Dylan picked up for street walking (Aug 2009)

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: gnu
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 01:32 PM

Azizi... I am just so sick and tired of peeps turning a simple situation, discussion, debate... into an issue of race.

Bob didn't have any ID... that is one of two things... forgetful or stunned... white or black or purple poka dot... race need not be brought into everything.

I think if you go back and read carefully, you might change your tune.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: gnu
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 01:37 PM

Ron??? WTF? I did not say that. I suggest you go back and read again as well.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 01:38 PM

gnu - I'm sick of it too. I wish we could all wake up tomorrow and not even know anymore that there was such a concept as "race".

Do rabbits fight with each other over what color the other rabbit is? Do they divide up into grey rabbits, brown rabbits, and white rabbits and fight about it? No. They don't. They'e all just rabbits, period. They're evidently not nearly as misguided as people in that respect.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 01:39 PM

'Now, I am very much against any "police state", but walking around ANYWHERE without ANY ID is just stunned'

I beg your pardon???

I have never in my life made any effort (or had the need) to carry identification at all time and have never been asked to produce any (except when cashing cheques, crossing borders and that sort of obvious thing). Any place where police can whisk you off the street for the sole reason of NOT having ID on you would seem uncomfortable to me.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 01:40 PM

gnu, White people in the USA and Canada and Britian have the luxury not to consider race as a factor.

People of color don't have that luxury.

Does race impact everything? No. But unfortunately, race is more of a factor than most people on Mudcat think.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 01:44 PM

Yes, it is. But when will humanity in general just grow up and get over it? And how could we each assist in making that happen? By dealing with each person as a unique individual rather than as a "race" stereotype, I would think.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: gnu
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 01:48 PM

Okay... a different appraoch. Say, you have an accident... no ID... that is just stunned. Got nothin to do with the police. Just bein stunned.

Azizi... I think the world of you and your edifying posts and discussions, as you are well aware. However, do not purport to assume I do not know anything racisim. Making this a thread about racism disgusts me... plain and simple. If you call that being racist, well... as I said before... I shant say anymore.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 02:04 PM

lol I cannot believe this thread.

1) Shocked at being expected to carry ID? hahhahahah
2) Disbelieving that a person could be/would be/ should be accosted by police?
3) 5:00 PM is the "middle of the night"?
4) Your own country would not do such a thing? hahahhah
5) Can't let it go as being funny that young police officers didn't recognize Dylan? That, as mentioned above by a couple of posters, is the point, nothing else.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Amos
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 02:05 PM

Liberty is an excellent First Principle. We "believe in it". as CS says upthread. Practice is a trickier equation.

Interestingly, there is chain of connection between creating a business environment that generates major class divisions between wealth and poverty, and creating a loss of liberty. The intermediary link is public danger as a backlash from economic oppression. We delegate the management of danger in public places to people with guns and pay them to constantly expose themselves to the angry and deranged. There's little wonder the freedom to take a walk is perhaps more constrained than it once was. We have a more polarized population, a significantly greater population density, and a declining literacy level, with concomitant increases in violence. I suspect if you were the young police officer who got called, you would have handled it about the same way.

A

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 02:19 PM

What Ebbie said.

I'll bet none of them get beer from Obama, although it would have been a nice follow up if he'd invited them to the concert.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 02:24 PM

One blast of his pocket harmonica would have had the cops running a mile.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 02:28 PM

His mother was a street walker in Venice, her favourite perfume wac Canal No 5. She did the breast stroke every day

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: gnu
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 02:32 PM

FIANALLY! A voice of reason and true wisdom.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 02:32 PM

gnu, if you read this thread you will note that I was not the first person to bring the topic of race into this thread.

Also, the linked newspaper article about this incident introduced the topic of race by reporting that "The incident began at 5 p.m. when a resident said a man was wandering around a low-income, predominantly minority neighborhood several blocks from the oceanfront looking at houses."

After race was already introduced to this thread, I added my posts from my perspective as a Black woman. Doing so doesn't mean that I am a racist. And it doesn't mean that anyone who disagrees with what I wrote is a racist. Nor does it mean that anyone who dislikes my adding to the subject of race is a racist.

