rein in your crusade, Ralph; Phillip Adams, The Australian; April 10, 2004

AN urgent phone call from Barry Jones in Italy, where he's attending an education conference: "We've got to organise a letter to Ralph!" I tell him it's too late: Nader's been on CNN, confirming his presidential candidacy. Which may, yet again, prove catastrophic.

The scene was a farewell dinner at Melbourne University and Jones's guests were Sir Macfarlane Burnet and his wife, Linda (who, sadly, was dying of leukaemia), former Liberal PM John Gorton, Graham Perkin, Gordon Barton and myself. Perkin, the former Age editor, was goading Barton who, having made millions out of IPEC, had launched the Australia Party, a precursor to Don Chipp's Democrats.

Burnet, one of Australia's greatest scientists, was arguing with Gorton who, slightly pissed, was talking about his plans (fortunately unrealised) for Australia to "go nuclear" in power generation. The Nobel Laureate rattled off objection after objection. Radioactivity would cause innumerable cases of leukaemia, a fact emphasised by his wife's silent presence. There was no safe way to store nuclear waste. Worse still, any nuclear power plant would, in due course, provide a perfect target for terrorists. No, the only safe answer was solar power, and Mac drew a sketch on the tablecloth.

He told us that a solar collector, measuring just 160 kilometres by 160 kilometres, a dot in the middle of the Nullarbor, would capture sufficient energy to run the entire planet. Nader was fascinated, exhilarated. It was like St Joan hearing her voices. He returned to the US and changed his focus from Detroit to, yes, the nuclear industry.

Nader is one of the most important figures of the 20th century. Around the world, he triggered a tsunami of legislation to protect the consumer and the environment. To use an overused word, he "empowered" the public, almost tipping the balance in their favour.

Yet there's a danger he'll leave the world in a worse mess than before. He played a significant role in the election of George W. Bush by leaching votes from Gore.

Bush has demolished almost every one of Nader's achievements, not only trashing Kyoto but tearing up the rule books on domestic environmental protection. And he's not only contemplating nuclear power but, yes, the deployment of tactical nuclear weapons. Yet, deaf to the entreaties of his American friends, a defiant Nader is running again and he could, in a close election, give Bush a second term.

Jones has circulated a letter among Nader's Australian friends – and I think that all of us, without exception, will co-sign. Australia changed Nader's mind back in 1972. Okay, it's a long shot. But perhaps, just perhaps, Australia can do it again.
......................

end of article

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 10:17 AM

Fine, Freda. Here is what I have to say. Ralph Nader has a right to exercise his constitutional right to run as a third party independent candidate, regardless of what that does to the Democratic party.

Have any of the Anybody But Bush anti-Naderites considered how you will all look to the American electorate if Bush wins by landslide margins this year? No? Well, you should, considering the Republicrats track record since Jimmy Carter.

If Bush wins by a landslide, who will the Republicrats blame when they won't be able to say that the Republicans/Supreme Court/Ralph Nader stole their election?

Answer: maybe they'll have to look at their loser candidates, and ways they sold out their party and their country, so they could keep their fat cat jobs Washington.

Your fellow citizens bashing Ralph Nader for doing what any citizen of the US has a constitutional, democratic right to do--which is run independent of the rigged two party system to strike a blow against the empire, fall on deaf ears, freda. Why? Because the two party system is a large part of the problem. But the biggest part of the problem is the corruption and graft levels in the Democratic party and Republican party. Voting for John Kerry or George Bush will do absolutely nothing now, or down the line, to end that corruption and graft.

When you compare the two candidates positions on the main issues facing voters in this election, their views and positions are nearly identical. That gives Bush a tremendous advantage as the incumbent. The only other candidate who was more unelectable than Kerry in the Democratic primaries was Joe Lieberman, who was on the last losing ticket. The youth vote is now totally alienated and feels totally sold out by the Dems. So does the party's progressive wing.

So who is going to go out and campaign and get out the vote for Kerry? Mudcat duffers who are glued to their computers? I don't think so. Nobody is impassioned and fired up about this candidate, and most Democrats and independents are completely demoralized by him. Kerry's handlers and spinners are trying to sell him now as the "dispassionate liberal".

Whatever. Smells like Bush landslide to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: el ted
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 10:26 AM

Boring.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: freda underhill
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 10:29 AM

you need proportional representation in the US, like we have in Oz. Then preferences get distributed, and no one gets sabotaged.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 10:44 AM

Right freda, but we don't have it. So each party, each group of interests, has to decide on their own, what their tactics will be in the political arena. I've done grassroots organizing outside the two party system my whole adult life. This isn't anything new to me.

Back in 1980, it was "Anybody But Reagan" and "Nobody for President" and "Shoot Bush First". Nothing has changed. The last Democratic presidential candidate to truly fire up the people was JFK in 1960, and he barely got in on a squeaker. Carter got in only because of the disgust with Republicans over Watergate. Clinton got in running on an African American friendly Dixiecrat platform which co-opted the Republican agenda.

The American electorate clearly wants conservative presidents. If we are to accept the will of the people, we have to learn not only to live with the people's choice, but also work to change the direction and the policies of the federal govenment, regardless of who sits in the White House.

