BS: Palin: She's at it again

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: kendall
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 02:07 PM

The list is too long. Thats why I added, TO name a few.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: kendall
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 02:09 PM

Carter has more brains in his jock strap than Bush has in his wooden head. His main problem was, he tried to micro manage the government and that is impossible.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Mooh
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 02:12 PM

Palin isn't the writer or orator that Pat Paulsen was. He would have at least provided some wit.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 02:43 PM

Wait a minute! Palin is talking like the propagandists of the Weimar Republic in Germany of the Thirties. Don't dismiss her. In historical context, she is the same kind of populist movement leader that determined the "Putsch" in Germany. Watch out America!
These people are "locked and loaded" albeit with B.S.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 08:48 PM

Stringsinger has it right. I hope you are starting to realize it may be fun to look down at dear Sarah, but she is a real threat.

Crux of it is:   propaganda works.   You would think all Mudcatters would have learned this after 8 years of GWB, especially the propaganda campaign leading up to the Iraq War--and then the similar campaign of the 2004 election.

If people are fearful or in distress, all you need to do is tell them who to hate and blame for their troubles.   Remember all the people who heard, for instance, Cheney and the rest of the Bush team tell them that their marriage was in danger if homosexuals were allowed to marry, and that if they voted for Kerry a dirty bomb could be exploded here in (your town).   The people who bought those arguments are still around--and they still vote.


There are some new and some old versions of the villains:   the Brown Peril (ask Rig), the government taking your health care options away, bureaucrat coming between you and your doctor.   

And anybody perceived as trying to deny the Christian background of the US--and, for instance, take "In God We Trust" off coins, "under God" from the Pledge, etc. You can argue Deism til you're blue in the face. But Sarah supporters don't do subtlety.   And the history of the US is at any rate, believe it or not, more complex than it's often pictured on Mudcat threads.


You can bet that any increases in health costs will be laid at the door of "Obamacare".   And some people will in fact lose out, specifically those who now have "Medicare Advantage".   I'd be willing to bet this includes our own Doug R.

Not only is dear Sarah in the catbird seat for the Republican nomination, but the general election in 2012 will (as usual) depend heavily on the economy.

And if for instance people have lost jobs and the new job doesn't pay anywhere near as much, they will be receptive to Sarah's list of villains.

As I've said before, we can't do much about her.   But one of the very few things we can do is to minimize her chances of ingratiating herself with more voters with her new Discovery show about Alaska--by contacting Discovery (and possibly the sponsors of said show) and trying to stifle it.

I hope many are doing this.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 09:33 PM

I suppose the question needs to be ask: She's a threat to whom?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 09:59 PM

Ah Rig, so perhaps you support her?    This would be worth knowing.

Simple question.

Yes or no?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 11:01 PM

Ron - I have some empathy for her. After the failed VP attempt, she was besieged by by a number of law suits that Alaskan law let her polital enemies bring. She couldn't afford to deffend against the suits because all of the funds available to her were in the form of campaign funds and therefore untouchable. She resigned her post as the governor of Alaska, and has since generated 12 million bucks.
                The scum-bag-pig-fuckers who were bringing the suits have since been silenced. She has her own money now with which to defend herself, so like the hyenas they proved themselves to be, her political opponents have slunk off in search of easier prey.
                This says more about the political landscape in America than it says about Sarah Palin, but it tells me that this is somebody who can deal with adveresity, and who could be depended upon in a crunch.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 12:53 AM

Oh, Rig, are you ever wrong. Far from having "slunk off" one of the last suits brought has just been adjudicated- in Palin's favor. Many of these suits, incidentally, were brought before she became the vice presidential wannabe.

Palin is not the picked-upon victim you yearn to console. She did many things awfully close to the line, and sometimes went over it. She had to pay some of the penalties the courts found her in violation of.

By the way, two of the first laws this year's legislature passed were in direct response to Palin's tenure: #1: The Governor must live in the Governor's house that is provided and maintained by the state and #2: The Governor shall not live in his or her own home and charge the state per diem for being away from the Governor's house.