And Little Hawk, as I'm sure you know, racism is not just about how a person of one race feels about or interacts with a person of another race. The larger issue is about institutional racism.

I should also note that I don't write just for people who post comments in these threads, but also for people who may be lurking and reading these threads now and in the future. Some of those people may be interested in reading about topics that reference race from a person who is not White.

And I also should note that if there were at least one other Black person or just one other Person of Color who publicly identified himself or herself as such who posted on Mudcat as a member or as a regular guest, I would not feel the need to post as many comments about race on Mudcat threads.

I used to wonder why there were no other Black people or People of Color (who publicly acknowledges such) who were Mudcat members or regular guest posters on this forum.

I don't wonder about that anymore.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 02:37 PM

Gnu - my apologies, I did misread what you wrote. I sincerely apologize for twisting your words. My error.

LH - you are absolutely right. I am still stunned at the reaction. I thought more of the people on here. Guess I was wrong there too!

"My assumption is that the police officer in that case is White." Based upon a few lines in a wire story? That is sort of like making an assumption that Dylan did not belong in the neighborhood and he was up to something, or assuming that anyone can walk in Howard Beach without being questioned, or assuming that two people of the same sex can walk down a street without being hasseled, or that anyone with middle-eastern blood in them can fly an airplane and not be stared at.

The reality is, we ALL make assumptions. How we move on and deal with it is how we are judged. There is no way I can imagine what is like to be a person of color. The best way I can address the issue is to live my life and consider how I treat others and how I address issues.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Howard Jones
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 02:50 PM

Just to smooth any ruffled feathers, my own comment was not intended as a dig at the US, simply as an observation on how different our cultures are. This is sometimes overlooked due to our (mostly) common language.

In the US, whilst it's not obligatory, it seems that most people are accustomed to carrying ID and are not surprised or offended to be asked for it. In the UK, people are generally not accustomed to carrying ID and don't expect to be asked for it. The governments proposals to introduce compulsory ID cards have met with considerable resistance.

My driving licence is of the old style which doesn't include a photo.

The idea that going for a walk in itself constitutes suspicious behaviour is also strange to us. However I can see how in context it might appear so.

It's a good laugh that the cop didn't recognise Dylan, but then I'm not sure I would either. At least he appears not to have tried the usual celebrity "Do you realise who I am?" line.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: gnu
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 02:55 PM

Ron... I knew that. Never a worry. Thanks buddy.

Azizi... so, you read back and found out that I was correct? How nice of you to point that out. Makes me feel a whole lot better. Thanks. Yes, that is sarcastic... nasty? Not under the circumstances.

Sorry if I am a tad testy, but my Satanic nerve is causing more pain than this thread. It hurts like the devil.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 02:57 PM

"The idea that going for a walk in itself constitutes suspicious behaviour is also strange to us. However I can see how in context it might appear so."

Please do not get the image in your mind that we are all walking around with ID at the ready to produce upon request. I'm 52 years old, and the only time I've been asked for ID by a cop was when I speeding on a local street. For the most part, we all live in peace and issues like these become fodder for knee jerk reactions from people looking to pick a fight. Their issues are probably of greater import than this non-story.

It is sad to see that our community here on Mudcat is so dysfunctional.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: GUEST,GUEST, bobd- (no relation)
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 03:07 PM

A rhetorical question, not expecting an answer or argument:

Afterwards, did he return to continue his stroll?

Or had enough time been killed by now. Or he had seen enough. Or the mood had been broken and would have been impossible to regain.
I guess it's a good thing his crew back at the hotel had their ID's.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 03:09 PM

Little Hawk told us, as part of an incident that happened to him:

"He advises me that it's probably not a good idea to go for walks after dark, because people might think I was up to no good.

My own feeling (whether or not I'd say so out loud to the officer) is what "people might think", or even what "people DO think" is not a crime, and that's their problem, not mine.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 03:10 PM

Given the fact that the overwhelming majority of police officers in the United States are White, I wrote that my assumption is that the police officer in that [Bob Dylan] case is White.

Therefore my assumption is more likely to be right than wrong. Of course, a police officer's race or ethnicity (using the the United States definition of ethnicity meaning "Latino") should not matter. But sometimes it does.

**

gnu, I'm not sure what you are referring to when you wrote that I now agree that you are correct.