But as I said, none of this news. Everyone said the sky was falling when Reagan was elected. And when Shrub the First beat Dukakis in a landslide. This is same ole same ole for politically active progressives. Its the middle class, who is finally starting to feel the pain that the working class and the poor have been feeling all along, who are panicked at the thought of four more years of Bush--because his policies are finally hitting them where they live.

I mean, c'mon--anybody seen John Kerry campaigning at a women's shelter? Anybody seen John Kerry making promises to end homelessness, or child hunger in the US? Fat fucking chance of that.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 12:31 PM

Ahhhh, I believe that was Boss Bogg and not Boss Hog in the article but hey, that's just twiddle-dee/twidle-dum stuff to me...

As fir Nadar running. He should because ever since the DNC/RNC joined in the assisination ofr Howard Dean the Dems are have made a u-turn to the right that give this ol' hillbilly a bad case of whiplash...

So we need Nadar to keep pitchin' progressive ideas on tough issues and not let the election become too *Teribus-ed* in its narrow focus in right field.

BTW, I have written to Webster to have "Teribus" added as a verb, transcient and intransient as well as an adjective... That oughtta give him a big head!...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 01:22 PM

OK Bobert, it was before my eyes had their caffeine adjustment--you got me there.

I love the idea of Teribus as a verb or an adverb, if he doesn't qualify--it wouldn't be such a bad idea to modifier him anyway, dont ya think?

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 02:09 PM

If these kinds of threads are boring to you, el ted, why are you reading them? Doesn't sound very smart to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 02:19 PM

Ha! I just looked around in some other threads. el ted, it looks like you're just going around opening threads and posting "boring" at the bottome of all of them. You certainly sound like a towering intellect to me. I stand in awe of your massive brain.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: Art Thieme
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 08:51 PM

So many words.

All that needs to be said is NADER IS WRONG !

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 11:47 PM

Yep, Art. Some folks are so tied up in there hatred for whatever the hell they are against, that they are willing to fly into the flame to make a point. Sorry, but I just can't go along. Like it or not, this is a choice between Bush and Kerry. Anything else is an exercise in making a point.... with disastrous consequences. But please, don't let the fact that the rest of us will have to pay for your stupidity stop you. Hell, we love sacrificing our future so you can make the point.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 07:25 AM

That's right Big Mick. You do have to live with the way your fellow citizens vote, regardless of whether you like the results, and accept the outcome.

It's called democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 12:26 PM

Yep, that is a lesson I don't need from you. I am a doer, as opposed to someone who sits at work and spews crap that is not supported by fact or logic. In fact, I understand the concept of having to live with how folks voted so well, that I am living with a President now that was elected as a result of Nader's megalomania.

And, in the fashion of a true demagogue, he has a devoted acolyte in you. Keep up the good work.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 02:22 PM

Why thank you Big Mick, I intend to keep up the work.

But I don't understand how Nader's votes elected Bush. I'm pretty sure in the US, for someone to get half the popular vote, they can't be in someone else's name.

So I have a fab idea for you. How about you spew hatred in the direction it belongs--at the people who voted for Bush? I mean let's face it. Bush couldn't have gotten half the popular vote without them, now could he?

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 02:27 PM

Actually, I don't hate you, nor am I directing hate at you. A bit of pity perhaps, but no hate. It is crystal clear that folks see that you are incapable of seeing the forest for the trees. And your ridiculously disengenuous (sp?) denial of understanding the effect of Nader on the election denies you any credibility.

So please continue on, everytime you post you bolster my contention about you.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 02:36 PM

OK.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: DougR
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 04:30 PM

GUEST: you could always vote for Bush you know! :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 05:17 PM

And you could vote for Nader! :)

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 10:39 PM

Actually, folks, if a vote for Nadar is a backhanded vote for Bush, hey, I'm fine with that. Looks as if America and "Souhtern Man" need 4 more years of Bush to swear off on the Christain Right, old Nazi's and the Reuplican Party for good...

So, in the words of the Idiot in Chief, "Bring it on!"

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: dianavan
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 01:54 AM

Haven't you had enough of the "New World Order?" Isn't it time to take a stand? Most of the world is powerless to stop this steam roller of corporate control. Multi-nationals are ruling the world and only an American president can change that. We can't take four more years of Bush or Kerry. The world is watching and hoping. Its up to you. The time is now or never.

You seem to think that if Kerry wins, the progressives can influence his decisions. He hasn't demonstrated that he opposes anything that Bush has done. He only promises to "tone it down". Do you really think that will solve anything? Don't be so conservative. Show some real courage! Vote for change!

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert! Boss Hogg is Supporting Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 08:00 AM

What I find the most interesting is all the people who said they opposed the war on Iraq, some of whom went to the demos, etc. are now apologists for Kerry's pro-war stance, and intend to vote for him.

Just how is voting in another pro-war candidate supposed to end the Anglo American war on the Iraqi people specifically, and the Arab and Muslim world in general? We need to stop these wars for oil. Anyone heard about what is happening in Nigeria of late?