But if this is how you wish to think of her, be my guest.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 07:28 AM

Actually Rig's answer is quite revealing.   He's obviously bought the propaganda of Sarah as poor persecuted--and blameless--victim.   Anybody who doesn't think clearly or is unwilling to do research is likely to do the same.

And there are lot of people by that description.

As I said:   propaganda works.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 07:57 AM

It seems to have worked on Ron Davies

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 08:03 AM

Aside from all of that Palin and I don't agree on too much politically. But:

          I think there was an article circulating a few months ago about members of Congress who are being investigated by the House ethics committee. All of them were folks of meager means. They specifically decided not to investigate Jane Harman because she has so much personal wealth that they figured her legal team could beat the rap.

          People like Jay Rockerfeller and the Kennedys don't find themselves having to do things like charge per deim for their lodging because politics is just a game to them. Their money comes from someplace else.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 08:07 AM

I buy nothing of what Palin says--and I say she is a grave danger to the Republic.

Rig--you obviously do buy the "Palin as victim" story.

Next question.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 08:36 AM

What I buy is the political landscape in America has turned into a play ground for rich people--you either have to be one, or become a pawn of one to play. I'm encouraged when somebody has the gumption to buck the system.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 08:53 AM

Rig-

So you do buy the "Palin as victim" tripe. If not, please say so clearly.

And--your batting average is sinking again-- at least since her selection as VP candidate, she has not "bucked the system" in the least.   She has benefited hugely from it--and continues to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 09:15 AM

Look at Obama, for instance. He's a cog in a wheel. His handlers knew he couldn't run for office without some personal funds because of the way campaign funds are governed today, so they had some books published that were attributed to him, hyped the books and funneled money to him that way.
         Palin, on the other hand, walked into a buzz saw. They even went after her for her clothes.
         But she's a fast learner.
         She's not really a victim, any more than any other person trying to run for public office who is not part of a machine, but she overcame the adversity and moved on.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 12:03 PM

Rig, I said 'be my guest' in believing what you wish- but I do wish you would stay a little closer to solid truth. Shading the truth, i.e. "They even went after her for her clothes." is misleading, to say the least. Unless that is what you are after.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 12:23 PM

Rig said, in part:

His handlers . . . had some books published that were attributed to him, hyped the books and funneled money to him that way.

Where and what is the evidence that Obama didn't write his own books, that they were merely "attributed to" him? Where is the evidence that "his handlers" (whatever that means) were behind the production and/or publication of the books? Where is the evidence that the books were merely a political front to funnel basically unearned funds to him?

Bare charges and insinuations, based only on what you personally would like to believe or would like others to accept, don't constitute evidence to substantiate your position.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 12:34 PM

'"They even went after her for her clothes." is misleading, to say the least'

          Why is that misleading? There was a huge flap over the clothes that were purchased for Sarah Palin during the campaign. I don't recall anything like that coming up about any other candidate, ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 12:38 PM

Answer Uncle DaveO's question first, OK?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 12:51 PM

The books were sold, he got the money, he got elected, and he's serving in office now. What additional evidence would one need?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 12:57 PM

oh. Good to know that we don't need evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 01:06 PM

We have the evidence. He shows up on television every once in a while. People say he's the president. I'm willing to believe them.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 01:10 PM

"Bare charges and insinuations, based only on what you personally would like to believe or would like others to accept, don't constitute evidence to substantiate your position."

Unless they are against Palin: THEN they are perfectly acceptable, at least here.



To demand a different level of evidence for those you like vs those you dislike is the very definition of prejudice,bias and bigotry.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Amos
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 02:40 PM

Obama wrote his own books. Anyone who has paid any attention has seen this covered in the exhaustive media about him. Rig is just being snide and underhanded. Palin--a different kettle of fish. She may have written her own, or not, but anyone who has read some or all of the two authors would have to be totally tone deaf not to see the stark differences in their sense, perceptiveness, and humanity.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 02:41 PM

Obama declared $5.5 million income for 2009, and paid 1.8 million in taxes.
Huffington Post 04-15-2010. They show his return in detail.

Deduct his $1.4 million from the Nobel Prize, and that leaves $4.1 million from his books and investments. Not bad!