I'm sorry if you're not feeling well. I'm not sure what a "Satanic" nerve is. I could make a racial joke, but I'll refrain from doing so.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 03:10 PM

All because he hadn't shaved!!!

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: gnu
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 03:19 PM

No sense in bothering... once again... have fun with it... gnightgnu.

Oh, don't leave home without it, eh?

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 03:21 PM

"Therefore my assumption is more likely to be right than wrong."

So in the end it is still just an assumption based on a stereotype.

The officer was also a woman.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 03:50 PM

"issues like these become fodder for knee jerk reactions from people looking to pick a fight"

Exactly. And that is the crux of the problem with the ongoing racism debate in the USA media and that is what makes it so harmful and unproductive to the mental health and peace of the entire nation: There are too many people looking to pick a fight...and they're reacting to one another in a knee jerk fashion...and it just keeps getting worse as far as I can see.

It will not stop until the rabbits (and the mass media) stop worrying what the heck color the other rabbits are.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 04:38 PM

I can't imagine leaving the house without my drivers license.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 04:45 PM

I always take my I.D. with me too, but I can recall one or two occasions when I forgot to (in the past 10 or 15 years), and it normally happened because I had had my wallet out on the desk while I was going through some receipts and stuff, and then I went upstairs and got distracted by something else, and then I went out at some point, got in the car, and drove downtown...and discovered that I had neither my wallet nor my I.D. when I got there!

It can happen to anyone. It can also happen easily enough when you're changing clothing and you forget that the wallet is in the other pair of pants...or the other jacket...or something like that.

I also once put a wallet through an entire washer cycle because I forgot to check the jeans before they went in the washer. Pretty disgusting mess it was by the time I found it too....! But the money was very, very clean for a change.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Amos
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 04:56 PM

I al;ways suspected you trafficked in dirty money, but now I find you launder it, also. Tsk, tsk....

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 05:01 PM

Hey, come on, Crow Sister. Walking is not a crime in the United States, nor, as I understand it, did Dylan get arrested.

Kee-rist, people! I see a lot of reflexive twitching on this thread, but damned little use of brain cells!

If a person is walking down a street at a regular walking pace as if he or she were going somewhere, no one (including the police) would pay any attention. But if someone is moseying slowly through a neighborhood (rich or low income, either one), pausing and looking at houses—particularly if looking into house windows—this raises the question of who the person is and what they might be up to. That is just plain suspicious behavior. It may be perfectly innocent, but it still looks suspicious. Add to this that someone saw Dylan, and on the basis of what appeared to be his suspicious behavior, called the police. The police didn't just pounce on him.

The police ask the usual reasonable questions ("Who are you and what are you doing?") and Dylan can't identify himself. It sounds as if the whole exchange was polite. They didn't manhandle him, or whop him about the head and shoulders with their night-sticks, or take him down to the station and water-board him, they drove him back to his hotel, where he was identified. No harm done.

The amusing part is that the two young cops didn't recognize Bob Dylan, nor presumably, had even heard of him. Object lesson to Dylan:    Not everybody recognizes you or worships at your feet. Keep some ID with you, like regular people who don't normally on water.

Much ado about nothing. Glad to hear the police were doing their job. That's what the taxpayers pay them to do.

As to ID, I think the only times I've been asked for my ID is when I'm cashing a check.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 05:06 PM

". . . like regular people who don't normally walk on water."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 05:13 PM

Azizi, I do understand - and I agree with you. You, as usual, are quite clear.

The only thing I would take exception to is your repeated desire to have another self-identified 'person of color' on the Mudcat. It doesn't seem likely to me that many Black people swim in these waters, if only because 'folk' music has not traditionally been the genre of choice of most Black people. (Come to think of it - #1. how did you find this site? #2: How about you spreading the word about the Cat?))

I realize that the Cat advertises itself as being a 'folk and blues' site but the blues don't/doesn't(?) seem nearly as prominent in practice.

Hmmmm. Reading that over it comes across as being snippy. I hope not. I value you- and besides, like me, you are a Saggie!

