Lake District Golden Eagles

Subject: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 02:09 PM

There is a musical connection to this thread. I am just writing up the sleeve notes for a Cumbrian music recording. I am writing up William Irwin, the 19th century Langdale fiddler. (I should mention I am talking about England here). and I have some unpublished family reminiscences about climbing for eagles' eggs to sell to tourists. Now, my question is this. Does anybody know, or can find out(I've hada look without success) when the Golden Eagle is meant to have vanished from the Lake District? because I am not fully convinced this story is true (though it's a good story).
    Gratifyingly, of course, the eagles have started to come back; I just want to know when the last one was killed in ye olde days.

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: BanjoRay
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 03:58 PM

There've always been a few eagles in the lakes since I started walking there back in the early seventies - not that I ever got to see any. What do you mean by the good old days, Greg?
Ray

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 04:48 PM

They have been around the Mardale region (one breeding pair plus offspring)for the last 20/30 years or so, but before then they had been gone for a long time. Trouble is, I cant find out how long. Sometime vaguely round 1800 plus or minus, possibly, but I'm sure the extinction of such a famous bird in England must have been noted at the time reasonably accurately. And I want to know if the story of William Irwin's son taking eagles' eggs is feasible.

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: BanjoRay
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 08:46 PM

This was on the RSPB website under Population Trends:
"In the UK the population decline began in the 18th century as a result of severe persecution by sheep farmers, which was aggravated in the 19th century by shooting by gamekeepers. A further major decline came in 1950s and 1960s when pesticides concentrated in the bodies of eagles causing widespread infertility and eggshell thinning. The golden eagle was exterminated in England and Wales by 1850, and in Ireland by 1912. Despite severe persecution, it managed to survive in small numbers in Scotland."
I imagine the last ones were in the Lakes and/or Snowdonia.
Cheers
Ray

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: greg stephens
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 03:12 AM

Thanks, Ray. That's the sort of thing I'm looking for. Bit vague though, isnt it? Lumping Wales and England together, there's no way of guessing whether N Wales or the Lakes were the last to go. And this is the critical area of dates...I havent as yet managed to work out exactly when William Irwin's son was reputed to be collecting eggs, but it's got to be somewhere in the 1840-1860 period. What it intrigues me, you see, is the possibility he might have got the last one! And I want to find out.

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: BanjoRay
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 04:22 AM

A climb called Eagle's Nest Direct was done in 1892 on the Napes on Great Gable, but I suppose the name could well have been in local legend for years before.
Cheers
Ray

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 05:18 AM

Driving up the M6 in the 80s we saw a golden eagle in the mountains around Tebay.
eric

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: greg stephens
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 05:19 AM

I wonder when they started that kind of recreational climbing...that sounds like a climbers' name, not a local name.
The relevant place for William Irwin's son's nefarious activities was Pavey Ark, according to my informant(a descendant).

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: greg stephens
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 05:21 AM

Eric: that was one of the Mardale eagles, definitely their territory. You're lucky, I've been up and down the M6 a million times in the last 30 years and never spotted one.

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: BanjoRay
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 06:00 AM

Lots of good history and superb Abraham Brothers photographs of early Lakes rock climbing here.
Ray-

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 08:56 AM

You may be interested in these webpages about the re-introduction of Golden Eagles in Ireland

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 08:16 PM

The best bet is the local Natural History Groups. They will produce an annual report and if you can find one of these (the library is a good place to look) you will see the name of the local recorder and a list of contributors who will be able to give you the local details you require. It used to to be called the Cumbrian Bird Report or The Birds of Cumbria in the days when I was more active, but it may well have changed since then.

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 08:31 PM

It is now called the Cumbria Bird Group and I see that they have recently produced an atlas of the breeding birds of the area. http://www.cumbriabirdclub.freeserve.co.uk/breeding_birds_of_cumbria1.htm

I am sure that there will be some info in this book about the past status of the region's eagle population but as information about the breeding sites of these birds in England is rather sensitive - it is best to make personal contact with the local experts for details. You may first have to try and convince them that you are not intending to continue the family tradition of robbing eagle's nests *Smiles*

Good luck and let us know the answers when you find out.

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: greg stephens
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 02:21 PM

The Shambles: thanks, that looks like just the contact I need. I've emailed the society's organiser asking for information. I'll report back if they can tell me anything.

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 10:31 AM

A couple of Scottish folk singing mountain climbing historians were speakers at an environmental conference I attended at Weber State University in Utah about three years ago. They outlined the early origins of tourist hiking and climbing in the mountains in Great Britain in general, placing the beginnings right around 1800, and increasing in popularity pretty quickly.

SRS

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: Trevor
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 11:11 AM

Don't forget - the eagle may soar high, but the weasel never gets sucked into a jet engine.........

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 07:00 AM

The poor weasel does however get 'popped'..............

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: Peterr
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 07:31 AM

BanjoRay - PM from me re early Lakeland climbs
Peter

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: greg stephens
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 11:24 AM

Well this gets very interesting. All enquiries so far suggest the eagles had stopped nesting by 1800 in the Lake District. But the Irwin family traditions imply there was at least one pair of eagles nesting in Langdale c 1850, possibly later. I shall pursue further enquiries.

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: mooman
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 11:34 AM

Dear Greg,

A possible source of information could be Dave Walker, author of "The Golden Eagle in Lakeland".

I don't have his details but he may be contactable through

This UK site on Eagles and other raptors

Peace and good luck,

moo

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: BanjoRay
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 12:26 PM

This page states that the last clutch found in the Lake District was in 1824.
Cheers
Ray

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: GUEST,Ross pa
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 12:43 PM

If eric the red spends too much time determining whether the buzzards he sees above the M6 are really eagles he might end up with the last clutch found in the district being the one from his car embedded in his ....
Enjoy watching. In the countryside birds etc - on the road other motorists.

Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles
From: greg stephens
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 06:49 PM

Buzzards and eagles: it's easy to imagine(with a bit of wishful thinking) that buzzards are eagles. But when you see your first indisputable eagle(it happened to me on Luing, W Coast of Scotland.1989, followed by plenty around the Mull area)...after that you know.