Some writers are convinced that Bill Ayers wrote Obama's "Dreams....." some evidence in an article in the Washington Post, Short Stack, Book World editors, 2009-07.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 02:44 PM

I'm pretty much convinced, most recent political figures have ghost writers write their books.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 04:00 PM

,,,,, "Most" ,,,,

That is a pure appeal to stereotyping and pre-judgment.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 04:02 PM

Palin's Platoon
only lefties may click here

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 04:18 PM

I'm with Rig here!....As a leftie, I dont agree with some of Sarah's ideas, but I do agree with her on others.

I dont let my political opinions blind me to the truth....and there is a good bit of truth in "right wing" opinion, if the people holding those opinions are sincere.

One large truth, is that Sarah has "guts a plenty" ande shares with most righties a true belief in what she stands for....she knows her vision is correct and make4s no apologies for holding her views.

This is in direct contrast to most of the left, who are serial hypocrits... they like to talk about SOCIALISM, but it's the very last thing on earth that they want to live under.

Sarah Palin....A woman from I suppose, a pretty ordinary background, who has produced and raised four children, keeps herself in great shape, has pushed herself on to become governor of the State of Alaska,while raising a real family.

By force of personality and charisma, she has put herself into a position where a run for President of the United States of America is a distinct possibility.....This from an ordinary woman in a male dominated political class.

It makes me laugh to see some of movers and shakers of Mudcat(irony)describe this phenomenon as ....
Stupid!
Boorish!
Quitter!
Airhead!
Know Nuthin'/ Suspect nuthin'!
Greedy!
Egoist!
Delusional!
Can't hold a job!
Flange head!
Unable to read or write!

I just wish we had a woman like Mrs Palin to inspire some of the apathetic people in the UK.....We are afflicted by a political class very much like yours.
A class which spawned Blair, Brown, Clegg, Milliband, Cameron, Osbourne.....the list is endless.....weasel clones to a man!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: kendall
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 07:47 PM

Ake, I am more of a socialist than anything, so you can include me out. (As Yogi Berra once said)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 08:33 PM

Once in a long while, a little socialism rears its head, as in Wisconsin years ago, but soon the voters regain their sanity and whack it down.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 08:50 PM

"This is in direct contrast to most of the left, who are serial hypocrits... they like to talk about SOCIALISM, but it's the very last thing on earth that they want to live under."

This can only be said by someone who does not realise/accept from His own recorded teachings, that Jesus was a total Socialist.
(All that love/look after your neighbour nonsense!)

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 09:00 PM

Q--

"Some writers are convinced..."?

Oh, c'mon.

I have a lot of respect for your research above the line on Mudcat.    But why is your standard for political threads so much lower than your standard for music threads?

How would you like "some writers are convinced that Greensleeves was originally a Japanese tune"   Source:   Daily Mail.?

Citing the Washington Post is not enough.   Let's have a direct quote with exact source if you truly believe there is any evidence that Mr. Ayers wrote "Dreams" (should obviously be underlined, since it's a book, but I still can't figure that part out on this computer).

Otherwise your offhand remark sounds remarkably like a smear.

I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you never have liked Obama--you didn't try tremendously hard to hide your views on him in the runup to the 2008 election.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 01:33 AM

"they like to talk about SOCIALISM"
BULLSHIT
Fox News and their ilk love to talk about, and make accusations of, socialism.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 02:57 AM

FS....As an atheist, I have more faith in real Christianity than I have in "modern" socialism.

In the UK the media is full of champagne socialists....harping on about public services and cant wait to send their kids to private schools.....they all use private healthcare.

Socialism and Capitalism are incompatible.

The media socialists and the chattering classes(mudcatters) all want the status quo.....Socialism is a great idea for everyone else!

If you want real change, first you've got to be prepared to clear the ground......Slash and Burn!

Kendall....I believe you are as you say, but supporting the one party Capitalist system or even "liberal democracy" will never bring about the sort of society you envisage.
The real obstruction to change is in being sidetracked into policies...manufactured by those whole believe in the old divide and rule and their idiot assistants on the "liberal" loony fringe.