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 05:44 PM

I'm sure you'll all be pleased that I'm not going to comment any further on my personal opinion - which is I suspect, as H Jones say's, principally down to something of a minor clash of cultural assumptions. But I thought this article interesting, due specifically to the comment at the end. It appears the neighbourhood is a predominately Latino area, and a white guy who doesn't "fit in" was the major issue. Cut and paste comment:

"Rawls says:
August 15, 2009 at 2:38 pm

The police always do this — "stop" a white guy in a "high crime area" or whatever the convenient pretext might be. If a white guy is out of place, they assume he's there to buy drugs."

I do not know if this is a correct statement, but I found it interesting in light of Azizi's prior comments. Look Out Kid, It's Something You Did: Bob Dylan Stopped By Police, Asked For I.D

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 06:24 PM

Unless the term is defined in an extremely restricted sense, it's almost certainly the case that most of the people round the world who play and listen to "folk music" are "people of colour".

It's a big world, and a lot wider than just North America, Western Europe, and Australia.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: GUEST,InOBU Lorcan Otway
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 06:32 PM

Was a time, when we believed we had the right to be left alone in America, and for a white man, that was often the case, never was for a Black American, the permanent suspect class in the US. Question we should ask is, what if it wasn't Dylan? I hope that is the question Bob is asking himself tonight.
It is the poor damned soul with no job, with no ID, with little hope, who SHOULD have the RIGHT to just be ... and yes, we do live in a police state. Do read the NY Times piece last week on the criminalisation of poverty in the US.
We have a prison population of 2.3 million here. We have 2.3 million in public housing, if you are some poor sod with no place to go, you've got a 50 50 chance of getting a window with glass or a window with bars.
Bob, ask your self, WWWD - what would Woody do...
This land is your land?
Not any more.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 06:50 PM

And that is the crux of the problem with the ongoing racism debate in the USA...There are too many people looking to pick a fight.

Sigh.

That's not the crux of the problem at all. The crux of the problem is that so many people are in denial about the existence and persistence of racism in the U.S.- both the in-your-face redneck variety, and the more subtle institutionalized, inherited variety- and its consequences.

Suggested reading:

1. Barbara J. Fields; Slavery, Race and Ideology in the United States of America1990

2. George Lipsitz: The Possessive Investment in Whiteness; How White People Benefit From
Identity Politics 2006

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Art Thieme
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 07:28 PM

Amazing! I've never seen a coin with this many sides to it. And all, on some level, are accurate and valid ways of seeing our surroundings.

I carry a state of Illinois I.D. card because I can't drive any more. I carry a HUD identification card because my Housing and Urban Development management authority says I need to. I also carry an I.D. card that is addressed TO ALL LAW ENFOCEMENT OFFICERS. It informs them that I am not drunk but have MS--and that's why I walk that way (if indeed I am able to stand up at all.)

There was a time when I'd've been indignant as all hell about the IDs. Now, though, I just don't have the strength to make waves. And guess what? It is O.K. -- and I'm glad I have a place to live that's handicapped accessible. ---- If I ever see Bob outside walking around---or Taj Mahal---or any of my musical heroes who are people of color --- I will yell out the window and tell 'em to come up for a diet Coke because the booze is gone from my life too now.

We would talk about our music since I can't play it any more. I might ask Bob to play "The Times They Are A-Changing"--because they surelly are doing that--and as we watch. Life is a gas---sometimes pure oxygen and sometimes a fart---but I will continue to breathe deeply of whatever wafts my way.

And I'll do that until I can't.

Love,

Art

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Joe_F
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 07:54 PM

When I was an undergraduate at Caltech (Pasadena, CA, mid 1950s), there was a mathematician there who walked the streets at night while ruminating on his problems. Sometimes his random walks took him to the neighboring town of San Marino, a posh municipality in which a pedestrian in the wee hours of the morning naturally excited suspicion, and he was continually harassed by the police. At length, the chief of police gave him a letter to show that said, in suitably dignified language: The bearer is a harmless nut from Caltech; no need to bother him.

A little later I heard about a student (at Reed College, Portland, OR, IIRC) who was picked up by the police for leaning against a lamppost at night, reading a book. The next night, hundreds of lampposts in the vicinity of the campus were similarly occupied.