Was Castro a liberal?.....well thats the closest thing to socialism that you are goin' to see for a while.
I support the Cuban system but without Fidel as the strongman.....and the inspiration, would it have survived?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: kendall
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 07:45 AM

Socialism seems to work in Sweden. They have the highest standard of living on earth. A combination of Socialism and capitalism works in the UK.

"I don't want to see my party elected because of fear, bigotry and smear." (Margaret Chase Smith, republican from Maine during the McArthy hearings."

We could use more republicans like her.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: kendall
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 09:05 AM

And Abe Lincoln, and Teddy Roosevelt.....

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 11:30 AM

The Republican Party left the planet with Ronald Reagan.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 05:52 PM

Ayers has been mentioned in the press as perhaps the ghost writer of "Dreams..." No positive information was implied.

Getting back to Palin, future speaking engagements:
April 22- Houston TX (Barbara Bush Literacy Foundation!)
April 23- Eugene OR, Republican fund raiser
April 29- Austin TX, Majella Society
May 1- Independence MO, PAL (Preserving American Liberty)
May 2- Wichita KS, Bethel Life School fundraiser
May 13- Benton Harbor, MI, Economic Club of SW MI
May 14- Charlotte NC, NRA National Convention.
etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 06:39 PM

First of all, Ake ol' buddy... I'm not sure where you are getting your information but most liberals that I know never discuss "socialism" in the context of their own persoanl politics... Ya' see, the word has been completely demonized her in the states to the point where folks on the left just don't use that term to any degree...

As for Sarah Palin, Ake... Exactly what position is it that she has put forward that you agree with??? I mean, I've been waiting for a long time for her to articulate one real position but with the exception of that tricky PR slogane "Drill, Baby, Drill" she doesn't do positions... Oh yeah, she's for "freedom" and for "taiking our country back" but the just emot5ional empty rhetoric... Anyone can say those kinds of things without articulting one posotion on any real issue...

BTW, "We don't like taxes" is not an issue, Ake, ol' boy... Or if one thinks it is then one has a responsibility to offer a a plan that deals with less revenue coming into the government... No plan, no position...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 09:03 PM

"perhaps the ghost writer....".   

1)   Which "media"--with exact names and sources.   As I said, "Washington Post" Book World doesn't cut it. A lot more specifics needed.

2)   As it is, still sounds like a classic smear.    You'll have to contact Rig to see if he has a franchise available in Smears R Us.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 09:05 PM

BTW, folks... Ms. Sarah is reported to have raked in a coool $12M in the last year...

How you you spell "prostitute"???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 09:06 PM

not "media", but rather "in the press"

Same questions.

Same diagnosis.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 09:14 PM

Bobert--

That's a bit harsh--she's no more a prostitute than any other politician.   She's just exploiting the system.   Does undercut her "victim" status a bit.

And makes you wonder why anybody would be whining about how she was mistreated re: clothes, as we had just recently in the thread.

Also supports what I said earlier--with no money worries, she's likely to turn to other goals to satisfy ambition.

She is dangerous, as an accomplished demagogue-- and it's time for Mudcatters to wake up to that.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 09:28 PM

Also, Bobert, you better hope none of the womenz read what you wrote.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 09:29 PM

Beware of the political figure who is all image and no substance.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 10:18 PM

We've already experienced Ronald Reagan, Don, but some folks are too young to remember.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: beeliner
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 11:17 PM

Ake, I am more of a socialist than anything, so you can include me out. (As Yogi Berra once said)

I think that was Sam Goldwyn, who also said (re TV), "People are staying away from the movies in droves!".

I lived in a socialist country for almost ten years, the Federal Republic of Germany, and it was nice, for the first time in my life, to be able to say that I was a socialist without stopping conversation dead.

Millions of American live in wretched poverty, sometimes for generations, unable to dig their way out. That is shameful.

There's no poverty in Germany, not as we know it here.

The president is nothing remotely like a socialist. Would that he were. He is, however, certainly an enormous improvement over that which preceeded him.

The Germans think so too.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 12:26 AM

Sorry, neither the Bundesrepublik nor Sweden are socialist.

Both are mixed socialist and capitalist.

To have socialist aspects you need financing from somewhere. Usually it's the tax base--which means taxing firms as well as individuals.