As police states go, one could do worse than mine.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 08:00 PM

They asked me my name
And I said, "Captain Kidd"
They believed me but
They wanted to know
What exactly that I did
I said for the Pope of Eruke
I was employed
They let me go right away
They were very paranoid

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 08:02 PM

What you say is absolutely true, Greg F., but it's just not the particular aspect I was focusing on, that's all. I was focusing on the provocative role the media plays, and they are constantly looking for "racism" issues to get people all worked up about whether or not it is relevant to the circumstannces in question. And many individuals are also doing that, because they have a grudge of some sort about it. They're "playing the race card", as the expression goes, because it's a very good way of manipulating other people and really getting lots of media attention.

That's the problem I was alluding to...playing the race card in an exaggerated and provocative fashion...and there's been an epidemic of that in the last few decades.

But as you say: "the problem is that so many people are in denial about the existence and persistence of racism in the U.S.- both the in-your-face redneck variety, and the more subtle institutionalized, inherited variety- and its consequences."

Yes. That is another problem, and a very big one, but it's not the problem I was alluding to in my post. It's a different problem.

They are both very big problems at present.

*****

Now as to Bob Dylan...is it really surprising that someone found his appearance "suspicious"? No. ;-) He often looks sort of like he was "dragged through a hedge backwards", to quote an amusing expression I heard somewhere in regards to Dylan, and people usually figure that someone who looks like that looks a bit suspicious, specially if he's sort of loitering around staring at houses. On the other hand, Dylan paints. He likes painting old buildings. So he probably sometimes loiters around staring at them since it could give him ideas for his next painting. Besides, why not stare at buildings if you find them interesting? Most people are so driven with whatever they're on their way "to do" all the time that they have precious little inclination or thought to take time to look at anything around them unless it's quite unusual in some way. Creative artists are more inclined to observe things without having any specific overt reason to do so.

These are some of the risks of being a creative human being in a largely unconscious society....you seem like an oddball to many people, but you're just doing what's normal for you. ;-D

That's why that cop couldn't figure why I'd gone out for a liesurely walk to no particular objective at midnight. It just did not compute in his little mental book of "normality", because it didn't involve "doing" anything, it didn't lead anywhere, and it wasn't a popular form of recreation he could relate to.

If I'd been deer hunting, with all the right equipment...THAT he would have understood. I would then have been "doing something".

If people can't figure out what it is that you're "doing", then they get suspicious.

Taoism involves mastering "non-doing" as a way of attaining inner peace and awareness. I'd talk about it here at length if I thought it would do any good....but... Heh! Well, maybe another time...

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 08:27 PM

I can see why people in general, and the police in particular (who have a job that we, the citizens, have hired them to do), might think it prudent to investigate someone wandering aimlessly (as opposed to walking purposefully, as if to or from a bus stop, say) around residential neighborhood at night and stop the person to ask a few pertinent questions. I don't think that's indicative of a "police state," and I think it verges on paranoia to make that kind of assumption.

If, on the other hand, the police come in the middle of the night, yank you out of bed, and haul you off for interrogation for some critical remark about the government that you made to a co-worker at the office that afternoon, or for a critical letter to the editor that you have written, then I'd say that's indicative of a police state

Let's try to keep a sense of proportion here.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 09:20 PM

The Media, LH? You don't want to listen to that crap- it'll grow hair on your palms.

*

Turn off your TV baby that ain't the truth
You've got to open your eyes
In these hard times

    -Patrick Fitzsimmons

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 09:49 PM

That's true, Greg. ;-D And that's why I gave up watching TV around the late 80s. The media I am exposed to is pretty much limited to 2 newspapers (the Toronto Star and the Globe and Mail) and whatever I can find cruising around on the Internet. I live a life without TV and radio and I don't miss them at all.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 09:55 PM

Cops have stopped me and asked for ID MANY times in my life. One time I was just about a couple hundred feet from my house, walking home. They asked for ID and I refused to give it to them, because I was fed up with it. I offered they come to my house (kind of like they came to Dylan's hotel) where the people would vouch. I also narrated all my personal info -- I just refused to GIVE my ID. For that, they put me in the car and took me to the station. The incident continued to get more and more ridiculous. In the police car, I heard them say on the radio that they had apprehended an "Hispanic male" (I'm not Hispanic; I am classified as "White"). The female officer alleged that I had blown her off due to her gender. Then they said that someone had "stolen a pizza" and that I was in the area where it supposedly happened. Never mind that I was walking with all sorts of musical instruments in my hands (I had come from a rehearsal).

My point is that they'll stop anybody if they think that person looks out of place. Walking can DEFINITELY make someone look out of place, in certain places. Being alone is another. Mostly, if you look like you really don't give a crap about shopping or who's on the other end of a phone and such... that is, if you don't appear as a bourgeois consumption machine and yet you're not at home watching TV.....you're a suspect, people get anxious.

Here's a trick I learned from experience: If you walk by a cop and he/she asks "How you doin'?", it usually means that s/he is thinking you look kinda suspicious. They are testing to see what sort of response they get from you. In order to allay their fears, look them in the eye and repond cheerily, with a smile, "Great!"

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 09:56 PM

"Bob, ask your self, WWWD - what would Woody do..."

Of course this did happen to Woody, in fact there was one time when he was picked up - also in New Jersey - and it led to his "hospital" stay as he battled Huntington's.


"If people can't figure out what it is that you're "doing", then they get suspicious."

Naturally, and thankfully we are curious creatures. We are from a generation that was taught to question authority, but when we question each other we are suddenly infringing on freedom. It is amazing that our society has come to the point where simple questions lead to such allegations. Luckily, Dylan seems to be smarter than most posters here on Mudcat and appears to have understood and chalked it up to experience.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Peace
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 10:36 PM

The cops asked him who he was. He answered. They didn't know. They asked for ID that he wasn't carrying. They then went in search of the folks he was with who could vouch for him. They did.

The idea of Neighbourhood Watch is not new. Was a boon to many communities when it came in. Still goes on where I live. We are expected as members of society to contribute to its good, its safety. That is what the neighbour did. Just some guy looking around WHO WAS ALSO A STRANGER TO THE NEIGHBOURHOOD.

From 2002,

"The U.S. Department of Justice reports

797,500 children (younger than 18) were reported missing in a one-year period of time studied resulting in an average of 2,185 children being reported missing each day.
203,900 children were the victims of family abductions.
58,200 children were the victims of non-family abductions.
115 children were the victims of "stereotypical" kidnapping. (These crimes involve someone the child does not know or someone of slight acquaintance, who holds the child overnight, transports the child 50 miles or more, kills the child, demands ransom, or intends to keep the child permanently.)"


We live in a dangerous world, folks. So does Dylan, and so do the people in that neighbourhood. No offence to anyone. There are lots of things that could be made of it all, but Halibut Fritters ain't one of 'em.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 10:37 PM

Well said Peace!

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 10:41 PM

You nailed it perfectly, Gibb.

"they'll stop anybody if they think that person looks out of place. Walking can DEFINITELY make someone look out of place, in certain places. Being alone is another. Mostly, if you look like you really don't give a crap about shopping or who's on the other end of a phone and such... that is, if you don't appear as a bourgeois consumption machine and yet you're not at home watching TV.....you're a suspect, people get anxious."

Couldn't have said it better myself, buddy. Having been a musician, a rather solitary person, and a thoroughly peaceful and harmless nonconformist to what's generally going on in the mainstream of society all my life, I have a keen awareness of the attitude you allude to on the part of suspicious cops. Boy, can it ever be annoying.

But they have the power right there in their hand and you don't, so the smart thing to do is exactly what Dylan did. Answer their questions and remain calm, cooperative, and non-threatening at all times.

Your method for dealing with the "How you doin'?" question is perfect. After all, cops need reassurance too. ;-D They have a really stressful job. That's probably the main reason why some of them act like real bastards on certain occasions.

Whenever I need my faith in cops restored a bit, I watch that old Sydney Poiter movie "In the Heat of the Night". It shows both sides of the coin in an extremely effective way.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 10:49 PM

I wasn't implying, by the way, that the specific police who accosted Mr Dylan were behaving badly in any way. I was just talking generally about situations that can arise when cops are questioning people. It sounds like both they and he behaved quite sensibly.

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 10:54 PM

Luckily this had a happy ending

Subject: RE: Dylan picked up for street walking
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 10:55 PM

...although it has heated things up around here